Why were most men in the olden days naturally alpha?

[El Payaso]

How come a lot men these days are naturally beta? Most remain this way to the grave and only a few in their later years become enlightened about female behavior. What caused this shift?

 

[Eph]

I think it was a mix between single mothers raising boys on their own, and society telling us that you should be nice to girls. A lack of knowledge to put it in better terms. It just became a lost art. It was our (those of us raised by single mothers) confusion due to our lack of knowledge regarding the truth, that caused men to become beta. Then over time, the boys grow up to become men, still never knowing the truth. They talk to their friends and kids, and tell them everything they know whenever it seems they've figured it out, and the false knowledge spreads.

Over a few generations, this became normal.

 

[Tictac]

Men went out I to the world and brought back what was necessary for those at home to survive

Women stayed at home tending to things there so that men had a place to come back to.

It was complementary - both jobs were necessary for survival.

 

[JaegerPilot217]

I think it was a mix between single mothers raising boys on their own, and society telling us that you should be nice to girls. A lack of knowledge to put it in better terms. It just became a lost art. It was our (those of us raised by single mothers) confusion due to our lack of knowledge regarding the truth, that caused men to become beta. Then over time, the boys grow up to become men, still never knowing the truth. They talk to their friends and kids, and tell them everything they know whenever it seems they've figured it out, and the false knowledge spreads.

Over a few generations, this became normal.

ya but a lot of guys are Beta eventhough they were not raised by single Moms, they grew up with both their real Dad and Mom around, maybe the Feminist Movement?

 

[Stagger Lee]

Socialization or nurture is a power thing that sticks with a person usually their entirely life. Men today are socialized to be beta from birth, or at least from about age 5 when they go to school.

Then it's reinforced by women and society their entire lives. If you took the typical beta American or westerner adult and immersed him in a non-beta-izing society he'd probably lose the programming. It's kind of what happens with guys just reading the manosphere. Environment is a big factor. Human behavior adopts and responds strongly to environmental cues.

 

[Jaylan]

How come a lot men these days are naturally beta? Most remain this way to the grave and only a few in their later years become enlightened about female behavior. What caused this shift?

Um no they werent more alpha back then. People always assume this is so when it wasnt reality. Like Tic Tac said...men and women just needed each other. Society had a firm structure...and most people were regular average folks. There werent many "alphas" in my opinion.

What was reality is that back in the day, women lacked independence or money making power, and thus any man could find a spouse. Plus back then, it was uncommon not to get married young in your 20s. Society was rigid...and back then (1950s and prior) there was no hooking up like there is today. Men basically finished high school, some went to college, many got jobs right away, and were married 25 at the latest it seemed. Think about it, in those days women were simply looking for the best provider.

If you talk to enough old couples, while there are great marriages between folks who grew old together...I personally know older folks who stayed married because it was expected of them. The marriages had no passion, they were never truly in love, and they stayed together for the kids. Sleeping in separate beds or having a dying sex life isnt something new to our generation. Its happened for ages, but at least today, people can bail on bad relationships. How alpha is it to be trapped in a relationship with a woman who snapped you up as a provider?

Guys gotta be realistic and realize that this happened a lot back in the day, the same way it does today. At least today men can enjoy casual sex and less societal pressure to settle down.

And because a lot of guys here use attaining women as a barometer of what makes a man alpha, many people just look back on the past and proclaim that men were more alpha. I argue that there were a lot more scrubs back in the day and even fewer guys at the top of things running the show in various areas of society.

Anyways, since you cannot be guaranteed a woman nowadays just by having a job and looking to shack up early, some men look around and proclaim that men are less alpha. A lot more men have more opportunities to be alpha today than they have in the past. And back in the day, "betas" existed, but you wouldnt notice it much because women would date and marry those guys and stay with them because they needed to in order to survive.

While the rich poor gap surely has increased A LOT in the United States, more men have the opportunity to become alpha. And its possible to do so through diverse means. I feel "alpha" traits are more diverse, achievable and less consolidated than in the past.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Um no they werent. People always assume this is so when it wasnt reality.

What was reality is that back in the day, women lacked independence or money making power, and thus any many could find a spouse....

