Why you should never take a woman's words at face value

[ketostix]

See....if you truly ARE a woman, iqqi, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Denial isn't just a river in Eqypt. Recently in the DJ chat Penkitten and LovelyLady VEHEMENTLY stated the same thing. I couldn't disagree more.

Again, this thread wasn't intended to reopen that debate, although now i can see that it's going to.

Okay, let me backtrack a little. If a woman is ONLY out for money, yes, she is a golddigger. But where do we draw the line? What if she is "primarily" looking out for a good provider, and doesn't care as much about looks or any other traits? Is she still a golddigger?

But none of that matters, because the point is that women will not acknowledge that money is a factor, yet they WILL acknowledge that they seek the TRAITS that a man who has the capability to earn money will possess. Basically, they are so good at lying to themselves that they have a lot of men convinced of this as well!

I think I see what you're implying Str8up. Even when women are in the wrong they're cognizant of it, but it's their nature to still never admit it and to "confuse" the issue. Ex: Women say and think, "Making money the number 1 factor for going for a guy is being a gold digger. Being a gold digger is wrong!" (woman thinks or maybe it's even subconcious, she can't be "wrong"). So it becomes: "I went for him because xyz, blah blah blah." Voila she's magically not a good digger, according to her. And the gullible man believes every word she said at face value.

 

[joekerr31]

man sees two women. one is a hb9. other is an hb1. man chooses hb9.

woman sees two men. Guy A is average across the board. Guy B is above average across the board. woman chooses Guy B.

men and women are exactly the same. the only difference is that women are smarter than men and go after more than just looks. now the truth is that they aren't smarter because of actually brain capacity. they are smarter because they naturally have to - when they are 9 months preggo they want a man who can provide and protect them. the richer, stronger, smarter the man the more they perceive his ability to protect her.

now here is whats interesting. men USE to only judge a woman based on her looks. his goal was basically to marry the hottest chic he could find.

but now so many men have gotten burned that they are starting to judge women based on more than just their looks (at least when it comes to marriage).

long story short though, men and women behave EXACTLY the same. just like i reject a woman who is ugly, so women reject men who are broke.

its the way life works, like it or not.

when you peel back all our social conventions you will find life is a pretty cuthroat thing. heck, look at your dinner plate and you'll see that life is survival of the fittest. why should the mating game be any different?

 

[wayword]

True, women just don't think that far.

Women like a guy who dresses well, has connections, has status, has class, has power, is socially-proofed, has a decent ride & pad, is well-experienced, etc. etc.

Well guess what, all that generally takes MONEY.


Also, as you said, women like to pretend they are moral superiors...so are loathe to admit any behavior that is unideal. Which yes, makes the vast majority of them deceitful hypocrites.

 

[Interceptor]

they are smarter because they naturally have to - when they are 9 months preggo they want a man who can provide and protect them. the richer, stronger, smarter the man the more they perceive his ability to protect her.

qfe

 

[STR8UP]

men and women are exactly the same. the only difference is that women are smarter than men and go after more than just looks. now the truth is that they aren't smarter because of actually brain capacity. they are smarter because they naturally have to - when they are 9 months preggo they want a man who can provide and protect them. the richer, stronger, smarter the man the more they perceive his ability to protect her.

Which is the gist of the theory that states that women tend to gravitate toward a man with resources.

But again, that wasn't my point. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on women being less than honest about such matters.

 

[joekerr31]

Also, as you said, women like to pretend they are moral superiors...so are loathe to admit any behavior that is unideal. Which yes, makes the vast majority of them deceitful hypocrites.

most humans are hypocrites. heck, you got married senators soliciting gay sex in washrooms, athletes telling kids 'don't do drugs' and then taking steroids, presidents saying they did not have sexual relations or they have chemical weapons, etc.

so being a hypocrite is common.

now, when we look at women, we raise them to be hypocritical. we make them wear make up, pushup bras, etc. women are accutely aware that their 'natural' state is not good enough or even wanted.

they learn at a very young age to put on a show. that life is 'dress up'. its NOT about truth and character, but rather about appearances.

anyway, hypocritical superficial mentally dysfunctional people are the norm in this world! most people are plugged in to the matrix.

finding people whose words match their actions, who have depth and character and who are functional is the exception.

