Why No One Takes The Fight For Traditional Marriage Seriously

[ArcBound]

Duggar caught paying over $1000 on Ashley Madison account.

They found someone with his exact name, email address, and address registered to one of the homes his grandmother owns, as well as relevant financial information on the site Ashley Madison.

This is the guy who has been fighting for traditional marriage vehemently.

However a common theme among politicians and those who espouse for traditional marriage, is they themselves don't support it. Duggar didn't want gays to marry but he was willing to spend a truckload of money on a cheating site.

Or the Republican lawmaker who last week was found to create a fake story of him getting gay hookers, to cover up the fact that he cheated on his wife with another married person. Oops.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/todd-courser-facebook-sinner-god

It is interesting that Republicans constantly say 1-man and 1-woman because they argue against situations where it is 2-men or 2-women but apparently have no qualms with extramarital affairs.

If even Republicans half heartedly believe the sh!t they talk about every election day, what hope does the rest of the population have in following it? Makes me think even in the supposed good old days, hypergamy was probably as rampant as ever. The people in power always fvcked with as many women as they could

Ex. Kings, Princes, Pastors, Popes (whole section about illegtimate children of these guys), etc. all these people espouse 1 man 1 woman marriages yet take many women for themselves.

Heck even in Judaism/Christianity... take a look at King David, King Solomon. Solomon had 1000 virgins. That means 999 Israeli men never got a spouse during that time lmao. Look at Islam. There is a 4 wife limit, but their prophet took a 5th from his own adopted son! Of course an angel came and told him it was OK.

Medieval times had prima noctis. If you were not of the noble class, your wife was first fvcked by whoever owned you. In China if you were an intellect you were castrated into an eunuch and the emperor fvcked your woman.

Perhaps the fight for traditional marriage is losing because traditional marriage never existed in the first place. It seems to me only a few people are even capable of staying in a long term monogamous relationship. Many people tell others monogamy is the way to go, but at the same time want more partners themselves.

I think the American population subconsciously knows this and we push marriage back even if we aren't "Redpill". In the digital age, everything is recorded and we can see the stark difference between what a person says and what he does.

And before anyone comes in and says religion used to restrain women's sexuality to prevent them from enacting their hypergamy, I say wrong. Religion was used to enable hypergamy discreetly. In fact, in my life I saw hypergamy happen the most in churches, towards the pastor or current leader.

Or ask Rasputin, popes, St. Augustine, any king in the Old Testament, Muhhammad, modern day yoga gurus, pastors, etc. These guys get laid with heavy moral cover. We like to think back to the good old days, but if we had internet back then I think we'd see the same thing we see now. Ever wonder why God's description of Israel in the OT sometimes sounds like a girl going far away onm Spring Break to svck d!ck? It is almost like that they did too back in the day. (See the entire 23rd chapter of Ezekiel as one example).

Heck even St. Augustine who both Catholics and Protestants love was a dude who fvcked many women and then advocated to others that they shouldn't. Much like modern day conservatives.

So where am I going with this? I propose that we are not in a time where Marriage 2.0 is common place. I propose that Marriage 1.0 as the manosphere sees it never existed in the first place. We are only now finding out via recording devices, DNA tests, technologies not available for most of history.

AWALT even those from other time periods. Build power and you will get more than 1 woman after you. Don't have power and you will be like the eunuchs, peasants, commoners, losers like all throughout history.

 

[speed dawg]

Disagree. As traditional marriage/family goes, so goes society.

You are basing this on what PEOPLE do. Even the people who want these things (me including) still are just people, with the same urges you have. I don't understand why you expect Christians to be higher-ability beings that levitate above the rest of society. It isn't true. Christians (true Christians) are just doing their best to follow the will of God. That's it. You are not suddenly transformed when you become a Christian (no matter what some cheesy Baptist churches say). At that point, all you have done is admitted that you need God to save you and you commit to following his lead.

Solomon having 1,000 wives was a sin. He was also a person, and very successful person. He was in violation of God's law, and he reaped what he sowed. This applies to all the rest you typed too.

