Why attractiveness rating in men is a coping mechanism

[BaronOfHair]

I know one thing you're referring to when you say insane/rigid belief system is my reluctance to ever nail a woman below the age of 45 again

No, I mean you being as much of a kill joy as EVERY guy who's spent entirely too much time immersed in MGTOW culture, and every b-tch who's Gone Woke. Highly ironic, as you folks never hesitate to remind the rest of us just how "strong and independent" you are

 

[SW15]

STEM professionals (which I also am) tend to be on the spectrum disproportionately.

This is true. However, people with STEM bachelor's and advanced degrees can often find employment.

STEM is also wide. When people think of STEM people on the spectrum, people tend to think of scientists and engineers, not necessarily medical doctors seeing patients and dentists. Some medical doctors and dentists can do well with beta male money game. The typical doctor or dentist I've seen over the years is a married Boomer or Gen X'er.

Why do you think many male STEM workers (usually the scientists and engineers) manage to stay employed but don't manage to seduce well? I think this is not only a good question for @BeExcellent but for others to answer.

Scientists and engineers are often make it past the female HR screener and then perform well enough in interviews with fellow scientists and engineers. However, their abilities to get jobs don't translate very well into getting laid with women who usually don't work STEM jobs.

Tech companies have also done a lot of layoffs lately and STEM nerds have been affected. Some STEM guys who have needed to use money game to get laid aren't having that option at this time with the tech layoffs.

 

[GoodMan32]

This is true. However, people with STEM bachelor's and advanced degrees can often find employment.

STEM is also wide. When people think of STEM people on the spectrum, people tend to think of scientists and engineers, not necessarily medical doctors seeing patients and dentists. Some medical doctors and dentists can do well with beta male money game. The typical doctor or dentist I've seen over the years is a married Boomer or Gen X'er.

Why do you think many male STEM workers (usually the scientists and engineers) manage to stay employed but don't manage to seduce well? I think this is not only a good question for @BeExcellent but for others to answer.

Scientists and engineers are often make it past the female HR screener and then perform well enough in interviews with fellow scientists and engineers. However, their abilities to get jobs don't translate very well into getting laid with women who usually don't work STEM jobs.

Tech companies have also done a lot of layoffs lately and STEM nerds have been affected. Some STEM guys who have needed to use money game to get laid aren't having that option at this time with the tech layoffs.

Even though I don't work in STEM, I have a decent amount in common with STEM employees (in terms of demeanor), on account of being an autist.

Here's my hypothesis for why many male STEM employees (which, in many cases, is synonymous for male autists) do well on the job, yet are terrible at seducing.

Autists are good at following directions. If you give us step-by-step directions, we can follow the directions to a tee no problem.

I stand out as being a superb employee because of how good I am at following step-by-step directions (my reasons for making a low income have nothing to do with my performance in my current role)

Yet with seduction, there are no step-by-step directions. That's why male STEM bros (many of which are autists) fail miserably at seduction.

In a hypothetical world where step-by-step directions to get laid were a thing, male autists would (in a shocking role reversal) perhaps get laid even easier than alphas.

 

[SW15]

Here's my hypothesis for why many male STEM employees (which, in many cases, is synonymous for male autists) do well on the job, yet are terrible at seducing.

Autists are good at following directions. If you give us step-by-step directions, we can follow the directions to a tee no problem.

That's relevant for keeping a job but not relevant for getting through interview processes to actually getting the job. One might think that interviewing for a job is like seduction because you are seducing the employer into finding value in you.

 

[Slowhandluke]

This is true. However, people with STEM bachelor's and advanced degrees can often find employment.

STEM is also wide. When people think of STEM people on the spectrum, people tend to think of scientists and engineers, not necessarily medical doctors seeing patients and dentists. Some medical doctors and dentists can do well with beta male money game. The typical doctor or dentist I've seen over the years is a married Boomer or Gen X'er.

Why do you think many male STEM workers (usually the scientists and engineers) manage to stay employed but don't manage to seduce well? I think this is not only a good question for @BeExcellent but for others to answer.

people who are engineers, etc. are mostly logical and not emotional. they don't like to lie and they don't like to play games. these are disadvantages when trying to seduce your average woman. average women are gullible and base their decisions on emotions especially now since advice from fathers and brothers are considered "not cool".

this is why engineers suck at dating.

 

[SW15]

people who are engineers, etc. are mostly logical and not emotional. they don't like to lie and they don't like to play games. these are disadvantages when trying to seduce your average woman. average women are gullible and base their decisions on emotions especially now since advice from fathers and brothers are considered "not cool".

this is why engineers suck at dating.

