When did males become females and vice versa?

[Heretolearn]

I am at work and had to deliver something to the next building. I was going there with two girl work colleagues when they spied a 'hunky' male waiter.

They did the wolf whistle, check him out to themselves.

What has become of us men. It used to be us that did that and we were attacked by the females.

Now us men if we saw a good looking waitress would probably:

a) be sickly Mr Nice guy
b)go up and ask them to marry us
b) All of the above.

thank goodness for this site!

 

[ElChoclo]

Rock Hudson

I refer you to the classic 60s? Doris Day Rock Hudson movie "Party Line"? I think it is called. He is the shameless womanizer who charms them with a reworking of a song for each different girl. He pretends to be a gormless Texan to pursue the uptight Doris. Finally she catches him out and realises he is the DJ who ties up her party line with his lovemaking.

Now, this movie shows values of that era. The Mel Gibson " What Women Want" one shows todays. Now a bit of detective work through the decades will show the point of change. Movies are to social values what ice cores are to global CO2 levels, are permanent public register.

My favourite part is where Rock, cynically suggests that his alter ego the respectful Texan, might be gay (quite amusing in retrospect)

 

[Criminal Mind]

When females reliased that the only power they had was making men chase them, and once they said yes, the power went back to the men.

 

[joekerr31]

there are a wider variety of "types" of women today than ever before. its merely the result of the increased freedoms women have attained by working.

in 60s hardly any women worked. and if they did it was part time, or didn't pay that much, or whatever. a woman's primary focus in that era was raising her kids.

today, women don't see raising their kids as their primary function. today they see their primary function as fulfilling their own desires. so women today are more like men in the sense that they are ruthlessly focused on getting what THEY want.

as women gained this power, men LOST the power to catch them as easily. suddenly it became much more difficult for your average joe to land a woman - because she no longer absolutely needed a man to get by. but more importantly she, she came to BELIEVE that she didnt need a man.

you see the women in the 60s believed that they NEEDED a man. women today don't. they WANT a man, but nothing short of prince charming will fully convince her to make him the focus of her life.

we all know that power comes from not needing something. when you can take it or leave it, you gain a tremendous amount of power. women have learned this.

now how have men reacted to all this? most have become AFCs. Since women no longer need them they've resorted to BRIBING women to be with them through gifts, treating them like princesses even when they behave like b*tches, etc.

In a very generalized sense, this is the world we are currently living in. Women are content to focus on their studies, jobs, etc., and see men as accessories to go with their new shoes.

so how do you succeed despite all this? it's simple, you act like it doesn't exist. when a woman busts your balls, you put her in her place, IMMEDIATELY. if she keeps busting your balls, you NEXT her.

and keep searching for the woman for you. because not ALL women are like this. some still have dreams of being a good mother and wife etc. some of them still are marriable (although make no mistake, most are not).

there's a saying: "The most important decision in your life is who you choose to marry. 90% of your happiness with be determined by the person you marry."

women will start acting like women again when and only when enough men stop acting like AFCs. until then, they will continue to act like men (ie. dominent) and most guys will have no choice but to act like women (ie. submissive) to be with them.

which is why when you end up with one of these women who is determined to have it her way, all the time, you need to next them and move on to the next one.
J

 

[TheTrimReaper]

There are many aspects of modern life that challenge the male/female dynamic. And I think a lot of the things we see on a daily basis filter down into our subconscious and significantly affect our decision-making process.

There is a blog I like to look at occasionally:

mirrorofthesoul.blogspot.com/

He gives some interesting insight into being a modern male. Some of what he says is ornery, but that can even be entertaining.

 

[WestCoaster]

The married AFC

Good blog, some very good stuff there. I don't agree with all of it, but much of it I do.

The traps of the married AFC man ... I kid you not on these stories.

Talking to a friend the other day, regretting some gals I blew it with in college (didn't pursure; pursued the wrong ones) ... told my married friend I came across a picture of a gal from my dorm in college. She was hot, wanted me, I was too stupid. The old picture looked great ... couldn't believe I still had it. She was a smokin' hot South Pacific Islander.

My friend's reply: "Yeah, remember the blonde I dated in college, I found a picture of her, too." (She was hot.) I quickly buried it so my wife wouldn't see it."

Holy f'n sh-t ... the guy has been married (to a beyotch) for almost 20 freaking years and he has to hide old pictures?!

Another friend of mine from college was talking about an ex-gf, and he says, "I don't tell my wife about her ... don't want her to get mad."

WTF? This is like 15-20 years ago?!

If I ever get married I'll keep the pictures and tell wifey about women I've dated. I haven't had a ton of girlfriends, but I've had a few serious ones and several brief flings that fizzled out ... in addition, I've gone out on dates with close to 70 women and I'm a reformed AFC and definitely not a womanizer. When I can't sleep at night, I don't count sheep, I count all the women I've dated. This is part of my past (and present) and who I am. Why hide that from anyone? Were these married AFCs supposed to be in cold storage before getting married?

About TWO of my many married friends can talk about ex-gfs to their wives.

That's sick.

 

[joekerr31]

you think thats bad....

I know men who make ALL the money but control none of it. their wives give them an "allowance".

I know men who are constantly bombarded with why they are failing the relationship because they put in 60 hour weeks and are too tired to take the wife out to the opera on Thursday because they have to get up at 6am the next day.

i know guys whose wives are 40 pounds over weight, but who dont judge their wives based simply on their loooks, they just want them to be good mothers and a half decent wife. these women make their husbands lives hell because they aren't happy with themselves and their appearance.

