Winter BC Week 6

[Al Moh.]

Haven't heard from Impact


Sir Shinra is the only one left. But if even one guy gets all the way through the BC, it's been a success! Keep it up.




Now, it's your responsibility to complete every week on time. You have to:
- Do the reading
- Complete the exercises
- Write a Report at the end of the week
You may:
- Listen to the music (recommended to get into the mood )
- Report any time during the week in this thread
- Ask questions in this thread
- Give tips in this thread or a thread of the other BC-Groups
If you learn anything new that you think is valuable to others, you are encouraged to post this inside the Tips-Section.

In your Report at the end of the week please state if you were successful completing the week or not. If yes, I am going to move your name to the next week. If no you can either stop or give yourself more time. However, I am not going to take care of you anymore in terms of moving you name further. You have to organise yourself then but can still use this thread.

Each week starts on thursday morning and ends on wednesday evening. Use your local time.

That's about it as general information goes.

The link to the BC one more time:

http://www.jbspencer.com/djb/Downloads/djbc.pdf
or word Version:
http://www.jbspencer.com/djb/Downloads/djbc.doc

There you will find each weeks reading material, music picks and exercises. I am just going to repeat the exercises in short form in this threads.



1) Call up a girl that you had a date with and arrange a second one.
2) Try out new strategies to increase IL
3) Keep your number pool at ten or more
4) Do a kiss close if you didn't do one last week


Good luck!

 

[Sir Shinra]

Okay, I've got a second date arranged for tomorrow at five. We're gonna watch a movie (yeah, I know movie dates are inferior to action dates, but she is a film student and would probably like movies better anyway)

I also have a first date arranged with an HB8 I met a couple weeks ago. It took a lot of effort to get this date, as the woman told me directly that she was wary of me being a foreigner, so I had to arrange a "phone date" first to build her trust. Unfortunately, the only timeslot I have for this date is right before the first date I mentioned above...

Add that to the fact that it's 4:30 AM, and I'm still a good bit drunk... hope I can pull this off.


Here's a report on what I've done to wrap up Week 5.

I've been making at least two approaches per day, so I have a ****ton of numbers that I won't even bother counting. It's seriously that easy in Korea. My success rate is probably 90% or more.

I have been on two dates since my update last week.


Date 3: Went on a date with an HB7 (since upgraded to HB8) who approached ME at the train station. Her English was really good because she spent one year in Canada. The day I met her, I was feeling really adventurous, so when she mentioned that she went to the gym for fun, I challenged her to arm wrestling. I won.

The date went ... okay. I didn't have a plan, and due to work circumstances, etc, wasn't really dressed for the occassion. She was looking quite hot though, all makeuped and wearing a bright red jacket. We met at the mall and looked for a coffee shop, which took longer than needed due to both our unfamiliarity with the area. We didn't have much to say at first, and I kinda felt her attraction level (for me) dropping, but after a bit of coffee conversation it picked up, and after a lot of teasing I convinced her to go bowling with me.

Unfortunately I had overestimated my navigation ability and couldn't find the bowling place I was looking for. We walked around for awhile, and instead went into one of those "beer and chicken" joints that are abundant in Korea. She agreed to just 1 drink, but, as I learned (again) tonight, you can never drink just one. We had three... and she was the one who kept ordering. After around 2 hours, and 3 beers, on opposite sides of the table, I went over to her side, got a little closer to her, and attempted a kiss close. Failure. After a brief pause, she withdrew, "I'm not gonna kiss you." Seven minutes later, I was kissing her... very softly. There wasn't much passion, little tongue, and the kiss was quite short, but it was quite relaxing. She breaks it off. "I feel wierd doing this. It's like I'm kissing my little brother!" Ouch!

(Background info. She is a couple years older than me. Our "argument" is over who is the "senior," which means they have to pay for the meal. By the end of the night, she paid for the meal.

