Why Beta Bux can have the best of both worlds

[New_Journey]

We all know how it goes, Alpha Fvcks and Beta Bux, like this is some kind of $hit written in stone. I mean, the meaning behind it its clear, but not helpful. In the manosphere there is always Beta Bux and Alpha Fvcks, like there is black and white, you are either born with it or you're not. Gentlemen, this is a fallacy.

Have you ever seen the ugly girl in high school who no guys wanted her?, but then after life goes on she becomes a hottie, why is that? She most likely hit the gym, got a boob job done, among other things, and now she is hot. She became a desirable women. What is preventing you from becoming a desirable men?

If you are a Beta Bux, a guy who is successful, his $hit together, make good money, scarcity mindset, putting women on pedestal, you are the definition of " Beta Bux" If you are Alpha, you got nice physique, charming and fun, who don't take $hit from nobody, live your own life as you see fit, abundant mindset.

I don't know have you ever thought that maybe, you are the ugly girl in high school? Why haven't you thought that maybe, you can be the hot attractive girl after high school. Guys, becoming the true definition of Beta Bux is hard, it requires focus, time on your career, being smart wit your money, know hot navigate the financial realm, around a decade for a guy to start seeing bank and improving his life. How many guys have been able to do this?

You have that already, you know what you've built, you know your value based on tangible things, you know what you're capable of doing, what is preventing you from developing your inner Alpha? Why stay Beta when you can have the best of both worlds?

The most dangerous men is the one who's been on both sides, know how things are, know how to navigate the life and dating. This is being truly unplugged.

To become a fully integrated man, you need both Alpha and Beta behaviors. You already have 50% done. Alpha requires a 1/4th of a time, there is no excuse.

 

[Solomon]

The seduction and Red Pill community's dichotomy of Alpha and Beta has never fully resonated with me. It often paints both archetypes in overly simplistic, black-and-white terms, failing to account for the nuance and complexity of real human behavior. For instance, I've seen people say it’s "Beta" to cuddle with your girl or tell her you love her—basic acts of affection that, in reality, are part of a healthy relationship. The labeling gets so extreme that even women have started using the terms superficially on dating apps: “I’m looking for an Alpha,” or ironically, “I want a guy to simp for me.” Of course, in the manosphere, simping is typically associated with Beta males—or worse.

I’m not saying there’s no truth at all to the Alpha vs. Beta framework. What I am saying is that it’s not as black and white as it's often made out to be. Take Elon Musk as an example. Some would label him a Beta male because he’s had multiple children with different women, or for having a child with someone like Grimes Or Ashley St Claire. Yet, Elon is clearly an Alpha in terms of ambition, innovation, and legacy—he’s changing the world through technology and will likely be remembered for centuries. But socially or romantically, some of his choices could come off as more "Beta," possibly influenced by his neurodivergence (he's openly stated he is on the autism spectrum). Both things can be true at once.

In my view, a balanced man embodies both Alpha and Beta traits. You should be Alpha in the sense of having boundaries, self-respect, standards, and creating strong desire in your woman. But there’s nothing wrong with expressing what’s considered "Beta" qualities—like being affectionate, attentive, and emotionally present when needed. Be Alpha when you're setting the tone, taking charge, or putting her in her place if she crosses the line. Be Beta when she’s crying and needs empathy. That’s not weakness; that’s emotional intelligence.
I don’t think it’s Beta at all to provide for a woman. If anything, providing is one of the most Alpha things a man can do—after all, traditional Alphas provided for entire tribes, not just themselves.

What the seduction community gets wrong is their treatment of Beta men as the bottom of the barrel. In reality, the worst types are often Gamma and Omega males—the bitter, nihilistic, or socially disconnected types often seen in incel or blackpill circles. A Beta male, while not dominant, is still functional and capable in society. In terms of social rank and value, Betas—and even Deltas—stand higher than Gammas or Omegas any day.

Great thread @New_Journey

 

[zekko]

I guess this is what you're saying, but why not just have the Bux and forget about all that Beta stuff.

 

[jhonny9546]

I was definitely the "ugly duckling" guy in high school.
Being 165 cm tall and watching others get all the attention while I got nothing—it really made me reflect.


Over the past three years, I’ve gone through quite a transformation physically—my sex appeal is at its peak now. I've also noticed old female I knew in the past, now are "checking" me or just engaging with me. That is the reaction of women around me, they felt that I am changing and becoming a man.

