When to give up on a girl?

[wanderlust420]

Here's the sitch:

- Found a cutie online, exchanged several messages. At one point I mention a book I just read, which was the book she just bought, and she offers up the idea of meeting up on Thursday.

- I agree to meet up, tell her I'll call her that afternoon.
- She doesn't pick up. I leave a simple voicemail telling her I'm around for a couple hours, and to call me back.
- She replies on the online dating site (!?) that she is stuck in Portland with her folks and can't make it back in time, and to let her know when I'm available.

- I tell her I'm available Sunday or Monday through Facebook, (which she had given me at one point to converse that way, instead of on the dating site.) (Yet she FLAKED through the DATING site...????)

- She doesn't respond to the Facebook message where I told her Sunday or Monday. (In hindsight it was dumb, I should have just kept her waiting or told her we'd reconnect in a week's time)

- I TEXT her cell phone today (Monday) to tell her tonight won't work, and that I'm about to leave on week-long vacation, and that we can try when I get back, and to enjoy her week.

- She hasn't responded.

- She has deleted her online dating account, (related? maybe?) but I still have her facebook and her cell phone.

-----------------------

MY THEORY: Don't 'ping' her again for AT LEAST 1 week, if not 2 weeks. Then give her one text that is not demanding of a response.

If she doesn't respond, then maybe try in another 2 weeks?

Maybe she's dating someone? Maybe she's busy? Or could she actually be completely flaking out after basically asking me out?

Quite confused. I realize most of you will just say "Next her" but she is pretty cute, and I'd like to hear from someone, ideally, who turned what went from a sure thing to a long shot back to a sure thing...

 

[Black Dog]

Lol the "sitch!" Kim Possible!!

I'm not the best person to doll out advice so don't really listen to my post...but I sort of skimmed your post and all I saw was, SHE DIDNT RESPOND; she ignored me; hasn't called back; she didn't pick up.


Internet dating is stupid anyway. It works for some people, but don't use it as your main ToDestruction!! /my opinion

I've found that Safeway is a great place to meet SMOKIN girls, although I am 17 and I live in a fairly small town soooo

This b/tch sounds like a stupid cvnt, drop her I think...but you also sound like you were raping the sh!t out of her inbox--she even deleted her account !!!

 

[wanderlust420]

Internet Dating is not stupid... but I can understand why you'd think so.

She sent the last message on the online dating site, which was after I had left a voicemail.

Since then I have sent her a message that day on facebook, and today via cell text.

So I wouldn't say I've been 'raping her inbox'.

 

[Scion]

Since I'm the king of over-pursuing (that is pursuing til it's obvious that there's no chance of anything happening) I'd say that she's not interested. There's no point in continuing to pursue her, she knows your interested, and she knows how to contact you. But since she hasn't contacted you at all then let's assume she's giving you a hint to go away. Move on dude, nothing will come out of this.

 

[runner83]

Definitely more than 2 strikes.

Ditch her, unless she contacts you back.

 

[f283000]

OP, please read the 2 strikes rule

let's analyze this. There are several awful things you did here.

- I agree to meet up, tell her I'll call her that afternoon.
- She doesn't pick up. I leave a simple voicemail telling her I'm around for a couple hours, and to call me back.

How hard was it for you to tell her "i'll pick you up at _?." She offered a day and now it was your turn as a man to take the lead and put a stamp on the whole deal. Instead of seizing the opportunity you told her you would call her that afternoon.

Next time be decisive. Set the time and place beforehand. This way you will have a date set up and you won't be hanging around waiting for her to call back (another bad move).

Why do you need to be decisive? because leaders make decisions and women look to men that will lead them. If you don't set up the date and do something like waiting to call her that afternoon all sort of bad things can happen. Women are undecisive by nature so whatever doubts she has about the date she can just flake on you. Not that she wouldn't flake anyway if you had set the time/place but the chances of her flaking go WAY UP when she hasn't even agreed to a time/place!

It's hard enough to get a woman to agree on what day to meet. In this situation she gave you the day and you didn't set the time. You increased the chances of her flaking on you.

