Women DO have at least some capacity for reason

[STR8UP]

I've been chewing this over for awhile now. It seems that although we tend to think about women being primarily emotionally driven, they do have the capacity to override their emotions when it comes to hitting their goals on their biological timelines.

The thing that got me thinking about this is the chick that I was seeing for awhile last year. She recently announced that she is getting married to the guy she started seeing while she was seeing me. That's all good and fine, you say, she LOST her attraction for me when this guy came along and lit her fire.

Yea, sometimes this is how it goes down.

But it has been my personal experience that women tend to "move on" from a relationship with me not so much because they lose attraction, but because some other guy comes along (or they feel he will come along) that is ready, willing, and able to provide them with a marriage and children. And they know I'm not gonna be that guy.

I've seen pictures of this guy she is marrying. Now I'm no Adonis or anything, but this guy is pretty hefty, and IMO doesn't have much on me overall looks wise. I don't really know what he does for a living, but I doubt he can compete with me in the "provider" category.

That's all circumstantial, I know. But if you saw the way this chick still looks at me, you would know that she DIDN'T move on from me because she wasn't attracted to me anymore. One of the last times I saw her she wasn't engaged, but we were in a club with a group of friends and she couldn't keep her paws off of me, rubbing my arms and hands and stuff. To top it off we have been in a group of people more than once and the topic of sex comes up, and she won't shut up about how I gave her the best mind blowing sex she's ever had.

So all of this coupled with tidbits of info I get from her best friend lead me to believe that her actions are a direct result of her rationally calculating the chances that I am willing to give her what she is seeking at this point in her life (a family) and realizing that she's going to have to settle for door #2 if she is going to get what she wants.

This sort of ties in with the thread I posted awhile back about how women I date tend to marry the next schmuck who stumbles into the picture.

So what are your thoughts? Are women actually using LOGIC in cases like this, or is it still an emotional response?

 

[RedPill]

The emotion of fear/lonliness/missing the boat with being able to attract a first-rate provider (and making babies) lights a fire under their ass and makes them think.

You know, kind of like if your residence burned to the ground, you would get serious about finding a new place to live.

 

[joekerr31]

str8up, i think your problem is pretty simple.

i think when you first meet a woman you spend too much time increasing her interest level and getting her hot and horny.

you become the guy they have "fun" with.

but ultimately what everyoen is looking for who is looking to settle down is something they can trust.

so developing the attraction is great. but you gotta be able to bridge from that in to trust and interpersonal growth. you have to transition from being the 'fun' guy in to being the 'responsible' guy (aka committed guy).

even the biggest wh*res on this planet want kids - even if they say they don't. for a woman having kids is like a being the MVP quarterback and winning the superbowl would be like for a man. its the pinnacle expression of their reason for being.

for a woman its to reproduce. for a man its to become wholly self sufficient and the very best at what he does. (i know im talking generalities here mind you).

personally one of the HUGE trade offs many men make when becoming DJs is that they focus wholly on interest level and remaining detached emotionally. which is good for getting a woman hot and bothered - but really bad for an LTR.

its a very tricky balance to strike for a good LTR. while you have to start to care about her beyond just the sex you also can't let her take advantage of that caring (and a lot of them do).

i've found this paradigm is found in many areas of life, not just relationships. to truly succeed in life you have to be able to give 100% of yourself to something BUT should circumstances turn against you, you need to be prepared to cut yourself off from that thing and move on to the next.

it is NOT easy for most people to do. its very easy for me to do - but only because over hte years i've learned that the best way to live is to follow your passion and guide yoru passion by reason - which means you don't stick around in a situation that has gone bad and shows now signs of getting better.

BUT you first have to give it your all. you have to aim for the moon, but when you find yourself veering off and heading straight in to the sun, you have to turn around and come back home. there will be another day and another launch.

so while i think you've given 100% of yourself to the DJness, i dont think you are giving 100% of yourself to your relationships.

you talk a lot about not being able to find a quality woman. but i wonder how much of that is that you truly can't, or that you aren't ready for a quality LTR yet.

dont know which is the case, jsut throwing thoughts out there.

