When to go

[iqqi]

The question I set forth, is to men (and the few ladies) who know about LTRs. This is not a when to stop seeing a chick you've dated a few times. This is, when do you know you must leave the one that you love. Your best and only friend.

This question is both general, and personal. You can respond either way.

When do you decide that enough is enough, and that it is the best thing to do? Some of you may have read all you need right there. Others may want backround to my personal reasons for asking this question. Those of you who just want to answer in general, read no further, as I am emotional, and the story will be long with details!

-----------BEWARE: A BOOK FOLLOWS!----------------------

by the way, for you newbies-i am a girl.

I have been in a LTR for almost 2 years now. We are finally about to move in to a place of my dreams. We have a flourishing little company we started together. Everyone is jealous of our relationship, and we get stopped all the time, compliments all the time. People are making the marriage jokes.

So here is the painful truth of the matter. He messed up. Alot. When we first met we had both JUST gotten out of really psychotic and awful relationships. We both stated we weren't looking for that right now. But that is exactly what it went in to. Over the course of us both denying our relationship's progress, he slept around, alot of it behind my back. I would find out (he can be extremely stupid), I would be really hurt, and leave. He had the freedom to do what he wanted, but never behind my back having me assume we were "working" on what we wanted and should do. That is just indecent. I would never do that to anyone if I cared what they thought about me, or if I cared about their trust!

Maybe I should have left it at that. But after a break, some introspection, we took a short trip together, and when we got back, we made it official.

He cheated on me. With a chick he had messed around with when we were just seeing each other. I didn't find out about it until a few months later. I didn't get it, I couldn't understand, but I was really ready for it to be over. By this time though, he had done everything he could to get in good with my friends and family. When I left this time, he took it really hard. After a few days of not getting out of bed or eating, only phoning and crying and saying sorry, writing notes to my friends saying he was sorry, he's not like that, he is just messed up from his past failed relationships, ect, -everyone sympathized with him.

All of my friends had just broken up with their sh!tty LTR's, so I was ready to quit, and knew I'd have that support. But they were all convinced that he was the one good guy out of all of our LTR's, and that I should do it for our relationship that was turning out so great. I love him, I know he loves me, and I did not want our relationship to be for nothing. So halfheartedly, I gave it another chance. I made him show me for a month, that he was serious, and he came through.

And so now here we are. 6 or 7 months have passed. Like I said before, sunny and dandy with marriage jokes. But every now and then what he did before will pop up. We are both in the public eye alot with what we do, and things that he did resurface occasionally. Sometimes I just get so upset remembering what he did, I just want to say "I can't. I can't do it anymore!" But I never say anything, because I love our life right now. And the next day I will feel I am so glad I gave him another chance.

Last night we were at an event of his, and the girl he cheated on me with showed up. (She also slept with his friend, who was there). I took it badly, I wanted to leave, he didn't, it got ugly. I told him our relationship will never be what it could have been, and that it wasn't even til it was even. We haven't really spoken since. I read something he wrote last night, he seemed just so upset he ever messed up like that. He feels like he did everything he should have done to make up for it. I feel like it will always be there in the back of my mind, and that he hasn't done enough to make up for it. Just "not doing it" isn't making up for anything, and it keeps rearing its ugly head back up.

I am a very moral person, and I couldn't ever really cheat on him back. But that also means I just can't understand it either. I can't seem to understand why he did it, so I feel like I can't really get through it! I wish I could just leave, but this has been the best relationship I have ever had, and the worst! I am so happy with my life, our business, our new home, but I am a very moral, and passionate person, and I don't know if I can really forgive that, especially when it keeps reappearing.

So, when do you leave? When do you know it is over, no more trying? Or all LTR's this sh!t?

 

[Ricky]

Well cheating on you on one hand is bad.

But remember regardless of morals we are genetically programmed to be polygamous.

I'll be honest I'm a man and there are a few women I've just had sex with nothing more. Most of the time it was with a girl I cared about, but a few times it was with a girl that was nothing more than an upgrade to masturbation.

If the girl was nothing more than a one time pump and done deal and you truly believe there are no feelings and no chance of him doing it again, whats the problem.

The biggest problem with cheating in my mind today is disease and unwanted pregnancy.

 

[coldcoal]

Well hello, Iqqi. Long time no argue. The hand full of woman you have been in my memory tells me you should move on. You're too speculative to get past this, and it is only a matter of time before he morphs from appologetic to resentfull of your nature.