- I tell her I'm available Sunday or Monday through Facebook, (which she had given me at one point to converse that way, instead of on the dating site.) (Yet she FLAKED through the DATING site...????)

1. You are making yourself too readily available to her (which kills attraction)
2. You telling her she can find you mondays/sundays on facebook was an attraction killer. You are making yourself available to her when she is not even your girlfriend.

You know how it sounds in her mind? she is thinking you are really into her to the point you are already making space in your schedule to talk to her and you haven't even gone on a single date yet! Do you think she finds that attractive?

how about you telling her you always go on facebook mondays/sundays? That made you sounds like a guy that spends his free time on the computer. You think women find that attractive? That was a big attraction killer. No faster way to kill attraction than having a girl think you are some guy that spends his free time on the computer. They want guys that sound like they do exciting stuff on their free time.

- She replies on the online dating site (!?) that she is stuck in Portland with her folks and can't make it back in time, and to let her know when I'm available.

why would she reply on the site and not call you back after you left her the voice mail? it sounds like bs she didn't want you to hear her voice as she would have been caught lying. She is definitely pulling your leg with her excuses (not interested in you)

This case is definitely over. You need to move on she is not interested in you. What I would recommend next time is to remember to set the date rather than leave it hanging. It's just an awful move to try and set a date on the day you are supposed to be going out. Also stop adding women you want to date on facebook. Remain a mystery to them rather than including them on your social network. You are not in this game to be friends with women (i hope not) you want to bang them so why are you adding them on facebook? You need to be chatting/flirting them up through your cellphone so they can hear your voice and let that work in their mind to build attraction (hearing a man's voice builds attraction, not texts)

 

[jophil28]

How hard was it for you to tell her "i'll pick you up at _?." She offered a day and now it was your turn as a man to take the lead and put a stamp on the whole deal. Instead of seizing the opportunity you told her you would call her that afternoon.

Next time be decisive. Set the time and place beforehand. This way you will have a date set up and you won't be hanging around waiting for her to call back (another bad move).

Why do you need to be decisive? because leaders make decisions and women look to men that will lead them. If you don't set up the date and do something like waiting to call her that afternoon all sort of bad things can happen. Women are undecisive by nature so whatever doubts she has about the date she can just flake on you. Not that she wouldn't flake anyway if you had set the time/place but the chances of her flaking go WAY UP when she hasn't even agreed to a time/place!

Great general dating advice for all you kiddos just getting warmed up.

It is YOUR job to arrange ALL the details. It is her job to get dressed, look hot and just show up .
And never rely on that old belief around here that IF she is interested she will return your VM's. Some women will and some women will not.
NEVER leave a VM asking her to call you back ..

 

[Kailex]

If she deleted her online dating account, it's because she's already going out with at least 2 guys.

Women leave those on there FOREVER.

I say you should have given up on her already. She's obviously NOT interested.

 

[fatdog]

When to give up on a girl? When you have to make a thread asking the question.

 

[The Mad Ghost]

Leave this one alone, don't even think about pinging her in a week or 2 weeks. If she's interested (as much as I hate to use tht word, because she very well WAS interested but all of a sudden is not), then she'll contact YOU.

I've had girls also delete their account when we were just about to meet up, I had the excuse of "They deleted my account because they found out I was under 18" Bullshyt I know, but this girl seems to like the attention. It's kinda like the anticipated build up before you take a shyt, when you eventually do take the dump, you have a different perspective of the build up to it. That's women for you. They can feel emotionally connected to you one second and then the next they don't know what they're doing, ever seen a dog on heat? Wagging it's tail and foaming from the mouth for a bone? But when it gets the bone it usually doesn't even EAT the whole thing and leaves it to come back to it another time, when it wants.

 

[wanderlust420]

Thank you for the detailed reply.

What I'm taking away from it is:
- Be more decisive, set the time and location beforehand
- Don't leave a VM
- Don't Facebook
- Don't Text

I have to ask a few more questions though/add a few more comments:

Re: Set the location/time beforehand

The issue I have here is I don't see how setting the date up more clearly before hand will reduce flaking. I prefer to give an idea of what we will do and then clear it up with a call either the night before or the day of. It seems like I'm way off in this regard in your opinion.
I don't have a car, so the "I'll pick you up at _" doesn't apply.

