Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Why bother getting married anymore??

Colossus

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FutureSpartan said:
Meh, you make it seem as if my rant is motivated by some belief that "all the good women are gone" or some bitter crap like that.

I just personally find marriage to be a raw deal regardless of who it is you marry. When you have an anti-male, anti-father legal system, and then you see the vast number of divorced and unhappily unmarried couples...I could care less if the woman was an angel sent from heaven.

If she believes that "eternal love" can only be legitimized by the authority of the state, then I am running for the hills.

I actually don't disagree with you. Western marriage is largely an institution that benefits women and is a losing bet for men, statistically speaking. As long as men go into it being fully aware of the implications and limitations, a lot of pitfalls can be averted.

I think if you want have kids, this is best done within marriage. Single parents can raise good kids, but it is much better to raise kids in a loving family with mom AND dad.

The problem I have is when guys say it is always bad, or having a gf is never a good idea...this is just dumb. These things aren't bad in and of themselves, just in relation to the people being considered.
 

GQ_Confidence_1

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It's not necessarily the concept of marriage, but what kind of life are you going to have with her?

-Are you going to stay in the same area for 10-20-30 years? Are you going to enjoy where you live, or are you going to bounce around every 2-3-4 years?

-In our parents generation, it was easy, they both had 30 year employment, lived in the same house, for maybe 10-20 years or longer.

What kind of work schedule are you two going to have? Are you going to have enough time to see each other?

-Not only do you get married to one woman, then the negative factors, but on top of that, theres this uncertainty factor. Are you going to have enough time to see your kids?

Unless you're set financially, making $50-75 k or more, and you're established where you live, I think its crazy, its like a double or triple negative.

I know people that have gotten married in their early 20's (living in a big city like LA), I think its absolute insanity.

A. They havent met anyone.
B. High financial uncertainty.
C. So young, they haven't experienced much else.

Everyone has to live their life, but I would much rather wait until I was 35, have made some money, am established, have traveled, have maybe dated women or gone out with women on several continents, then think about marriage. Doing it from your early 20's, man. How many of those couples will still be married in 20 years? I think, very few.
 

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Yanky

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fuzzx said:
I'm not scared and I don't buy into the SS\media hype of relationships being afc or people losing freedom. How many of you waste your time looking for new women to have sex with who is usually un-dateable to start with? I bet a lot of you that are AGAINST MARRIAGE are probably single living at home with mum and dad or bitter old peter pans that have frolicked with american *****s for too long.
What you just did there is called shaming language. You've just said anybody who disagrees with your viewpoint does so because they can't get a woman. Think long and hard about whom such a statement benefits and who it does not. That is something that women do, why have you absorbed it as a tactic?

You misunderstand the men who are opposed to marriage.

By opposing marriage as it currently stands these men are actually FOR marriage. They are for societal marriage, which is the natural union that you are talking about. But marriage as we have it now in the west is not natural marriage, it has become corrupted by terrible laws that are heavily favored towards women. This isn't delusional or negative but is actually reality, go look up divorce statistics, alimony and child support statistics and ask why any man would take that chance?


No one is against families, love, children and all of that. What we are against are the laws and ideas that make a man a potential indentured servant for the majority of his life post marriage and divorce.

It's fine to talk about the wonderful thinks brought by marriage and I agree with your sentiments but unfortunately I've already witnessed the other side of marriage.

It consists of sexless marriages, being pushed to work, work, work, by the wife so that money can be spent on expensive junk and bigger houses, not being allowed to pursue any dreams or joys (with the threat of divorce used as a bargaining chip), being divorced for no apparent reason other than the whim of the wife, having the house you paid for along with the children you love being taken away, being forced to stay in the same job until alimony and child support payments are finished, going from a 5 bedroom house to a one room apartment because so much of your wages are used to pay ex wife.

Worst of all is finding out that the woman you thought you had found "love" with has only seen you as a farmer sees a donkey. A farmer certainly "loves" what a donkey can do, but he does not love the donkey.

I already know that people will respond with the idea that you should simply choose women more carefully, and I agree but the problem is a human being in not a static thing, if your great girl changes her mind in the course of your lifetime together than you're still screwed. None of us can seen into the future and the risk of being wrong is way too high.

I'm all for being positive but it's important to see reality for what it is when the stakes are so high.

