Why I think men struggle with women in modern dating today

[CornbreadFed]

Laziness and Scarcity Mindset

Most men just do not want to put in the work or sweat to raise their smv, dating skills, and market themselves appropriately. In addition, these men probably get at most 3 real shots with a girl and they strike out due to lack of experience and desperation. As a result, these men become black pilled keyboard jockeys that just want to sit on the internet and complain all of the time. Remember a .300 batting average is considered above average in the MLB, so obsessing and crying over that one girl that rejected you is pitiful.

Unrealistic expectations-

I know a lot of men that are average or below average in smv and expect to only score hot women. This leads to long dry spells or them being taken advantage over by some hot single mom or some control freak girl/gold digger that values power or money over looks. They choose either pornhub or the short seat in the relationship. Know where you stand in smv and if you are not satisfied by it then improve it. Last, swallow the pill that a 6/10 girl is not on the same level as a 6/10 men. If you want a woman that is remotely attractive with no baggage, you are going to have to work for it.

Logistics-

Plain and simple, you do not live in an area around a lot of single women or you live in your mom’s basement.

Do not market to their target market-

A lot of guys buy a supply of umbrellas and attempt to sell them in Phoenix, Arizona instead of Seattle, Washington. I see a lot of this in brown guys that try so hard to get blonde white women that only want Chads. You want to know how uglier guys get hotter girls? They appeal to a certain market. There’s a market literally for EVERYTHING. This 10/10 is a vegan and she will only date another vegan, and it just so happens that your looks are good enough for her to date you anyway. Whatever your interests, personality, hobbies, and etc are, I am sure there is a girl out there that has a strong preference for it. PUAs and gurus have done a great job in brainwashing men in to being fake masculine mindless robots instead of being yourself. I am sure there’s a market of women that like mindless dull men that are obsessed with pill ideology, but it is really small lol. The point is to be putting yourself out there to women that will find you attractive. If you naturally have an introverted/nerdy personality, why are you going out to bars and clubs to find women?

 

[Reincarnated]

Good stuff, but it's all been said before. I think the big one is laziness. We live in a time where I think the "mid-tier" guys are of lower quality than compared to mid tier guys in times past. This leads even more women to the guys who are in the higher tiers, and reaffirms the idea of scarcity to the lazy guys

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Anecdote:

I remember once sitting at a bar that overlooked a busy part of downtown in a very happening mid size city in the US. The city has a state university nearby and downtown early evening was crawling with the young women in skimpy outfits done up to the nines, getting ready to go out for the night.

I noticed a girl that appealed to me a great deal, who was a brunette, very curvy, and with a very pretty face. The guy that I was hanging out with was easily 15-20 years younger than me, and while he was not an ogre, he was overweight, like pretty darn overweight. I made mention of the girl and he looks at me with a straight face and says “dude she’s facking fat.” I could not believe my ears dude is like fat Albert fat. He had no concept of his own self. I think that’s a lot of guys today.

Know your market, your strengths and weaknesses, and work with them. The most important thing is to know where you are in the sexual market place. Be realistic. Take a good look at yourself and if you don’t see women that you think you deserve with men that look like you or close to you that should tell you something you can improve yourself and make some changes to achieve what you want but there’s only so much you can do outside of a setting where you stand.

 

[BadBoy89]

Laziness and Scarcity Mindset

Most men just do not want to put in the work or sweat to raise their smv, dating skills, and market themselves appropriately. In addition, these men probably get at most 3 real shots with a girl and they strike out due to lack of experience and desperation. As a result, these men become black pilled keyboard jockeys that just want to sit on the internet and complain all of the time. Remember a .300 batting average is considered above average in the MLB, so obsessing and crying over that one girl that rejected you is pitiful.

How about 2 girls?

You are right, men don’t want to put in the work or sweat and raise their market value for women who are non virgins and losing their looks by the day.

Unrealistic expectations-

If you want a woman that is remotely attractive with no baggage, you are going to have to work for it.

What does the woman have to do?