- She agreed to meet in general in my area on that particular night. So not super specific, but not completely indecisive either.

Don't leave a VM
- Fair enough. In this case I told her I'd only be around a couple hours which worked for me in the past. But I can see how not leaving any message is better.

Don't Facebook her
- Seeing as we met on an online dating site, I was actually glad to facebook her to get a better idea of what she looked like.
I completely agree with what you said about my mistake regarding being available Sun, Mon being an attraction killer. I didn't, however, tell her to find me on facebook on those days, I think there was some confusion there. I expected her to reply to the message and further set up via phone or text.

Don't Text
- I agree that the sound of a man's voice will do a lot more for him than texts, but I won't throw out texts completely. I think a combination of both is a good play, for me at least. I like to text a few times in a week and then give one call, normally. I think I'm pretty decent and writing texts that are not needy and fun.

I appreciate the long reply by f283... I know that I messed it up with this girl, and I have other 'leads' that I'm working on...

F283, and others, do you think that vaguely discussing a date (Let's meet up Thursday night in X neighborhood around 8-9), I'll *call* the day before/the afternoon of is that awful of a move? To me it shows that you're interested, but not going to completely clear anything out for her just yet, which I thought was a good move.

 

[The Mad Ghost]

The on thing I hate about all this dating sequence or set of specific actions is the fact that it SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE THIS MATHEMATICAL!

For the love of god, a 2 Strikes Rule? 99.9% of men out their in the real world DO NOT know about any 2 strikes rule or any arbitrary DJ rules, but somehow are still getting laid fromt he internet and from cold approaching in clubs or the street. Then why is it, that there must be a sequence of actions in order to win the girl here. I actually believe this can stigmatize you're homerun for the end-game.

 

[2crudedudes]

The on thing I hate about all this dating sequence or set of specific actions is the fact that it SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE THIS MATHEMATICAL!

For the love of god, a 2 Strikes Rule? 99.9% of men out their in the real world DO NOT know about any 2 strikes rule or any arbitrary DJ rules, but somehow are still getting laid fromt he internet and from cold approaching in clubs or the street. Then why is it, that there must be a sequence of actions in order to win the girl here. I actually believe this can stigmatize you're homerun for the end-game.

It doesn't HAVE to be this mathematical. The reason it IS, however, is because a lot of us that need help (and consequently, this website) view life too logically. Women are not logical, and thus it presents us a problem.

So rather than try to make women more logical, we make approaching women more so. A lot of guys do get laid without these rules, but that's because they UNDERSTAND the playing field. For the rest of us, these rules are mere guidelines until we too understand.

Once you have enough experience with women, you go about your business and don't even think about it. At that point merely following these rules will do more harm than benefit.

Maybe you're more enlightened than some of us here, and thus see this as an impediment. More power to you.

 

[The Mad Ghost]

A lot of guys do get laid without these rules, but that's because they UNDERSTAND the playing field. For the rest of us, these rules are mere guidelines until we too understand

Nice username btw, I have a disc which has all the old genesis games and I was playing it for about 10 hours the other day, good memories.

You're answer, I do not believe there are much guys who KNOW how to play effectively in the field. I'm refering to average regular joe's who I SEE GET LAID, without any specific course of actions, what they do will probably be shunned on this forum. I'm refering to "Can I Buy you a Drink" dudes. These guys haven't a clue of No Contact or 2 Strikes Rule. I've spoken to so many girls who get off on the fact and actually STAY with these types of provider beta guys, yet we're here scrambling for a set of rules for a guy to get a date (in this thread).

Maybe you're more enlightened than some of us here, and thus see this as an impediment. More power to you.

I came here, because I didn't understand the actions of my ex-girlfriend. I'm happy I've been exposed to the knowledge here and it has enlightened me more than I could've hoped. But sometimes I feel as though we go overboard with set of actions for minor events. Which makes it abit weird or too concentrated.