I welcome these questions though. I myself questioned all these things for years, and I'm glad I did, because my belief in God/Christianity/family/etc. is now stronger than ever. I have no doubt now.

 

[prison/con.net]

Conclusions are what you get when you've stopped learning.

 

[Tictac]

Marraige isn't bad. Ending one is disastrous for men.

For men, the legal system is a permanent awakening nightmare.

 

[ted deef]

Disagree. As traditional marriage/family goes, so goes society.

You are basing this on what PEOPLE do. Even the people who want these things (me including) still are just people, with the same urges you have. I don't understand why you expect Christians to be higher-ability beings that levitate above the rest of society. It isn't true. Christians (true Christians) are just doing their best to follow the will of God. That's it. You are not suddenly transformed when you become a Christian (no matter what some cheesy Baptist churches say). At that point, all you have done is admitted that you need God to save you and you commit to following his lead.

Solomon having 1,000 wives was a sin. He was also a person, and very successful person. He was in violation of God's law, and he reaped what he sowed. This applies to all the rest you typed too.

I welcome these questions though. I myself questioned all these things for years, and I'm glad I did, because my belief in God/Christianity/family/etc. is now stronger than ever. I have no doubt now.

but your gay

 

[backbreaker]

I agree and disagree. I understand where you are coming from and it is very hypocritical for people to not practice what they preach.

with that said, it has been proven by every possible metric possible that children that grow up in traditional nucular families end up better adjusted, make more money, commit less crimes, are less likely to be violent, etc whatever.


One thing I always found ironi about the manopshere is on one hand they preach how men should go their own way and disown marriage, but on the other hand they are quick to hit you with the black people commit more crimes / are not as smart / don't make as much money / whatever book. You can't have both lol.

72% of all african americans grew up or are growing up in single parent house holds. If you lined up 100 blakc people, 72 of them grew up in a single parent house hold. Those 72 people are more likely to commit crimes, more likely to be on government assistance, more likely to have children out of wedlock, more likely to not go to college more likely to etc


even if you are lucky enough to get past the crime rate, the lack of education, the lack of everything that comes with having a traditional nucular family you still have girls growing up that don't' know how to treat men, who abuse drugs, who have abandonment issues and men who don't know how to treat women because the only game advice they ever got was from their mom who told them to put women on pedestals, who have abandonment issues and cling to women making it more likely for them to have successful relationships


I grew up in a single parent household and people that grew up with two parents that gave a **** about them really are privileged and dont' know it. There is a lot of **** that you take for granted that you don't have or have that people with single parent households don't. It took me years of low sel esteem, drug abuse and counseling to come to grips with the fact that my dad didn't give 2 ****s about me or my mom.


Short of my wife just cheating on me there is very little my wie could do to where i would not stick it out for my kids. Not saying she's a bad wife just saying, i've been there it's not fun. I won't put my kis through that unless i absolutely have to.


Every woman i've seriously dated has been from a two parent home.Every girl that i've tried to date from a single parent house hold has had some **** baggage that i was not gonna put up with. Think about it: a woman who grew up with a mom and a dad and saw her mom and dad love each other, is going to grow up with the sub concious idea that this is what life and love is about; finding that person and building a life with them. That's what "normal" is to her. Take a girl whoose dad left and mom dated all through her childhood is going to go through the motions but is always going to be moving on and looking for mr right, becuase i the back of her mind, that is normal; that's what she saw her entire life.


Im not " eeryone should be married and marriage is the best thing for everyone" guy. It's not for everyone. but i'm probably the most conservative mother****er you'll ever met when dealing wit marriage / traditional family values in general. It's the backbone of a productive society. You think steve jobs become steve jobs if his (adopted) dad was out on the street chasing tail every night lol? you think bill gates starts microsfot if he grew up with a single mom who slutted it up all the time and had guys over all the time?

 

[Tenacity]

I agree with a lot of the points ArcBound made. As I have pointed out in prior posts and in prior threads, our society is moving from a Center Right based society (Conservative) to a Center Left based society (Progressive/Liberal) and that's creating the fundamental changes you are seeing in society, culture, media, big business and government. It's also influenced the cultural changes you are seeing with women PERIOD in terms of feminism/gynocentrism.