Logic and a lack of emotionality might do well in job interviews and on the job.

Connecting with women's emotions in crucial in mating interactions. Scientists and engineers are less good at that.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Yet with seduction, there are no step-by-step directions.

There actually is, but I’m guessing that even if you were handed the exact step-by-step SOP, which it has been given to you in the past, you’d still come up with reasons why it doesn’t work for you.

 

[GoodMan32]

That's relevant for keeping a job but not relevant for getting through interview processes to actually getting the job. One might think that interviewing for a job is like seduction because you are seducing the employer into finding value in you.

Good point.

There are still some differences between a job interview vs seducing a woman.

You don't have to prove you're a romantic match to the interviewer; all you have to do is prove that you'd be good at the job (and if you have plenty of prior work experience where you were a good employee, it's pretty easy to convince an interviewer you'd be a good employee for their company)

On the other hand, autistic men (STEM or not) will simply never be sexually exciting to a wide swath of the female population (which is why convincing a woman we'd be a good fit sexually is a challenge for us)

people who are engineers, etc. are mostly logical and not emotional. they don't like to lie and they don't like to play games. these are disadvantages when trying to seduce your average woman. average women are gullible and base their decisions on emotions especially now since advice from fathers and brothers are considered "not cool".

this is why engineers suck at dating.

Autists have a hard time lying. Perhaps that's why autists are overrepresented in engineering.

Logic and a lack of emotionality might do well in job interviews and on the job.

Connecting with women's emotions in crucial in mating interactions. Scientists and engineers are less good at that.

Yep, the qualities that make a guy a good employee aren't necessarily the same qualities that make a guy a good seducer.

Which would explain why my coworker's career felon son who has a hard time holding a job has no problem getting a woman.

There actually is, but I’m guessing that even if you were handed the exact step-by-step SOP, which it has been given to you in the past, you’d still come up with reasons why it doesn’t work for you.

There are general steps you can take to increase your odds of getting laid (For example, being muscular makes any given woman more likely to drop her panties). I used the muscular example because many a poster has told me to work out.

That's still not the same as step-by-step foolproof directions.

A muscular man isn't able to go up to any single woman he sees and get guaranteed sex just from being muscular.

If there were 100% foolproof step-by-step directions that led to guaranteed sex, however (not just increased odds), I'd have a field day with that information. The last thing I'd do is come up with excuses of why it wouldn't work.

On the other hand, I could picture Chads/Tyrones/alphas/etc having the attitude "to hell with the step-by-step directions; I'm going to do it my own way"

That's why I say autistic men would (in a shocking role reversal) get more cooch than alphas if there were 100% foolproof step-by-step directions.

 

[BeExcellent]

This is true. However, people with STEM bachelor's and advanced degrees can often find employment.

STEM is also wide. When people think of STEM people on the spectrum, people tend to think of scientists and engineers, not necessarily medical doctors seeing patients and dentists. Some medical doctors and dentists can do well with beta male money game. The typical doctor or dentist I've seen over the years is a married Boomer or Gen X'er.

Why do you think many male STEM workers (usually the scientists and engineers) manage to stay employed but don't manage to seduce well? I think this is not only a good question for @BeExcellent but for others to answer.

Scientists and engineers are often make it past the female HR screener and then perform well enough in interviews with fellow scientists and engineers. However, their abilities to get jobs don't translate very well into getting laid with women who usually don't work STEM jobs.

Tech companies have also done a lot of layoffs lately and STEM nerds have been affected. Some STEM guys who have needed to use money game to get laid aren't having that option at this time with the tech layoffs.

My whole career has been in STEM. I was accepted to medical school but at the last minute decided not to go (great decision looking back). Four year BS in Bio alongside a 4 year BA in English. I did those concomitantly, in a 4 year span carrying heavy course loads (to obtain both degrees required about 32 hours past what one degree with a minor would have been.)

I also did Greek life and was an executive in my sorority AND did student government. And I worked part time. To do all that I had to have a plan, be focused, achievement oriented, and disciplined. I didn't have time to be a mess or a floozy although I had plenty of fun.

First boyfriend/LTR was an electrical engineer getting his MBA in finance. He was super smart and socially well calibrated. Also handsome.

I was too smart and too ambitious for many guys. I didn't like the drunk idiot frat boy types. I liked hot and smart, and slightly nerdy. So STEM men suited me well....as a science person myself I understood these type guys and they would realize I "got" them & would open up emotionally.

But I am an unusual woman in that sense.