Uh that's why men were alpha back in the day. They kept women in check. Back then when any woman anywhere nagged and complained asking for more, men just rolled their eyes and chuckled and thought, "kids say the darndest things".

You could also argue men kept each other men in check. They didn't let the village players fvck everyone's daughter, sister, girlfriend, wife etc. You might debate that point, but at least they were keeping female hypergamy in check.

 

[Jaylan]

Uh that's why men were alpha back in the day. They kept women in check. Back then when any woman anywhere nagged and complained asking for more, men just rolled their eyes and chuckled and thought, "kids say the darndest things".

You could also argue men kept each other men in check. They didn't let the village players fvck everyone's daughter, sister, girlfriend, wife etc. You might debate that point, but at least they were keeping female hypergamy in check.

I see nothing alpha about merely having a woman settle for you as her provider because she has no other options. Thats what happened a lot back then.

Thats no different from what happens to betas today. Id rather a woman choose me because she wants to bang me, or actually enjoys my company. Id argue that hypergamy was as prevalent back in the times where women had little power, independence, or money. Back in the day, all a woman had to do was figure what guy leaving high school was going to land a nice gig at the local manufacturing plant, and latch onto him.

 

[3agle 3yes]

I pretty much agree with you Jaylan, but I have to say being "alpha" is a mind-set...there is nothing physical you possess that can make you an "alpha"

 

[VikingKing]

I would say gender roles were just clearly defined back then, as they should be. There were still "betas" but they didn't purposely socially condition them that way.

Even my grandpa who is like 90 now, talks about how when he was in the corps, him and his buddy were always getting in trouble for sneaking of base to go to a bar, get drunk, dance with the women and of course probably fvck them.

The social conditioning via the media, and our public schools is disease minded, and sick. Thank any one who leans towards the left in terms of politics.

Think about it, a society of weak men is a society very easy to control.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I see nothing alpha about merely having a woman settle for you as her provider because she has no other options. Thats what happened a lot back then.

Thats no different from what happens to betas today. Id rather a woman choose me because she wants to bang me, or actually enjoys my company. Id argue that hypergamy was as prevalent back in the times where women had little power, independence, or money. Back in the day, all a woman had to do was figure what guy leaving high school was going to land a nice gig at the local manufacturing plant, and latch onto him.

It's not the same as today because women don't cook, clean and be subservient to today's betas or stay faithful or even stay with them. Women still had a choice of who they married as most all men could provide.

 

[Good Gao]

So hard to define Alpha and Beta but I do notice that these days women have a changed preference in what they prefer. Back in the 90s, younger women wanted a more masculine looking guy as opposed to the pretty boy but these days it is the exact opposite. Male modeling was not nearly as famous back then as it is these days. Men are less masculine in appearance than they were back in earlier times because there is more pressure on them to be "pretty" as opposed to handsome if you guys get what I am trying to say.

Men these days also have a lot more sexual partners because sleeping around is not as looked down upon as it was say in the earlier days. In earlier days men got married early and stuck with that one girl while these days men just get married as they are hitting their 30s and spend some time experimenting around.

If we are going by lay count, men these are more alpha but if we are talking masculinity then men in older days were more alpha.

 

[Kailex]

A lot has changed in the last 50 years. Society carried on, pretty much the same way for thousands of years. And then it all changed.

That's why EVERYTHING seems different nowadays.

 

[Good Gao]

A lot has changed in the last 50 years. Society carried on, pretty much the same way for thousands of years. And then it all changed.

That's why EVERYTHING seems different nowadays.

More like in the past decade.

Just 10 years ago Mypsace was barely getting started and people there used nicknames as their screen name and nothing was personal. Now you have facbeook, twitter, instargram, LinkedIn, and all these things were people are putting their real names and pics on the web. Everything runs through the internet these days as opposed to 10 years ago.

I worry about the kids growing up these days.

Back then we enjoyed good moments and lived in them but these days even middle schoolers have smart phones, everyone is more concerned about uploading their pics to tumblr and facebook to get validation as opposed to just enjoying the moment. It's like the more technologically advanced we become our emotions slowly go away and we just feel so empty inside.