If you are still operating like a "Traditional" Man today, all you are going to get is used, manipulated, discarded, cheated on, lied to, and financially bankrupted.

Just like how a business will fail if they fail to adapt to the times, you as a Man will fail today if you fail to adapt to this new market. This new market in summary:

- Does not value Fatherhood. Motherhood is placed above Fatherhood and the Government has become the new pseudo Father. So know that coming into this, your "value" is not what it used to be in the household, the community nor society.

- Does not value true Masculinity. True masculinity is about building, perserving, protecting, leadership, etc. These are the type of men that a lot of women are deliberately AVOIDING to get with in terms of a relationship, because she has difficulties controlling said guy. She doesn't want to "submit" anymore, she wants to "rule".

- Does not value being a Gentlemen. Thus, say what you feel and mean what you say, there's no need to bite your tongue. There's also no need to go out of your way to kiss a.ss, please a woman, or please anybody. Be self-centered and put your self first. I know that sounds harsh, but this market of women takes your arrogant/****y attitude as "confidence" when in times past, true confidence was displayed through being humble.

- Does not value Heroism. There was a time when going to the Military and fighting for your country helped symbolize Masculinity, now, you are just mocked, used as a pawn in fake wars (*cough* Iraq *cough*) and when you come back home they will barely approve you for a damn Food Stamp.


I have been out here dating women consistently for years, not just one or two women, a lot of them. From my first hand experiences, second hand experiences, and research based initiatives, I decided I was not going to be some pawn in this fvcked up game out here.

That's why I opted out of Marriage and Making Children, preferring to leave women only as "Friends" which would be either a girlfriend or a friend with benefits. Doing this allows me to take the benefits of women, which are Sex and Companionship, without all of the costs of women that come when you either Marry one, create a Kid with one, move in with one, or are financially depended on one in one way or another.

While I'm not telling you to take my approach, I am asking you to at least consider the points I'm making (and have been making) and do the research for yourself first hand, second hand and through generic research. See if you don't come to the same conclusions.

The vast majority of the issues Men face with women today, have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Man himself. We are told that over and over, but that's a damn lie. Most of these issues are a result of this new Center Left society, feminism and gynocentrism. NEITHER of which you can damn control.

 

[ArcBound]

@backbreaker

I know there are advantages to a two parent household, I've made a thread about it in the recent past arguing for marriage.

The thing I am arguing is that the manosphere constantly looks back to some mythical good ol days where they think hypergamy was kept largely in check. That is the point I am arguing against.

History is full of examples showing that isn't the case as in my original post. Also I have a lot of friends whose parents come from those super stable societies with less than a 10% divorce rate. A good amount of them cheat. A good amount of them are secretly open marriages. A good amount of husbands and wives in the marriages hate each other, but stay together for the sake of stability. There is also a reason a lot of classical literature deals with the topic of bastard children and affair children.

I don't doubt monogamy can work, but I think it works for a smaller subset of people than we think. And for the types of people who constantly espouse monogamy, you have to be on your guard. I've found that the people in my life who talked about monogamy the most were ironically the least likely to be able to hold a monogamous relationship.

Fact is I think the type of man who is attractive, attracts more than one woman at a time. (For example Aztecs knew this, and the higher in rank you were, the more women you were awarded.) It takes a special amount of self-control to not act on it. I'm sure you know backbreaker, but ultimately you made the choice to only be with your wife. People like Duggar did so yet despite his supposed moral convictions, his preaching on the sins of marriage, his religious stance, he not only cheated but spent thousands doing so.

Kind of like how King Solomon in the stories of the Torah or Bible sings about being with the wife of your youth yet goes on a 1000 virgin rampage. Or the same with any European, Asian, African royalty. Or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...s_sexually_active_after_receiving_Holy_Orders

Press Ctrl + F and look up illegitimate, mistress, and affair, and count how many illegitimate children were had by popes throughout history. These same people preached to the peasants that they have to have one wife. The tradition has been continued within American Protestantism.

