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why I have difficulty believing in the increasing value with age myth

StevenR

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I am thinking about a conversation I had with an older woman recently and was just browsing the pages of Match once again and am reminded why I have difficulty believing it when I am told that a womans value goes down with age and a mans value goes up, men preserve their handsomeness better, etc. That may have used to be the case, or it was never true at all.

The other night an older woman, a previously married cougar basically, was telling me that women value younger men for the same reason that men value younger women, and that there is no difference in the way we think. She said just like men like firm skin, good looks and a hard body, women want the exact same thing in men. I asked her about why generally younger women used to marry older men, and she said that it is because in the old days women were more defendant on men financially and don't need to be any more.

They still want a man with money, of course, but they also want a young hard body now too. This woman is Asian and she is in excellent shape for her age. Even though I am younger than she is, I actually found it disheartening that she said these things because I figure that even though I may have squandered my youth, I can still be a cool rich older guy one day who can get chicks, like Sean Connery or something. I used to be re-assured that men keep their sex appeal longer than women do, and that it even goes up with age.

The second thing that makes me doubt the older man=higher value myth is that on match, I actually did the math on several pages of women aged 28-35, and they want a man between 7 years younger and 3 years older than themselves!

I would have thought considering traditional age differences it would have been the other way around. There are three explanations for this. One is that Match has a subset of women with cougar tendencies that are not representative of the world at large. Another possibility is that they are just restricting the upper age range more than they really would IRL just to keep guys 15-25 years older bombarding them with emails. The third and most disheartening is that this is indeed what most women have in their heads that they really want, and we men become just as unattractive to women as we age as women do to men.
 

guru1000

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You finally convinced us Steve. You are old and as a result will die a lonely old man.
 

horaholic

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You believe this crap?

I actually did the math on several pages of women aged 28-35, and they want a man between 7 years younger and 3 years older than themselves!
I dont know where you live, but I've always found the opposite of that.

Older men, have a HUGE advantage. Girls have ALWAYS gone for older men. Yes, there are occasions, where they date younger, but its only for a temporary good time. I have no idea where you're getting this info, but its incorrect.

The ONLY advantage a younger guy, has over on older guy is the younger guy is more in tune with the modern music, fashion, fads, etc. Every single guy I know, dates way younger than they. I only know a couple girls who date younger, and its usually just a fling.

I still get carded for cigarettes, and Im 32. That means, Im every bit as good looking as an 18 year old, with 14 more years of experience and maturity under my belt. Yes, I know I dont really look 18. Basically though, any guy between 23 and 40 is gonna look similar naked. I look better than I did, when I was 23. I know 45 year old guys that date 21 year old chicks. There is no vice versa though!

There is eventually a point where you turn into creepy 'old' guy if you hang out with a young crowd, but if you have any game, it doesnt matter. If you have real game, you're not creepy.

You're stressin over absolutely nothin, man. Have a young mindset, and you can connect with younger crowds.
 

Scaramouche

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Dear Steven,
I can assure you that ones RELATIVE value improves exponentially with age,hence the age gap that you can pull increases,said another way,at 40 years age your chance to pull a 20 year old is slim at best,at my age if I wanted to I could easily manage a 44 year old.....this all supposes of course that you can avoid accident or ill health,so there is an element of luck,being able to maintain a reasonable level of affluence helps too,as does keeping fit,slim and honing your social skills...last night I went Social dancing on my own,could easily have picked up a nice looking 46 year old or a passable 38 year old!....That's without trying as I have a nice girl already...
 

decades

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forget what women say and put on their profiles. match sucks anyway. statistics don't bear out your thesis. the fact is that after 40 women have much less sex which means they have much less opportunity for sex. you talked to some cougars. cougars are a fraction of the single women population. women don't care how old you are. they care how VALUABLE you are and I am not just talking net worth.
 

STR8UP

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This is exactly why you don't listen to a goddamned word that comes out of a woman's mouth.

I was talking to two women last night about male/female stuff, and I made a comment about how a man can use a woman's imagination to "lead her" in the direction he wants her to go.