If spectrum men are very good looking (like my husband) to the point where women approach, even a guy on the spectrum (who is actually quite bright) is going to gain experience and learn from it. My husband knows very well how to navigate early interactions because he's had so much exposure to women. He still finds female behavior illogical plenty, but it is familiar and he's figured out what works.

He has close female friends who have spelled things out for him over time.

He also is sigma in RP parlance and does not give a crap what others think about him. This confers a natural IDGAF in his behavior that arises in part from the spectrum in that ASD people generally don't need as much social interaction as the average person.

Your average looking STEM man does not have that kind of experience in the dating/mating arena. My husband is also an accomplished musician and spent time in the music business in LA.....so he's seen groupies etc.

The average STEM dude immerses himself in his studies and then career and may not garner a great deal of social experience. Additionally these men typically want a chick with enough intellect to hold an intelligent conversation about science or history or current events; something other than social media and reality TV. STEM men are more cerebral in my experience. They need intellectual stimulation as well as attraction for an interaction to have legs.

A smart girl who is also hot and nice is what every man wants so the competition is fierce and those girls can be choosy assuming they realize their value.

So I think those factors contribute to STEM men struggling. Women are often overly emotional and illogical too, certainly. There is lots of nuance & gray area, something a highly rational mind struggles with.

You are correct @GoodMan32 autists are terrible liars. They have "tells" they don't realize they have. Your biggest issue is analysis paralysis. You are too busy calculating (negative biased) outcomes to go gain experience.

Do your homework assignment already!!

 

[Barrister]

Men can certainly raise their SMV by:

1. Getting in better physique (hit the gym);

2. Wear better (and newer) clothes that are stylish (and show off your gains in #1);

3. Have a decent job.

These are all things any man can do to improve his chances. And all of these have been preached on SS for years and years because they are true. Obviously, not all men are created equal. We aren’t all Brad Pitt. But most men are capable of getting results if they want to.

 

[Slowhandluke]

My whole career has been in STEM. I was accepted to medical school but at the last minute decided not to go (great decision looking back). Four year BS in Bio alongside a 4 year BA in English. I did those concomitantly, in a 4 year span carrying heavy course loads (to obtain both degrees required about 32 hours past what one degree with a minor would have been.)

I also did Greek life and was an executive in my sorority AND did student government. And I worked part time. To do all that I had to have a plan, be focused, achievement oriented, and disciplined. I didn't have time to be a mess or a floozy although I had plenty of fun.

First boyfriend/LTR was an electrical engineer getting his MBA in finance. He was super smart and socially well calibrated. Also handsome.

I was too smart and too ambitious for many guys. I didn't like the drunk idiot frat boy types. I liked hot and smart, and slightly nerdy. So STEM men suited me well....as a science person myself I understood these type guys and they would realize I "got" them & would open up emotionally.

But I am an unusual woman in that sense.

If spectrum men are very good looking (like my husband) to the point where women approach, even a guy on the spectrum (who is actually quite bright) is going to gain experience and learn from it. My husband knows very well how to navigate early interactions because he's had so much exposure to women. He still finds female behavior illogical plenty, but it is familiar and he's figured out what works.

He has close female friends who have spelled things out for him over time.

He also is sigma in RP parlance and does not give a crap what others think about him. This confers a natural IDGAF in his behavior that arises in part from the spectrum in that ASD people generally don't need as much social interaction as the average person.

Your average looking STEM man does not have that kind of experience in the dating/mating arena. My husband is also an accomplished musician and spent time in the music business in LA.....so he's seen groupies etc.

The average STEM dude immerses himself in his studies and then career and may not garner a great deal of social experience. Additionally these men typically want a chick with enough intellect to hold an intelligent conversation about science or history or current events; something other than social media and reality TV. STEM men are more cerebral in my experience. They need intellectual stimulation as well as attraction for an interaction to have legs.

A smart girl who is also hot and nice is what every man wants so the competition is fierce and those girls can be choosy assuming they realize their value.

So I think those factors contribute to STEM men struggling. Women are often overly emotional and illogical too, certainly. There is lots of nuance & gray area, something a highly rational mind struggles with.

You are correct @GoodMan32 autists are terrible liars. They have "tells" they don't realize they have. Your biggest issue is analysis paralysis. You are too busy calculating (negative biased) outcomes to go gain experience.

Do your homework assignment already!!

arranged marriages have been prevalent throughout history for a reason. when given a choice, people... average people (the majority) choose to follow their emotions. for example, given unlimited "tasty" food, average people will over eat. Average people.. average women (i.e., the majority of women) will make choices that are not logical. even if the "nerd" makes more logical sense, then the "bad boy".

