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Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

pipeman84

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the smart guys nowadays read books by Jordan peterson
I read his book, 12 rules, a few years back, don't remember it as being memorable. Since he's grown in popularity, I don't understand his appeal...he's a wreck (only eats meat, went insane for a few years and went to Russia for treatment) who looks like life has defeated him and always seems angry/upset. Moreover, his daughter is a single mom. :rolleyes:
 

mikedee

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Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.
What a bunch of loosers
 

HaleyBaron

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eli77

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I just said it.
I guess that depends on how you measure success he has an awesome family he's managed to beat his demons kind of like robert downey jr has met with several celebrities who adore him and has managed to accomplish this all after the age of 40 I mean any guy that gets across from Joe rogan bill maher and some of the world's greatest soccer players can't be all that bad
 

eli77

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Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.
When did neil denounce
 

SW15

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When did neil denounce

Gen X baby. When you don't have a participation trophy culture, you can get a lot of **** done.
It is so crazy to think that the Millennials who grew up receiving participation trophies as part of the 1990s/early 2000s self esteem building culture in the schools are now old enough to have their own kids in elementary school or even junior high. However, a lot of Millennials aren't having kids for a variety of reasons. They'll always have their participation trophies though.
 
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BillyPilgrim

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It is so crazy to think that the Millennials who grew up receiving participation trophies as part of the 1990s/early 2000s self esteem building culture in the schools are now old enough to have their own kids in elementary school or even junior high. However, a lot of Millennials aren't having kids for a variety of reasons. They'll always have their participation trophies though.
What you have described is the classic Illuminati/Deep state/Luciferian M.O. Create a problem (destroy the nuclear family) and offer a seeming solution (participation trophies in lieu of active parenting) that ensures the resulting situation is worse than the original one.
 

BillyPilgrim

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SW15

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Create a problem (destroy the nuclear family) and offer a seeming solution (participation trophies in lieu of active parenting) that ensures the resulting situation is worse than the original one.
During the late 1980s and 1990s, my mom heard of some participation trophy stuff and thought it was total shiit. Good for her!

Participation trophies are total shiit!

Boomer parenting of Millennials was complete shiit too.

The 1990s era school/parenting emphasis on self-esteem development was a disaster. Both public and private education in the 1990s were a joke. The sad thing is that both K-12 schooling has gotten worse since the 1990s/early 2000s.

Pickup artists might be better educators than actual school teachers.
 

Guitar_Whizz

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I believe they ended up messed up psychologically because PUA is not based on being honest or authentic. Instead, it's based on developing a fake persona, using fake routines, techniques, tactics, etc and essentially lying to women. They're hiding their true selves and their true romantic/sexual intent with women instead of being authentic and direct with women.

This eventually eats away at their soul, manifesting itself as some form of psychological problems.

The 2nd reason they end up messed up is because they don't have any purpose in life beyond 'PUA, which ultimately is not a deeply fulfilling existence. They base their 'happiness' on how well they're doing with women, which is not healthy for their state of mind.

I believe at the core we all yearn to be our authentic self and to have a purpose in life beyond merely picking up women.

This is one reason I left the whole indirect PUA stuff alone years ago. It was fun for a while, but ultimately left me feeling empty, fake and unfulfilled. I decided to switch to an honest, direct and authentic way of approaching and interact with women as well as focus on goals which make me fell fulfilled in life.

This is what why I believe Neil Strauss eventually denounced PUA and his fake persona 'Style'. He wanted to be more authentic and life a more fulfilling life than the path of being a PUA.

It's also the reason the 'PUA community itself is essentially dead. Ultimately it could not last forever because it was not built on a foundation of honestly or authenticity. Eventually the guys who got into PUA realised this and yearned for a deeper existence beyond being a PUA.
 

SW15

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This is one reason I left the whole indirect PUA stuff alone years ago. It was fun for a while, but ultimately left me feeling empty, fake and unfulfilled.

This is what why I believe Neil Strauss eventually denounced PUA and his fake persona 'Style'. He wanted to be more authentic and life a more fulfilling life than the path of being a PUA.
Before Roosh converted to Christianity, he had noted feelings of emptiness as a seducer.