As for my personality, I've always been more of an omega/beta by nature, but I’m starting to adopt traits of abundance and emotional independence—especially when it comes to setting boundaries.


Now, it’s time to focus on my career and financial growth. This is a crucial moment for me.
I wish I had a group of value-driven men around me who could offer solid advice.

 

[New_Journey]

The seduction and Red Pill community's dichotomy of Alpha and Beta has never fully resonated with me. It often paints both archetypes in overly simplistic, black-and-white terms, failing to account for the nuance and complexity of real human behavior. For instance, I've seen people say it’s "Beta" to cuddle with your girl or tell her you love her—basic acts of affection that, in reality, are part of a healthy relationship. The labeling gets so extreme that even women have started using the terms superficially on dating apps: “I’m looking for an Alpha,” or ironically, “I want a guy to simp for me.” Of course, in the manosphere, simping is typically associated with Beta males—or worse.

I’m not saying there’s no truth at all to the Alpha vs. Beta framework. What I am saying is that it’s not as black and white as it's often made out to be. Take Elon Musk as an example. Some would label him a Beta male because he’s had multiple children with different women, or for having a child with someone like Grimes Or Ashley St Claire. Yet, Elon is clearly an Alpha in terms of ambition, innovation, and legacy—he’s changing the world through technology and will likely be remembered for centuries. But socially or romantically, some of his choices could come off as more "Beta," possibly influenced by his neurodivergence (he's openly stated he is on the autism spectrum). Both things can be true at once.

In my view, a balanced man embodies both Alpha and Beta traits. You should be Alpha in the sense of having boundaries, self-respect, standards, and creating strong desire in your woman. But there’s nothing wrong with expressing what’s considered "Beta" qualities—like being affectionate, attentive, and emotionally present when needed. Be Alpha when you're setting the tone, taking charge, or putting her in her place if she crosses the line. Be Beta when she’s crying and needs empathy. That’s not weakness; that’s emotional intelligence.
I don’t think it’s Beta at all to provide for a woman. If anything, providing is one of the most Alpha things a man can do—after all, traditional Alphas provided for entire tribes, not just themselves.

What the seduction community gets wrong is their treatment of Beta men as the bottom of the barrel. In reality, the worst types are often Gamma and Omega males—the bitter, nihilistic, or socially disconnected types often seen in incel or blackpill circles. A Beta male, while not dominant, is still functional and capable in society. In terms of social rank and value, Betas—and even Deltas—stand higher than Gammas or Omegas any day.

Great thread @New_Journey

Great explanation, I agree with you.

I guess this is what you're saying, but why not just have the Bux and forget about all that Beta stuff.

No.

Alpha and Beta are architypes, they're identified by their behaviors.

Alpha are qualities that @Solomon mentioned also, like fvcking multiple women and having no commitment, those behaviors provide arousal to women, vagina tingles.

Beta qualities provide comfort, cuddling at night, pillow talk, being romantic, giving gift.

If you wanna keep a relationship, you need both behaviors, however, most men offer too much Beta, read comfort, and not enough Alpha, read arousal.

In my relationship, I helped my ex get a better physique, with better food, better gym exercises, coaching her, she was looking hotter, even now when she's not with me. Many will say that was beta, her physique was not my problem, and it may be true, but for me, I didn't care, I did because I wanted to, I wanted for my gf to level up like me when I was getting a better physique, I took her from the hand and led her.

However, you can be the Alpha of Alphas, the Beta of Betas or having the perfect ratio of Alpha vs Beta, and still your relationship can end, because relationships are a woman's job. So what I'm trying to say don't follow any rule, everything can be bend, and also, there is no spoon.

 

[zekko]

Beta qualities provide comfort, cuddling at night, pillow talk, being romantic, giving gift.

Well, the Beta qualities you listed in the original post - having a scarcity mindset and putting women on a pedestal - are not desirable. There is nothing Beta about making money, being successful, or having you $hit together. That's why I say, get the Bux but forget the Beta. That doesn't mean I'm saying you should become a King of the Jungle Alpha, swinging from tree to tree inseminating every woman you see and dropping her immediately to care for your offspring.

 

[New_Journey]

Well, the Beta qualities you listed in the original post - having a scarcity mindset and putting women on a pedestal - are not desirable. There is nothing Beta about making money, being successful, or having you $hit together.

