Windows Vista - safe to install yet?

[Mr. Wolf]

Well ok playa hater.. You don't even mind me calling you that.. Great....

So, Microsoft development tools pretty much suck butt.. Just like you.. Instead, I'm using something else.. Just because I like it more.. That said, I wouldn't have problem at all to use Microsoft development tools.. Hate on, playa hater.. Hate on.. It is your constitutional right!!!! Playa hater..

 

[bigjohnson]

For anything that's gonna go pro on Win32 you really should just use what everyone else uses - Visual Studio, unless you're developing some toy apps that are gonna be used by 37 people or something. Web dev isn't really Windows development, so if that's what you're talking about then you're more clueless than I thought.

Also, web applications are for people who can't write in C.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Yo, everyone.. Bigjohnson here won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Damn guys, he won... Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

 

[bigjohnson]

Sarcasm, the last refuge of the weak.

If you're sure you're right then talk about your toolchain and explain why it's "better" than the established Microsoft C/C++ toolset. In any case, if you want a free OS the Ubuntu folks make a really nice distro that is *legal* to use for free.

On a side note, I'm not sure the forum owners should be happy with you soliciting advice on illegal copyright infringement on their site.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

You won you won!!! No need to get academical.. Hahaha. You're the winner.

 

[slitherjef]

You know what Microsoft *really* needs to do? Go back and rewrite the code. ALL OF IT. From the ground up. Instead of patch after patch after patch. Of course it would take a lot of time and be expensive.

 

[bigjohnson]

How would that fix anything?

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Oh by the way.. I have windows 2000 source code.. They can't write.. Take it from an expert.. The code is total sh!t, and I don't mean it super fly.. Just sh!t..

 

[slitherjef]

How did you get the source code? I wanna see!

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Look for 02.13.04-MICROSOFT.WINDOWS.2000.AND.NT4.SOURCE.CODE-SCENELEADER.rar if you know where to look.

 

[bigjohnson]

How did you get the source code? I wanna see!

For a LEGAL way to see the quality of their work you can get a peek at the Windows Mobile source code just by asking. In all honesty though software engineering is just like most other lines of work, a lot of people who get into it are here for the money or other reasons that tend to not equate to making them enthusiast/experts. In other words, most are average, no shock if you think about it.

For instance there are people out there who criticize others work then turn around and steal it. Sick really. Every place I've ever been with very few exceptions have a lot of OK coders, a few top notch experts and a few who really suck.

Office, NT4 and 2000 source was stolen at the time when 2000 was pretty new, but in all fairness to Microsoft this was before Bill G. made everyone take 3-4 months downtime to learn some specific secure coding skillz.

For instance:

int logon(const char *user, const char *pw)
{
    char buffer[1024];
    
    if (UserFound(user) == 0)
    {
        sprintf(buffer, "Invalid user %s logon attempt\n", user); 
        log(buffer);
    }

    /*    do whatever else    */

}

It's that easy to create a security vulnerability if you're not aware of the issues involved. Bonus points for any supercoders who can see and explain the issue.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

For a LEGAL way to see the quality of their work you can get a peek at the Windows Mobile source code just by asking. In all honesty though software engineering is just like most other lines of work, a lot of people who get into it are here for the money or other reasons that tend to not equate to making them enthusiast/experts. In other words, most are average, no shock if you think about it.

For instance there are people out there who criticize others work then turn around and steal it. Sick really. Every place I've ever been with very few exceptions have a lot of OK coders, a few top notch experts and a few who really suck.

Office, NT4 and 2000 source was stolen at the time when 2000 was pretty new, but in all fairness to Microsoft this was before Bill G. made everyone take 3-4 months downtime to learn some specific secure coding skillz.

For instance:

int logon(const char *user, const char *pw)
{
    char buffer[1024];
    
    if (UserFound(user) == 0)
    {
        sprintf(buffer, "Invalid user %s logon attempt\n", user); 
        log(buffer);
    }

    /*    do whatever else    */

}

It's that easy to create a security vulnerability if you're not aware of the issues involved. Bonus points for any supercoders who can see and explain the issue.

WOW!!!! That's right there is a code of the century. Dude.. You found it yourself?! It's awesome!



Back down to earth. As you read 2k source code you realize that 90% of it came from Windows 3.11. A fact that resonates every time something breaks in today's Windows operating systems.

Another reason to switch to Vista. They supposedly have rewritten most of the code. Which is better than just some of the code.

 

[bigjohnson]

The really sad thing about this is that I understand the code (mostly) lol! Trying to find the error....

The code is not real production code obviously, but it is an example of a buffer overflow that would allow an unauthorized user to execute any code they wished at the privilege level the vulnerable code was running at. If this was in fact a logon service running at admin, a remote user could exploit this to gain complete control of a system.

