Which is Worse? She was paid to sleep with another man? Or did it free?

[bigneil]

This is purely speculative question that members shouldn't be too surprised I have pondered.

If you found out a girl you were dating had slept with a guy she just met this week, would you prefer that she had been paid to do it? Or that she did it free? Or does it matter?

 

[BeExcellent]

Neil neither option is good. Strippers are strippers. Women who take their clothes off for money are not quality ladies. They are by definition damaged. I know you are fond of them & find them beautiful etc., but you are seriously delusional if you expect real loyalty out of these sort of women.

They will screw other men. No matter what they tell you & no matter how in love you think they are. They will tell the other guy exactly the same thing. Or they will accept money or drugs and have transactional sex. They may be completely sincere in the moment, but only for that moment.

Ditto the lovey dovey text convos. They want to keep you on the line. They like the fancy perks you provide and are inclined to give sex to continue the perks.

One of my oldest tenured friends married a Penthouse centerfold...had a son with her. It lasted a tumultuous 5 years with her eventually leaving him with the latest guy she was screwing. She didn't get much since he didn't have much then in his early 30s.

One of my ex husbands best friends from the night club ended up married to one of the strippers at a girlie bar where he had risen to GM. It lasted less than 2 years and ended exactly like my friend's marriage to the centerfold.

My ex's friend had a stripper who was getting a bachelors degree and so on. She was pretty, had a great body & was intelligent.

Women who will take their clothes off for strangers for money have so cheapened their value & ability to bond that they have a similar pathos of trying to patch that hole in their soul with transactions. This for that. Always. And they always are willing to take advantage of anyone for their own perceived benefit.

My ex husband had a stripper after him before we started dating. She wanted the cache of being seen out & about as girlfriend of such & such night club. She was super sweet because she wanted something off him. Not because she had a genuine personal interest in him. He saw through her and wasn't about to seriously get involved with such a woman, but he said she was down for whatever he wanted.

He knew better than to consider a w h o r e for a serious relationship. He avoided the crazy that both his buddy and my friend went through. Both those guys (predictably) got their hearts ripped out, stomped on & handed back. Nobody but them was terribly shocked.

 

[9Volt]

Neil neither option is good. Strippers are strippers. Women who take their clothes off for money are not quality ladies. They are by definition damaged. I know you are fond of them & find them beautiful etc., but you are seriously delusional if you expect real loyalty out of these sort of women.

They will screw other men. No matter what they tell you & no matter how in love you think they are. They will tell the other guy exactly the same thing. Or they will accept money or drugs and have transactional sex. They may be completely sincere in the moment, but only for that moment.

Ditto the lovey dovey text convos. They want to keep you on the line. They like the fancy perks you provide and are inclined to give sex to continue the perks.

One of my oldest tenured friends married a Penthouse centerfold...had a son with her. It lasted a tumultuous 5 years with her eventually leaving him with the latest guy she was screwing. She didn't get much since he didn't have much then in his early 30s.

One of my ex husbands best friends from the night club ended up married to one of the strippers at a girlie bar where he had risen to GM. It lasted less than 2 years and ended exactly like my friend's marriage to the centerfold.

My ex's friend had a stripper who was getting a bachelors degree and so on. She was pretty, had a great body & was intelligent.

Women who will take their clothes off for strangers for money have so cheapened their value & ability to bond that they have a similar pathos of trying to patch that hole in their soul with transactions. This for that. Always. And they always are willing to take advantage of anyone for their own perceived benefit.

My ex husband had a stripper after him before we started dating. She wanted the cache of being seen out & about as girlfriend of such & such night club. She was super sweet because she wanted something off him. Not because she had a genuine personal interest in him. He saw through her and wasn't about to seriously get involved with such a woman, but he said she was down for whatever he wanted.

He knew better than to consider a w h o r e for a serious relationship. He avoided the crazy that both his buddy and my friend went through. Both those guys (predictably) got their hearts ripped out, stomped on & handed back. Nobody but them was terribly shocked.