 

[STR8UP]

Well, since you asked...

http://laddertheory.com/ratingsystem.htm

Awesome link, can't believe I have never stumbled across it.

 

[joekerr31]

Which is the gist of the theory that states that women tend to gravitate toward a man with resources.

But again, that wasn't my point. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on women being less than honest about such matters.

the only reason women lie about money and what not mattering is because the guys with money expect them to.

the guys with money want the world to believe the hot chic is with him because he's a stud. women know this is part of his psyche and that if they were to say 'actually, a big part of the reason im with him is his money' that he'd dump their ass.

if they admitted this the guys would get wise and say... 'HOLD ON a second here. you mean you dont really love me? well f*ck this. why the f*ck should i settle for one hot chic when i could use my money to be banging 100s of them?"

so women have to lie about money and stuff mattering. they need the guys with money to think they are with them because they are a stud. when in reality, if the guy was driving a taxi cab she wouldn't give him a second look.

but you know, guys are the same way. guys will sit there and talk about how much they love their wife blah blah blah. and then if she gains 40 pounds they start wondering how much a divorce will cost them.

anyway, if the men with money acknowledged publicly that their woman was with them because they had money, the women would then be more honest about it also. but its just not acceptable to admit it.

its kind of like masturbation - everyone does it, but no one talks about it.

women dont see it as them being hypocritical, they simply see that its not socially acceptable to admit these kind of things publicly. because when they do they get called sl*ts and gold diggers, etc.

but we all know the score

 

[ketostix]

Hmm, I think men are pretty honest that they want a woman primarily for their looks. So women freely wear push up bras and make up, stay slim, or they don't do it. Now men can't generally say to a woman I like you just because of your looks. But men don't go around shouting it from the rooftops that they don't choose women primarily on looks. But women on the other hand do tell the whole world and will never admit they choose mean based on his means or looks. Women are more responsible for prepetuating dishonesty than men are. Women's words can't be taken at face value.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Social Matching Theory

Social Matching Theory, in essence, is defined as follows; All things being equal, an individual will tend to be attracted to, and are more likely to pair off with, another individual who is of the same or like degree of physical attractiveness as themself.

Just as an aside, this is a well recognized social psychology theory, not one of my own formulation.

This is a naturally occuring commonality among many cultures and societies. The trick to this theory is that 'All Things' are rarely equal. However, my point to this isn't to naively assume that attraction and sexual pairing happen in a vacuum - far from it. It is to illustrate an underlying psycho-biological principle that operates beneath our consciousness that prompts other psychological schemas from an intimately personal (micro) level to the social psychology of an entire (macro) culture.

Now check this picture out:
How to spot a rich guy

We laugh our asses off at this joke, but why is it funny? It is funny because human beings, like many other animals have the innate ability to make cognitive comparissons on an autonomous, subconscious level. The reason it's humorous, is because we see an imbalance in a system and make deductive conclusions with regard to other people's individual conditions. This is the basis of the Social Matching Theory.

As I've posted in several threads with regard to "Why Women Cheat" or why men are so compelled toward sex with attractive women, the root of this desire is a psycho-evolutionarily developed opportunisim that is founded on our ability to make and assess these natural comparissons in order to better facilitate our own survival and the survival of our offspring. It has served our species so well over the millennia that this natural comparisson making capacity has become an autonomous and subconscious aspect of our experiencing our environment. We understand that eating the large apple is preferable, from a survial standpoint, than eating the small one. We have a tendency to want what our biologies compel us towards and develop idealizations based on what we think would best satisfy these ends.

I understand that attraction and intersexual relations do not happen in a vacumm and there are many (generally predictable) variables that influence this, but Social Matching Theory isn't about the process of attraction or pairing so much as the motivations for selection.