Can you tell me there will never be a time when he snaps and says "get over it"?

 

[OpenMind]

Iqqi,

What the hell are you thinking may I ask?

 

[Bill S. Preston Esq]

Originally posted by coldcoal
Can you tell me there will never be a time when he snaps and says "get over it"?

Exactly. There are 324031-0381-02391209321380213 more guys who are like-minded and will never even consider thinking about doing that.

Don't waste your time over this knucklehead.

 

[TesuqueRed]

If you're wondering about "when", it sounds like you're not there yet but working towards it. Most women who end it that I've seen (and it's mostly women who do the ending) do so after it's already a fact. The actual "ending" of it is something that may take weeks or months to do while they (the women) sort out how to do it, how to handle the social aspects, set up the next relationship (or not), etc.

I'm not making a judgment on that, it's just what I've seen and experienced.

You may want to seek couples therapy if you want to handle the aftermath of his cheating. Flame on that if you (anyone) wants, but whether the relationship survives or not you'll probably come away with something regardless - that is if the counselor is worth anything. If not, it's a waste of time but maybe part of the required end-game festivities.

 

[TesuqueRed]

Going a little off topic here:
This isn't a recommendation, but I think it's common with a lot of guys -- my M.O. is to let inertia take over and let the woman figure out it's over and end it, which occurs after I've known it was over for a little while already. It got this way somewhere in my late 20's. Before that I was shyt-for-brains and lost myself deep into a chick and couldn't figure out what's what.

You can rip on the M.O. of doing nothing until the woman figures it out (I got to where by date #2 I could fairly accurately guess when she would probably move on -- scary that). For whatever reason men and women are different and I think that's how we tend to do it: men just wait it out and women usually do the legwork in ending it.

Unfair--whatever, sure.

Maybe it's because women have more to lose socially, financially, etc. that women tend to handle the prep, setup and actual events ending it. Or maybe it's because women take on "relationship management" to a degree and depth earlier and more intently than men ever do means the end-game naturally falls to them?

How do I know it's over? Usually I can look at someone and think "40 years with you? I don't think so...maybe 3 months." Usually I get a "no" right away or early enough when meeting someone.

Interesting exercise if you want to practice this -- look at everyone near you that you wouldn't consider and assess why you know they wouldn't be a companion candidate. This isn't an intellectual exercise, it occurs in your gut or wherever it happens when you just get a summation internally and know that's just the way it is. Then look at the people you are attracted to and assess in what way you're attracted. This can be many things, but rarely is it on a companionship level, even though you'd love a torrid romance and the like.

I've only met 3-4 women where I didn't get a fairly immediate "no" when considering them for LT (this is post shyt-for-brains era, but even before that I knew it even though I didn't know what I knew.) Mind you, in those 3-4 cases I didn't get a "yes", I just didn't get a "no" -- more like a "???", you know? And that "???" felt like I was close to a true rolling of Fortune's dice, which is an incomparable feeling.

But I'm like 40+ and never married - mostly somewhat a loner like many in my family going way back, with GFs every so often - right? - so maybe my viewpoint isn't what you want to follow.



Anyway, good to see you back Iq. Wyldfire's back too, so I had to come out of retirement briefly. I love it when the ladies mix it up. Thing is, I pop back in after an eternity and read that the boards have gone somewhat stale. Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. I do notice that WF et al don't seem to get the same level of flame treatment like they once did.

 

[Wyldfire]

The question you need to ask yourself is if you can trust him and forgive the past and never bring it up again. If you say "no" to any of those questions then you should end your relationship.

 

[icepick]

Hey! Sticky icky! What's goin' on?

I don't know if anyone else can solve your problem here, especially me, but I am sure going to put my two cents in if that is alright with you.

I think a main idea that makes the things on this forum so life-changing and powerful is the empowerment given to us to take control of something that has, for all intents and purposes, had us "whipped" in one way or another. In this mythical "DJ land" a man is free to be himself as a man; free from the artificial bindings of society and popular culture. Of course, men are not the only ones that can get caught up in the venomous webs of "shoulds" and "oughts" spewed forth by well-meaning friends and family.

Women actually have this same problem, and much of this "artificial advice" poisons thier perception of a relationship.

