When you start to look aged

[Stagger Lee]

Age isn't that important. Not sure what the source of your problems are, Stagger, but I doubt that they are fully connected with age. Too many cases of successful older DJs. Women aren't programmed to seek out youth cues like men are. Many of the things they ARE attracted to are better exemplified in an older male - like power, status, experience, and maturity.

Sorry but there's no evidence of what you're saying. Sure multimillionaires and such can get a younger, attractive woman to be her provider, but we can't all be 1%, just as we cant all be a top 20% looking male although that is much more common. Where are the successful older DJs? They don't exist in my city or any that I've been. The bars are full of 20-something men. All I see is some younger, better looking guys with the young attractive women and old guys that have an old and ugly girlfriend or wife.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I just ignore it. Ignore what you can't change. Most girls will ignore it too, but some won't and you can't do or change anything about that either. When you were younger, girls didn't like you because you were young either, and you can't change that (some) either. You just have to be "I don't give a fvck." I've had so much pvssy that I guess it doesn't really matter to me if I never get sex again. It's great, but if she's not into me, then get lost. I don't want her. You just move forward and don't 2nd guess yourself. Try to say what you want to say and let reality lay where it lays. "Do what you want and say what you feel, cause those who mind, don't matter, and those who matter, don't mind" - Dr Suess.

 

[user43770]

You've only mentioned bars and online dating, which are both well known for shallow, vapid women. Have you tried meeting women elsewhere?

 

[Stagger Lee]

You've only mentioned bars and online dating, which are both well known for shallow, vapid women. Have you tried meeting women elsewhere?

Yes the women are probably more shallow and vapid online and at bars. But, it doesn't explain that I can get women online interested in meeting and upon seconds after looking me in the face in person they become cold fish nowadays. I treat online and bars as a bellwether on where my attracting ability stands because there are numerous test samples. I found it to be true, if you can pick up there you can pick up every where and the inverse.

Poonani, I agree with you that's the attitude to have. The thing is I'm kind of between positions of I can keep trying and getting nothing or I can just give up on women since there's no return on my efforts.

 

[user43770]

The thing is I'm kind of between positions of I can keep trying and getting nothing or I can just give up on women since there's no return on my efforts.

Yes, those are your two options

So most chicks don't want to bang you upon first sight anymore. Welcome to the masses.

Suck it up and alter your approach.

 

[raider87]

My problem is the opposite. I can attract girls in person but get nothing on social media and tinder.

 

[Stagger Lee]

So most chicks don't want to bang you upon first sight anymore. Welcome to the masses.

Suck it up and alter your approach.

Women, particularly on an online dating meet up, pretty much do decide they would want to bang based on first sight they just keep it under their hat. Certainly they decide they do not want to bang you on sight. That's the problem here. And there's really nothing you can do to change that. I thought guys figured this out by now.

I've been altering and developing my approach for years, to arrive at the approach I have. I can't really alter my face.

 

[Stagger Lee]

My problem is the opposite. I can attract girls in person but get nothing on social media and tinder.

Maybe you need better pics or aren't photogenic and look better in person. All that really matters is whether you can attract in person. I never had luck with Tinder or most social media but have had some with online dating sites. I'd just stick with meeting girls in person if you attract girls. You get way better girls. Online is mostly garbage.

 

[samspade]

This is a tired old debate. It is common red pill knowledge that looks and age are far less of a factor for women than for men. The caveat of course is that a man must take some care of his looks/body as he ages. That's in addition to having game, resources, etc. Attraction for women is a c0cktail of factors. Having one can mitigate the absence of another, but it's best that a man work on all of them. This has been covered many times in this forum.

Stagger, if you're not pulling the right girls, adjust your game rather than throwing up your arms and saying "it must be my looks." Tyte Eyez is right, that IS self-defeating. You're incorrect about women deciding they want to bang you "on sight." That honestly makes me question your interactions with women if you're quitting that early. If it were all about visuals, game tools like rapport building, negs, teasing, kino, humor, wouldn't exist - to say nothing of civilization itself. (Yes...think about it.) C'mon bro, I know you know this.

 

[CrashOverRide]

Women, particularly on an online dating meet up, pretty much do decide they would want to bang based on first sight they just keep it under their hat. Certainly they decide they do not want to bang you on sight. That's the problem here. And there's really nothing you can do to change that. I thought guys figured this out by now.