Same chit with this chick I went out with twice I met at a previous job I worked at. Found out she'd worked as a "waitress" at a popular strip club here in NY (mentioned in several rap songs). SAME attitude. Talked about money, the finer things etc yet this chick who claimed high status never so much as even attempted to fake offer even so much as the tip after drinks. Needless to say I took the heads up soon as she mentioned strip club and didn't bother with her anymore. Saw her a few months later while still working at my previous job and she walked up looking hot as hell, made small talk, helped her out with what she needed (customer) then basically hinted at me to see her again when I mentioned nothing of seeing her again saying oh well I guess I'll see you around. To which I replied: Yea. See ya.

True story.

 

[Mike32ct]

By dating, do we mean a plate or a girlfriend?

If she's a non-exclusive plate, I think I would very slightly prefer that she wasn't paid for it. In that context, ok, she's a player. Not the worst thing in the world for a plate. It's only weird if she mentions the guy, and he's someone you KNOW. But if she's essentially working as an escort (even "part time"), no thanks.

Now if she's a girlfriend, then she just cheated, period. Doesn't really matter either way. She's done.

 

[bigneil]

Neil neither option is good. Strippers are strippers... He knew better than to consider a w h o r e for a serious relationship. He avoided the crazy that both his buddy and my friend went through. Both those guys (predictably) got their hearts ripped out, stomped on & handed back. Nobody but them was terribly shocked.

I appreciate your insight on this.

I voted that it makes no difference. Women are all compensated in some manner if they agree to have sex.

The problem I have with the "stripper = bad" argument is that it implies that "non stripper = better". Now if that were true, where are all these young, gorgeous but loyal women who are implied to exist because strippers are the bottom of the barrel? Besides Be Excellent that is. Isn't this like calling them non-unicorns?

Also, wouldn't the above imply I could never have had 6+ month relationships with strippers to begin with? In most cases you can substitute "hot girl" for stripper and you'll see most people are saying "(hot girl)s can never be trusted!"

Those guys Be Excellent mentioned got hurt because they got over invested and obviously didn't have equally hot options. Maybe those girls were out of their league. Did those girls ever love anyone?

 

[bigneil]

Strippers and prostitutes are social outcasts for whom even the most minimal social rules do not apply(they believe). A prostitute being the farthest removed from anything resembling social control.

In Sexploytation Matthew Fitzgerald argues that prostitutes are the honest counterpart to the modern woman. Tell me how a wife is better? Women don't despise prostitutes because they sell sex. They despise them because they sell it so cheap.

This review nails it:

You will not find an extensive bibliography or statistics here, but the author speaks from the gut, discussing the following points:
1. If a man acts like a jerk, he is a jerk. Except if he has a lot of money; then women consider him a "challenge".
2. Women are not interested in finding a true loving partner; they are only interested in finding a free ride through life, financed by a man.
3. Women are raised to essentially use their bodies as a bargaining tool.

 

[bigneil]

Neil... you are seriously delusional if you expect real loyalty out of these sort of women... No matter what they tell you & no matter how in love you think they are. They may be completely sincere in the moment, but only for that moment. Ditto the lovey dovey text convos. They want to keep you on the line. They like the fancy perks you provide and are inclined to give sex to continue the perks.

Wait, so you are saying that she faked our time together, faked the 99 rated photos, faked the 10 girls who threw themselves at me since we've been dating, faked the 19 year old prom queen who fell in love with me, faked her romantic dialog for 6 months (and about 400 texts where she was always sweet), faked 10 dates, faked the other girl at her work who confessed being in love with me, faked her first orgasm, faked about 25 more orgasms, faked the "I love you" and faked the sex marathon until she couldn't walk? And she faked them all so convincingly that even though I'm an expert at reading people, she continues to have me fooled?

Be Excellent, would you please come over and fake all those things for the next 6 months? I promise I won't care.

If I told you I was an exact copy of myself and the same in every way, would you care?

Question for Be Excellent, if you were a bartender and served (and photographed) me on 3 dates with this girl, would you be able to tell me whether she really loved me or was using me? If you later told me you loved me, would that mean you thought the other girl did also?

 

[BeExcellent]

Neil non-strippers ARE better all other things being equal.

Strippers have social stigma, are outcasts from other women, are not well thought of. Anna Nicole Smith was never taken seriously by Houston society Neil. She may not have been a stripper but she might as well have been the way she was rejected. Texas Monthly awarded her the Bum Steer award when she was still alive, but she swore blind she loved her husband. Maybe she did. She clearly loved his money & the notoriety and fame her lifestyle brought her. She leveraged her beauty very well. She was beautiful enough to extract financial security from a billionaire.