We, as men, have had to reinvent the "shoulds" and "oughts" of what it means to be a man in order to bring this mythical "DJ land" to earth, we have learned to trust in our vision of ourselves in order to succeed.

For women, it seems like the yoke they bear is that they need to learn to trust thier OWN vision of how a RELATIONSHIP is, rather than trust the poisioning banter of others.

But this is not really your biggest problem, now is it?

No, you are wondering something different...here, let me tell you how I see it.

From my perspective, it seems as if you are asking us this question:

"My life is GREAT, but there is something bothering me...it is not just the way I would like it to be, and it is bothering me deep down...esteemed friends of sosuave.com, I ask you... SHOULD I SETTLE?"

While I cannot answer this question (only you can), I can give you my perspective.

I think that the most important point in life is the point where you realize that you SHOULD have things just as you want them. As a person, you DO deserve to get what you want. This is an important thing, and it is VERY easy to forget. Sometimes it is all to easy to just say, "close enough" and settle for something that you don't really want, because you don't want to RISK, and you don't need the change, because after all....NOTHING insures that you will indeed be better off, and NOTHING ever can or will.

Whether or not you should settle is up to you, only you know the answers. Just know that you can never know how good things can be if you settle for "good enough for now."

 

[hithard]

Heres the thing with people that cheat.You want them to know how much they have hurt you.But they just dont see it or dont really care.Its funny how you can think of the most poetic $hit to win a loved one back after they found out you cheated on them.Cheated on twice is grinding your dignity and love into the ground.
I thought I could let it go but it never really leaves you.And you can turn into someone that you didnt want to become(bitter,angry etc).Once a cheater always a cheater.The mess of breaking up is worth more than your soul being crushed.You want to know how he can cheat on you when you love him so much.Hmmm ask yourself that question.

 

[Good_ol_boy]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
The question you need to ask yourself is if you can trust him and forgive the past and never bring it up again. If you say "no" to any of those questions then you should end your relationship.

Seems Wyld. beat me to my answer. fundamental to any relationship is trust! If the trust is gone, the relationship is gone. Soooo, consider, "do I trust him"??
There is your answer.

Good Luck!!

 

[NewMan]

You already know the answer - you already know it's over.

What are you holding on for? because you know it will never change and you will never get that feeling back.

Sure you could continue on with the relationship, but you know, that it will never be the same.

If you really listen to yourself, you know what you must do.

 

[thissucks003]

Originally posted by iqqi
So, when do you leave? When do you know it is over, no more trying? Or all LTR's this sh!t?

It's been over for a very long time. You just want to ignore his faults because you believe you have this ideal relationship. You must have VERY LOW SELF-ESTEEM to continue to stay in a relationship with a guy who obviously can't commit to you. He continously fools around behind your back over and over and over, and yet you stay? Get your self respect back and find a guy who would value the relationship and what you have to offer. If your happy taking sloppy thirds fourths and fifth from all of these other women he is banging, by all means stay with the guy who can't keep his d*ck in his pants.

TS

 

[DJDamage]

You need to start fresh.

You are only in this relationship because you are thinking you can't do better.

You take comfort in knowing that being with him is better then taking a chance and looking for someone else.

Once you are in a committed relationship, I don't care if you are a guy or a girl, if you cheat (for whatever reasons) you shouldn't be in a relationship with that person. Why would you cheat if you are being fulfilled? obviously that is not the case.

The longer you keep this charade going the harder it will be to break away.

If he has the wondering eyes now what will happen down the road when you get older and he is surronded by 20's something girls running around?? if he is tempted now, how can he not be tempted then???

 

[CrotchSniffer]

Hmm, I suppose the words "We told you so" will probably come off as gloating, so I will try to be helpful in light of the obvious.

You already know you love him, but you should be wondering if he really, truly loves you. The fact that he has been dipping his magic wand in quite a few hats shows that he has little regard for the possibility of catching STDs and giving them to you, the woman he supposedly loves. *cough* SCUMBAG *cough*

this has been the best relationship I have ever had, and the worst!

A very common assessment...you women seem to fall for guys that make you feel intense emotions, even if those emotions are negative, they still trigger your genetic need for FEELINGS. Now the fact that you have allowed yourself to fall for such a character says a lot more about you than it does about him. Deep down, part of you almost believes that this is what love is...the drama, the intensity of it all. You show all the classic symptoms of a woman with a lot to offer, but held back by her own poor self esteem.

MY ADVICE...