You brought up foreign women who certainly can be very different from western women but again the problem isn't the women it is the law/agreement of marriage and divorce. A foreign women who comes to live in the west can easily see the benefits of 'using' her husband as the law is on her side. She may be pure coming over but god help you if she makes friends with western women, as we all know how much girls value the opinion of their girlfriends.

Here is an article about Japanese women deciding to look for husbands because the economy is down and they want more money.
[link]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aoh23J2YSp8A&refer=japan[/link]

The joke is that it is men who are the romantics who think of love and such, the women are FAR more practical.
It is time for us men to think more practically about love, which is what the OP is doing.

Us men who rail against the governments definition of marriage (false marriage) do so BECAUSE we believe in it (real marriage) not because we do not.
 

f283000

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FINDING A GOOD WIFE IS NOT LIKE BUYING A CAR!

Men now a days know how to buy a good car, what features to look for in buying a car that will last a lot, but unfortunately when it comes to women they don't know jack S@$%$#. They don't know what qualities a woman needs to be a good wife unlike how they do know what features makes a good car.

When it comes to a woman they only analyze women like if they were analyzing how good a car is by judging the exterior (does the car look nice? does it have rims? = good looking woman, nice face, boobs, nice a$$$ etc)

The exterior of a car isn't what matters to see if the car is good and neither does the exterior of a woman when it comes to being a good wife. Does she know how to cook and clean and is she willing to cook and clean? is she humble? loyal? moral? recognize you as the leader, take your commands etc etc, just a few qualities that determine if a woman would be a good wife and a good mother.

unfortunately women that make good wives are all but extinct in western countries so it is advisable that you avoid marriage unless they are foreign born women from more traditional countries.

Nobody is saying you should stop dating women and just get married. I am just defending marriage cause it can be a wonderful thing only if the guy isn't a dumba$$$ that doesn't know if he is getting a good deal or not with the woman he is marrying. Guys know how to buy cars, but when it comes to finding a good mate for a long lasting marriage they don't know S@#%@#

forget all the feminist brainwashing you have been brainwashed with. Marriage is not about finding someone you want to be your equal, it is about having a woman that is willing to serve you. This is how it was for thousands of years till the feminists took over. This is how it is still in many countries around the world except western countries.

WANT TO KNOW THE SECRET?

THE SECRET = FIND A WOMAN THAT PUTS YOU AS #1 AND IS WILLING TO SERVE YOU. THERE ARE STILL WOMEN LIKE THAT AROUND, YOU JUST HAVE TO FIND THEM, DON'T SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS IN A POTENTIAL MARRIAGE PARTNER!

PU$$Y IS HARD TO COME BY

Another problem obviously is that pu$$y is really hard to come by for most guys and if they find a girl they like they are afraid to look for something better. I mean guys know the faults their girls have and they know this b|tch wouldn't make a good mother, but damn she is good looking and she likes me and i might not get something as good as this so might as well tie this one up in marriage right??

just keep f%%#$%3 her and having her as your gf but just don't make the mistake of marrying a woman that doesn't have the qualities of a wife. Marriage should be about finding the 1 woman you can't live without that is as perfect as you will ever find and will lead to a life of happyness, not a possible divorce in the future. Might as well date a thousand b|tches and never get married.

thats the mentality a lot of guys have. They don't settle for the best possible but for the good thing they currently have.

JUST KEEP DATING THEM

I'm not saying only go for women of those qualities that make a good wife because frankly if you live in a western country those type of women are all but extinct except for the few females that are immigrants from more traditional countries and those are taken quick by the smart guys that know a good thing when they see one and aren't fooled by their home born b|tches.
 

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Bass-Turd

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Why use Failures to set a standard?

I prefer to Idealize the men and women who work hard and have value in their marriage, who realize what it means to be committed to a person. who love each other and know how important their relationship is

Not the dipsh1ts who get married and then divorce 2 years later. not the 40% who don't even follow through with the vows they made on their wedding day

what kind of example is that to follow and except as ok? not mine

Marriage ain't the problem. It's the people who make bad choices that cause problems, just like anything else
 

STR8UP

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Colossus said:
I think if you want have kids, this is best done within marriage. Single parents can raise good kids, but it is much better to raise kids in a loving family with mom AND dad.
You don't have to be husband and wife to be a mommy and daddy.
 