I'm often asked whether physical appearance, prowess, bearing, etc. influence attraction, and I can speak from my own experience saying yes, it absolutely does. A fat guy is simply not going to attract a Fitness America competitor without some very unique circumstances influencing this attraction. Neither would I support this attraction being based in a qualitative genuine physical desire for the fat male. It is an imbalance in a system.

All things being equal; socio-economic, intellectual, emotional levels etc. you will have a tendency to attract and be attracted to people of similar physical presence as yourself. This is the root of the psychological schema many men and women apply when they follow the "He/She's out of my leauge" mentality. They are manifesting this subconscious understanding that the prospects of another person of a more idealized physical presence being attracted to them or pairing with them would be an unlikely match. They self-perceive this imbalance and thus limit themselves to opportunities that have a better likelihood of success in gratifying their need - in this case sex.

Look at the 'Rich Guy' picture again. The woman in this imbalance we are regarding as a 'Golddigger'. This too is inspired by an innate understanding of the Social Matching Theory. Why else would an (arguably) attractive woman in comparatively good shape, wearing a thong, be with a morbidly obese male if he didn't posess some other redeeming variable to inspire the match? We see the picture and laugh, and women make the internalized rationalization that she's not genuinely interested in the guy, but is 'in love' with his means. Superficial? Perhaps, but it still illustrates this comparative instinct we have, particularly when we know nothing about individual circumstance.

Finally, I should add that the Social Matching Theory is also one of the primary foundations upon which AFCism and ONEitis is based. This natural fear of rejection associated with both of these schema stem from a subconscious understanding of this theory. ONEitis in particular can be traced back to this self-perception of imbalance leading to the "I'll never find a better woman/man than this person" scarcity mentality in so much as it represents a limitation of opporuntism. In other words, it becomes preferable for a person to stay and accomodate an otherwise intolerable relationship if that person has internalized the understanding that their relationship represents an imbalance in this Social Matching. Abuse endured from the more idealized mate becomes preferable to rejection from anonymous, less idealized sources of intimacy.

 

[STR8UP]

the only reason women lie about money and what not mattering is because the guys with money expect them to.......

women dont see it as them being hypocritical, they simply see that its not socially acceptable to admit these kind of things publicly. because when they do they get called sl*ts and gold diggers, etc.

but we all know the score

You have two explanations here, but I'm going to lean toward the latter.

Like I said, I think it's the second worst thing you can label a woman as is a "golddigger".

The way I see it this is all about appearances. Women don't want to be seen as superficial. They feel (as we all do) the need to fit into society whic frowns upon superficiality.

ALSO......they do this to feel better about THEMSELVES. They are thinking to themselves "I'm such a great person because I'm not a shallow golddigger". when in fact they are ALL that way. And that isn't a jab at women. I know and accept the truth. It's NATURE.

They also tend to believe in love as a magical concept. If we expose attraction for what it is it takes a bit of the magic out of it, don't you think?

 

[STR8UP]

But men don't go around shouting it from the rooftops that they don't choose women primarily on looks. But women on the other hand do tell the whole world and will never admit they choose mean based on his means or looks. Women are more responsible for prepetuating dishonesty than men are. Women's words can't be taken at face value.

The more I look into this the more evident it becomes that women are the deceptive sex.

This isn't that they have malicious intent, it is simply that this is their means for survival. Man is physically strong. Women must compensate by being crafty.

Both sexes are capable of dishonesty. Women however, are less likely to be able to recognize and acknowledge this dishonesty. They also have a better coping mechanism that allows them to justify bad behavior.

Wow, every time I dig too deep into the female psyche I get a more and more depressing picture of what I am dealing with. But hey, it is what it is. All you can do is learn to live with it, and possibly use this knowledge to YOUR advantage in the mating game.

 

[joekerr31]

This isn't that they have malicious intent, it is simply that this is their means for survival. Man is physically strong. Women must compensate by being crafty.