I agree with you on this.

That's why I say, get the Bux but forget the Beta. That doesn't mean I'm saying you should become a King of the Jungle Alpha, swinging from tree to tree inseminating every woman you see and dropping her immediately to care for your offspring.

Then I will get only Alpha Bux, which by definition provides no comfort which very necessary for a relationship.

 

[BeExcellent]

Also. On the topic of relationships. Utterly incorrect to say relationships are the woman's responsibility. You show me a man with that expectation and I'll show you a man who stinks at relationships and keeps failing at them.

As a man yes you need to give a crap about the other person. Its a partnership not a dictatorship.

 

[plumber]

I was definitely the "ugly duckling" guy in high school.
Being 165 cm tall and watching others get all the attention while I got nothing—it really made me reflect.


Over the past three years, I’ve gone through quite a transformation physically—my sex appeal is at its peak now. I've also noticed old female I knew in the past, now are "checking" me or just engaging with me. That is the reaction of women around me, they felt that I am changing and becoming a man.

As for my personality, I've always been more of an omega/beta by nature, but I’m starting to adopt traits of abundance and emotional independence—especially when it comes to setting boundaries.


Now, it’s time to focus on my career and financial growth. This is a crucial moment for me.
I wish I had a group of value-driven men around me who could offer solid advice.

any bjj clubs in your area ? you would be surprised at the different type of men that are in it. good place to find non lazy guys.

 

[BadBoy89]

Yet, Elon is clearly an Alpha in terms of ambition, innovation, and legacy—he’s changing the world through technology and will likely be remembered for centuries.

Being Alpha has nothing to do ambition, or innovation or legacy.

He‘s changing the world by destroying millions of lives through his Doge program, without any care or regard for the working class people. What an Aloha man, I wish I was just like him, destroy lives and be proud of it.

But socially or romantically, some of his choices could come off as more "Beta," possibly influenced by his neurodivergence (he's openly stated he is on the autism spectrum). Both things can be true at once.

They could also be considered Alpha. Multiple children with multiple women? A lot of men on Sosuave have trouble getting one date.

In my view, a balanced man embodies both Alpha and Beta traits. You should be Alpha in the sense of having boundaries, self-respect, standards, and creating strong desire in your woman. But there’s nothing wrong with expressing what’s considered "Beta" qualities—like being affectionate, attentive, and emotionally present when needed.

Nothing wrong with it, but she could use it against a man in court, Then a man will see who is in charge.

Be Alpha when you're setting the tone, taking charge, or putting her in her place if she crosses the line. Be Beta when she’s crying and needs empathy. That’s not weakness; that’s emotional intelligence.

Emotional intelligence doesn’t hold up in Court.

I don’t think it’s Beta at all to provide for a woman. If anything, providing is one of the most Alpha things a man can do—after all, traditional Alphas provided for entire tribes, not just themselves.

May not be Beta, but it’s dumb as hell. This is 2025, not the 1950s.

What the seduction community gets wrong is their treatment of Beta men as the bottom of the barrel.

They are. Beta men are working class men. Beta men make the world go around. They are ones who Simp and supplicate to women. They are the reason an Alpha man is not allowed to have many wives. They are called Beta for a reason.

In reality, the worst types are often Gamma and Omega males—the bitter, nihilistic, or socially disconnected types often seen in incel or blackpill circles. A Beta male, while not dominant, is still functional and capable in society. In terms of social rank and value, Betas—and even Deltas—stand higher than Gammas or Omegas any day.

You are contradicting yourself. Betas are not dominant but functional in society, THAT is the point of the Beta, To be functional in society for the Alpha.

At least the black pill knows this.

 

[plumber]

Being Alpha has nothing to do ambition, or innovation or legacy.

He‘s changing the world by destroying millions of lives through his Doge program, without any care or regard for the working class people. What an Aloha man, I wish I was just like him, destroy lives and be proud of it.



They could also be considered Alpha. Multiple children with multiple women? A lot of men on Sosuave have trouble getting one date.



Nothing wrong with it, but she could use it against a man in court, Then a man will see who is in charge.



Emotional intelligence doesn’t hold up in Court.



May not be Beta, but it’s dumb as hell. This is 2025, not the 1950s.