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Marriage is outdated and is not useful like it was pre-feminism

people (both men and women) have evolved, but marriage has not evolved, and pushing a contract such as marriage on people in the 21st century is almost certain failure - it has been proven!!

do YOU know ANYONE who got married more than 2 years ago but less than 10 years ago who is happily married?

And I know there are exceptions to the rule, but you can't just ignore the rule!!!
 

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Michele l'Arcangelo

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The Logical Player said:
do YOU know ANYONE who got married more than 2 years ago but less than 10 years ago who is happily married?

But, just incase you name a bunch of people off the top of your head, I'll make this disclaimer:
And I know there are exceptions to the rule, but you can't just ignore the rule!!!
Fixed.
 

Bible_Belt

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STR8UP said:
You don't have to be husband and wife to be a mommy and daddy.

From a parenting perspective, maybe, but from a legal perspective, if you knock a b!tch up, you might as well marry her. The only exception is if you have money, and in that case she should sign a pre-nup first (but only if you have money - most people don't).

If you knock up a girlfriend without marrying her, she will get court-ordered support simply by filling out the form. Most guys think that if they have to pay support, then they must get visitation rights simply because they are paying. But in terms of the legal process, they are separate proceedings. If you are not married, you have to petition the court to give you visitation rights. If you don't, then the first time you fight, she will run off with the kids and not let you see them...but of course you still have to pay every month.

All of this happened to a friend of mine - his woman ran 1,000 miles away with his kid, so he just stopped paying. Now he has a $40,000 bill for back child support and is on a lot of "deadbeat dad" lists with the state governments. He can't even get a fishing license.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

Been awhile but...
There's alot of fallacies as well as biased or negative perspectives about the site on this topic. So depending you and your past relationships, it depends on how you view marriage.

1. Throughout history women have been subjugated as property or slaves. This wasn't a "willing theoretical or ideological" position, but one which the founding father's threw them in. Original civilizations throughout the world recognized the equality of men and women, not the superiority of one sex. It's heretical nonsense and total ignorance to presume men have been superior or dominant to women. That's an EARNED position in a relationship of trust, not a granted one with no proven action.

2. Most guys here were AFCs or have never been in a legitimate, healthy relationship with a well-grounded woman. (The oldies might have been, but what drives alot of men here are bad relationships or no relationships, not good ones; There are excepetions to rules).

3. Ever risked anything for the chance at more? Ever cast the die? Taken a chance? Inasmuchas you are afraid of getting worked by the legal system or a ****ty woman, you are afraid of taking a chance at LIFE. I know a great many AWESOME women worth marrying, who are married. The JUICE IS WORTH THE SQUEEZE here.

4. Getting free, easy ***** isn't always better than that you get in a relationship. First off, diseases. I don't need to constantly run my ass to the clinic to be checked. Secondly, it gets better over time. YOUR PERCEPTION OF REALITY IS SELF-FULFILLING. If you see marriage as a ****ty deal, then for you it is. If you see it as a great deal with a friend and woman you love, then it's a great deal.

5. Men today are WEAKER and do less than they have (most men) and whine more like metro *****es, so they can't handle strong women and balk and run when anything gets tough. NO situation is going to be disney, but I see alot of guys here expecting a woman to kiss his feet and the earth he walks upon, when he's no better than she. He's also no "prize" either. He might be a great guy worthy of a great woman, but time and action prove value to your SO, not the genitals you possess.

----------------------------------------

I ain't saying it's bad or good -- it entirely depends on WHO YOU ARE and WHO YOU MARRY, as well as your expectations of RELATIONSHIPS and what MARRIAGE is. I know some awesome girls who were married that I would have married. Sure, it's ONE ***** forever -- OHNOEZ!!! But as far as I'm concerned a great ***** gets better with time. It's YOUR *****. It's CLEAN *****. And if she loves you, like you love her, she'll GROW into freakier ****, not fall out of it. If things fall apart, divorce.

But most guys here are so damn young, they've killed their grown ass lives before they have even lived 'em. Really, the only thing you have in life will be the relationships and memories you leave behind. The companies you create afford you a better standard of living. The body you build is a monument to yourself and enables you to live a better quality of life and attract a better crop of women. But none of it goes with you. So you live hard and fast or appreciate the moment to moment intricacies of LIFE.

If you're going to traverse the globe looking for the IDEAL woman, good luck. Such a search can and will take a long, long time.