After another 10 minutes, I kiss her again for a little longer. Then I decide it's time to go home, as I have to work tomorrow and so does she. We both take taxis in different directions. Before splitting up, however, I tease her with a would-be kiss, and withdraw after a brief pause. She didn't seem fazed by it, but the next day I get a call from her while I'm at work. She wanted to "make sure I got home all right." I said "aww that's so sweet," in a mocking tone of voice, and she said "all right have a good day." Maybe I pissed her off. Oh well, I'll call her in a few days.

Date 4: I met the shoe-selling girl (HB8, since downgraded to HB7 as she wasn't wearing makeup during the date) whom I asked to guide me to the electronics mall. This one didn't go well at all. The ****ty part is, it would have gone really well if I hadn't have gotten SICK that day. I thought about calling and cancelling the date because I had a cold, but it was less than an hour before the date and I decided to go with it.

We were both late. Very late. But she was later. We met about 40 minutes behind schedule. Regardless, she seemed very enthused to see me, and nearly gave me a hug when she saw me at the train station. From the look in her eyes, it looked like I could have possibly made it into a kiss, but we stopped just short of a hug. Kind of awkward.

I didn't have a plan for this one either, so we walked around the park until we found something to do. It started raining, so we went into the coffee shop. She was going to buy for me, but I forced my money over hers. We talked a bit over coffee. Her English isn't that good, so we spent most of our time doing language exchange (I hope she wasn't using me to that end). The conversation was unstimulating, but the eye contact was. UNfortunately, my cold started breaking out again, and I got a runny nose from hell! I made 4 trips to the bathroom and tried to pass it off as if I wasn't sick, but she could tell when she saw me reach for my tissue. By this point, I wasn't thinking about the date or conversation at all. I just wanted to hide my cold. It didn't work. I knew the date was ruined.

During our coffee time, she asks me an interesting question... "are you married?" Apparently being married at 23 is normal for a Korean male... and she's only 19. Way to make me feel old. I point out the ring on her finger, but she tells me it was cheap two dollar gift to herself. I confiscate it to be funny, and she tells me to keep it (probably just because she was germophobic and didn't want it back after she noticed my cold).

After the coffee date, we walk around a bookstore, all teh while I'm unsuccessfully trying to conceal my cold, but when she sees a drip of snot drop from my nose onto my jacket, I know my chances are done. A few minutes later, she tells me she has to go home. I was JUST about to tell her that I had to go home, but she beat me to the punch. Now I lose face because I hesitated. I knew the date was over, but I had to wait for HER to end it?? What the ****? I should know better than this.

The really sad part of this date is, the girl was REALLY enthusiastic to be with me... if I wasn't sick, I might have been able to kiss close...
I will call her again in a few days.

 

[AAAgent]

nice fr's. just wanted to let you know i'm about 60% decided on heading to korea to teach after i graduate in june. i'll probably study for my lsats while im there for the whole year. i plan on doing a 1 year contract and possibly head to japan for another year to teach and then china to work at a friends company for another year. hopefully i'll have the lsats aced by then or atleast started then come back and take the test/law school.

 

[Sir Shinra]

Field report Week 6

Well, I've been in Week 6 for two days and I've already achieved the primary objective (going on a second date with a kiss close)

I went on two dates today. One was a first (coffee) date with an HB7.5, the other was a second (movie) date with an HB6.5.

Date 1: Met HB7.5 at the train station. Whilst setting up the date a few days earlier, we had a hard time deciding where to meet. I just picked the station at the midpoint and decided to make it up as we went along. I tried to research something to do but didn't have time to find anything worthwhile. As a result, we met having no idea what to do other than find a coffee shop. We couldn't find any around the area I picked, so had to take a bus to another area of town, and eventually decided to disembark at the first coffee shop we see. We come to an empty shop and she wants to change venues, but I decided it was comfortable and had a great view, so we stayed. Somehow we ended up ordering lunch instead of coffee however.