In one breath they are vehemently denying this, telling me that men "only think they are leading a woman via her imagination", then in the next breath they are telling me about how crazy it makes them when they are expecting a guy to call and he doesn't call, and how they analyze every last word a guy says to find hidden meanings.

Essentially, if you want to drive a woman nuts and make her crazy for you all you have to do is not call when they expect you to and say off the wall sh!t.

Now I'm no rocket scientist, but if that isn't a contradiction I don't know what is.

Just goes to show how there is a huge disconnect between a woman's perception of reality, and of, well, REALITY.
 

ZenGodMod

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StevenR

You just spoke to a Cougar, with cougar mentality and self mystification cougar thought processing. What did you expect her to tell you?

Dependency on older men? Partly I'll agree with that, but women are not as shallow as you may think. Older men have got their Sh!t together. They know how to treat a women better, deal with women better and know when they are being bullsh!tted and state so with out starting domestic world world. This is the form of security older men offer.

Men like older women for the same reason as well. Visa Versa.

Now stop being worried about getting older. Your are your prime and will get primer!!
 

Tazman

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I've had a completely opposite experience. As I got older, I started getting vibes from chicks who were younger AND older. The younger ones are the chicks I wanted when I was in school but I wasn't high enough in the cool hierarchy to get them.

The girls in school who were with older guys loved to brag and talk about how much cooler they were.

I think part of it is that I started looking more like the guys in school who seemed to mature (physically) faster than I back then.

Aging has been a blessing for me.
 

mrRuckus

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There's a reason these women are on match. They're like 35 and think they can snag a 32 year old man easily

Delusional
 

Colossus

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STR8UP said:
Just goes to show how there is a huge disconnect between a woman's perception of reality, and of, well, REALITY.

Kind of a tangent, but there is actually a huge disparity between what physiologically turns women on (objective) and what women say turns them on (subjective).

There was an article in the NY Times magazine that focused on a researcher who has examined this in depth. Someone linked to it in a recent thread.

The article was really long, but in a nutshell the current evidence in this research niche is showing that there is seemingly very little connection between what a woman says makes her hot and what actually makes her hot. In one particular study they showed women various types of porn--M on W, M on M, W on W, even monkey on monkey---and measured their vaginal bloodflow response with a type of plethysmograph. The results were interesting: women of all reported orientations- straight, gay, bi--were turned on by every type of porn to varying degrees but rather small margins, at least compared to men.

Men, on the other hand, were actually aroused when they said they were aroused. In other words, the physiological response (erection) matched his reported preferences and subjective arousal level. Straight men were not turned on by gay porn...shocking.

So are these differences culturally or biologically-driven? The problem is that it is impossible to fully separate the two.

The article really bolstered the concept that women have 2 components of arousal-- the physiological and the psychological; which is no shock to most men.

The take-home messages of this research are not at all unfamiliar to us here at SS:

1. A woman's words, no matter how sweet, are largely meaningless. Her behavior belies the truth of her intent.

On that same note, women can (and will) remember every word you have ever said. When her own actions are called into question, she will call from her vast database of comments you made while blindingly drunk and use them as a weapon of insidious demoralization---because you probably dont remember ever saying that in the first place.

2. Not even women know what they want. It changes like the breeze. Dont waste your time trying to pin down some elusive secret--because there isnt one. Take care of yourself and they will come to you.
 

MikeEdward1973

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StevenR said:
The second thing that makes me doubt the older man=higher value myth is that on match, I actually did the math on several pages of women aged 28-35, and they want a man between 7 years younger and 3 years older than themselves!
I've probably gone on more Match dates than anyone on this board (I have two today, and one tomorrow), and I can tell you, unequivocally, that the stated 'preferred age' of women on there is irrelevant.