This comes into play with women too, back in the 90s a 6 knew that she was a 6 and nothing more. Now?

Introduce social media and you have a 6 who is getting constant messages from thirsty guys and she no longer knows that she is a 6, she now thinks of herself as a 9.

 

[rascal99v]

Society has changed that's why. Too much "PC" and "media" bvllsh1t nowdays where men have gotten soft and women became wh0res.

I hear stories from all the old timers about what they did in the old days. If two guys got in an argument in a bar they took it outside or in the corner to fight. Now you would get arrested and go to jail for that.

Sh1t, our congressmen in the 1700's took out to the streets to have a duel if they wanted to settle a dispute. Not sayng that's how you settle an argument but that's what they did.

Everybody has to be careful not to say something that offends somebody. If you do make an off the cuff remark you get branded as a racist, misogynist, or homophobe. Then people cause a stink and you lose your job.

Look at all the old TV shows like "All In The Family" etc, you couldn't have a show like that on TV today.

When women follow The Kardashians, Miley Cyrus, Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, trashy reality tv, you get women becoming wh0res that have no respect.

It's the internet that did it because people get their propaganda they call news, women can get tons of attention from men, men are too busy online messing with women or complaining instead of going out in the field.

Old timers told me that women respected men back in the day, because they needed them to survive. Now they really don't need men as much as before. Lots of men will kiss their asses so they lose respect in a disrespectful soiciety.

 

[logicallefty]

Many many many good replies here, and they all seem correct in some form.

Here is my breakdown:

Who has traditionally controlled things in the world? men

What is the ONE and only true thing that true men need that they can not get from anywhere other than a women? pu$$y

At some point somewhere, probably in mid 20th century West, the idea started amoung men that if you give these creatures called women more privildges, more rights, more freedom, and less responsibility, they will give you, the man, more pu$$y.

And so it started, and spread like the Black Death. But it kept spreading and women didn't meet up to their end of the deal to those who caught the disease.

As the disease spread amoung men around the world, there were a small elite group of men who found this pill that was red in color, took it, and were cured. Some took it at birth or a very young age with the help of their fathers. Others didn't get it until they were older and had already caught the disease.

Which brings us to today, here, and now, the group of men who have mostly taken the pill and been cured, or are trying to get their pill and be cured.

 

[usernamedox11]

check out this article:

http://markmanson.net/butchering-the-alpha-male

 

[Kailex]

This comes into play with women too, back in the 90s a 6 knew that she was a 6 and nothing more. Now?

Introduce social media and you have a 6 who is getting constant messages from thirsty guys and she no longer knows that she is a 6, she now thinks of herself as a 9.

I'll agree with this, but the groundwork for that was laid out for a few decades before. I'm positive the internet was the catalyst. I've seen the dating game completely change in the last 10-15 years because of the advent of caller ID, call waiting, the internet, social media, etc, etc, etc...

Just look at the amount of women on online dating that use the "angles" and require men to make a certain amount of income and that need to wine and dine her... even though I would NEVER, EVER talk to them at a bar.

Now most men I've met reek of desperation, specially sub-25 year olds who have been thrust into this world. As much as I dislike the dating game now (even though I stilll do well in it), I'd HATE to be the 15 year old who goes out with women in 7 years that never knew a world without feminism, Facebook, Instagram, etc...

 

[BeDJ]

That is very interesting, I've asked myself something similar - Why do chicks these days go for assho|es that work out, take care of their appearance and make an effort at being social rather than an alpha, like me, who understands Game, overweight and unemployed? I'm sick and tired of being friend-zoned. Can anyone else relate?

 

[IBreatheSpears]

Average testosterone levels have decreased over the years. Some say it's due to environmental pollution (including from the birth control pill, which is known to affect fish), others suggest lack of necessity - as men have been domesticated, we don't need high testosterone for things like hunting and defending territory. It's probably a mixture of both, and maybe more, because the time since the (first) industrial revolution isn't long enough for a significant evolutionary change. Diet and lack of exercise probably contribute a lot too. I think it's probably much more environmental than genetic.