We sit and talk for a good two hours, a pretty full conversation but there were some pauses in between (not awkward pauses, or at least I didn't feel that they were awkward). I try to bust on her a bit, calling her a party girl when I know she isn't, but she just shrugged it off, instead of laughing and getting defensive like I'm used to. After we finish lunch, there's 30 minutes left with nothing to do. She has no suggestions so I take the lead (I crick my arm and she takes it ) and pick a random sidewalk and we walk down it. She asks what I find so amusing about some random (and dirty) street, and I try to sound all philosophical by telling her to just enjoy the environment we're in or whatever. I tried to be playful, but I think I came off to her as a bit childish.

Eventually we give up on trying to fill the last 15 minutes. Our stations were in opposite directions, but since I had extra time I accompanied her to her stop (only one away) and turned around after dropping her off. Hope that wasn't AFC.

Overall, I think it was an average date. She is very pretty and smiles a lot, not to mention she speaks fluent Japanese. It took a lot time to convince her to meet me to begin with. I think I have another shot, so I will call her in a few days, this time with a real date in mind.

Date 2: Met up with HB6.5 that I went out with a month ago. The meeting started off great. I opened her with a hug, which I then smoothly turned into an arm crick. From that point on, she insisted on holding onto my arm for the rest of the night . There was also quite a bit of hand-holding too, right from the get-go. From there however, the date went downhill. We decided earlier to see a movie, but when we get to the multiplex all the English films are sold out. We hijack a computer from a nearby coffee shop and decide on a smaller theater on the other side of town. We get to the theater 2 hours before showtime so we walk around the area for awhile to pass the time. By the way, she is shy and hates crowds. Obviously, I'm the opposite type. Fortunately for me, the area we're in is one of the most heavily packed shopping areas in Seoul.

We decide to eat at some random restaurant. I think this was a bad move. We sat next to each other at the bar, but barely said anything during the hour and a half we were there (it really took that long to eat). One cool thing though, is that the restaurant we were in has walls covered in post-it notes from previous patrons. I decide to write a note in English/Japanese and have her translate the Korean part. I then have her pin the note to the highest point on the wall. Of course, this involved me getting behind her and lifting her up from the waist so she can reach the top! I think this quickly broke the monotony of sitting down for so long, and was good excuse for kino.

During the movie, I remembered why most people on this forum discourage movie dates. I thought I could get away with it since it's a second date, but I felt awkward attempting any intereaction with her during the film. About 20 minutes into the film, I reached for her hand, and she doesn't respond. She just passively lets me hold it. I remove hand 2 minutes or so later. about 50 minutes in, I put my hand on her knee. No response. I move after 30 seconds. I could tell she was actually interested in the movie, and I'm pretty sure she's not the type to make out in a theater so I just said **** it and focused on the movie. It was a British film and left me kind of tense, because it ended on a low note. We talk about the movie on the walk back to the train station and, of course, I make public my feelings about the movie. She, of course, makes sure that she has my arm during the walk back.

On the train ride home we are sitting next to each other, silent. I prompt her for her Ipod, and we share the headset while listening to relaxing... something. I put my arm around her for a minute or so, then remove it. Her station comes up before mine, so she tells me she has to go and stands up. Here's where it gets wierd. She starts saying stuff like "That was fun. Bye. Take care of yourself in Korea." At this time I'm thinking, 'what does that mean? Sounds like she doesn't wanna see me again.' I almost said something about it, but decided against it. I stand up with her and walk her to the door. Now here we are at a subway station, she's just standing there smiling and waving at me and I'm smiling at her while waiting for the doors to close.

I had to make a move. Right before the doors close, I jump off the train and get right up into her face, saying "I forgot something." She gives me a confused look as I pull her in. No turning back now. I could see her hesitating, and we start off with a hug, but I quickly turn it into a kiss. She (eventually) complies. The kiss itself was kinda awkward, as I'm trying to decide the proper time to end the kiss (before she does). There were odd pauses and stuff. The kiss ends, and a couple seconds later she comes in again to kiss me. Then she takes my hand and leads me to the other end of the station (which is more secluded). I assume it was to resume our makeout session, but by the time we get there, there was an audience. I try to initiate another kiss, but she refuses, saying "I don't like those guys over there." I try to lead her to out of the guys' field of vision, but she says "it's too late." as the train approaches. I get on the train, and she waves bye to me through the window as she walks away. I just stand and smirk.

