why cheating hurts the cheater most

joekerr31

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hey guys,

been thinking about the dynamics of cheating. thought id throw some thoughts out here.

I believe (at the risk of being attacked by various DJs) that cheating is the actions of a weak person (male or female) and that ultimately the person hurt most is the person who did the cheating.

We all have a sense of self. this relates to our self esteem. when you have low self esteem you will engage in amoral behaviors and/or let people abuse you.

people with high self esteem / respect, place a high value on what they think of themselves, more so than what others think of them.

Cheating inherently requires lying. Moreover it requires that you lie to someone in the most intimate of lies. that you take what is absolutely most prescious to them (the trust that they have entrusted to you) and you abuse it.

it is impossible to do this without fully embracing a "dog eat dog" outlook on life - every (wo)man for themselves.

by embracing this philosophy however you cut your own throat. Once you adopt this mentality you then will live your life as a parasite, always in it for what you can get out of it. and the only people who will put up with that are people with a similar outlook. which then destroys any hope for a loving relationship.

now, most cheaters have a million excuses as to why they cheated. its easy to rationalize why you had to do something. but really it comes down to just two things:

1) you are weak
2) you don't think much of yourself

because any strong man or woman who held themselves in high regard, would do the right thing and end a relationship before pursuing another.

the reality is people cheat because they are afraid to lose the person they are with. sounds kind of paradoxic doesn't it, since cheating is exactly what will make them lose the person they are with.

but the reality is that they very much want to be with the person they are with, but because they are weak and don't think much of themselves that one person's attention (or lack of attention during a rough spot) isn't enough for them. so they seek out additional attention.

but look at the paradigm that gets created. they dig their whole 10x deeper.

- they already thought less of themselves, and now feel ever less because now they are a liar and cheat
- the relationship they want (becuase remember, they'd leave if they truly didn't want it) is now a big lie


I think most cheaters are people in a great deal of pain (probably in denial as well) who are so focused on themselves thta they lose any sense of regard for anyone's welfare around them.

i think life offers us many tests along the way in life. I think ultimately the point of life is to think well of yourself above all else. and to do so i think you have to stick to your principles regardless.

So when the chasier gives you back too much change, you let her know. becuase you know at the end of her shift the till will come up short and thats coming out of her pocket.

And it means that when you are in a relationship with someone and you aren't feeling loved, you leave. You don't go banging someone to make yourself feel like you matter. And you don't blame the person you are cheating on for not making you feel good. At the end of the day its your responsibility to make yourself feel good about yourself - and sometimes that means leaving a relationship.

So yes, i think a LOT of people in this world are susceptible to cheating becuase a LOT of people in this world are weak, confused, irresponsible and have very little value or regard of themselves. And many like to think of themselves as victims.

most of men's problems on this board are becaue they think of themselves as a victim - as though they can't walk away from a woman. and thats the exact same kind of thinking that mena nd women use to cheat. I can't walk away therefore I better get some attention on the side.

YOu can always walk away, and provided you've made an effort ot make things work only the WEAK man or woman stays in a bad relationship and/or cheats.


I think i've put this topic to bed in my mind. Would love to hear what you guys think of my views.

I'm sure many will tear into them with the argument that its in our nature not to cheat. Personally, i think the whole biology argument is a load of bull.

my biology says that if i need to take a dump to take a dump, but you don't see me pulling off my pants on the bus and crapping on the seat beside some little old lady.

sorry. i think cheating comes down to being weak of character and lacking self respect and value.

J
 

tomzel

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joekerr31 you are absolutely right. I was married for 7 years to a beautiful woman when I had an affair with a co-worker who is also married. The affair was exilirating but it has left me with a horrible guilty conscience. It is true that I wanted more attention from my wife...the cheatee was willing to give me that. In hindsight I thought I could get away with it and still stay married (the preverbial having your cake and eating it too). Well as it turns out she felt abandoned by me and ended up finding another guy even though she never knew. I ended up getting divorced, but never told my ex wife...I didn't want to hurt her, even though I already had. It's a tough thing fellas to feel like you've created your own hell.

To this day, I have a hard time with relationships. Look at my past posts and you can see that. I have trouble trusting people (you'd think it'd be the other way around) and because of that I get insecure by the smallest things. Any guy out there who thinks he can cheat with someone and walk away is sadly mistaken....it leaves deep scars.
 

WestCoaster

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Always better to separate

I've been cheated on by a gf, not fun at all. I would've rather had the gal just dump my sorry AFC (at the time) a$$ and then move on.

For married dudes, I'd hate to give advice since I haven't been married. My guess is it's best to:

1. Try and work things out
2. Get marriage counseling
3. If 1 and 2 don't work out, separate
4. If you're so horny and need someone, be separated and/or divorced, but don't be with that person.