-----------------------------------

Looking back...sure, I was in some great s/t relationships and **** situations, and was also in some great l/t relationship as well as bad ones. But I WAS LIVING. Good or bad, I made a move, enjoyed it, and when it was bad or we were done, we were done. But you LIVED. You ain't gonna know how a choice plays out until you make it and live it and see the results. Lord knows girls I NEVER thought I'd date I do and vice-versa.

Some girl I thought wasn't really interested in turned out to be my gf. She had a white italian ghetto booty which she hid beneath conservative clothes and she's HELLA freaky and nymphoish. She also ain't easy to get into, so I know she's clean and down with me. But you can run with any girl who's apparently hot and it doesn't mean much. So just live life. If you marry and it sucks, end it before kids come into the picture. If it's great, good for you.

It just seems people are so caught up in having the PERFECT life (which ain't possible), they're having NO LIFE at all. Many of the guys I know getting married are pressing on with their women and just living life. Hopefully they remain balanced and see their friends and do their thing, but some won't. But they're at least playing the game of life which is alot more important than theorizing about making the perfect choice.

Final...comes down to our view of humans, relationships, and marriage. People's perspective are totally screwed up because of TV and books and forums. We have ideals for partners, but not for ourselves. We expect other's, almost like they are some character in our life's play to fit that role 100% of the time, but it ain't true. Many of you churning and burning new ladies know that you'd probably bore of most women. And when you find that ONE woman you won't, you'd probably marry her in whatever fashion you call marrying someone. But we took marriage, which was this special journey or endeavor, and perverted it into an industry and some Frakenstein like "HAVE TO" chore you do by a certain age. That's where it's failing.

That and all the loose panties and mother/father-less kids. You stick your **** in a your girl, you deserve to marry that girl or be there near 24/7 for the kid. Period.

A-Unit
 

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Cableguy

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^^ Damn brother. You make a remarkably good point my friend. Well said.

p.s. the "OHNOEZ" part made me spit my soda all over my laptop. (I imagine the voice being that efeminite dude on Family Guy lol)
 

STR8UP

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A-Unit said:
Been awhile but...
There's alot of fallacies as well as biased or negative perspectives about the site on this topic. So depending you and your past relationships, it depends on how you view marriage.
My perspective comes from not only past experiences but also from watching most other people's marriages fail or at least fail to make them happy.

3. Ever risked anything for the chance at more? Ever cast the die? Taken a chance? Inasmuchas you are afraid of getting worked by the legal system or a ****ty woman, you are afraid of taking a chance at LIFE. I know a great many AWESOME women worth marrying, who are married. The JUICE IS WORTH THE SQUEEZE here.
So what you are saying is that you should risk your wealth, health, and sanity just because you feel like you need to "take a chance at life"?

Half of all marriages end in divorce. Women initiate 70% of these divorces. Out of the marriages that DO stay together, I would bet that less than half are truly happy.

Do you go to Vegas with the same mentality?

Men today are WEAKER and do less than they have (most men) and whine more like metro *****es, so they can't handle strong women and balk and run when anything gets tough.
No offense, but this sounds like something a woman would say. Matter of fact, a woman was trying to shame my just last weekend with talk about how men are afraid of strong women.

NO situation is going to be disney, but I see alot of guys here expecting a woman to kiss his feet and the earth he walks upon, when he's no better than she. He's also no "prize" either. He might be a great guy worthy of a great woman, but time and action prove value to your SO, not the genitals you possess.
With the entitlement mentality women have these days you could be superman and it often isn't enough.

Fact of the matter is, men have every right to expect a feminine woman. Femininity is not about a woman kissing your feet, but it IS about a woman wanting to be a woman. Women today don't want to be women. Or rather, they DO want to be women but they want all of the benefits of being a man without any of the responsibility.

The same woman who was talking about how men are afraid of strong women also espoused the "men just want a subservient woman who bows to their every whim" theory. What a load of bullsh!t. Your point that men need to be held to a standard is valid, but that does not negate a woman's responsibility to be feminine.

Looking back...sure, I was in some great s/t relationships and **** situations, and was also in some great l/t relationship as well as bad ones. But I WAS LIVING. Good or bad, I made a move, enjoyed it, and when it was bad or we were done, we were done.
I don't regret any of the chances that I took with relationships in the past, but fortunately for me I wasn't a cog in the wealth redistribution wheel that is marriage. Had I been the victim of a divorce (yes, I said VICTIM) I might have a different outlook.