Some field notes:

I usually make two approaches a day.

My number close rate is probably around 85%.
Disclaimer: This is Korea. It is well-known that it is extremely easy to get numbers in from Korean girls.

I haven't had any women flake on me since the HB8.5 who was the subject of the 'Why did she flake?' thread I posted during Week 2 (and no, I haven't seen her since).

If I'm going on a date, I like to warm up by approaching a woman on the train. Since I'm usually in a good mood, I have a good success rate. I got one number this morning (7.0) out of two attempts.

I'm noticing a slight increase in the number of attractive females looking at me, and they also tend to hold eye contact a little longer.

My status with friends and coworkers hasn't changed. I don't feel as if they are percieving that I have improved myself at all. In fact, I was pretty sure I was on some hot coworkers' radars when I first arrived. Now they seem to have lost interest. No, I haven't made any passes at any of them. I monitor myself for fear that I may accidentally be flirty (or be perceived as flirty) with them. I deliberately avoid prolonged eye contact with female coworkers. I think this makes things more awkward, as they probably percieve me as weak for this. Better being percieved as weak than a pervert, I think. Although the result of both is creepiness...

Each time I look in the mirror, I see someone more masculine-looking than the week before. I know this has a lot to do with the intense martial arts training I've been doing (I've lost a good bit of weight the past couple months... and I was already skinny before!), but I'd like to think the boot camp has helped my self-image as well.

 

[rushing dude 123]

dam dude really nice, u got lot of momentum and i don't see u falling man, u have certanlly upped ur game and at the end u will b better 100 fold. Get that butt to week 7 dude. btw try to finish the dates quick...i know how expensive it can be, if lets just say u need to keep interests up for new chicks on a date 3 next week, while ur taking time with numbers could lead to a lot of dates, seeing u will have to keep few back ups just in case as well.

 

[Sir Shinra]

Today's not so good. It's a Korean holiday now so people should be with their families. I had no plans so I just hopped on a bus going in some random direction and somehow ended up in one of the party neighborhoods. I just can't seem to make any approaches here. I feel kinda creepy wandering around in this party atmosphere by myself.

I'm taking a little break and then I will get back out there. I also plan to chat up the receptionist (I'm at a net cafe now) on my way out. It's a start I guess.

 

[Sir Shinra]

Wow, I am in the middle of probably my worst night since starting the boot camp. Remember that HB8.5 that I was so proud that she asked my number? Well, I got another big IOI two nights before I date when she happened to drunk dial me at 2:30 in the morning.

My hair was getting a bit long, so I went and got myself a premium haircut to prepare for the date, and of course made some approaches earlier that day, just to warm up. I figured it was in the bag.

Guess what?

***** stood me up. I have never been stood up in my life. Flaked on plenty yes, but never just blatantly left to freeze in the ****ing cold for 20 minutes, after busting my balls to alter my schedule just to fit her in (I am very busy, believe it or not).

Now I just went through my numbers bank, as I've been falling behind on my phone game. Every single call I made either didn't remember who I was, or suddenly "forgot" how to speak English. I went through ten numbers. Five didn't answer. Five hung up on me. I didn't even get to greet the woman, much less even think to ask her on a date.

I feel like I'm cursed today. I should have just cut my losses and stopped making calls after the first girl hung up on me. It's like the negative momentum just carried forward through each phone call attempt.

I have more numbers of course, but the HB level and Interest level for these newer numbers don't compare to the ones that so disrespectully shot me down tonight. They don't have much potential at all.