The only thing that happened on Match when I turned 36 was an increase in the response rate from the women I emailed. This was a bit of a surprise, but I can say for a fact that my pull has increased.
 

sodbuster

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I live in a smaller town, but my experience on match was comical. All the women there seemed to think they deserved the quality man they scored a 1 nighter with when he was drunk. 8's thinking they deserved 10's. One 40 yr old thought she needed a Millionaire who would move to Atlanta. WHY he would leave his buisiness and move there for her-her sense of entitlement. She couldn't believe a man like that could find better than her and not have to move.

Now, the women who hit on me had this sense of logic. He's a Dentist with 2 kids, 6'2", 240. I'm 5'2" weigh 240 and have 2 welfare kids-we match.
 

StevenR

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Tazman said:
I've had a completely opposite experience. As I got older, I started getting vibes from chicks who were younger AND older. The younger ones are the chicks I wanted when I was in school but I wasn't high enough in the cool hierarchy to get them.

The girls in school who were with older guys loved to brag and talk about how much cooler they were.

I think part of it is that I started looking more like the guys in school who seemed to mature (physically) faster than I back then.

Aging has been a blessing for me.
I think you are partially correct, women like older men to a certain point. From what I have seen on Match and talking to some real life women, 25-25 for a guy seems ideal, this is when a guy is at his peak. Both younger and older women like these men the most. Younger than 25 and he is still an immature kid, even for women his own age, older than 35 the average guy not only starts to lose his looks, but women also start wondering what is wrong with him if he has never been married. If he is not married they think it is odd, there must be something wrong with him or he is really immature, and if he has and/or has kids then in their minds he is a bitter old man with baggage. At 30 you would be in your prime, so from your perspective you are correct, from an average 45 year olds perspective I am not so sure.
 

StevenR

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mrRuckus said:
There's a reason these women are on match. They're like 35 and think they can snag a 32 year old man easily

Delusional
Your statement actually supports my point. You said they THINK they CAN, implying that they WANT to SNAG a younger man in his prime. That is my point exactly, if they had their way they don't want much older men.

MikeEdward1973 said:
I've probably gone on more Match dates than anyone on this board (I have two today, and one tomorrow), and I can tell you, unequivocally, that the stated 'preferred age' of women on there is irrelevant.

The only thing that happened on Match when I turned 36 was an increase in the response rate from the women I emailed. This was a bit of a surprise, but I can say for a fact that my pull has increased.
Interesting, I know that for a lot of women on their the cutoff age is 35 whether they are 25 or 33 or whatever. I wonder what the difference in the stated age preference vs. the age preference that they said they would go out with. I have had a few women email me recently, who were in their 20's, even though they say they will go with a guy up to 35 years but they sent the form letter on their "sorry, but I think our age differences are too great". The women in their early 20's that state they want a man younger, where I ignored what they put down as their upper age limit, won't even answer me at all, so I came to the conclusion they meant what they said about age requirements.
 

Mr. Me

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You're having this discussion with the Asian woman you want to bang? I'd like to point out that this is not the stuff you talk about with women you want to bed.

>> here are three explanations for this. >>

There's this: that sites like match force the user to set a specific age range and that's what you're seeing. However, their personal parameter may be wider. And maybe other factors can be more of a priority then age.

I can think of a number of times, as an alleged "older man" (ha ha ha it's so stupidly stereotypical it's funny) I've hooked up with women 7 years younger, 12 years younger, 18 years younger, 25 years younger, even 32 years younger. Just had a date the other night with a hot cutie about 9 years younger. I'm not bragging, just pointing out that if you take care of yourself, and women like you, that can trump age difference.

They don't even have to know your age anyway when you just start dating. Just last night, I was talking to a guy I know, who met his wife a few years ago when he was 42 and she was 27 and she told him she didn't date guys older then 34. She didn't know his age, but she was enjoying his company. He just kept kidding her every time she asked his age with "how old do I have to be?". They dated a little and she pressed again and he told her point blank, "look, if you love being with me, then what does it matter what my age is?" He told her his age. He was everything she was looking for in a guy, except for his age. She decided she wanted to be with him.

>>The second thing that makes me doubt the older man=higher value myth>>

Yeah, you know, you called this thread "the increasing value with age myth" but it's not a myth, so you're really starting with a false premise. Me, personally, I get better looking every day.
 

