ELMER_GANTRY
Don Juan
an ugly guy usually has an ugly wife or gf.....I've seen some ugly guys with hot women, but then again those guys have lots of money. If those guys didn't have the dough, those chicks wouldn't be with them.
"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.
When will you guys realize that LOOKS are almost all that matters!?
- Thread starter latino158
- Start date
"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."
Attraction runs on a clock.
She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.
The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."
One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.
Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.
There's a whole lot of denial in this thread.
I am getting older, my hair is slowly thinning, I wear glasses. I will not deny that these are disadvantages.
Of course looks matter a great deal. No ifs or buts are gonna change that, I don't see what the big deal is. Why do you get pissed off at the OP for stating the obvious? You are taking all your anger at this fact and directing it at him. Shooting the messenger, it is called. I am disappointed - this forum is all about self-improvement and insight, and then we see this kind of reaction.
When I was scrawny I didn't deny that muscles give you better chances. I didn't say that it's all about confidence, it's all about what you project to a woman (mind control?), you are mean, money matters too so there, I've seen a lot of scrawny men with total babes, etc etc. At the end of the day being scrawny was still a huge disadvantage. So is being unattractive, of course. But what is even uglier is denying a fact, any fact, because you don't want it to be true. Accepting uncomfortable facts helps you grow wiser.
I am getting older, my hair is slowly thinning, I wear glasses. I will not deny that these are disadvantages.
Of course looks matter a great deal. No ifs or buts are gonna change that, I don't see what the big deal is. Why do you get pissed off at the OP for stating the obvious? You are taking all your anger at this fact and directing it at him. Shooting the messenger, it is called. I am disappointed - this forum is all about self-improvement and insight, and then we see this kind of reaction.
When I was scrawny I didn't deny that muscles give you better chances. I didn't say that it's all about confidence, it's all about what you project to a woman (mind control?), you are mean, money matters too so there, I've seen a lot of scrawny men with total babes, etc etc. At the end of the day being scrawny was still a huge disadvantage. So is being unattractive, of course. But what is even uglier is denying a fact, any fact, because you don't want it to be true. Accepting uncomfortable facts helps you grow wiser.
goldengoose
Senior Don Juan
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Looks DO matter. First thing a girl notices is how you look. Then all the other comes into play. money, personality, game etc. Do you not deny that a good looking guy has it easier than an average guy and the average guy has to woirk harder for it? I'm getting laid a lot and lot of the guys I go to school with aren't. The reason is LOOKS
This thread is way too defeatist. I'm in no way a sunshine pumper, but a major reason why this website thrives today is based on trying to get away from the insecure, "Well she couldn't possibly want date me".
Of course you'll have a jump on other guys if you are good looking and anyone who will tell you otherwise is lying.
That being said, it's like anything in life, if you admit defeat before even trying then what's the point.
I'm not trying to be disingenious here and suggest that every guy can walk up to a victoria secret model and standa a chance, but rather I'm suggesting that guys often (myself included) sell themselves very short.
Hell, I suppose I'd be considered above average in the looks department, but my skill with women isn't as high as perhaps it should based solely on my looks. I've only gotten more comfortable in my own skin where I'm much better in my interactions and come off more smoothly.
It's about being comfortable and ocne you can do that sure you'll hit a ceiling but it's not going to be self-imposed but rather of selective choice because you'll realize that insanely good looking women often have massive baggage and there are good looking women of quality who while they may be a 7-7.5 in the looks department they are 10 when it comes to respect, devition, and behavior.
Of course you'll have a jump on other guys if you are good looking and anyone who will tell you otherwise is lying.
That being said, it's like anything in life, if you admit defeat before even trying then what's the point.
I'm not trying to be disingenious here and suggest that every guy can walk up to a victoria secret model and standa a chance, but rather I'm suggesting that guys often (myself included) sell themselves very short.
Hell, I suppose I'd be considered above average in the looks department, but my skill with women isn't as high as perhaps it should based solely on my looks. I've only gotten more comfortable in my own skin where I'm much better in my interactions and come off more smoothly.
It's about being comfortable and ocne you can do that sure you'll hit a ceiling but it's not going to be self-imposed but rather of selective choice because you'll realize that insanely good looking women often have massive baggage and there are good looking women of quality who while they may be a 7-7.5 in the looks department they are 10 when it comes to respect, devition, and behavior.