Logistics-

Plain and simple, you do not live in an area around a lot of single women or you live in your mom’s basement.

OK, the man doesn’t live in an area around a lot of single women. He is supposed to; change his job, change his home, change his friends, move halfway across the country because more single women are located there.

Great theory. Not reality.

Do not market to their target market-

You want to know how uglier guys get hotter girls? They appeal to a certain market.

I always thought it was because they had a hot younger sister.

Points are good in theory but it’s not reality. It’s not a cause and effect issue, In 2023, men would rather relax and enjoy themselves than kill themselves on the off-chance they may get a decent looking single women to have sex with the 3 months after dating. Who, probably has an abusive attitude because society has trained her to.

These are good points for a man to improve himself. But they are not good points for a man to ”get the hot young girl.”

 

[HaleyBaron]

I love when the new posters come onto this forum and attempt to pretend they know everything. Meanwhile, all the posts they do so far is just bluepilled and naive stuff that comes off green as hell. I don't usually bash new users cause I welcome everyone but Cornbread is acting like a cornbread.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

In terms of most of the active posters here I’m a relative newcomer. I do feel at home here and I think that for the most part we do a pretty good job of helping people out when we can. I’ll go as far as to say that some of us feel very protective of the forum.

Now, every now and then we do have a new poster that may have just come to the forum for the first time, but actually does have some valuable knowledge to impart. Obviously, we should look at what they have to say and see if it has merit or not based on what we know and give credit where credit is due.

I think the OP here actually did add something to the discussion, it may not all be new, and it could be a rehash of the water is wet and bananas are yellow but it’s still valuable. We cannot expect all our new users to read the whole forum here in order not to be redundant when posting. I’d be willing to bet that just about every post most of us make has been made in one way or another over the last decade. There are some threads that probably have 20 or 30 iterations.

Anyway, I’ll stop rambling now.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Do you think a guy already having millions of dollars will go to forums in how to become a millionaire?

No but he may go there because he enjoys mentoring.

More importantly however any man thinks he knows everything about any subject has stopped growing.

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." —Socrates

 

[Robert28]

Yeah, we know.

Not only do we know, but some of us just don’t care anymore. I don’t want to look back on my life and regret trying to be what women want and not be who I want. If who I’m happy with doesn’t get women’s attention then so be it. Life is too short to be a dancing monkey, go live your life for YOU.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Yeah I don’t mean “thickkk” this gals body is what I mean, facially this example isn’t what I’d normally choose, but that body sure works:


To each their own man. The post was about self awareness.

He might have just been commenting on the body type he finds attractive.

you said “curvy”. The modern thicc look doesn’t do anything for me,I think a lot of these girls held up as goddesses now are what would have been considered fat 20 years ago and I don’t get it.

People have different tastes and I would wager you’d think the women other dudes like are skinny.

There have been some women I’ve seen guys swoon over and I’m like “no, I don’t find her at all attractive”

 

[sangheilios]

Anecdote:

I remember once sitting at a bar that overlooked a busy part of downtown in a very happening mid size city in the US. The city has a state university nearby and downtown early evening was crawling with the young women in skimpy outfits done up to the nines, getting ready to go out for the night.

I noticed a girl that appealed to me a great deal, who was a brunette, very curvy, and with a very pretty face. The guy that I was hanging out with was easily 15-20 years younger than me, and while he was not an ogre, he was overweight, like pretty darn overweight. I made mention of the girl and he looks at me with a straight face and says “dude she’s facking fat.” I could not believe my ears dude is like fat Albert fat. He had no concept of his own self. I think that’s a lot of guys today.

Know your market, your strengths and weaknesses, and work with them. The most important thing is to know where you are in the sexual market place. Be realistic. Take a good look at yourself and if you don’t see women that you think you deserve with men that look like you or close to you that should tell you something you can improve yourself and make some changes to achieve what you want but there’s only so much you can do outside of a setting where you stand.