In a way most STEM people understand this "subconsciously", but due to their ethics - be truthful, don't lie.. don't waste resources, non conspicuous spending (why buy an expensive car/house/clothes/etc.. when a plain one works just as good), save for the future, etc. most engineers don't engage in the "mating dance" and therefore they "lose out" on dating average women. And if they don't put themselves "out there", the also lose out on the atypical women who they might better match with.

also, those STEM men who are more self aware and decide to pinch their noses doing the "dating dance" will usually succeed bedding many average women but they will ultimately be not fulfilled.

 

[Mike32ct]

I can say this as an engineer myself.

Besides the number of STEM guys on the spectrum, a lot of engineers are introverts.

They’re stereotypically viewed as dry or boring, unless they are very good looking or happen to have the right hobbies/lifestyle that women like. (Or he’s a super outgoing former frat bro.)

While I’m far from robotic, I have little interest in engaging someone’s emotions. Teasing, flirting, ball busting, etc. are very unnatural to me. I was unable to do c&f during that craze. It just didn’t land for me.

I don’t even really enjoy small talk that much. In real life, if I’m not busy with work, I’d rather have a substantive discussion with somebody about a particular topic. It doesn’t have to be “techy” stuff. Relationship stuff is fine. But I prefer to stay on one topic for a while, not do the extrovert multi-threading like a soap opera tv show that keeps changing scenes and characters. That literally HURTS my nerd brain lol.

I had a past female friend call me boring multiple times, but she still called me 4x a week to talk or wanted to hang out once every two weeks lol.

 

[Slowhandluke]

. While I’m far from robotic, I have little interest in engaging someone’s emotions. Teasing, flirting, ball busting, etc. are very unnatural to me. I was unable to do c&f during that craze. It just didn’t land for me. I don’t even enjoy small talk. In real life, if I’m not busy with work, I’d rather have a substantive discussion with somebody about a particular topic. I had a past female friend call me boring multiple times, but she still called me 4x a week to talk or wanted to hang out once every two weeks lol.

you can as easily change your personality as a typical woman can as easily start rejecting the "bad boy".. which means, no you really cant. That is the dilemma. there is nothing wrong about being logical though and less emotional. people are all not the same. STEM people are unique. society saying that STEM men should "date arround" and if they dont, they are "losers" are weird.

 

[Mike32ct]

you can as easily change your personality as a typical woman can as easily start rejecting the "bad boy".. which means, no you really cant. That is the dilemma. there is nothing wrong about being logical though and less emotional. people are all not the same. STEM people are unique. society saying that STEM men should "date arround" and if they dont, they are "losers" are weird.

Yeah. STEM guys (like all guys) should just own their natural strengths. If they can’t be exciting, then be chill instead.

 

[BadBoy89]

Men can certainly raise their SMV by:

1. Getting in better physique (hit the gym);

2. Wear better (and newer) clothes that are stylish (and show off your gains in #1);

3. Have a decent job.

These are all things any man can do to improve his chances. And all of these have been preached on SS for years and years because they are true. Obviously, not all men are created equal. We aren’t all Brad Pitt. But most men are capable of getting results if they want to.

Still say height and hair are #1 for women looking to have sex and / or procreate.

The above stuff is good for men to attract OLDER women.

 

[BaronOfHair]

arranged marriages have been prevalent throughout history for a reason

Yeah: Individual rights were more uncommon than the sight of pubic hair on the set of a Vivid flick, prior to The 1700s... In most parts of the world outside of The West, they still are pretty uncommon

 

[Mike32ct]

Still say height and hair are #1 for women looking to have sex and / or procreate.

The above stuff is good for men to attract OLDER women.

Even older women prefer height and hair. I thought older women might be more forgiving of less hair. They aren’t.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

I agree that most of the times it's more the "type" you are and not just the sum of your features.

While certain featurs like good hair, broad shoulders, white teeth and height are generally considered more attractive, the rest give different results according to the mix.

I kid you now I had below average girls making a point to mistreat me for no reason while getting special treatment from hot girls, I had decent looking girls being nice to me but making it clear there was no interest but also unattractive ones being open about it.

What I noticed is that often times a group of girls slightly change their "opinion" on you according to what others within that group think.
Not necessarily the pretties one but more the popular one.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What I noticed is that often times a group of girls slightly change their "opinion" on you according to what others within that group think.
Not necessarily the pretties one but more the popular one.

Going to the john in herds has worked out well for them for millenias.... Presumably fending off the ghoulies

is much easier when you're not fighting those bastards one on one

Not surprising then that chicks rely heavily upon their committees for everything else in life also