 

[joekerr31]

oh as for women being able to think rationally / reasonably.

its very very hard for them. their thought processes are what i'd call pseudo reason. they are able to process and analyze things - the input processing is fine.

where they have issues is the output - ie. how they react to events and things.

women aren't assertive. they don't tackle issues head on. they manipulate situations to address issues.

always remember, women are like that wimpy kid who gets picked on. but then imagine that the wimpy kid had something everyone wanted nad how he'd use it to manipulate everyone. thats what women do (they know you want the p*ssy).

so when a woman throws a fit over the toilet seat being up, its really her way of throwing a fit about you not respecting her in the relationship as a whole (she's just to chicken sh*t to bring that up most of the time).

anyway, women are very good at absorbing information, the conclusions they come to and the actions they take with that information is another story though.

 

[STR8UP]

so while i think you've given 100% of yourself to the DJness, i dont think you are giving 100% of yourself to your relationships.

you talk a lot about not being able to find a quality woman. but i wonder how much of that is that you truly can't, or that you aren't ready for a quality LTR yet.

dont know which is the case, jsut throwing thoughts out there.

I'm not giving 100% of myself to the relationship. That's why they end up looking for greener pastures.

My last LTR was a hot, hot, HOT 21 yr old (when I met her 4 years ago) who would have taken a bullet for me. Great relationship for the most part. But even at that tender young age she kept asking "Where do you see this going?" like it was imperative that she establish whether or not the two of us were going to live happily ever after. Being a woman she couldn't live happily in the moment. that clock was already ticking...

So at the first sign of us having some relationship problems she goes out and latches onto an intimacy surrogate (which I consider cheating, regardless of whether or not they had sex).

So this chick is definitely what I would have considered "quality" if "quality" actually exists. But when it came right down to it she was willing to jeopardize what we had to get something I wasn't giving her at the time, evidently.

So is that ME not being ready? Or is that the fact that you NEVER now what a woman is capable of, and you always have to be conscious of that clock biting you in the ass?

 

[penkitten]

str8up, i think you are called the "get them ready guy"
they meet you and date for awhile and when it comes down to it, you might not be ready to get married and settle down, but they decide they would rather not have any more flings because you were fun enough. so the very next good one that comes along, they land for keeps.
you get them ready to settle down. you make them yearn to be in love.
you let them know it is perfectly ok to be good decent women.
you make them dream of weddings.
and if thats what it is... then you make decent women out of them because they give up there lifetime careers of living the "sex in the city" single lives.


and if thats not it, hey, the thought was good.

 

[STR8UP]

oh as for women being able to think rationally / reasonably.

its very very hard for them. their thought processes are what i'd call pseudo reason. they are able to process and analyze things - the input processing is fine.

Not sure I can concur 100% on this one. It just so happens that my biz partner and I are good friends with the girl I mentioned in this posts best friend. My biz partner is pretty clued up as to how women work and how people in general work, and when we are out with this chick's best friend and she tries to lay down some "chick logic", he throws REAL logic at her and when he does, she gets this look on her face liek she KNOWS he is right, but her female brain won't allow her to assimilate what he is saying. It's like if she actually processes the logic correctly, she will melt down into a puddle of wax or something.

Funny, cause when he gets into it with her he always uses the above mentioned chick I dated to illustrate his point. He will tell her "OHHHH...so it's OKAY for "M" to start seeing another guy while she is with STR8UP, but when a GUY does it to you or another girl you know he's a low down dirty ba$tard?!?! How does THAT work?". That's when she gets that look on her face that's a cross between "Wow, he might have something here" and "That's not right! Chicks CAN'T be in the wrong!" Funny sh!t. I just sit back and watch this chick get pummeled with logic and reason, not knowing what to do or how to react. It's quite entertaining.