Wow, every time I dig too deep into the female psyche I get a more and more depressing picture of what I am dealing with.

i was saying over and over a few months ago that the weaker of any two organisms will instinctively become the more manipulative of the two - because they have to be!

heck, part of why man evolved is because we are so damn weak. as animals we are pretty f*cking pathetic physically. heck a 50 pound cheetah could kill a 200 pound man without even trying! but because we are so weak it forced our brains to evolve - we developed spears, hunting nets, mastered fire, etc. (im over simplifying evolution, but you get the point)

but the good news with women is that they can't do anything to you that you don't allow them to do. so sure, they are quite evolved in terms of manipulation and using emotion to get what they want - but it ONLY works because men allow it to.

ALL of women's power stems from p*ssy power. men allow themselves to be deceived and manipulated because they want the p*ssy.

 

[edger]

You're nailing it JonWon..GREAT posts so far, you've gotta be my twin or something. Finally someone who is on my level who I can relate to. There's not many of those here. PROPS to you my man for being rich in WISDOM and being a good guy.

Men dont go out of there way to impress women with statements of wealth, chumps do that

EXACTLY. I always say this.

 

[edger]

I see the debate here has now shifted from "women want a man who can provide for her" TO "it's not enough if a man can "provide" for her, he HAS to be a wealthy man with a mansion and 4 SUV's on top of that".

 

[edger]

Women have been bred to worship materialism.

YEP. I see it with my scumbag uncle the way he drills this into his daughters head. "Go find a wealthy guy" he tells her. Poor kid is being corrupted. And when I call him out on it, he doesn't know what to say. The guy's a chump anyway if you couldn't guess.

Average modern day western women do want the power and status, there nothing but shallow sheep conforming to any Cosmo' type mag they can find.

Any woman who is like this IS a shallow SHEEP who is conforming. Pathetic.

I don’t even like women who obsess about famous people or rich people or try to model themselves on fake edited models in magazines, but most women do it, they come across like there intelligent, i just look on them like animals being led, like children with no independent thought, just regurgitation what they read and the 'sister hood think mentality'.

Unintelligent ain't the word.

There best avoided or sport fuc*ed only.

Haha, I love this one..."sport f*cked". That's exactly what it is. Many women are worthless scum of the earth that serve no purpose here or contribute to anything positive, other than to only be "sport f*cked".

 

[MacAvoy]

YEP. I see it with my scumbag uncle the way he drills this into his daughters head. "Go find a wealthy guy" he tells her. Poor kid is being corrupted. And when I call him out on it, he doesn't know what to say. The guy's a chump anyway if you couldn't guess.



Any woman who is like this IS a shallow SHEEP who is conforming. Pathetic.



Unintelligent ain't the word.




Haha, I love this one..."sport f*cked". That's exactly what it is. Many women are worthless scum of the earth that serve no purpose here or contribute to anything positive, other than to only be "sport f*cked".

And people call me jaded?

 

[STR8UP]

i was saying over and over a few months ago that the weaker of any two organisms will instinctively become the more manipulative of the two - because they have to be!

Behold, the power of the pu$$y.

I thought I remembered you bringing that up awhile back. It's so true....women MUST know how to use what they got to get what they want.

but the good news with women is that they can't do anything to you that you don't allow them to do. so sure, they are quite evolved in terms of manipulation and using emotion to get what they want - but it ONLY works because men allow it to.

ALL of women's power stems from p*ssy power. men allow themselves to be deceived and manipulated because they want the p*ssy.

That's why it's so important to avoid getting sucked into an emotional battle with a woman. You can't win. No amount of logic will win an emotional argument. It took me 30 some odd years to realize this.

 

[edger]

And people call me jaded?

How am I jaded? I never said all women were gold-diggers. Some are, some aren't. So what are you talking about?

 

[edger]

MacAvoy, I've even said many times from what I've seen, a lot of hot women go for men with modest incomes, like JonWon has even validated.