I can cite a few examples of men and teenage boys criticizing the appearance of an attractive woman. It's totally possible that they actually believe what they are saying, but I personally feel that they do this with women that they recognize are out of their league and they do that to take her down a notch. These men feel insecure around these attractive women, which is normal/common. However, they combine this insecurity with the emotional need to tear these women apart in order to deal with these feelings they are experiencing. Very bad qualities for a man to have.

However, you'll see this type of behavior in women quite often. Women will especially do this to one another, I believe it comes from a similar mindset where they feel insecure/intimidated and feel the need to bring the other person down a notch. However, I also believe that women will also do this to men that they are insecure around. They may also do this to a man in order to make him question himself, it's basically a power/control mechanism.

 

[Alvafe]

or I don't know, there is really no woman worth enough to settle down, most are just for fun and then to be tossed, the issue is most guys still dream about marriage and the whole white fence

 

[MatureDJ]

This 10/10 is a vegan and she will only date another vegan, and it just so happens that your looks are good enough for her to date you anyway.

It's OVER for CarnivoreCels.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Men struggle with womens expectations not their own

Said it a million times pretty girls are dime a dozen , its not in any way shape or form difficult for a woman to place herself as a 7 on most men's scales

In most cases all she has to do is eat fairly healthy and know how too put a bit of makeup on / put an alluring outfit together

A man needs to be tall , he needs to be witty , he needs to be confident , he needs to have money & be wealthy , he needs to have a car , he needs to be fit , he needs to be a pillar of the local community

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It used to be the case that an average woman would settle for 1 or 2 attributes knowing her own value wasn't really high enough to demand more

Women have enjoyed a very very good few decades for dating as a female but it's clear as day they are taking it for granted

Now Modern women are fussy and what is happening is the fussiness is starting to sour their perception of men

Its kind of like when you take a beggar in off the street and start feeding them , you give them scraps and leftovers to begin with and they are so grateful to be fed

But then time goes on and they are eating the same meals as you and not even saying thank you anymore , all of a sudden they are demanding you get better quality food in because the current quality isn't cutting it

Yet when you pause and look around all you see is a smelly / dirty beggar demanding food from you, you look out of your window and they are everywhere .......

This is where we are at with women in 2023

Eventually men will see the beggars for what they are , and when that happens the supply / demand equilibrium will shift again

Unfortunately we aren't quite there yet .......men are still idolising them for simply existing

 

[CornbreadFed]

I love when the new posters come onto this forum and attempt to pretend they know everything. Meanwhile, all the posts they do so far is just bluepilled and naive stuff that comes off green as hell. I don't usually bash new users cause I welcome everyone but Cornbread is acting like a cornbread.

And what have you contributed to this site other than emotionally triggered response posts?

 

[HaleyBaron]

bollocks, you bash everyone Haley, stop with the BS, please.

You're another fruity poster here that I take with a grain of salt.

And what have you contributed to this site other than emotionally triggered response posts?

Your response shows you ain't ready to be here. Return from whence you came before you run home crying.

 

[CornbreadFed]

You're another fruity poster here that I take with a grain of salt.


Your response shows you ain't ready to be here. Return from whence you came before you run home crying.

I am deeply sorry that I ruined your safe space. May I suggest the ignore feature to help remedy your problem?

 

[Gamisch]

Can you guys take this bs beef to the dm please ? If you disagree ,at least argue about the topic. If haley thinks these talking points are somewhat regurgitated he does have a piont. On the other hand its difficult to navigate on this site.

Men struggle with womens expectations not their own

Said it a million times pretty girls are dime a dozen , its not in any way shape or form difficult for a woman to place herself as a 7 on most men's scales

In most cases all she has to do is eat fairly healthy and know how too put a bit of makeup on / put an alluring outfit together

A man needs to be tall , he needs to be witty , he needs to be confident , he needs to have money & be wealthy , he needs to have a car , he needs to be fit , he needs to be a pillar of the local community

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It used to be the case that an average woman would settle for 1 or 2 attributes knowing her own value wasn't really high enough to demand more

Women have enjoyed a very very good few decades for dating as a female but it's clear as day they are taking it for granted

Now Modern women are fussy and what is happening is the fussiness is starting to sour their perception of men

Its kind of like when you take a beggar in off the street and start feeding them , you give them scraps and leftovers to begin with and they are so grateful to be fed

But then time goes on and they are eating the same meals as you and not even saying thank you anymore , all of a sudden they are demanding you get better quality food in because the current quality isn't cutting it

Yet when you pause and look around all you see is a smelly / dirty beggar demanding food from you, you look out of your window and they are everywhere .......