If I were you, I would have left a long time ago, but this is only becaues I believe I deserve better.... a shame you dont feel the same.

Poor iqqi...never learned that we attract certain people in our lives for a reason, to learn about ourselves and face our own ugliness and heal the inner wounds. Stay with him and be prepared for more heartache and doubt. Just remember this wise old proverb my mom told me...

"Trust is like an elaborate stained glass window, it takes ages to build, but only seconds to destroy...and even if you manage to glue the pieces together afterwards, it's never the same.

Good Luck no matter what you choose, though I already know what you are going to do, since history often repeats itself.

Feel free to post your decision and prove me right once again.

Love,

CS

PS - I am still in love with you!

 

[Bonhomme]

So, what do you EXPECT?

If you want to undo the past, lotsa luck. I've not heard of a working time machine anywhere on this planet.

We all wish we could undo something either we or someone else did, but it just don't work that way.

If you expect him to change the past, then I can guarantee he just won't be up to it, and you'll have to break it up. If his continued recent faithfulness is not enough, and he has to disrespect other people and go out of his way because you can't let bygones be bygones, perhaps you should do him a favor and let him go...

 

[decades]

This man has problems and problems don't just vanish. Not without A LOT of attention hard work and honesty. If he simply just expected you to accept his apology and then forget about it, he is not doing the work to fix himself. It takes a tremendous amount of EFFORT to fix your broken self. If he didn't fix what's behind the serial infidelity, it is still there and will resurface in a time of stress.

If it were me, I would be gone and looking for the man I deserve. If you don't think you deserve better than HIM, then you need to take a year, be by yourself, work through your ALONENESS, and get your self belief back. Then, next time, choose the person you deserve.

regards

Mike

 

[joekerr31]

ok this is really simple.

do you believe in true love or not? it sounds like you do.

you see, if you dont believe in true love but rather merely the biochemistry of attraction, then cheating, although bad, can be forgiven.

if you are seeking true love though, then cheating is a nail through the heart that can never be repaired. Because ultimately cheating is a statement of "sorry, but you aren't enough for me."

i believe that a lot of people cheat because they no longer believe in true love and have been screwed over so many times by the opposite sex that they no longer are willing to get burned. At some point in their mind they resolved never to fully give themselves to another human being.

So often times as they start to feel themselves getting sucked in to a relationship too deeply they go and cheat to keep themselves from getting too close.

unfortunately this is like a mack truck to the one getting cheated on - it's like everything seem to be going fine, the two people getting closer and closer, then BAM, someoen cheats.

the truth is that a cheating is a self destructive behavior. its taking the relationship and throwing it out on a busy highway and hoping it doesn't get hit.

it's completely irrational, short sighted, and ultimately self destructive.

it rarely has anything to do with the person being cheated on. I mean, the guy liked you enough to develop a real relationship with you and what not, so it obviously means something to him - yet he threw it away (or at least took the very real risk of throwing it away).

why do most peope cheat? immaturity.

see you don't know what is going through his mind. lets say he's had bad relationships in the bad, and no longer truly trusts women. lets say he's committed to women before and they turn around and cheated on him, or left him, or whatever.

Now he's in a relationship with you, and you exhibit behavior similar to those other women (perhaps nagging him, perhaps criticizing him, whatever). Normal behavior that crops up time to time in any relationship. A normal guy may just say - ok, she's acting wacked and fight back or just ignore the behavior or whatever. However this guy might read the behavior as - damn, this is just how suzie acted 3 months before she dumped/cheated on me. To which me might say to himself - **** this, im going to get with some chic just to remind myself that i don't need any one woman.

HE has the problem that he cant stay loyal. unfortunately you'll never know why he has this problem and you'll never be able to help him with it either.

HE obviously doesn't believe in true love or long term devotion and commitment.

so really the only question you need to ask yourself is: are his beliefs incompatable with yours? Even if he commits to you are you prepared to run the risk that 15 years from now this way of thinking that he is living by now may resurface and he may cheat again?

most of the time people who stay with cheaters only do so out of insecurities and lack of self respect. They are afraid to be on their own. It's like the hostage syndrome, where hostages come to empathize with their captures and actually feel attached to them and don't want to see them get hurt.

personally, i consider cheating a deal breaker. i mean, think about it, when someone cheats its not just breaking the bond of trust, they are putting you at risk for live threatening diseases like AIDS.

J