When is it okay to spy?

[DariusTheBartender]

Recently a co worker of mine expected his wife who he's had 4 kids with was cheating on him, he hired a p.i. to follow her, AND WHAT A SHOCK!!!! SHE WAS CHEATING. who would think this to be possible!!???

Anyway, got me thinking... When is it okay to spy? On reasonable suspicions? In the courtship phase? When your gut tells you something is wrong?

Most of my relationships now are casual but if I'm getting serious w someone my networth is too damn high not to think about it. You insure your car, your house, your business....

Anyway, would love to hear the positive and negative opinions?

And I guess on the flip, would you be offended if she went thru your phone, cruises by your house to see if your car is in the driveway etc....

 

[samspade]

I can't speak for your coworker, since he was married with children. He may have wanted ammunition to prove she was at fault in a divorce, which may affect custody of the kids down the road. (I have no idea.)

Otherwise, I think spying is a huge waste of time and resources. Not only that, but it can drive you nuts.

I've said time and again you should trust your gut and walk. She shouldn't be doing anything that would even mistakenly arouse your suspicion. Misunderstandings happen, but a pattern of them means she does not respect you, whether she's cheating or not.

Once you start looking through messages and following her, you're putting yourself through additional angst. You'll certainly see things you don't want to see, and you'll agonize over anything ambiguous. It'll just make you angry and cost you time and energy better spent finding a new girl, or being alone for that matter.

And if you present your newfound evidence to her, she'll try to flip blame onto you. She'll always blame you anyway, no need to give her additional reasons.

 

[AttackFormation]

Many guys might just ask themselves "do I wanna live with a cheater?" and say no. But after that, I would ask myself "anyone can cheat if they want to, and they could likewise hide it if they want to. Do I want to live in paranoia?" and say no to that too. So my solution if I ever were in a relationship would be to go by whether her behavior is acceptable to me and I feel trust for her or not, regardless of whether she might be cheating.

Once you go down the rabbit hole of paranoia it can consume you because even finding nothing, you can just rationalize it as her having prepared for you to be looking or you failing to catch her that time. The paranoia will make you neurotic and put you in a mental purgatory, which is bad for you, and that's the point. In your coworker's case, obviously he didn't feel trust for her anymore and he turned out to be right to feel that way. But it was the disappearance of trust which is the root of the problem.

 

[Kotaix]

If you find yourself not trusting a woman in the courtship phase then that should be a big red flag and you should next her instead of spending good money on something that was doomed anyway.

Trust is earned, not implied. But I'm going to agree with @AttackFormation that going into this kind of mindset is toxic for your mental health.

By all means protect yourself if you need to, but this is the kind of deep dark secret that WILL destroy what might have been a great relationship if it ever gets out.

 

[In2theGame]

A while ago I was going to start a long post on this topic. Here's the thing when it comes to "spying",.. No one wants to do this because as others have mentioned, it will consume you and you'll be worried something is going on. On top of that, Most people will say "It's wrong" and "Not right" to spy or check your SO's phone or whatever HOWEVER I will say... It's probably the only way you will ever know the truth about something. My friends as well as myself have all discovered dirt being done behind the scenes by "looking into" things and have we not done that, we would of continued to be blind to it. You must understand that if you do this, you need to prepare yourself for what you will/may find. Women have all kinds of things on their phone and messages that they think you will never see hence this is where the real red pill information can be found. It's like standing in from of a big red curtain with your Wife's name on top of it and Morpheus is standing in front of it telling you "You can take the blue pill and walk away, believe whatever you want to believe about your Wife, No harm no Foul, you stay in wonderland" Or..... "You can take the redpill and you'll see what your Wife is really like when she thinks you will never know, Remember all im offering you is the truth" I'm not saying to do something like this... I'm just saying it's the only real way to know the truth if you suspect something is off. This also applies to Women and their Boyfriends/Husbands.

 

[Suave88]

It is very unlikely that your coworker revealed any personal information about his private life to you.

Hiring a P.I. is not spying.
Spying requires a lot more skill. It requires
Disinformation, counterintelligence, change in physiognomy, language, manipulation, knowledge of torture and interrogation tactics, personal defence, kidnapping, sabotage, creation of fake documents, infiltration, radio operation, and many times paratrooping and or diving.

Following and watching is surveillance. I believe it is legal if you have a good P.I.
Do not stalk anyone.