This is where we are at with women in 2023

Eventually men will see the beggars for what they are , and when that happens the supply / demand equilibrium will shift again

Unfortunately we aren't quite there yet .......men are still idolising them for simply existing

Great post! If you were there when OLD just started, you as a man at least got a taste of what's it like to date as a woman. The simplicity of the dating app. In no time you go from lonely to taking to multiple people..unfortunately for men this didn't last too long, perhaps 1 or 2 years. For women it remains like in the first days of old.

BUT, i think we slowly see a shift. Recently all the women I meet or know absolutely hate OLD. They've been piling up bad experiences, and they long for the good old days when they would dress nice,knowing that some fellow would make a move on them. Nowadays men don't approach. OLD attention isn't as valuable as real life attention.

I love the beggar analogy. Problem is though, that men don't want that much from women. Loyalty and femininity are enough, and now these features combined are becoming a rarity. The good ol " get a foreign cleaner and marry her" is more powerful than ever before! Men will literally attempt to take home and LTR an attractive female beggar if possible...

 

[SW15]

This was a mainly 'water is wet' type post. There were some decent points in it. I'll offer my point of view to each of the points made by @CornbreadFed .

Laziness and Scarcity Mindset

Most men just do not want to put in the work or sweat to raise their smv, dating skills, and market themselves appropriately. In addition, these men probably get at most 3 real shots with a girl and they strike out due to lack of experience and desperation. As a result, these men become black pilled keyboard jockeys that just want to sit on the internet and complain all of the time. Remember a .300 batting average is considered above average in the MLB, so obsessing and crying over that one girl that rejected you is pitiful.

Laziness is a bit of a problem in Western culture. That's seen in a lot of different areas. Dating is one of them.

There are plenty of gym going men who aren't getting enough attention from women.

Self-improvement is a good thing but it can only go so far. There was a recent thread on here about it. Notice that women never talk about improving themselves. Yes, I know "women are, men must become". It is a bit one-sided, but then again most of dating in Western nations is one-sided. It is an accurate observation to say that, and not black pill.

The issue with telling men to work on self improvement

I've been seeing an interesting trend with mainstream media and youtube, where there is a lot of content recently discussing the issues that young men are experiencing with the modern dating market. There was one piece on CNN saying that over 60% of men were single while around 1/3 women were in...

www.sosuave.net

Scarcity is a big problem. The average man feels the scarcity problem. It's difficult to put into words these feelings that many men feel, but most men know that feeling.

The scarcity feeling pops up when you swipe on hundreds to thousands of women, get a less than 1% match rate, and barely arrange any dates from the effort.

The scarcity feeling pops up when you do multiple approach sessions during the day and don't arrange dates. Getting ignored and rejected during daytime approach sessions is a bad feeling.

The scarcity feeling pops up when you go out to a bar, make approach attempts, and end up going home near closing time somewhat intoxicated and pissed off that you didn't get laid or arrange a date/get a number that night.

Scarcity feelings occur when you work hard for prospects, like in the examples above but have prospects ghost and flake.

As women experience more abundance, men experience more scarcity.

Unrealistic expectations-

I know a lot of men that are average or below average in smv and expect to only score hot women. This leads to long dry spells or them being taken advantage over by some hot single mom or some control freak girl/gold digger that values power or money over looks. They choose either pornhub or the short seat in the relationship. Know where you stand in smv and if you are not satisfied by it then improve it. Last, swallow the pill that a 6/10 girl is not on the same level as a 6/10 men. If you want a woman that is remotely attractive with no baggage, you are going to have to work for it.