 

[joekerr31]

str8up, true, i see your view.

what will happen with you is that a woman will come along (hopefully) who gets you. and when that happens you'll get her also.

thats when you'll have a truly trusting relationship and everything will fall in to place.

until a woman comes along who can call you on your game you'll keep playing your game. and i dont mean that as a bad thing in the least. we are all playing 'roles' - and we think they are the authentic us, but they aren't.

its usually only once you've met a truly realiable honest trust worthy woman that you then feel you can be 100% yourself without worrying about consequences.

but like i've said before, its in the hands of fate as to when that woman comes along.

 

[RedPill]

What you have here is a classic Schedules of Mating dillema.

All you're describing is methods women have used for centuries to ensure that the best male's genes are selected and secured with the best male provisioning she's capable of attracting. Rarely do the two exist in the same male... [full post]

STR8UP, I believe this is the dynamic that's in play when you encounter these situations. From your threads, I get the impression you do well at satisfying their short-term interests (nice condo, killer parties, DJ attitude, experienced in carnal acts, vibrant social life, competition from other females), and try as they might, chicks soon discover you are not a viable candidate for their long-term needs because they discover you have no desire to commit/provide for them. So they go find their AFC tool husband, but wish her husband was more like you. Too bad for her she wasn't able to attract better.

 

[joekerr31]

Not sure I can concur 100% on this one. It just so happens that my biz partner and I are good friends with the girl I mentioned in this posts best friend. My biz partner is pretty clued up as to how women work and how people in general work, and when we are out with this chick's best friend and she tries to lay down some "chick logic", he throws REAL logic at her and when he does, she gets this look on her face liek she KNOWS he is right, but her female brain won't allow her to assimilate what he is saying. It's like if she actually processes the logic correctly, she will melt down into a puddle of wax or something.

Funny, cause when he gets into it with her he always uses the above mentioned chick I dated to illustrate his point. He will tell her "OHHHH...so it's OKAY for "M" to start seeing another guy while she is with STR8UP, but when a GUY does it to you or another girl you know he's a low down dirty ba$tard?!?! How does THAT work?". That's when she gets that look on her face that's a cross between "Wow, he might have something here" and "That's not right! Chicks CAN'T be in the wrong!" Funny sh!t. I just sit back and watch this chick get pummeled with logic and reason, not knowing what to do or how to react. It's quite entertaining.

dude, you just proved what i said.

the input is fine. its the output where they are screwed.

when your buddy inputs the info she is able to see it for what it is - reason. she gets it.

but then when she goes to output it (ie. respond) it all gets messed up, because she's mixing it with a bunch of crazy views that women have on life.

 

[jophil28]

Women and 'reason' - You used those two words in the SAME sentence. What are you thinking ? Women have about ZERO capacity for rational thought. That is why GOD invented MEN - to do the THINKING !!

Read Rollo T ,"Power of Emotion."

Have you ever tried to "reason" with a woman in times of drama or conflict? Did you ever get the unmistakeable message that she was being driven by a force that was outside your ability to reach ? That was EMOTION run riot. And that is the fuel in their tanks that propels them forward (or into a ditch).

Being a DJ does NOT guarantee that women will stick around ( read Joe Kerr's comments above) Being a DJ is about creating IL so that you and she can get nasty.. However this game does not feed women's long term needs emotionally. Giving her "fun" and hot sex will never hold a woman for ever. She has other emotional requirements .. Trust, exclusivity, safety and security, bonding and attachment and so on.
YOUR women moved on to find THESE things. And sometimes women will go 'down scale' to get them from a guy who has few other social options. In other words, they find a chump because he is SAFE and able to be controlled.

And you are left scratching your head asking your self "Why HIM."

 

[jophil28]

Women and 'reason' - You used those two words in the SAME sentence. What are you thinking ? Women have about ZERO capacity for rational thought. That is why GOD invented MEN - to do the THINKING !!

Read Rollo T ,"Power of Emotion."

Have you ever tried to "reason" with a woman in times of drama or conflict? Did you ever get the unmistakeable message that she was being driven by a force that was outside your ability to reach ? That was EMOTION run riot. And that is the fuel in their tanks that propels them forward (or into a ditch).