Here is what I think. Monogamy is a useful institution because it allows one or more alphas to limit the amount of women other alphas or aspiring alphas can get. Look at how many people come to SoSuave or the manosphere alone, who cry about how society lied to them about soulmates, lifelong marriage, etc.

The thing is if you are powerful, people will excuse you for anything. John F. Kennedy is considered one of America's greatest presidents yet if your wife or girlfriend was anywhere near him, he fvcked her no question about it lol. Look at how many pastors are forgiven despite fvcking the wife of another man in his own congregation! Get power and you will find people overlook your "mistakes", forgive you more easily, etc.

I think the modern day disgust at the situation is just more men becoming AWARE of what has been going on for centuries. We have foolproof recordings. Electronic evidence. DNA and biological testing. The experience of many men all written in some random part of the internet called SoSuave or the manosphere.

@speed dawg I mentioned Judaism and Islam as well as this isn't specific to Christianity. Solomon and David were Jewish after all. The problem I have is this "I don't understand why you expect Christians to be higher-ability beings that levitate above the rest of society. It isn't true"

While I can accept that part, the part I can't accept is that the same people like Duggar, work on Family Councils, create videos saying you are immoral and a very bad person if you commit adultery, yet do it. I have some agnostic, atheist friends who do bad sh!t like that too, the difference is they do not try to be a moral compass for society. People like Duggar do, and no matter what religion, or lack thereof you follow, if you claim to be a moral leader for society then yes, you DO have higher standards place on yourself.

 

[speed dawg]

If you are still operating like a "Traditional" Man today, all you are going to get is used, manipulated, discarded, cheated on, lied to, and financially bankrupted.

I understand where you derived most of your post/opinion Tenacity, mainly because we've been discussing stuff on here for years. But I don't know that I agree with all of it, especially what I quoted here. Real masculine men really don't have to worry about this, because they see the true reality and have basically made themselves immune.

And make no mistake.......true attraction from women to men (you know, Interest Level and all that), will ALWAYS be there, and has been since the dawn of time. Sure there are behavioral patterns that change things temporarily, but don't make the mistake of thinking this new gynocentric way of doing things will last. This is NOT some society we have to adapt to.....we just have to ride it out until the ideology collapses.

While I can accept that part, the part I can't accept is that the same people like Duggar, work on Family Councils, create videos saying you are immoral and a very bad person if you commit adultery, yet do it. I have some agnostic, atheist friends who do bad sh!t like that too, the difference is they do not try to be a moral compass for society. People like Duggar do, and no matter what religion, or lack thereof you follow, if you claim to be a moral leader for society then yes, you DO have higher standards place on yourself.

Agreed. Makes you wonder if they were ever true Christians to begin with. Nobody wants to be preached at by a hypocrite.

 

[logicallefty]

Marraige isn't bad. Ending one is disastrous for men.

For men, the legal system is a permanent awakening nightmare.

....which is why I have learned over the past 3 years to be able to fight my own legal battles with minimal help from an attorney. And not to brag but I am pretty damn good at it now... Now that I figured out all the little tricks and under the table goon babble that happens in the legal world. The majority of stuff happens "off the record".. Court and the stuff you see is only a dog and pony show.. ANyway, the American legal system is designed to:

1) scare the man into thinking he needs a lawyer to read the 3 character word "law" on a piece of paper

2) drain the man's finances paying for said attorney in parallel with giving 1/2 or more of what is left to the woman

3) tire the man out by having poop bombs of false accusations and facts thrown at him from all directions simultaniously

4) provide a window to give women money and resources that they did not earn

When I went through the ordeal with my bigamist ex, she had this law firm work with her the whole way free and clear. The law firm normally didn't work with divorces (or annulments because of bigamy in my case), but because of the fact that she had put an order of protection on me (falsely), that opened the door so the firm did ALL OF IT for her for free.... To the contrary with me, I spent about $8000.00 on attorneys and was really represented no worse or no better than she was.. Both of our attorneys were closely matched..

Bottom line: don't get married in the USA, don't get married in the United States, don't get married in America, don't get married in the US.... Yeah, all of those.

Also, learn some law yourself, and be ready to use it when people try to fvck you over...