I've been altering and developing my approach for years, to arrive at the approach I have. I can't really alter my face.

Stagger like myself I can tell you are actually out there in the real world actually meeting women... Those of us who actually do this can be realists about this whole game and know better than to subscribe to the simple theory of having good game will conquer all...

Of course having good game is key.. but more often than not it will not meet external factors that aren't in your favor.

Can I ask what the size of your sample group has been since you've been experiencing negative results lately though? Its very possible you just may have hit a very bad patch up women... I've had this happen often... I've gone through streaks where I felt like I was Steph Curry and couldn't miss... to streaks where I felt like I couldn't make a foul shot.

To put it perspective I recently hooked up with a hot girl in her 20s..... and got dissed by an average looking girl at best in her 40s....

At the end of the day I have found that the truest statement of them all is that "its a numbers game..."

 

[Stagger Lee]

Stagger like myself I can tell you are actually out there in the real world actually meeting women... Those of us who actually do this can be realists about this whole game and know better than to subscribe to the simple theory of having good game will conquer all...

Of course having good game is key.. but more often than not it will not meet external factors that aren't in your favor.

Yes exactly. And it appears you are out in the real world actually meeting women.You have to have the minimum level of physical/visual attraction from first sight or nothing else matters. If you don't they just won't buy anything you're selling them. Where game comes in, game got me 6 or 7 meet ups in the past week or so from online, it gave me the ability to read the females at first sight.

Can I ask what the size of your sample group has been since you've been experiencing negative results lately though? Its very possible you just may have hit a very bad patch up women... I've had this happen often... I've gone through streaks where I felt like I was Steph Curry and couldn't miss... to streaks where I felt like I couldn't make a foul shot.

Sure, it's not unusual for dating to go through phases of feast or famine. I've seen that happen often. I'd have to say the number is around 30 over many months to a few years. It's definitely not just a phase.

To put it perspective I recently hooked up with a hot girl in her 20s..... and got dissed by an average looking girl at best in her 40s....

At the end of the day I have found that the truest statement of them all is that "its a numbers game..."

Yes, if an unattractive 40-year old rejects me that would sting but I know from experience I could turn right around and pick up a better looking 20-year old. It is a numbers game. The problem now it's become a very bad and untenable numbers game. I asked what others success rate was once they got a meet up for online dating. I remember and would expect a near 50% rate. I've been lately having around a 90% failure rate. That's down around cold approach at a bar levels. Online dating meet ups is a very inefficient way to be doing essentially cold approaches.

 

[samspade]

Ohhh, I thought you guys were talking about imaginary approaches from game theory KJs! Never mind.

 

[Stagger Lee]

This is a tired old debate. It is common red pill knowledge that looks and age are far less of a factor for women than for men. The caveat of course is that a man must take some care of his looks/body as he ages. That's in addition to having game, resources, etc. Attraction for women is a c0cktail of factors. Having one can mitigate the absence of another, but it's best that a man work on all of them. This has been covered many times in this forum.

That's not red pill but in line with mainstream/blue pill too. Experience lead me to reject at least a decade ago that looks/age don't matter much to women. That's why it's an old debate because reality doesn't support looks/age not mattering much to women. I was one of the early ones to say looks/age matter a lot to women.

Stagger, if you're not pulling the right girls, adjust your game rather than throwing up your arms and saying "it must be my looks." Tyte Eyez is right, that IS self-defeating. You're incorrect about women deciding they want to bang you "on sight." That honestly makes me question your interactions with women if you're quitting that early. If it were all about visuals, game tools like rapport building, negs, teasing, kino, humor, wouldn't exist - to say nothing of civilization itself. (Yes...think about it.) C'mon bro, I know you know this.

I don't agree with a word of that. There has to be a minimum level of visual attraction before anything else matters. Most of those 'game tools' are just fillers for the female to get comfort, warmed up and a little bonded to you, and much of them do little some of it counterproductive especially when the female finds you not physically attractive enough. I found I didn't need 'tools' and long ago discarded most of the PUA dogma. If the female doesn't find you visual attractive on first sight then she doesn't value anything about you personality/game wise beyond friendship and everything is filtered negatively towards attraction.

 

[Stagger Lee]

You need to improve in other areas commensurate with a decrease in one area.