Being a DJ does NOT guarantee that women will stick around ( read Joe Kerr's comments above) Being a DJ is about creating IL so that you and she can get nasty.. However this game does not feed women's long term needs emotionally. Giving her "fun" and hot sex will never hold a woman for ever. She has other emotional requirements .. Trust, exclusivity, safety and security, bonding and attachment and so on.
YOUR women moved on to find THESE things. And sometimes women will go 'down scale' to get them from a guy who has few other social options. In other words, they find a chump because he is SAFE and able to be controlled.

And you are left scratching your head asking yourself "Huh ! Why HIM."

 

[edger]

Knowing how women operate, it's scary how they're out there among us in the working world when they can't make logical, reasonable decisions. But what I find the scariest and most disturbing of all, is how they can become counselors, psychiatrists, and psychologists.

 

[WestCoaster]

OK, strange theory here ... some women are intimidated by DJ's.

OK, she dumped you for pork chop? She might be thinking you're too good for her, and I'm serious. Not every women has this outstanding self-esteem and thinks she can marry up. Some do, many don't.

I think DJism works, but not always, especially with lack of esteem gals. I dealt with the same thing last year, gal decided between me and a much less desireable schmuck (IMO) ... took the schmuck. Why? Because I don't have many issues to be worked out; she wants someone with issues who can provide her drama.

I may be way off here, but I think you may need to shoot for women with higher self-esteem and like being DJed.

DJing isn't your problem; the women you're dating are.

 

[MatureDJ]

"Where do you see this going"?

That is an essential "bullet to the head" question that every woman who is serious is going is going to ask. And if her man is not prepared to answer affirmatively, she will leave - and that is a very good thing.

STR8UP, you were asked that question, and you didn't answer, "I see us being married." What you were saying is that from what you could see, you were not willing to settle down. OK, that may be a good answer from someone who feels that he is not at the point in life, but if she is at point, then she has every right to lose interest - even if she is still attracted to you (and you may be overplaying just how attracted she was to you.) Some dude came along and gave her the answer that she was looking for.

But I think that if you had thought that she was really a quality woman, you would have answered that you would have answered properly. I have had some women get to this point with me, but quite frankly, I didn't see them treating me consistently properly enough to answer that I was ready to marry. Had they been better women that treated me better, I would have answered that I was ready to marry. And when I meet the proper woman and she asks me this, I will answer in this way.

 

[MatureDJ]

str8up, i think you are called the "get them ready guy"
they meet you and date for awhile and when it comes down to it, you might not be ready to get married and settle down, but they decide they would rather not have any more flings because you were fun enough. so the very next good one that comes along, they land for keeps.
you get them ready to settle down. you make them yearn to be in love.
you let them know it is perfectly ok to be good decent women.
you make them dream of weddings.
and if thats what it is... then you make decent women out of them because they give up there lifetime careers of living the "sex in the city" single lives.

and if thats not it, hey, the thought was good.

My goodness, this is probably the best gem of wisdom from any of our female members.

(Contrast this with the craap that WyldCougar always posts! )

 

[MatureDJ]

WomTrust, exclusivity, safety and security, bonding and attachment and so on. YOUR women moved on to find THESE things. And sometimes women will go 'down scale' to get them from a guy who has few other social options. In other words, they find a chump because he is SAFE and able to be controlled.

Why would such a man be a "chump"? If she were treating him properly, he wouldn't be a chump. He would be a winner.

 

[STR8UP]

str8up, i think you are called the "get them ready guy"

So when I do find a decent chick I want to settle down with I should be good to go, I suppose.

 

[STR8UP]

but like i've said before, its in the hands of fate as to when that woman comes along.

True, but I can't help but think that you can help things along by playing the numbers game. Never been one to want to bother with doing that (and right now I wouldn't even have time) but if I ever get to the point where I feel like I want to settle down I'm thinking I might have to resort to sifting through a pile of them.

 

[STR8UP]

Too bad for her she wasn't able to attract better.

Who knows??? Maybe the guy is a DJ? I just can't see it from my limited POV.