IMO the reason people cheat is they don't have the nads (or ovaries) to stand up and say, "I don't want to be together anymore" so they do things on the sly. Confrontation -- i.e. being a man -- is a tough thing, that's why women cheat more. Women hate confrontation. Instead of breakup they'd rather just drift away or cheat.

Whenever men cheat, they are becoming puss-fied, IMO. Be a man.
 

WestCoaster

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Tomzel, you're owning up, a good thing. Not trying to excuse the behavior, but you probably weren't given good messages from our overly-sexed, highly unethical society (that is if you live in the U.S.), and perhaps a parent didn't tell you that was wrong.

Or perhaps the sparks/passion just took off and you caved in. At least you realize it now.

One thing that is ignored in our society is teaching men how to be men. Part of being a man is confrontation, walking away, separating, or breaking up.

Some of my (AFC) friends said they are "shocked" at how quick I walk away from women when things aren't working out, and how I've broken some hearts along the way and so forth. You know what? I have broken some hearts, and my heart has been broken. It's part of living. However, with the women I've told it's not going to work out was for the benefit of me and the woman. We weren't going to work out, so why exist in misery?

I'd rather take my heartache upfront than parcelled out for a longer period of time.
 

tomzel

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I do live in the US...my parents did teach me better than that. I can't even blame it on the female...she flirted, but I definitely persued her. The point is, that it comes back on you 10X over. It just isn't worth it.
 

tomzel

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One other thing that I've learned from this....I have just gotten back in the dating scene. If you have issues that haunt you like this....no matter how well you THINK you are hiding them, women can smell that sh1t a mile away.
 

joekerr31

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its always always always about low self esteem.

people with low self esteem don't think about how they think about themselves.

sounds confusing, but if you don't care what YOU think about YOU, then all kinds of crazy sh*t seems like a good idea.

its always about attention (which is needed to make your esteem feel better).

no one in their right mind would cheat if they had high self esteem. when you have high self esteem you feel great about yourself, why would you watn to ruin that by doing something sh*tty like cheating.

I've seen posts on here with guys saying that cheating is good - it makes their relationship better. no, their relationship sucks to begin with and cheating just covers that up. they are too weak to walk away and find a real woman.

tomzel, good for you for owning up to it all man. the first step towards fixing your life or living an enjoyable life is taking responsibility for yoru actions.

too many people pawn off responsibility on someone else ..

I cheated cuz my gf's vagina smells bad.

i hit her becuase she called me a loser

i got a DUI cuz the cops want to ruin my life

blah blah blah

you cheat because you didn't ahv ethe balls to leave your gf (leave her and its not cheating and you get what you want)

you hit her becuase you can't control your temper (regardless of what shes done)

you got a DUI cuz you drank and then drove.


Being a man is about taking responsibility for your life, even if other people have given you all the reasons in the world not to.

tomzel, congrats on doing that.
:up:
 

joekerr31

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Originally posted by tomzel
One other thing that I've learned from this....I have just gotten back in the dating scene. If you have issues that haunt you like this....no matter how well you THINK you are hiding them, women can smell that sh1t a mile away.

only the good women can ;)

the messed up ones have so much sh*t of their own they don't even notice it. they are much more focused on getting what they want (attention) than on the quality of person they are getting it from.

hence the old saying, getting a woman is easy (there are TONS of attention-starved women out there). Getting a good one and keeping her is harder - but actually its quite easy IF you are a quality man.

more focus should be given to become a quality man over simply picking up chics. anyone can picks up chics with a little effort.

J
 

joekerr31

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and if we really want to throw in a matrix type twist....


some women can tell you're a good man when you can't!!

haha. it was only until the past few years that i realized just how great a guy i am. i could never understand why woman wanted to marry me so badly after being together for 6 months.

thanks in part to this board I now know why.

BUT, i had trust issues that kept me from meeting their needs. which is ok, live and learn. the next one that comes around thats a keeper ill be in good shape for.

J
 

newbie81

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Originally posted by WestCoaster

One thing that is ignored in our society is teaching men how to be men. Part of being a man is confrontation, walking away, separating, or breaking up.
Good post.

I was wondering, little off topic though.

Does a responsible man needs to give the woman he leaved an explanation for breaking up?

My experience tells me that whatever you will say, even if it's the thruth & you tell her respectfully, she'll probably won't understand & be mad because of you ending the relationship.

On the other side, I think if you have a serious relationship (and I don't mean in time), you owe her this respect.

I think best would be to just tell her it's over, without an explanation.


(I have never ended a relationship, I'm currently in a 7month relationship where I sometimes wonder if I should continue, my gf is a carrier oriented feminist :D while I'm ultra-domineering , lots of arguments...)
 

insidious

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This is truly a thread after my own heart.

I am a Cheater. It's like being an alcoholic. If you ever were, you always will be. I believe I've overcome (or at least faced) the shortcomings inherent to my personality which led me to cheat on my wife of 7 years.