Your girl is no Anna. If she were she would still be in Vegas, would be in glossy magazines & you'd never see her again.

The hot young women who have their lives together don't see you Neil. You aren't on their radar screen. They have more options than they know what to do with who are good looking wealthy or successful or family money or ambitious & well connected and who are handsome & in their age group. That is who they choose from.

These girls largely get locked down in high school or college and you will never have access to them as someone their dads' age.

But they exist. Go to the churches in River Oaks on Sunday Neil. The young wives with their dashing young husbands and their beautiful children are everywhere. THAT is where the best young women end up. With the best young men. And none of these women were strippers. They never needed to be.

The men I know who got f u c k e d over had tons of options. *I* was an option to the man who married the centerfold - I dropped him when he wanted to hang out with her 25 years ago. He openly regrets that and to this day sees me as "the one who got away". Meanwhile he bangs 20-25 year olds in Vegas and finds it boring. The man is drowning in hot young girls but his love life sucks. He's told me this himself.

The best girls know their value & move on when a deal breaker appears. And when they go - they are gone.

These men who I know made the same mistake you are making. Thinking you are a special snow flake to a woman who exists by taking advantage of men; expert salesmanship combined with sex & attention so she gets what she wants. You can pay me a nickel when you get your heart ripped out too. I pray I'm wrong. Keep your eyes open, do not ask questions you don't want the answer to, go watch "Casino" again, and enjoy it while it lasts.

Are wives like this? The crappy ones are to be sure. The good ones are a universe different. My guess is your ex wife was crappy so you don't see the difference.

None of your scenarios matter. When you pick from a cess pool everything is crap. That shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[BeExcellent]

In short Neil your job is to recognize the cess pool and plan/behave accordingly.

Right now you don't see it for what it is, and that WILL bite you in the azz just as it did the men I told you about.

 

[sazc]

@bigneil I'm not a stripper. Never have been and don't see it in my future. I don't know the women in your life and I refuse to pass judgement on them.

What I will say is, I certainly can identify a "mark" and behave in a manner that keeps him on the financial and emotional hook for, at least, a while.

I say 'a while' because I have never done this, so I couldn't presume to tell you how long I can pull the act off. I have a conscience, that kind of behavior is not in me.

What I can tell you is that, there have been several times in my life where I realize the man standing in front of me is mine for the taking, as long as I behave in a suggestion manner that makes him feel as if I am really into him. These men make make it obvious. You pay attention, they shower you with gifts, luxury, etc.

Some chicks are really good at it.

IDK a thing about your chick. The only way to possibly test it is to try and lock her down, LTR style. You say you see her once a week. You have no idea what she really does those six other days

 

[sazc]

Question for Be Excellent, if you were a bartender and served (and photographed) me on 3 dates with this girl, would you be able to tell me whether she really loved me or was using me? If you later told me you loved me, would that mean you thought the other girl did also?

@BeExcellent would never presume that she could assess if a person was in love based on seeing the couple interact a few times. You never know who people really are based on what they show in public. She would also never decide she was in love with a man based on the behavior of another female. Only behaviorally dysfunctional females act like this. You definitely don't want to date females who operate in this manner. Real love doesn't require competition to occur. It's steady, reliable and intuitively known between two people, not reactionary based on fear of loss

 

[sazc]

If you want to know how loyal and in love your woman is with you, withdraw all that is financial, and shower all that is emotional and verbally supportive. If she's in love with Neil, the rest won't matter

 

[bigneil]

@bigneil
IDK a thing about your chick. You say you see her once a week. You have no idea what she really does those six other days

If she shows up on the 7th day to see me again (26 straight weeks), whatever she did those other 6 days is a good thing.

Here is how I rate her:

1) Is she gorgeous?
2) Does she provide unlimited sex when I am with her?
3) Does her vagina smell and taste like candy?
4) Does she show up for dates at the exact times I propose?
5) Does she tell me she loves me?
6) Do I savor every moment in her presence?
7) Does my heart sing when I wake up next to her?

Until another girl provides all of the above, I will assume strippers are the best.

 

[devilkingx2]

well if it was for money and I get a cut, then it's okay