The lines inside the *if* are to log failed login attempts tot he system log.

The comment just indicates that there should be more inside this function but that is omitted since the omitted parts are not the point of the exercise.



On the subject of Microsoft and rewritten code:

I find it hilarious and charmingly childlike to assume a company screwed up so horribly that their first attempts can't be fixed and yet they could be trusted to get it all correct on a rewrite of this enormity. The fact is the software doesn't wear out and a good engineer can reuse and improve the work of others. Crap engineers insist on complete rewrites and then proceed to write something that is just as bad in a different way.

The fact is that a lot of code is mediocre and that's not likely to change. Also a lot of the issues with Windows are API design issues and there's no good way to just insta-fix the Win32 API without requiring almost every bit of code that runs on Win32 to be redone. That's just not a pretty idea.

Win 2K source is based on NT, which was a rewrite done by a skunkworks style team led by the guy who created VMS.

 

[Potbelly]

Vista sucks on a crappy system.

And by crappy I mean, a decent system.

You need a SUPERB system to run vista and take advantage of it. What I just said is doubly true for vista ultimate and the business version

By the wa,y I have a mac with Leopard...which is tight as all hell.

 

[bigjohnson]

I guess you should define your terms. All the systems I've been around for Vista have been fine, some can't run Aero but that's OK.

WOW!!!! That's right there is a code of the century. Dude.. You found it yourself?! It's awesome!

Aside from your obvious issues with simple English, I don't see you explaining the vulnerability and how to eliminate it. Go ahead and Google around for it if you have to, there's plenty of info. Try "buffer overflow" for starters. Enjoy. Even the poorest of engineers should be able to research this and sort it out, so let's see what you've got. It's been a couple days already so the best you could hope for is a "below average" but I suspect that's the story of your life.

 

[Desdinova]

What I find amazing is the system requirements to run Vista.

My PC came installed with Vista Home Basic which I wiped in favor of Ubuntu Linux. Vista ran slow as fvck with the 512M RAM that came with the PC. After installing Ubuntu, it runs blazingly fast, and I get the "Aero Glass" effect with Compiz Fusion. The best part is I'm using the onboard video, and it runs fine. If I wanted all this for Vista, I'd need a couple more gigs of ram, a new video card that supports pixel shading and a new copy of Vista which includes the Aero Interface. That's easily another $500-$1000.

 

[bigjohnson]

All very true. I also like Ubuntu simply because they had the good sense to base it on Debian so you get the incredible apt-get tool.


As for Vista, it runs fine on my 4gb dual core NVIDEA 8700m based notebook.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Linux is good, but the problem with linux is that it's not straight forward as Windows.. Meaning, you need to do things with Linux to make it work for you..

Windows is like Plug n Play, if there is no problems.. But none the less, it's Plug n Play.. A grandma can enjoy Windows, while Linux requires some geek skill. You both should be proud to be geek enough to be able to use it..

I simply can't use it.. I don't find it useful in my everyday life.. Much less in developing occasional sh!t for windows, or even for the web, java, or flash.. For me Linux is sh!t that geeks use to look geeky, I like windows.. But none the less, I would run Linux for server, or on laptop for hacking wireless networks. Both are fun!

Yea, I like XP too.. Before XP I liked 2000.. Though I want to go to Vista because it's the next gen..

In this world, the latest, the smartest, the coolest, survive.. Geeks, and other none conformists die a slow death.. Thus I need Vista in order to progress and evolve everything I do.. It's the next gen.. I hope it's safe to use sometime in the near future..

 

[bigjohnson]

Geeks, and other none conformists die a slow death.

I sort of can't see Linus Torvalds, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs hitting the breadlines any day now. I bet their careers are brighter than fencing stolen goods on eBay.

Seriously, Ubuntu makes it really easy, most Win32 apps even run on it now.

 

[Desdinova]

the problem with linux is that it's not straight forward as Windows.. Meaning, you need to do things with Linux to make it work for you..

I've spent far more hours getting peoples' Windows computers (including mine) getting it to do what I want than getting Linux to do what I want.

Getting a "An 0E Exception Error Has Occurred at GFLJKE53906540" is far less useful than having something not work at all. If I need to troubleshoot a Linux problem, it's usually "get xxx to work in linux" and I can usually find my answers quickly.

When I go to Microsoft's site to get an answer, I get a bunch of vague answers. Even worse is using that POS Windows Help crap which usually ends in me being twice as frustrated as before.

As Microsoft continues to sugar-coat their OS to make it "easier to use", they're making it more difficult to troubleshoot and fix when it doesn't work.

Geeks, and other none conformists die a slow death.

Then perhaps you should leave this website. The world is mostly made up of AFCs and feminine men. According to your logic, being a Don Juan is a complete waste of time and energy.