What's more, the last two girls I went on dates with (the only two I have kiss closed so far, or have gotten to the second date with) have stopped returning my calls. I have only had one of my first dates answer the phone, and she told me she is busy. The others have disappeared.

I feel like I'm back at square one.

Week 7 will be interesting.

(On a more positive note, I did make my first head-on direct approach a couple days ago (as in "OMG you are so BEAUTIFUL I just had to talk to you!") I failed to get the number of course, but I felt on top of the world just for trying (at least the woman talked to me and was nice about it). I hesitated for a bit, my muscles were frozen and my heart was pounding, but I activated the three-second rule and it felt great... an amazing rush! Afterwards, I was so excited, I did some curl-ups, right there in the middle of the train!) I got two numbers after that... and I haven't called them yet. Definitely not calling them tonight, the way things are going now.)

 

[Al Moh.]

Yeah, I know what you are talking about, some days everything goes wrong, on the other hand there are days when everything goes right.

Don't worry too much about it, take a small break and get back into it when your back on top of your game again.

 

[Sir Shinra]

I'm still here, and I'm still going to week 7.

Not much has happened since my last update. This last week as been kinda downbeat for me, especially with my return to work and everything. Here's what I've been doing:

Still making two to four approaches a day. I have gotten comfortable approaching on the train, and the rush is starting to disappear. This may not be a good thing however, as my success rate has gone down significantly in the past coulple weeks! Only about one in five of the women I approach will actually talk to me. This reveals an important weak point in my game which I will list shortly...

Been on three dates since my kiss close at the train station.

Date Three:

Second date with an HB7.5 I kiss closed on the first date (we were drinking). This date is important not because of the girl, but because the behaviors I exhibit are representational of my strengths and weaknesses... This date (and others like it) is the reason I have plateaued. I will make a thread about this soon...
(By the way, I didn't kiss her again, nor have I communicated with her in the past 10 days)

Date Four:

First date with a 6.5... we ate a brief dinner/snack and the conversation went pretty well, although kinda tame/nonsexual. I did make sure to tease her as much as possible though. I suggested we bounce to the bowlign alley since both of us had to go in that direction anyway, and she complied. We had a good time bowling, teasing each other, etc. I got in a good bit of kino, but she returned the kino only sparingly and neither of us wanted to hold eye contact (I didn't want her to think I was staring at her, and probably her likewise) I guided her to the train station (she refused my arm crick) and said bye. Havent' contacted her since. This was a week ago.

Date Five:

Last night I met an HB7 that I didn't establish much rapport with due to her low English level and limited time available, but her eye contact was so deep that I knew interest was there. And there was (she accidentally overheard me setting up a date with another girl while she thought I was setting up a date with her! (technical error) Most girls wouldn't have the patience to let me remind them of who I was!

I let her research some ideas for us, since she is more familiar with the area than me. She narrows it down to three:
1)a walk in the park
2)a jazz bar
3)ice skating

I tried to decide together with her (I should have just been more decisive and pick one) and we narrowed it down to the bar and the skating. She suggested we get some dinner and I agreed since I was hungry. She finishes way before me so I want to hurry lest bore her by watching me eat for 15 minutes.

We head to the jazz bar and enjoy good music. I'm putting in a LOT of kino, punches to the arm, hand on shoulder, touched her face a few times, subtly touching my leg to hers, etc. She didn't react at first, but after awhile I notice her start pulling away, and by the time the date was over, she pretty much avoided eye contact with me together (keep in mind that EC is what had this girl, and me, interested in the first place!). After leaving the bar, she wants to go home but I convince her to go for a brief walk. I offer the arm crick but she refuses, but I insist ("it's a European custom!") and she caves. We come to a park with a few people, and I play around, jumping on ledges and stuff while she stands there. Couldn't convince her to do anything fun. I tease her for her 'shyness' and pretend to walk away. She follows me. This spot might have been good for a kiss close but I didn't feel that I built up anything, as the eye contact was winding down. Also, I pre-emptively decided not to kiss on the first date, because one of the articles in the boot camp PDF said to wait until the second or third date. Is this a good idea?