This is what truly disturbs me about the whole pro marriage argument. You have men who KNOW BETTER that still cling to this romanticized notion that you have to have a piece of paper to make your relationship with a woman legitimate.

Never in history has a bigger load of crap been shoved down the collective throats of men.

Seriously....what benefit is there for a man to get married? NONE.

You can try to spin it any which way you want, but it all comes back to the fact that you are doing nothing but handing the woman a blank check which she has more and more incentive to cash with every dollar you put in the bank.

Why do men still cling to the antiquated notion that somehow their life will be better, or "complete" if they manage to get married?

She also ain't easy to get into, so I know she's clean and down with me.
You must not have read DonS's recent thread....

But they're at least playing the game of life which is alot more important than theorizing about making the perfect choice.
So what you are saying is that those of us who choose to avoid marriage aren't "living life"?

I beg to differ.
 

Jitterbug

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My beef with marriage isn't really with the woman or that there are so few marriage-worthy ones. It's the fact that if you marry a woman these days, you're forced to effectively marry a third party - the government / Family Court (and their friendly divorce lawyers who make a living from screwed up marriages) / the law / feminazis who have the same agenda as the divorce lawyers. It's hard enough to deal with a wife, but when you have that third party on her side, it's an impossible fight.

And finally...

A-Unit said:
But they're at least playing the game of life which is alot more important than theorizing about making the perfect choice.
Think of any great man that you admire. Do you admire him because he played the game of life and got married? Is that even a factor at all in your admiration for him?

For me, among the great men I admire and learn from, I never care to know whether they were married or not, and if I happen to know that they were, I don't care enough to find out who their wives were.

"Behind every great man, there's a woman" is something we say to give our women some relevance so they stop b!tching and give us some peace.
 

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future_strongguy

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I find it funny when people use the "I don't want to die alone" excuse. It's like once they get married, they are already planning for their death :p

But anyways, the problems with marriage goes beyond the laws. There are economic problems, time problems, etc.

I have friends who are aware of the laws. They promise their girlfriends they wont get married, yet they go buy a house with them, share their expenses, and live together 24/7.

Imagine: all the $15 of shampoo, phone bills, 12 pairs of shoes, extra clothes as she gets fatter, extra makeup so when she gets fat and cuts her hair she so can still look decent, etc.. If you want to live at the same expense as you did when you were single, you're going to need to cut on your expenses. I've never seen a woman cut back on her shower products. For her these are a necessity :p

Oprah, desperate housewives, entertainment tonight... all those shows that men HATE to watch. Sure, you don't have to watch it with her, but these sounds will become the background noise of your life :crackup: It's no wonder men die first!

Another problem, as I see, is the guys who marry the girl who "stays at home and cooks and cleans and ****s like a rabbit." It seems great until she gets fat and stops ****ing like a rabbit. These women, in my opinion, are just as bad as the Uglo Feminists. The only difference is that the Uglo Feminist is a moron, because she eliminates men from her life. The housewife is smart because she gets a man to work for her for the rest of her life. Wouldn't you stay at home, cook for one hour, and do whatever you want for the rest of the day if you could marry a woman who promises to work?

There are two matriarchs: the Uglo Feminist who is forcing laws against men, and the Housewife who is smart enough to get men to work for her forever.
 

FutureSpartan

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Jitterbug said:
My beef with marriage isn't really with the woman or that there are so few marriage-worthy ones. It's the fact that if you marry a woman these days, you're forced to effectively marry a third party - the government / Family Court (and their friendly divorce lawyers who make a living from screwed up marriages) / the law / feminazis who have the same agenda as the divorce lawyers. It's hard enough to deal with a wife, but when you have that third party on her side, it's an impossible fight.

And finally...



Think of any great man that you admire. Do you admire him because he played the game of life and got married? Is that even a factor at all in your admiration for him?

For me, among the great men I admire and learn from, I never care to know whether they were married or not, and if I happen to know that they were, I don't care enough to find out who their wives were.

"Behind every great man, there's a woman" is something we say to give our women some relevance so they stop b!tching and give us some peace.
Couldn't of said it better!
 

A-Unit

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Re:

I agree with the points of the intrusion of LAW and the MEDIA. Very well put.