There's some merit to this. The overall environment has made it more difficult for men to even score with their looks equal though.

Men are very willing to drop their standards, so I don't see this as a major issue.

Logistics-

Plain and simple, you do not live in an area around a lot of single women or you live in your mom’s basement.

Living with parents is going to be a major issue for adult men for a lot of reasons.

There are a lot of men who either live in smaller areas (under 150,000 metro population) or in the suburbs of larger areas near families. Both those situations are more difficult. The guy in the larger metro area in the suburbs might be able to compete a little bit better but that's a weak competitive position.

If you're a man living alone/with roommates in a populated area in the part of that metro area near the most unmarried people, you have passable logistics. Living within walking distance of bars will help you in getting same night lays at bars and possible first date lays if the walking distance bars are good date bars. It's more difficult to get same night lays/first date lays when there's a need to use ride share apps or drive. There are guys with passable logistics but logistics more conducive to in-person approaches, 2nd-3rd date bangs, and relationships.

A lot of men even with passable logistics aren't spending enough time doing approaches in the real world. Approaching strangers to arrange dates is very time consuming and that's a responsibility on top of working, seeing male friends, and doing household tasks.

Do not market to their target market-

A lot of guys buy a supply of umbrellas and attempt to sell them in Phoenix, Arizona instead of Seattle, Washington. I see a lot of this in brown guys that try so hard to get blonde white women that only want Chads. You want to know how uglier guys get hotter girls? They appeal to a certain market. There’s a market literally for EVERYTHING. This 10/10 is a vegan and she will only date another vegan, and it just so happens that your looks are good enough for her to date you anyway. Whatever your interests, personality, hobbies, and etc are, I am sure there is a girl out there that has a strong preference for it. PUAs and gurus have done a great job in brainwashing men in to being fake masculine mindless robots instead of being yourself. I am sure there’s a market of women that like mindless dull men that are obsessed with pill ideology, but it is really small lol. The point is to be putting yourself out there to women that will find you attractive. If you naturally have an introverted/nerdy personality, why are you going out to bars and clubs to find women?

This is a real factor. A lot of men have difficulty conceptualizing the market and which women will find him most appealing. There are plenty of men who waste time pursuing the wrong markets. I think it's more common for a guy not to have an obvious target market. There are guys who are like 5.5-7 or so in looks who are appealing to women to not automatically get rejected but not appealing enough to be women's top choices. Some of those men without an obvious niche are likely to struggle, often getting passed over for 'Chads'.

The marketing issues you identify are up there with scarcity and laziness as 2 of the biggest problems in a lot of cases. Unrealistic expectations are logistical problems are smaller issues as I see them.

 

[CornbreadFed]

To the posters complaining about this post not being unique. Wake up call, 99% of dating advice is the same thing recycled over and over again. The goal of my topics to ensure meaningful discussion that doesn’t revolve around novice level dating issues or the typical help me save my girl thread where I only give you 50% of the situation.

You guys want a lot of night game/day game topics? Sorry, those aren’t my style and I much prefer the convenience of OLD.

 

[HaleyBaron]

To the posters complaining about this post not being unique. Wake up call, 99% of dating advice is the same thing recycled over and over again. The goal of my topics to ensure meaningful discussion that doesn’t revolve around novice level dating issues or the typical help me save my girl thread where I only give you 50% of the situation.

You guys want a lot of night game/day game topics? Sorry, those aren’t my style and I much prefer the convenience of OLD.

You're not the first to come here with this and certainly not the last. The problem with your thread is that you're jumping into the pool of sharks telling us how to find food. It's almost incredibly autistic if not outright egotistical af. As if you are trying to posture that your nuts are bigger than ours. It's cringe.

You also are unaware how stuff goes here because you continue to keep trying to shove your way into the dynamics of this forum. And instead of listening to the warnings, you are just downplaying everyone around you and saying you are right, which just makes you look worse already as a newbie. When I said sit and listen, I meant it to keep you from embarrassing yourself. You may be the biggest player on the planet, but you're not doing any favors acting like a big shot right out the gate.