 

[AttackFormation]

A while ago I was going to start a long post on this topic. Here's the thing when it comes to "spying",.. No one wants to do this because as others have mentioned, it will consume you and you'll be worried something is going on. On top of that, Most people will say "It's wrong" and "Not right" to spy or check your SO's phone or whatever HOWEVER I will say... It's probably the only way you will ever know the truth about something. My friends as well as myself have all discovered dirt being done behind the scenes by "looking into" things and have we not done that, we would of continued to be blind to it. You must understand that if you do this, you need to prepare yourself for what you will/may find. Women have all kinds of things on their phone and messages that they think you will never see hence this is where the real red pill information can be found. It's like standing in from of a big red curtain with your Wife's name on top of it and Morpheus is standing in front of it telling you "You can take the blue pill and walk away, believe whatever you want to believe about your Wife, No harm no Foul, you stay in wonderland" Or..... "You can take the redpill and you'll see what your Wife is really like when she thinks you will never know, Remember all im offering you is the truth" I'm not saying to do something like this... I'm just saying it the only real way to know the truth if you suspect something is off. This also applies to Women and their Boyfriends/Husbands.

- Substance use (hobby drinking, smoking, drugs)
- Traumatic childhood and/or broken family
- AWing (antisocial media, hobby clubbing)
- Cluster B
- Hiding or minimizing any of the above while mirroring you

Did you or your buddies ever snoop on and "discover" things about a girlfriend/wife, who didn't have one or multiple of the above traits?

 

[Alvafe]

you know the funny thing, caring and spying is a waste of time, but if you really know the girl you can take some actions as suspicious, people who are cheating tend to have a certain change, you can take the guess and start to dig, also note today spying someone is pretty damn easy, most people are too dumb on internet computer and cellphone use, you can in simple and easy ways figure something else, course all that can't be used legally, just to confirm your gut feeling

 

[In2theGame]

- Substance use (hobby drinking, smoking, drugs)
- Traumatic childhood and/or broken family
- AWing (antisocial media, hobby clubbing)
- Cluster B
- Hiding or minimizing any of the above while mirroring you

Did you or your buddies ever snoop on and "discover" things about a girlfriend/wife, who didn't have one or multiple of the above traits?

For me, my first 2 GF's a while ago didnt do drugs or drink. Both had Mother and Father together (however dont know how they raised them), Social Media was not around like that back then like it is today. Most of the suspicions came about when I or friends of mines noticed a behavior change, that's what prompted an "investigation" you can say and ultimately discovered the truth.

One of my friends Dad suspected his Wife acting different and I would assume he could pick up on things after being with his Wife for almost 20 years but after hiring a PI, Thats when things started leaking out.

Some of my friends would use a keylogger to see what was going on and thats how they found things out. Now a days a keylogger on a desktop or laptop wont reveal too much since everyone uses their phones anyway.

 

[AttackFormation]

For me, my first 2 GF's a while ago didnt do drugs or drink. Both had Mother and Father together (however dont know how they raised them), Social Media was not around like that back then like it is today. Most of the suspicions came about when I or friends of mines noticed a behavior change, that's what prompted an "investigation" you can say and ultimately discovered the truth.

One of my friends Dad suspected his Wife acting different and I would assume he could pick up on things after being with his Wife for more almost 20 years but after hiring a PI, Thats when things started leaking out.

Some of my friends would use a keylogger to see what was going on and thats how they found things out. Now a days a keylogger on a desktop or laptop wont reveal too much since everyone uses their phones anyway.

Cool, that red flag list I wrote catches all of the "bad eggs" that I've encountered, but I am always looking to update it and keep in mind you can never be certain while also accepting you can't be. I guess the only completion would be what you said, a behavior change and gut feeling about it.

 

[samspade]

A while ago I was going to start a long post on this topic. Here's the thing when it comes to "spying",.. No one wants to do this because as others have mentioned, it will consume you and you'll be worried something is going on. On top of that, Most people will say "It's wrong" and "Not right" to spy or check your SO's phone or whatever HOWEVER I will say... It's probably the only way you will ever know the truth about something. My friends as well as myself have all discovered dirt being done behind the scenes by "looking into" things and have we not done that, we would of continued to be blind to it. You must understand that if you do this, you need to prepare yourself for what you will/may find. Women have all kinds of things on their phone and messages that they think you will never see hence this is where the real red pill information can be found. It's like standing in from of a big red curtain with your Wife's name on top of it and Morpheus is standing in front of it telling you "You can take the blue pill and walk away, believe whatever you want to believe about your Wife, No harm no Foul, you stay in wonderland" Or..... "You can take the redpill and you'll see what your Wife is really like when she thinks you will never know, Remember all im offering you is the truth" I'm not saying to do something like this... I'm just saying it's the only real way to know the truth if you suspect something is off. This also applies to Women and their Boyfriends/Husbands.

I just assume that they're going to have shyt on their devices I wouldn't want to see. Everyone has secrets. It's not like I think every gf or wife is out there wh0ring it up, but no one can know another person like they know themselves, if that makes sense. Even if you saw all of her private messages, you still won't know all the truth, because women withhold info from even their BFFs.