Jeffst1980

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Age may matter on an online dating form, but it doesn't matter much in the real world, at least not for quality women. A cougar that is looking for a baby-faced college kid is hardly a "quality woman."

What matters is not your age, but how you present yourself. If you're in your 40's, unemployed and living with your parents, you're gonna be judged harshly. If you're in your 40's and a CEO, you're going to have a lot more options.

You can be 40+ and still be "hip," but in this case, "hip" doesn't mean trying to present yourself as a younger guy and imitating their fashions and trends. The older guys that younger girls go for are ones that exhibit the maturity you'd expect from someone of their age, but with the energy and ambition of a younger man. These guys don't get ruffled by s#it tests, they always control the frame, and they make the younger generations qualify themselves to THEM, rather than the other way around.

If you're in your 30's and above, you should be dressing well when you go out--no excuses, it's not that hard, and is the single most effective way to communicate value instantaneously. You should be comfortable enough to socialize with people of all age groups and have at least some cultural interests other than beer, football, and videogames. At the same time, you want to retain all the good stuff about youth--being passionate about your pursuits, having a good sense of humor, and maintaining a sense of wonder about the world. You shouldn't "get old," you should "improve with age."

Don't fret about wrinkles/gray hair/lost hair; that stuff REALLY doesn't matter to girls. A man is not judged on how pretty he is, only how he makes a girl FEEL. An older guy can EASILY get a younger woman excited just by being in a position of perceived authority. Throw in a great personality and a gym membership, and that guy will have it made.

I would say that for the most part older guys shouldn't waste their time with girls under 25. They aren't mature enough or ready to give up the party scene and will usually drag you into their stupid games and make you look bad. If you go for girls younger than 25, be sure to count out a relationship from the getgo.

I'm actually looking forward to being a few years older, because even at 28 I'm a bit young and unestablished for girls 25-29, which I think are the best demographic. However, the last 2 years I mopped the floor with college aged girls. Girls in their mid- to late- twenties I actually found to be better in every respect--they are more sexually available, cause less drama, and have much more in common with me. And--given the horrible diet and lack of exercise most college girls exhibit--the (slightly) older girls are hotter.
 

STR8UP

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Colossus said:
Kind of a tangent, but there is actually a huge disparity between what physiologically turns women on (objective) and what women say turns them on (subjective).

There was an article in the NY Times magazine that focused on a researcher who has examined this in depth. Someone linked to it in a recent thread.
I read that entire article. Good stuff. Just goes to reinforce the idea that words are a completely useless way to size up a woman. The really interesting thing though is that the article helps support my theory that all women are at least "bi curious". Not sure what to make of the monkey sex findings though......
 

MikeEdward1973

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StevenR said:
Interesting, I know that for a lot of women on their the cutoff age is 35 whether they are 25 or 33 or whatever.
You're confused. The problem isn't your age. With all due respect, it's you, and the way you present and project yourself.
 

MikeEdward1973

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Jeffst1980 said:
If you're in your 30's and above, you should be dressing well when you go out--no excuses, it's not that hard, and is the single most effective way to communicate value instantaneously. You should be comfortable enough to socialize with people of all age groups and have at least some cultural interests other than beer, football, and videogames. At the same time, you want to retain all the good stuff about youth--being passionate about your pursuits, having a good sense of humor, and maintaining a sense of wonder about the world. You shouldn't "get old," you should "improve with age."

Don't fret about wrinkles/gray hair/lost hair; that stuff REALLY doesn't matter to girls. A man is not judged on how pretty he is, only how he makes a girl FEEL. An older guy can EASILY get a younger woman excited just by being in a position of perceived authority. Throw in a great personality and a gym membership, and that guy will have it made.

I would say that for the most part older guys shouldn't waste their time with girls under 25. They aren't mature enough or ready to give up the party scene and will usually drag you into their stupid games and make you look bad. If you go for girls younger than 25, be sure to count out a relationship from the getgo.
Steven, read this over and over.
 
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