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
SoSuaveDude
Senior Don Juan
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- Nov 28, 2010
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explain?georgie24 said:
As an ugly guy, I can assure you that looks are the deciding factor outside of money and social status. The only so-called game that works for me is when the girl likes me before I open my mouth. How is that accomplished? Style and looks. That's it. You can scope these girls out easily based on their body language when they first see you.
It takes a ton of pressure off of me. I can talk about what I want to talk about (from depression to cognitive science to whatever other silly **** I want to talk about) and not be thinking "Is what I'm saying attracting her??? Durrrrr, am i telling her the right things?! Am I being alpha enough? Am I impressing her?" She's already attracted to me because she thinks I'm cute due to some interaction between her self-esteem (what she thinks she can actually get and how physically attractive she perceives herself to be) and my looks. It's wonderful. All I need to do is sit there and talk and eventually kiss her. Hopefully she's cool and has a lot in common with me.
It takes a ton of pressure off of me. I can talk about what I want to talk about (from depression to cognitive science to whatever other silly **** I want to talk about) and not be thinking "Is what I'm saying attracting her??? Durrrrr, am i telling her the right things?! Am I being alpha enough? Am I impressing her?" She's already attracted to me because she thinks I'm cute due to some interaction between her self-esteem (what she thinks she can actually get and how physically attractive she perceives herself to be) and my looks. It's wonderful. All I need to do is sit there and talk and eventually kiss her. Hopefully she's cool and has a lot in common with me.
This debate reminds me of some of the things I read on my marketing forums. I know guys who have to have the latest website with the best flash animations and the best sales videos and will spend thousands to have it because they feel its going to attract customers. And it will. Looks do matter....but then there are guys with websites that are little more than templates who make out like bandits because their site provides the quality content and says the right things that compel people to buy from them. Would they sell more if they had a highly attractive design? Of course. Would the one's with the best design do better if they had the sales copy and the proper content? Of course. Are they both making money? OF COURSE! There will always be a customer for what you're selling. And that's what it boils down to. Are you earning or yearning? If you're yearning, improve what's lacking so you can start earning.
"She's Out of Your League"
You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.
Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.
She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.
Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.
This debate reminds me of some of the things I read on my marketing forums. I know guys who have to have the latest website with the best flash animations and the best sales videos and will spend thousands to have it because they feel its going to attract customers. And it will. Looks do matter....but then there are guys with websites that are little more than templates who make out like bandits because their site provides the quality content and says the right things that compel people to buy from them. Would they sell more if they had a highly attractive design? Of course. Would the one's with the best design do better if they had the sales copy and the proper content? Of course. Are they both making money? OF COURSE! There will always be a customer for what you're selling. And that's what it boils down to. Are you earning or yearning? If you're yearning, improve what's lacking so you can start earning.
Which women? How many of you piss and moan over ugly ass rockstars and rappers with 9s & 10s. Yup. Looks sure broke those guys. Oh wait, they have money and status. Looks, money, status, game. Of these game is the cheapest and easiest to acquire.blueline said:
Hey if you got the looks. Awesome! I have friends who have the look and they have no problem pulling chics. The guy in my crew with game and looks pulls whatever he wants. The guy with just looks and total AFC game gets chics and can't keep them. The guy with no looks but decent game the might not be 10s but he does okay (that would be me) and the guys with no looks and no game, well let's be honest...they have massive porn collections.
It's an old saying...get in where you fit in. I know I'm average at best, but hey I get average girls and I'm cool with that. I've pulled better, but its too much work for me. For a better looking, richer, or higher status guy, probably not as much. But the thing to know is this...you are you. You can't change anything about yourself physically, all you can do is adjust your attitude about the situation and go forward. You can let it break you mentally or you can overcome it mentally. Like I heard one girl say about a friend of mine....why the ugly dudes gotta be so damn ****y? She says this about the guy she's dating! hahahahaha! Because game works baby, game works!
Gray The Prince
Master Don Juan
Looks definately do matter, they just aren't everything. I relized that after I got serious about football and gotten bigger and received more attention. Before, I started hitting the gym, girls mostly ignored me. Now, I have some telling me that they didn't think i would like them because they thought I'd be too good-looking for them. Before the gym, these same type of girls wouldn't even give me a second look.
OP is speaking the truth to a good extent. Here's another example.