 

[Chromeo]

you should give up on a girl always, you should have so many options that the phrase "giving up a girl" doesnt make sense. You constantly find new ones and bang their brains out, and they will follow. Next every girl you meet, and see how many phone calls you start to get

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Re: Set the location/time beforehand

The issue I have here is I don't see how setting the date up more clearly before hand will reduce flaking. I prefer to give an idea of what we will do and then clear it up with a call either the night before or the day of. It seems like I'm way off in this regard in your opinion.
I don't have a car, so the "I'll pick you up at _" doesn't apply.

Two problems here:

1) You need to work on getting interest level higher, as in sky high: this will help you avoid a lot of this bs in the first place because its obvious in this situation that the girl didn't have much interest compared to you.

2) Girls aren't like guys: girls have plans several days in advance, its just that they break them when a guy they really like comes into the picture. However early on its more about creating and elevating that attraction; so trying to plan a date the day before, ESPECIALLY a first date is literally asking for rejection or her being unavailable. When a girl gives you an opening ie "I'm free on Wednesday" don't dilly dally, set something up SPECIFIC and go from there. If she flakes on this, then your not left over-analyzing her interest.


- She agreed to meet in general in my area on that particular night. So not super specific, but not completely indecisive either.

Not specific; thats a MAJOR problem. The way a girl see's it is like this; I was going to hang out with Jon this week but he didn't tell me what time or place so I guess its off." Stupid I know, but that's how it goes when their interest isn't great


Don't leave a VM
- Fair enough. In this case I told her I'd only be around a couple hours which worked for me in the past. But I can see how not leaving any message is better.

This is kinda a moot point; if a girl's interested it won't matter if you leave a message or not. Just don't be specific on the message, be vague and you'll be fine.

Don't Facebook her
- Seeing as we met on an online dating site, I was actually glad to facebook her to get a better idea of what she looked like.
I completely agree with what you said about my mistake regarding being available Sun, Mon being an attraction killer. I didn't, however, tell her to find me on facebook on those days, I think there was some confusion there. I expected her to reply to the message and further set up via phone or text.

Biggest clue that she had no interest is you contact her and she uses the dating site to get back to you; BADDDDD SIGN. Again your getting caught up in the details, work on establishing HIGH INTEREST LEVEL and you get to skip over all these issues.

Don't Text
- I agree that the sound of a man's voice will do a lot more for him than texts, but I won't throw out texts completely. I think a combination of both is a good play, for me at least. I like to text a few times in a week and then give one call, normally. I think I'm pretty decent and writing texts that are not needy and fun.

Funny how everyone says "don't text" here 24/7. I know because i use to be one of those guys! haha Its IMPOSSIBLE not to text in this day, nearly every girl 18-30 uses text as their primary form of communication. Again if the girl is interested it won't matter. Instead of saying don't text, think of it this way; if a girl never contacts you or doesn't call you back on the phone that is a bad sign.

F283, and others, do you think that vaguely discussing a date (Let's meet up Thursday night in X neighborhood around 8-9), I'll *call* the day before/the afternoon of is that awful of a move?

YES!!!!

Goes back to the dominant strong male theory; do you think when a male lion is attacking a hyena he starts to attack him, then stops and says "hey just to let you know I'm going to go for a swift bite to the neck next, be ready!"

Okay I know lame example, but the point is to be sure of yourself!! Women see right through this, the only reason your setting up vague plans is because you are not completely confident that she'll show up. This conveys a weak frame and its easy to make a ton of assumptions based on this whether they're true or not.

To me it shows that you're interested, but not going to completely clear anything out for her just yet, which I thought was a good move.

Why would you be open to a time and date and then say maybe to convey that your not going to completely open up your schedule for her? Your reading into the details too much.

And this actually has the opposite effect; who makes plans specific plans with a girl, then tells the girl "maybe I'll let you know."

PIMP

 

[2crudedudes]

Nice username btw, I have a disc which has all the old genesis games and I was playing it for about 10 hours the other day, good memories.