Get this - we divorced and I think the first step I took in the right direction was then splitting with my lover. It broke her heart but I realized it was the only correct and honest thing to do. It hurt like hell. I loved her, I was devoted to her, but that same person, the old me, was the same person who cheated on his own wife, who lied 24/7 in order to lead a life he didn't even know he wanted.

In essence, I chose to lose Everything, my wife, my family, my lover, in order to start anew. And here I am. Meeting girls here and there, nothing serious, but I've embarked on a whole new era in my life in which I've taken pride in myself, pride which I never knew. Sometimes being alone is necessary, but you'd never know it by seeing how many people stay in pathetic relationships just to avoid being "alone."
 

RipItOff

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Ah Cheating

Being a cheater is based on your frame. You can get away with it if you are fully committed to not feeling guilty about the other persons feelings.
Now for all those that would attack me for saying the truth: I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong. Personally, I've been on both sides. I can tell you though that each time I have cheated it was never worth it.
 

joekerr31

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growing up is hard, most people put it off until after they are dead.

;)
 

STR8UP

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I had a similar discussion awhile back with one of my friends.

I asked him if it is better to cheat or be cheated on. We both agreed that the cheater is simply trading a long term benefit (mainly a clear conscience) for a short term gain (whatever satisfaction they receive from cheating). So it is better to be cheated on than to cheat on someone else.

The thing is, your post didn't distinguish between male and female cheaters. What you wrote is more applicable to women, since they are more likely to cheat to find emotional satisfaction, whereas a man is more likely to cheat for physical pleasure.

So yea, if you are talking about women exclusively, I agree. When it comes to men it's a bit different.
 

Heretolearn

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Awesome thread as per usual Mr J and the everyone else!

I agree with Joekerr in theory. However, my issue is the assumption that things in this world have a logical explanation and a BETTER or WORSE.

As in people cheat because of x

Cheating is bad or cheating is good.


I guess religion, values etc can tell you what is better or worse.

Ultimately though it is the person who determines if their life was good. This requires maturity.

BY MY VALUES
-------------------

Thus if someone was absolutely mature and cheated for their own reason as that is what they want in life then I could understand it for them.

NOT FOR ME.

Ultimately I believe that is a life of 'empty pleasure'

I know some couples 'swing' and have open relationships.

NOT FOR ME

Why, because I feel the more energy spent on extra things the less being spent on:
a) the person themselves
b) the other person in the relationship
c) the family if it exists.


Conclusion
---------------
I think it best to develop your own morals, values and maturity.

This requires a lot of time and energy but is different for everyone.

I do not know the roadmap for anyone else but cheating is not in my future!

* Also, for a twist, how do you define cheating?

- I am by nature a very friendly flirtatious guy (not by trying or touching just by making jokes and smiling a lot). I have lunch with girls often whilst I am in a relationship. I would draw the line if any of them did more than flirt back or if my partner had a reasonable explanation as to why my behaviour adversely affected her.

I still do not consider the above cheating though whereas others may.

*some cultures are VERY touchy feely as in kissing friends - is that cheating?
 

joekerr31

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yendor, good poitn on defining cheating...

I suppose it really depends on the parties involved in the relationship and the stage of commitment that the relationship is at, as well as the perception on cheating of the two inividuals.

but as a general rule physical intimacy (kissing, groping, an*l sex, etc.) is clear cut cheating.

on the emotional side of cheating, thats hard to determine. generally speaking i don't think you can nail that part down, becuase it all depends on the persons intentions. i also think its the non-verbal communication on this side of things that determines whether a person is cheating or not.

like your gf might see a guy friend and say "hey, how ya doing" and give him a hug - not cheating.

she might see a guy friend, smile, stare down at the sidewalk, look back up at him, say "hey, how ya doing. i really miss us hanging out. you got a girlfriend?" (this is assume you aren't around)

its not cheating - but you got a woman who is looking to either dump her current bf OR is open to some on the side action.

So i think the only time you can call someone a cheater is when they have actually cheated - ie. been physically intimate with someone else.

J
 

Heretolearn

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Originally posted by joekerr31


like your gf might see a guy [or girl (added)] friend and say "hey, how ya doing" and give him a hug - not cheating.


J
What if the above happened EXCEPT she also has a crush on the guy or girl and is strongly attracted to him or her?

What if she would jump him or her in a moment if she knew she owuld be successful?

Ultimately to me, things external to yourself are VERY hard to define, judge and ESPECIALLY make rules for.

Also, cheating hurts the person most = who lets it hurt them.

Everyone is different some people will respond differently. The two guys on this board who have admitted they cheated I hope that the cheating did not Hurt them.............in the longterm.

They have served their short term prison sentences - their minds.

Longterm though, it is up to everyone in this world to make the most of their lives. Whether they cheater or were cheated on. We all have our demons they just come in different shapes and sizes.
 
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