They are. Beta men are working class men. Beta men make the world go around. They are ones who Simp and supplicate to women. They are the reason an Alpha man is not allowed to have many wives. They are called Beta for a reason.



You are contradicting yourself. Betas are not dominant but functional in society, THAT is the point of the Beta, To be functional in society for the Alpha.

At least the black pill knows this.

don't confuse alpha/beta with the messed up legal system in the west. probably men become beta as they allow or beg the woman to make most decisions. this is not about money. money is a form of power and lets the beta character survive.

but the laws that your talking about are something different and all are affected.

 

[characternote]

n she becomes a hottie, why is that? She most likely hit the gym, got a boob job done, among other things

men can too!

lol

 

[New_Journey]

He‘s changing the world by destroying millions of lives through his Doge program

In the private sector, when people don't do $hit they get fired, when money is wasted they cut expenses, when programs don't make money they close them, why then is it different for government? Because its politized. It seems you've never worked in your life. Have you heard of layoff in companies? Why there is no riots when Amazon or other companies lay people off? If you don't know what you're saying, its better to stay quiet.

Also. On the topic of relationships. Utterly incorrect to say relationships are the woman's responsibility. You show me a man with that expectation and I'll show you a man who stinks at relationships and keeps failing at them.

As a man yes you need to give a crap about the other person. Its a partnership not a dictatorship.

Of course you would think that, you are a woman. Also, I didn't say responsibility, I said job. The man's job is to be the leader, be the prize, the woman's job is to keep that man, keep that prize in the relationship for herself. Every woman is replaceable, but not every man is a prize. Because if he is the prize, he is choosing you among the other options.

When the man makes his relationship his job, everything falls apart, but you wouldn't know that, you are not with a prize, sorry honey, maybe on your next marriage.

 

[SW15]

have the Bux and forget about all that Beta stuff.

Having money and not being beta is a good position.

Guys, becoming the true definition of Beta Bux is hard, it requires focus, time on your career, being smart wit your money, know hot navigate the financial realm, around a decade for a guy to start seeing bank and improving his life. How many guys have been able to do this?

When you put it this way, it is difficult. Part of being a Beta Bucks guy is avoiding layoffs. That's difficult to do in white collar. 2023-2025 have been brutal for layoffs and the 2008-2012 era was tough too.

Some guys are able to do this. I think it's easier to do as a blue collar man than a white collar man with all the white collar layoffs going on. Being a white collar Beta Bucks was easier in the late 20th Century than it has been in the 21st Century (mainly since 2008).

 

[Vanderdonck]

I'm trying Alpha Bux, Beta ****s.

 

[BaronOfHair]

"Alpha" and "Beta" have just become stand in terms for "What I approve of/Think I'd like to be"* and "What I disapprove of/Have a strong visceral reaction of disgust towards"




*"THINK" being the operative word here, lads. Cool as Don Draper looked on camera, many of us would be tenuring our resignations by the end of Week 1, if we tried our hand at being an executive in RL

 

[BeExcellent]

In the private sector, when people don't do $hit they get fired, when money is wasted they cut expenses, when programs don't make money they close them, why then is it different for government? Because its politized. It seems you've never worked in your life. Have you heard of layoff in companies? Why there is no riots when Amazon or other companies lay people off? If you don't know what you're saying, its better to stay quiet.


Of course you would think that, you are a woman. Also, I didn't say responsibility, I said job. The man's job is to be the leader, be the prize, the woman's job is to keep that man, keep that prize in the relationship for herself. Every woman is replaceable, but not every man is a prize. Because if he is the prize, he is choosing you among the other options.

When the man makes his relationship his job, everything falls apart, but you wouldn't know that, you are not with a prize, sorry honey, maybe on your next marriage.

Ah the gratuitous insults because your argument is weak. No relationship is all unicorns and rainbows my dear. I am very transparent here and so I can see why you'd make this assumption.

Yes the man has to make his relationship a priority. He cannot just expect the woman to be 100% responsible, otherwise soon enough he will have no relationship, as you yourself have recently experienced. Why don't you render me an opinion once you have married and created a family. Never married people have zero idea what that level of committment is about.

So come see me with your belief system once you have pertinent life experience, lol.

 

[justaroundthecorner]

Alpha - Beta division is artificial - alpha is pack leader, he can charm and evade fight by showing off either his strenght, charisma, influence or money.