You're answer, I do not believe there are much guys who KNOW how to play effectively in the field. I'm refering to average regular joe's who I SEE GET LAID, without any specific course of actions, what they do will probably be shunned on this forum. I'm refering to "Can I Buy you a Drink" dudes. These guys haven't a clue of No Contact or 2 Strikes Rule. I've spoken to so many girls who get off on the fact and actually STAY with these types of provider beta guys, yet we're here scrambling for a set of rules for a guy to get a date (in this thread).

I came here, because I didn't understand the actions of my ex-girlfriend. I'm happy I've been exposed to the knowledge here and it has enlightened me more than I could've hoped. But sometimes I feel as though we go overboard with set of actions for minor events. Which makes it abit weird or too concentrated.

Hehe, my brother and I spent a bunch of time playing this game beating the sh1t out of each other, never really making very far before running out of lives. Good times.

Anyway, the way I see it, I don't wanna be like those "let me buy you a drink" guys that get a girlfriend and get stuck with her for years. Been there, done that.

I've found that a lot of the things I've done in the past haven't worked for my purposes. Sure, I've had girlfriends here and there, but what I want is a lot of fvck buddies all the time. What I was doing (being the provider beta) was clearly wrong, since I've never had what I want.

You're right in thinking that sometimes the guidelines get too specific, but you also have to remember that each situation is different, each woman is different, and guidelines just are that, guidelines. They give you a common course of action and a common outcome. Its up to you to apply it to your life, depending on what you want.

edit: omitted a couple of words

 

[kingsam]

Quite confused. I realize most of you will just say "Next her" but she is pretty cute, and I'd like to hear from someone, ideally, who turned what went from a sure thing to a long shot back to a sure thing...

WTF !!!

i doesn't matter what you WANT to happen ....

the signs are pointing against you, if you want (tho others have said not to) hit her up in a week or two, STOP trying to think its something else!!!!!

that is hardcore AFC style!
-------

but she is pretty cute

oh my rationalisation shes acting like a lil biach but shes cute so i will ignore her bad behaviour

DONT rationalise!

 

[kingsam]

Don't Facebook her
- Seeing as we met on an online dating site, I was actually glad to facebook her to get a better idea of what she looked like.
I completely agree with what you said about my mistake regarding being available Sun, Mon being an attraction killer. I didn't, however, tell her to find me on facebook on those days, I think there was some confusion there. I expected her to reply to the message and further set up via phone or text.

facebook reduces any possibility of you being a challenge/mysterious - she can see every thing about you, there’s nothing new to find out about you, no surprises, she needs to be wondering about you...its exciting for her

The issue I have here is I don't see how setting the date up more clearly before hand will reduce flaking. I prefer to give an idea of what we will do and then clear it up with a call either the night before or the day of. It seems like I'm way off in this regard in your opinion.
I don't have a car, so the "I'll pick you up at _" doesn't apply.

F283, and others, do you think that vaguely discussing a date (Let's meet up Thursday night in X neighborhood around 8-9), I'll *call* the day before/the afternoon of is that awful of a move? To me it shows that you're interested, but not going to completely clear anything out for her just yet, which I thought was a good move.

Calling before the date sub-communicates insecurity on your part – that you get flaked on by other women = you are subconsciously seen by her as a lower value male (DHV)
It’s also an opportunity for her to flake when you call up

A truly confident man who is not afraid/phased by flakes would set a firm time and place, if she doesn’t turn up delete her number.

First dates from the internet should be a 45min-1hr drink or coffee then you don’t waste time and money if she’s rubbish, and personalities dont click, or you dont find each other attractive in person (photos are often different).

What you should be doing when internet dating is “stacking” dates, so have 2 or 3 on the same evening… the more quantity the more chances of meeting a good chick.
Then take it further with the ones you like…

 

[jophil28]

She offered a day and now it was your turn as a man to take the lead and put a stamp on the whole deal. Instead of seizing the opportunity you told her you would call her that afternoon.

The phrase " put a stamp on the whole deal " is key to understanding how to set up meetings with new women.
In fact I would add one word," ..put YOUR stamp on the whole deal."
This concept is at the core of leadership.

It is your job to formulate, plan, set up and tell her where and when you two are going to meet. Take charge and lead her. Women NEVER enjoy being decisive in the early stages of dating . If you are indecisive as well , the inevitable will happen.