Neil Strauss denounced PUA during his marriage, which eventually ended. Neil Strauss has been a bit of mess, going from a borderline incel to a top seducer, to a married guy, to a divorced guy. It also doesn't help that he's a 5'6" guy.
 

Isildur1

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Was Tom torero’s death as unexpected? He basically lost his income , PayPal account blocked and YouTube channel deleted all in a short space of time . He had depression problems in the so the the impact of that and losing everything is probably what pushed him over the edge I’m guessing.
 

Isildur1

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During the late 1980s and 1990s, my mom heard of some participation trophy stuff and thought it was total shiit. Good for her!

Participation trophies are total shiit!

Boomer parenting of Millennials was complete shiit too.

The 1990s era school/parenting emphasis on self-esteem development was a disaster. Both public and private education in the 1990s were a joke. The sad thing is that both K-12 schooling has gotten worse since the 1990s/early 2000s.

Pickup artists might be better educators than actual school teachers.
I learnt more about psychology from Tom Torero than I did most books I read . Ironically Tom himself was a schoolteacher
 

BackInTheGame78

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Because most of them do this stuff for the wrong reasons or to "hide" their deep insecurities.

You can't fix something that's broken by trying to avoid it and focus on something else.
 

Solomon

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Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.
From having met people on this forum and other forums guys who have major issues tend to project those issues in regards to women. When women aren't the main issue at all. Take myself for example at 24 years old yes my love life was not what I wanted it to be but I had issues with money, self-esteem etc. I worked low-paying jobs at that time and pick-up gave me a fantasy to escape my mundane life. Needless to say sticking your Johnson in everything doesn't leave you happy unless you address the root of your problem

Most guys even now issue is not women but something else whether it's mental health, finances, personality disorder, past trauma etc. Yes some guys really don't have any major issues and learning some things helps them. There is one guy on this forum he used the advice left and now married to a gorgeous woman.

Anyone who has had some success in game will tell you eventually banging a bunch of women gets old and even feels empty eventually you want more (Neil got married, Roosh found God, heck even Mystery had a child and steady relationship at one time)
 
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AmsterdamAssassin

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You have to really love women to not burn-out on your 'conquests'.

Most PUA are misogynist (or became misogynist through PUA) and that will make sex as valuable as the bimbo you porked.
 

Isildur1

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Because most of them do this stuff for the wrong reasons or to "hide" their deep insecurities.

You can't fix something that's broken by trying to avoid it and focus on something else.
disagree to some extent when you look at someone like Tom Torero's life he did daygame in over 30 nations and released lots of decent podcasts that really helped my dating life. He led by example - but I get a good chunk of pua coaches have issues but who doesn't . Who is more of a loser ? The guy who works a 9-5 , has no options then gets divorced and loses everything or a bum who sleeps with women on the regular who at least isn't in a scarcity mind with women. For all the hate pua get- at least these guys were being somewhat proactive about their problems even if a lot of them failed they still tried which the majority of men don't even do . PUA coaches do a lot of good of course there are bad ones, there are bad workers in every industry on earth but they did have a net benefit in my eyes.
 

BackInTheGame78

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disagree to some extent when you look at someone like Tom Torero's life he did daygame in over 30 nations and released lots of decent podcasts that really helped my dating life. He led by example - but I get a good chunk of pua coaches have issues but who doesn't . Who is more of a loser ? The guy who works a 9-5 , has no options then gets divorced and loses everything or a bum who sleeps with women on the regular who at least isn't in a scarcity mind with women. For all the hate pua get- at least these guys were being somewhat proactive about their problems even if a lot of them failed they still tried which the majority of men don't even do . PUA coaches do a lot of good of course there are bad ones, there are bad workers in every industry on earth but they did have a net benefit in my eyes.
Depends on where you obtain value in your life. If your only means of obtaining value in your life is by banging women, that's about the biggest loser possible.

Women should only be a part of your life as a man. A much smaller part than many make them. However like anything else, a long term lack in one area leads to placing a much larger importance on it than you otherwise would once you obtain it and it turns into an almost obsession.
 
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