I don't agree with people's perspective on women. There's too many competing issues at play.

First, regarding "bets." If we want to get into investing and gambling, MOST successful investors LOSE more than they win -- it's simply that their WINS carry the day with huge returns -- so if they lose 70% of the time, it's cut at 10% or so stop loss. If they win 30% of the time, it's a huge Return -- 50,100,200% returns. I can reference trading books.

The same mentality applies in VEGAS -- not at all machines, but the ones you do actually affect the outcome, such as blackjack or hold 'em. There you align your bets according to the system and there's plenty of differing systems to arrange bets at different times EVEN with odds stacked against you.

So if we're using the same example, it doesn't fly here, because people do work both the markets and casinos, over time when using a system.

Do we not attempt to implement systems when meeting women or have I been confused for the 8 or more years I been coming here?

----------------------------------

You guys are blanketing ALL women with your perspectives. I GET what you're saying -- marriage is a bad deal because it is increasingly complicated when you add the elements of LAW, TAXES, and the DIVORCE implications -- so we must separate LEGAL marriage with the CONCEPT of marriage, or 2 people/souls coming together.

However, many of you have scarred viewpoints on relationships or women, which again, leads to finding those women who'd never be quality marriage material. I know PLENTY of girls that respect and "hear" what yall are saying right now, but would probably not approach given the underlying attitude.

Rather than hunting for what might be worthy of a committed relationship or even marriage (in whatever sense you want it), you're trying to AVOID landmines. That's a very POOR way to think. To find what you want, you have to think, almost obsessively, about what you want. Your mind can't contain both feelings and images.

That's why I'm not sold on much of what was said. Because I've found a great many women who are good marital material. Not to mention, guys aren't without their faults, who change, screw women over in a divorce, and so on. In most cases, and I deal with Divorcees in my everyday life as part of my JOB, women get phucked more than men.

Both my aunts who were divorced were screwed over. Sure, it was a poor deal for the man, but the women forewent their careers to raise children, were dumped at 15+ years and the men hardly come around during some of the toughest years.

I'm a guy. Been coming here and other places nearly 8 years. My brotheren actually disappoint me, because guys today cite stats, back track, deflect blame, or act the victim, rather than just take action and focus on what they want. Most don't think they have a responsibility to a child, when the plain fact is, if you put your **** in her ***** and you make a baby, do the right thing and raise the child and be there for it.

You can't say she lied about BCPs, or that the condom busted, or she lied about the time of the month, or that she agreed to an abortion. Plain fact is, you had the choice not to proceed that far. You had the choice NOT to bust in her, with or without a condom. You had numerous choices UNTIL you blew a load. Then, your freedom is gone. Not unlike men in society today -- you have choices until they are gone. You have freedoms until you won't fight for 'em.

Granted, guys do get phucked over by the legal system, but no stats are absolute. Nor am I saying LIVING LIFE EQUALS MARRIAGE. What I'm saying is...you can sit there and debate all day, but without taking action, all the gibberish going on is Mental Masturbation and Exercises in Futility anyways.

Relationships come down to people. Yet, anyone can link me stats to back up their claims. Thing is, you're a person. You create your life. Take responsibility for it. Don't come here telling me because stats play out one way, my life or your life will go that way, why bother living then?

You could site stats on flying in planes and crashing, or driving cars and crashing, or w/e, but will that change my choices in life? No.

As far as the 70% of divorces INITIATED by women, you can't determine who's at fault and for what -- very vague stats. Did he cheat? Did she cheat? Was he abusive? Did he not fulfill his promises (women are apt to end a relationship more than a man b/c she cares more about her own emotional fulfillment) ? Did he gain assloads of a weight and do a 180 (most men would cheat, but not divorce if their wife became heavy or obese, because they KNOW the divorce laws suck) ?

I'd say most women also end relationships, too. Most guys here think so logically, they don't end them. How many SS posts are made about a guy losing his girl or she goes on "break" and doesn't come back as planned? MOST girls dump or go on s/t breaks with GUYS. Just scan the posts here. That's not startling to me. Women care about their emotional wellbeing, so they will do what it takes, even if it's wrong, to cure that feeling. Men are less emotional, so they'll endure what seems painful, holding hope that things are fixed.