She wants to go home but I convince her to go back to the bar and catch the last act. I go and talk to the band briefly while she waits. We head home. I offer the arm crick and she does that 'sigh' and rolleyes thing while smiling, and takes it. She discards as soon as we get to the station though.

We talk on the train until we get to her stop. She says bye and faces the door and waits for it to open. I'm standing behind her. Door opens, she leaves. Doesn't look back.

Way too much detail for one date eh? It wasn't even that significant... it does show that I have a problem with escalating.... or is the first date too early to do that.



Also, is it possible to do too much kino?? Or is it too much of the same type of kino? Like I said, I pretty much stuck to the same areas... her forearm and shoulders. Didn't go anywhere near her leg or hands. Should I have? Like I said, she didn't react at first, but after awhile she started retreating. What happened?


Some things I need to work on my approaches

1) I rely too heavily on situational approaches. I always try to point out something funny about my target. I haven't done any direct approaches since the last thread. They never result in anything.

2) I don't know how to keep the conversation giong when I detect a ***** shield. As soon as the woman signals disinterest, I always run out of things to say and shrink away. I need to learn how to sarge on and break the ***** shield... unless her disinterest is genuine and I waste my time.
By the way... the neg hit isn't working. Am I applying it too early?

3) Whenever I have prolonged EC with a woman (longer than one second) I often approach... unfortunately I always hesitate a litle before doing so. Whenever I do approach, the woman is completely cold... even colder than my average cold approach! They won't even talk to me. Why would she look at me and smile... or even say hi... if she is not interested?

4) I always have to remind myself to deepen my voice while talking. If I don't, I sound too beta/approval-seeking/un-masculine.

5) Very important. I need to stop women in their path. I notice every time I 'follow' them somewhere (talking while walking), she turns cold pretty quick. I know why this happens (I need to lead them and demonstrate control/value). I just need to do it more.

6) I rely too much on the security of the train, where I can sit next to them and be relaxed (my sitting approaches have a MUCH better success rate than standing approaches... women just dont' wanna give up their seat!). Since she's stuck on the train, it would take a lot of effort for her to move somewhere else, and make it obvious to me that she's doing it to avoid me and not because she has somewhere to go.


Things I need to work on for my dates:

Need to prepare more ahead of time. Problem is I don't know how to find things to do in Seoul!

My kino doesn't work as well as it should. They usually don't react, and don't return the kino nearly as often as I am giving it. Is this normal??

Escalation, escalation, escalation!! I don't know how to do it! The C&F (it is my meat and potatoes) keeps them laughing, but that's it!

Closing! The C&F keeps can only take me so far! Problem is, there never seems to be a launching point to go to the kiss, much less trying to bring her back to my place without setting off any alarm bells of 'he's gonna try to have sex with me.' As such, I have yet to try to bring a girl to my place.


That's it. All I need is some dynamite to blow through this plateau. Bring on Week 7!

 

[Al Moh.]

I'll post week 7 tomorrow.

As for you questions:

The first thing that popped up in my head while reading was BALANCE!

You write about C+F and Neg-Hits, where are you occasional compliments and rapport?

In general, keep a balance between rapport/connection and kino. Connection brakes down barrieres, enabling you to go further with your kino.

That's btw why I love to seduce female friends. The connection is there already, all I'm doing is escalating, escalating, escalating.

Can't do that with a girl you don't know that well though.

 

[Sir Shinra]

I usually refrain from giving compliments unless I really feel it is deserved. I'm kind of hard on myself (as you've probably noticed from my posts) and I don't praise myself or take compliments easily. I hold myself to high standards, and expect such of others as well. It's just my nature. Of course, this is probably why most of my friends refer to me as an '*******.' In a loving way of course!

I do actually talk about stuff with my dates of course. It's usually situational stuff, but there's also the obligatory 'what do you do, what's your major?' etc.