I was in the club Wednesday night and this HB7.5 Asian girl was on this tall lanky, awkward Indian Guy. (No offense to you Indian DJs, just proving a point with the most recent experience.) As soon as I tried to get up on her friend, she got jealous, left the Indian guy and got on me, and gave me a lap dance. The Indian guy glared at me for a bit, and I heard him say, "I need to go to the gym."
So that proves the point that looks do matter.
OP is speaking the truth to a good extent. Here's another example.
I was in the club Wednesday night and this HB7.5 Asian girl was on this tall lanky, awkward Indian Guy. (No offense to you Indian DJs, just proving a point with the most recent experience.) As soon as I tried to get up on her friend, she got jealous, left the Indian guy and got on me, and gave me a lap dance. The Indian guy glared at me for a bit, and I heard him say, "I need to go to the gym."
So that proves the point that looks do matter.
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
Mike32ct
Master Don Juan
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Any guy who says looks don't matter has never overheard females talking to each other. When women are talking in a group about a guy, you hear things like:
Is he tall? Is he cute? Is he hot? Is he athletic?
I cringe when I hear that women are LESS into looks than men. I believe women are MORE into looks than men ever will be. (Of course money and status can compensate.)
Another way to look at is this: at a strip club, the men looking at the hot dancer are relatively calm. At a male strip show, the women go absolutely crazy. Tell me who is more hung up on looks.
Lastly, remember that when it's last call at the bar, a man's standards go down, but a female's standards go up.
Is he tall? Is he cute? Is he hot? Is he athletic?
I cringe when I hear that women are LESS into looks than men. I believe women are MORE into looks than men ever will be. (Of course money and status can compensate.)
Another way to look at is this: at a strip club, the men looking at the hot dancer are relatively calm. At a male strip show, the women go absolutely crazy. Tell me who is more hung up on looks.
Lastly, remember that when it's last call at the bar, a man's standards go down, but a female's standards go up.
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OPs thread title and what he said in his post are two different things. Do they matter? Sure, to some people. To different degrees.
Are they "almost all that matters"? Nah. The only chicks I know that would sleep with a good looking jackass are the plain ones who are looking for self validation by sleeping with a guy way hotter than them.
Are they "almost all that matters"? Nah. The only chicks I know that would sleep with a good looking jackass are the plain ones who are looking for self validation by sleeping with a guy way hotter than them.
Gray The Prince said:
Ah. This is where the looks debate gets even more fun. Now some will debate facial structure, some body and muclemass, some hair eyes and noses. The Facial Symetry Crew comes out and of course, also Genentics, then the male fashionistas. It's endless. I've seen guys here get minute about why one little thing prevents women from loving them. It's just sad really.
Gray The Prince
Master Don Juan
Yeah, I'm medium-toned dark (I'm Black lol) and I always hear guys my color and darker complain how girls (not just black girls) prefer light-skinned black guys and one of my light-skinned nerd AFC friend complain that dark-skinned black guys get the girls.Warrior74 said:
Lol, I'm bracing myself for the rush of all of these butthurt posts that are about to come soon.
nismo-4
Moderator
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People who say looks don't matter are either in denial or are selling some pua material.
A woman knows within 5 minutes of meeting you whether she'll f**k you. If you don't have the looks, more than likely the girl has a hidden agenda, meaning she's trying to boost her ego, get you in a platonic relationship, keep you as someone to diktease, see how much she can get from your wallet, etc. Personality and game come after the girl gives you a chance.
Falcon 25 has made a realist post!
A woman knows within 5 minutes of meeting you whether she'll f**k you. If you don't have the looks, more than likely the girl has a hidden agenda, meaning she's trying to boost her ego, get you in a platonic relationship, keep you as someone to diktease, see how much she can get from your wallet, etc. Personality and game come after the girl gives you a chance.
Falcon 25 has made a realist post!
"Stop Asking Your Friends What to Text Her"
Your buddy Dave has been single for three years and thinks "hey u up" is a valid strategy. Your other buddy Mike just got dumped and told you to "just be yourself."
You showed them her text. You asked them to decode the emoji. You drafted four responses and sent the screenshot to the group chat for a vote.
She's been waiting forty minutes.
Put the phone down. Stop crowdsourcing your love life. Type something that sounds like you. Hit send. Then go do literally anything else with your evening.