I'm not SIDING with women, but even persuing SS you'll see that women end relationships more than MEN. Women might be more discreet about cheating, but both parties probably cheat as much. Guys might cheat more b/c they don't see cheating as being an emotional thing, so if he loves his girl, he'll keep his girl, cheat, and hope the guilt doesn't kill him. Conversely, a woman wants to be happy in a relationship, so she will dump him before cheating in a lot of cases, unless she's just that unhappy that she wants to FORCE him to dump her or doesn't care anymore.

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Finally, not talking ABOUT strong women vs strong men. Or w/e. I'm talking about MEN, in a vaccuum, are weaker. They pull more psycho crap today on women than in history. They cry more over a random gf they had as a teenager or college student or whatever, rather than going to get more *****. They don't want to get their hands dirty and would rather live off mommy and daddy and party or smoke pot.

They're disrespectful to their elders like never before. Rather than care for humanity and the world, and view themselves as caretakers through their emotional and physical strength, they play the victim card expecting women to be equally emotionally and physically strong. Men have always bore the difficulties in nature, and in return we are repaid with the great feminine beauty of a good woman and the fruits of nature.

By they, today, cry like they've never been fed. Weak and wimpish, they don't get their hands dirty, dress like metros, and can't handle relationships properly. Rather than be the bigger person, men use their powers against humanity, rather than for it. They play the victim, which in and of itself, indicates weakness, rather than internal strength. They rarely hold doors or take action. Rather than ASK WHAT THEY CAN DO...they are asking what should be done for them.

The pervasive image of "I AM THE PRIZE" is well and good to build your self-confidence, but it tends to tip further and blow up someone to an ego maniac who's done nothing and worth nothing. People of value needn't proclaim it publicly; it shines brightly. People of worth are people you seak to be around. If a person is acting little, disrespectful, or careless, move along. Trying to exact revenge yanks you down to their level.

Men have lost their sense of pride in being a man and need PAYMENT just because we are men. It's stupid and it's why women also don't respond properly. Same as a magnet. Men's magnetism is over kilter. I see it on forum boards and in real life, in friends and unfortunately in male family members. People wonder why life doesn't seem as it should, when in reality, we are always our own worst enemies.
 

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Colossus

Master Don Juan
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After reading the latest posts I'd like to chime in again.

A while back I posted an article in a blog of mine about not signing a marriage license, and thereby averting some of the most common and deleterious pitfalls that come with a traditional, state-recognized marriage.

I dont want to get into the minutia of it, but essentially when you sign a marriage license your marriage becomes a jurisdiction of the state; quite literally. All U.S. states require a marriage license to get married, with varying degrees of red tape surrounding it's acqusition. This does NOT mean if you marry without one you are violating the law, per se, it just means that your marriage will not be recognized by the state you reside in, and you forego any tax or civil benefits that normally come with a marriage license.

Without a marriage license, to the state you are nothing more that a cohabitating couple. This means should things dissolve, you will not be subject to all the legal pains and garnishments of a divorce proceeding (unless you have cohabited for long enough that you become common-law married, in which case there probably is legal basis for treating the split as a pseudo-divorce). At present only 11 states recognize common-law marriage, so as long as you dont live in one of those states, you can live together for the forseeable future without falling under government-sanctioned 'marriage'.

So why have a ceremony at all, if you arent going to sign the papers? You still have a marriage certificate of sorts; which is basically a signed recognition that you were indeed joined by a minister or justice of the peace and is basically a recognition between you and your wife that you are married. It will NOT be recognized by the government as valid, however. It is really a personal, symbolic agreement.

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As for my personal, qualitative feelings about marriage; I fully agree that your perspective of it becomes self-fulfilling. I have more reason that most guys to be vehemently against marriage. None of the marriages in my immediate family have gone well, and I have sufficient reason to be contemptuous towards women in general because of the examples I have lived through.

However, I recognize that when you enter into it as something you truly WANT to do--not motivated by fear, obligation, or fairy-tale perceptions---it can be beautiful and enriching partnership. I could easily turn my experiences into a nihilistic, self-centered, survivalist perspective about women and life--like many of our more decorated posters--but because I havent let my whole world-view be discolored and framed as truth by my own emotional wounds, I can see marriage for what it is: A partnership, or agreement if you will, that has the potential to be one of love and respect, or one that can end in utter ruin.

Remember the wise words of Obi-Wan: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
 
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