However, most of alphas ride heavily on money (whether own or inherited/obtained via parents) to create alpha position for themselves - but in some situations they shall be perceived as beta-buxxers or simply lame especially when their alpha status fleets away due to situational change of their status vs other males status.

In todays perspective I have noticed that both alpha and sigma terms are misunderstood and simply eroded due to that in popular view.

Often muscled, six pack chad is named "alpha" - his "alpha" status may be evident on the dance floor or in the gym alas e.g. in intellectual convo or in middle-sphere status social structure, in advanced professions, this guy is non existant as he would be perceived as too dumb to be effective in such cases. So his objective status is probably middle-beta (strong but not intelligent, able to pick up sexually attractive but probably shallow, dumb and low-to-average tier of intelligence female - good cannon fodder in case of war or in corporate paper-moving ladder).

Sigma is often misunderstood by younger ppl with omega male (rather unattractive guy that is smart and dgaf about social structure norms but likes attention by pointing out fallacies of mainstream social structure and mainstream choices in social situations).

The difference with Sigma is that he DGAF about other ppl opinions about social norms and do not need attention nor takes pleasure from it (like alpha or omega or delta) he comes, do what needs to do for his own purposes and go - any attention he creates, he uses for some specific purpose, however he has ability to easily nullify or challenge alpha status of "alphas" in their situational setting if necessary.

Smart, independent, strong lone-wolf type sigma is very rare sight - wannabe sigmas are often gammas or gamma-beta mixes.

I think sigma is like a male version of female "unicorn" - very rare type of man, to the extent his existance is anegdotal.

Movie & TV Series examples would be probably:
- Tyler Durden from Fight Club
- Donald Draper from Mad Men
- Deckard from Blade Runner
- Vincent from Collateral
- Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop
- Rust Cohle from Detective Season 1

Now, concerning betas - most of betas have basic ability to upgrade to get women. Some goes for gammas, gamma-beta mixes - the effect is widely known as increase in human species population over the world (it's not just alphas spreading their seed) the difference is usually that alphas have bit more of offspring than rest of the guys (aside of some low-tier couples living on social support) and alphas offspring should be at least of decent quality (if alpha rode on money, it may be of average status only as money don't bring you nice children) therefore alphas often want to mix with attractive females (as good looks helps you maintain alpha status even if you lack in character or intelligence sphere) alphas usually like to spread their seed.

Now, gammas go for gamma girls (smarter than alpha choice types). Sigmas can pick up theoretically every type of female (it does not go the same for alpha type male), he is the only type that can hunt unicorns effectively.

Betas gammas or gamma-beta mixes do not have the money or looks alphas usually have to pick women from alpha bracket and they lack looks to go after unicorns effectively (which is why only sigma can slay unicorns easily).

Therefore I would not say that betas have it good - they have what they are able to eventually pick up.

 

[New_Journey]

Yes the man has to make his relationship a priority

Sure, the order of priories is Himself, his kids, his family, his purpose, his pet and then comes the relationship.

He cannot just expect the woman to be 100% responsible

Nah, more like 80% responsible. I mean he is taking care of business slaying dragons, helping his wife with the kids, what the actual fvck are you going to be responsible for, nothing? The head is not only for hair.

will have no relationship, as you yourself have recently experienced.

I did but not for the reasons you think, a man like me wouldn't take the minimal disrespect from a woman like you who talks bad about her husband with her friends, sorry honey, we are not in the same level.

Why don't you render me an opinion once you have married and created a family. Never married people have zero idea what that level of committment is about.

I don't need to have cancer to know its bad.

So come see me with your belief system once you have pertinent life experience, lol.

Is this suppose to be a joke? Damn once more is proven women aren't funny.

 

[SW15]

Never married people have zero idea what that level of committment is about.

I don't need to have cancer to know its bad.

A never married person can observe marriages and see how lousy they often are. Many never marrieds observe marriages and even some longer term non-marital LTRs and make the decision that they'd like to go a different direction.

I watched one of my grandfathers die from cancer during my college years. It was terrible to observe. @New_Journey 's comment resonated with me because of that experience.

Observation and reading is what led me to the idea that I am most known for on SoSuave. I believe relationships have a shelf life of goodness and that shelf life rarely exceeds 5 years. It's why I haven't married.

A beta male with a blue pill ideology will not get to that level of insight and stick with it as I have.