I just don't think it works that way. If females find your looks aren't good enough then they're just not going to acknowledge efforts to 'improve' game/personality. If age drops your appearance a point, earning more money or 'improving' your personality/game doesn't compensate. Improving looks will compensate for money and personality though. There's just no way to improve my face really.

Also, stop using OLD and even going to clubs, its like 90% about looks there. The non-cheating negativity posts are almost exclusively by guys who use OLD lol.

I partially agree but think it is about 90% about looks and appearance everywhere.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I'm one of the "age denyers."

I absolutely 100% believe that I've gotten better with age. I've never focused on diminishing attraction levels.

I'm glad if you have gotten more attractive to women with age and hope it's not just a belief. That's not been the case for any guy that I've know in reality much past age 35. I deal in results and facts I've observe and form beliefs around that, not want I want to believe or wish is true.

No one will answer any questions or give any details. What are guys' success ratio on online meet ups? All I gotten was older guys saying they're doing great or better past their mid 30's, or, the advice to don't online date.

 

[speed dawg]

I think I've done better the older I've gotten. I've filled out, and my wrinkles look pretty bad a$$ to me. I'm balding too, but I kind of like it, and before long I'm going to start shaving my head (I keep it short anyway). I look stronger than I ever have, and due to my flexibility training, I feel better than I ever have (even after having back surgery in 2008).

Now, I am married, so I'm not out picking up young millenials in bars either. But I'm f*cking my wife more often than ever before, I feel like I have more testosterone than ever (I am actively trying to raise it naturally, so that helps), and in general just think I'm the best I've been in a while. Of course, you have to compare apples to apples....when I was 25 I was just learning game, and now at 34 I feel like I'm pretty good at it.

Just like others have said though, status is key, and expected the other you get. Or at least, an aged confidence or maturity level. To tell you the truth, I'm not real interested in chicken-head bar flies where, like you say, vanity rules. I do much better in other situations, always have.

 

[Stagger Lee]

You're ignoring the fact that a 7 can get a male 10 for sex basically on demand...women have a diminishing marginal utility for looks bc it is EASY to get compared to other things, even game.

I'm not ignoring that at all. Because a woman can get sex from a guy 3 points and sometimes higher on demand, she has no utility or demand for a guy 1 point higher. If females demand males be a minimum of 6 and they see me as a or 5.5 or a 5, then they have no use for me. I probably was a 6 or 6.5 to women up until my mid 30's, but now apparently sub-6 and below the minimum threshold for looks. Another guy might have been 7 and dropped down to a 6 by age 40. That he is still meeting the minimum threshold is why he doesn't see aging as a problem.

If you don't meet the threshold of looks then the car you drive, personality and game and wealth within reason will not compensate.

 

[zekko]

I think I've done better the older I've gotten. I've filled out, and my wrinkles look pretty bad a$$ to me.

I may have wrinkles, but I haven't really noticed them. Bottom line is that as men get older, as long as they stay in shape, their appearance may change, but that doesn't mean that they are getting unattractive. As men get older they tend to start looking more rugged, and it can be a look that is appealing to women. Clint Eastwood comes to mind as an example. A man's experiences and character can get written on his face as he ages. It's now like a woman where we want them to look fresh and young.

Talking about "looks" for a male is not necessarily the same as saying he looks young. A man can have some age on him and still look good, just in another way. A man can look tough and weathered, and it can be appealing. Again, unlike for a woman.

 

[Stagger Lee]

"
Because a woman can get sex from a guy 3 points and sometimes higher on demand, she has no utility or demand for a guy 1 point higher."

Because of your false assumptions about looks, you completely missed my point about how women devalue looks. So, you cannot understand how women think and how they calculate value. You act like you've never seen women date down in looks. Bizarre?

No because of your false assumption about looks I reject that women devalue looks any more than they devalue any and everything else about men. And no I don't see women dating down in looks as much as dating up. I think men underrate other men and overrate the women and themselves.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Your theory requires all men here to have no clue about the dozens of mismatches in the man's favor that we see everyday but you somehow know how to objectively value looks haha. Is that exponentially more plausible that you overvalue men's looks no homo, or that you are a relentless defeatist

You see mismatches in the man's favor everyday, but I don't see that. More importantly I don't see younger women with older men either. You're 25 and at your peak age of youth and looks. What would you know what it's like when you're over 35?