On top of that, you can't control what someone does, but you can control how you react to it if you find out or suspect something. People mention the changes in behavior and that is key.

For me it's about knowing and enforcing my personal boundaries, being alert, and being willing to walk away. I've snooped before and it didn't make me any more "red pill," but it did make me sick with myself that I bothered rather than just grabbing my balls and walking. The information itself was not enlightening in any way; it's like eating out of the dumpster.

 

[gravityeyelids]

Recently a co worker of mine expected his wife who he's had 4 kids with was cheating on him, he hired a p.i. to follow her, AND WHAT A SHOCK!!!! SHE WAS CHEATING. who would think this to be possible!!???

Anyway, got me thinking... When is it okay to spy? On reasonable suspicions? In the courtship phase? When your gut tells you something is wrong?

Most of my relationships now are casual but if I'm getting serious w someone my networth is too damn high not to think about it. You insure your car, your house, your business....

Maybe i'm cynical, and i don't exactly have a great view of marriage, but I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable marrying any woman without a prenup. Getting cheated on or divorcing is bad enough without the double blow of losing half your worth or paying out child support or something for decades. Prenup sounds to me like free insurance. Because when i trust someone i'm dating, i make the decision to trust them 100%. Starting to entertain thoughts of them cheating leads to the very type of behavior that will help reaffirm her decision to cheat. When you start to mistrust a woman, and she picks up on that, i think that a lot of them start to think: "well he already thinks i'm cheating on him, so I might as well go ahead and cheat if he's going to think that way either way." Not to mention that being needy or jealous is unattractive and girls WILL pick up on it.

 

[Mazer]

Probably not the best advice but if my gut tells me she is cheating, I’d probably go right back to spinning plates until I verify.

 

[Roober]

If every woman is replaceable, why would it matter if she's cheating?

If you have nothing to lose, why would it matter of she's cheating?

If it doesn't really matter if she's cheating, why would you ever spy on her?

Maybe to protect your fragile ego...

 

[Dash Riprock]

I'll chime in on this with some random thoughts based on experience:

1- If you're simply dating someone and not living together and you have to worry about her/him cheating behind your back, do yourself a favor and dump them first. I did this a couple years ago and it felt great--what a relief. It's NOT worth the time, energy, mental anguish, etc. We've all been there.

2- EVERY time I suspected someone of cheating--without snooping or spying--I was RIGHT. The gut and your intuition is usually correct.

3- I have no data to back this up, but I would suspect cheating in all relationships (LTR, LDR, live-in, marriage) is way up over the past ten years due to largely social media and hook up dating apps and unrealistic expectations that have been promoted by way of TV and social media.

4- If you're legally married, that's a different situation. I would try to establish whether she was cheating or not, ESPECIALLY if we had kids. All bets are off, I would do whatever it took; PI's, software, whatever. Once found out, I would use as ammo in a certain and subsequent divorce though I'm not sure it makes any difference given the lopsided nature of family courts.

Focus on being the BEST YOU always and know/realize everything ends (relationships, jobs, friendships, and life) at some point, hence, be careful about how much effort and emotional energy you give to a woman. Especially in 2019. They are a compliment to your life, not the driving force.

Do something great and set high goals!

 

[Epimanes]

If you dont have a family to protect ... and your guts say spy... your gut is really saying gtfo.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Recently a co worker of mine expected his wife who he's had 4 kids with was cheating on him, he hired a p.i. to follow her, AND WHAT A SHOCK!!!! SHE WAS CHEATING. who would think this to be possible!!???

Anyway, got me thinking... When is it okay to spy? On reasonable suspicions? In the courtship phase? When your gut tells you something is wrong?

Most of my relationships now are casual but if I'm getting serious w someone my networth is too damn high not to think about it. You insure your car, your house, your business....

Anyway, would love to hear the positive and negative opinions?

And I guess on the flip, would you be offended if she went thru your phone, cruises by your house to see if your car is in the driveway etc....

How bad was the scenarios?

 

[andreihaha]

Anyway, got me thinking... When is it okay to spy? On reasonable suspicions? In the courtship phase? When your gut tells you something is wrong?

And I guess on the flip, would you be offended if she went thru your phone, cruises by your house to see if your car is in the driveway etc....

A relationship is based on trust.
I agree with what everyone said here already, if you're suspecting, walk away.
As to the second part, not sure offended is the right word. If she would do that, I'd maybe laugh in her face or ask her if the's ok, if she needs a glass of water. I'm saying that because I don't tend to cheat. So if a girl/woman is jealous without a reason, she's bad news. She'll bring you more pain than pleasure, so it's probably also a good idea to walk away.

Of course it's not that easy when you two are part of the family. I agree with what the others said on this regard.

 

[Epic Days]

When your gut tells you to gather information. Spying is the wrong word.

 

[Epic Days]

Information leads to sound decisions.