There are SOOOOO many married guys out there whose wives think that because they now have these guys trapped that they shoudl be their punching bags for them to let out all their negative emotions on.

this is why dont ever get married to a woman who doesnt share your same sense of values. and those values hsould include treating others as you would like to be treated and taking responsibility for your emotions and your emotional, mental and physical well being.

NEVER marry a woman who expect YOU to make her happy. Marry a woman who is mature enough to realize that happiness first starts with oneself and then can be attain from another person with both are looking to GIVE rather than TAKE.

It's so sad. we live in the best period in human history ever. we have so many materialistic comforts. We have medicines to cure us. We have heat, water, light at the flick of a switch.

All men have SOOO much to be thankful for. why would you throw it all away by marrying some battleaxe that just puts you down all the time.

And ok, some guys their women weren't like that to start. and im not a huge fan of divorce, BUT, at any point in your life, if someone is treating you badly with no justified reasonf or doing so, you have to WALK AWAY.

now in a marriage with kids, go to councelling. Perhaps that will smarter her up. but if that doesnt work. then walk away. at least you will be a role model for your children that if two people can't treat each other right, then they shouldnt be together.

so many men out there getting treated like absolute and utter sh*t. I feel so bad for them - but at the same time, they choose to let this crap continue on.

J

 

[STR8UP]

Originally posted by TheTrimReaper
There is a blog I like to look at occasionally:

mirrorofthesoul.blogspot.com/

He gives some interesting insight into being a modern male. Some of what he says is ornery, but that can even be entertaining.

This is PRICELESS.....me to a "t"-

"By living well, you will also find that certain men will hate you too (this is called jealousy), but who cares, they have crap jobs as some type of salary man at big corporation X or what not, to support some nagging, abusive, demeaning wife under threat of divorce and losing it all or some ex-wife via alimony and child support, or have to put up with some biatch American girlfriend, but you go home to peace and quite, enjoying a fine cigar and cognac, contemplating what country to visit next in your pursuit of being a world traveler and connaisseur extraordinaire. You might entertain thoughts of having a family or kids, but then you look around at those that do here in the US, and realize, you won't be getting off at that stop. Wait for it, plenty of women in world, plenty of countries, pick a place you find that has good laws supporting men's rights and family and such, and pitch your tent there if you so desire a family. In the meantime, live well, for every second you do such, you are giving the middle finger to countless people around you caught up in the system as well as the system itself, and you remain free. Indeed, as they say, living well is the best revenge."

Life is good when you live it for YOURSELF!

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by joekerr31
there are a wider variety of "types" of women today than ever before. its merely the result of the increased freedoms women have attained by working.

in 60s hardly any women worked. and if they did it was part time, or didn't pay that much, or whatever. a woman's primary focus in that era was raising her kids.

today, women don't see raising their kids as their primary function. today they see their primary function as fulfilling their own desires. so women today are more like men in the sense that they are ruthlessly focused on getting what THEY want.

as women gained this power, men LOST the power to catch them as easily. suddenly it became much more difficult for your average joe to land a woman - because she no longer absolutely needed a man to get by. but more importantly she, she came to BELIEVE that she didnt need a man.

you see the women in the 60s believed that they NEEDED a man. women today don't. they WANT a man, but nothing short of prince charming will fully convince her to make him the focus of her life.

we all know that power comes from not needing something. when you can take it or leave it, you gain a tremendous amount of power. women have learned this.

now how have men reacted to all this? most have become AFCs. Since women no longer need them they've resorted to BRIBING women to be with them through gifts, treating them like princesses even when they behave like b*tches, etc.

In a very generalized sense, this is the world we are currently living in. Women are content to focus on their studies, jobs, etc., and see men as accessories to go with their new shoes.

so how do you succeed despite all this? it's simple, you act like it doesn't exist. when a woman busts your balls, you put her in her place, IMMEDIATELY. if she keeps busting your balls, you NEXT her.

and keep searching for the woman for you. because not ALL women are like this. some still have dreams of being a good mother and wife etc. some of them still are marriable (although make no mistake, most are not).

there's a saying: "The most important decision in your life is who you choose to marry. 90% of your happiness with be determined by the person you marry."

women will start acting like women again when and only when enough men stop acting like AFCs. until then, they will continue to act like men (ie. dominent) and most guys will have no choice but to act like women (ie. submissive) to be with them.

which is why when you end up with one of these women who is determined to have it her way, all the time, you need to next them and move on to the next one.
J

You are quite right about women changing because they are more independent and can take care of themselves and no longer need to look to a man to provide for them.

Thing for a moment about the traits men consider when they judge their worth as a man or judge the worth of other men. Guys typically judge each other and themselves based on their ability to provide, protect and procreate. Money, strength and the ability to perform sexually...those are the main things.

Eversince women have become independent and able to provide for themselves and take self defense classes or study martial arts, etc to protect themselves men have become lost as to how to attract a woman. If the needs of the woman have changed and you don't adjust accordingly you're going to get left behind. That's what's been happening. Men have no idea what they are suppose to do because women don't need them anymore.

Now a woman must want you, as joekerr pointed out. If a woman doesn't need you she's not going to put up with the same level of things women used to put up with. That's why the divorce rate is so high now. It used to be that men could get away with cheating because a woman didn't have as many options. Today if a man cheats the woman will most likely leave if she finds out because she doesn't HAVE to stay.

Basically, the more independent women become the better men you will have to be in order to succeed with women...and not just in how well you can provide, protect and procreate. You need to be a good companion and meet whatever her individual needs from a man happen to be. Yeah, it makes it harder for guys but that's just how it is and you have to either adapt or get lost in the shuffle. No, that doesn't mean you have to tolerate being treated badly...NO ONE should ever do that. It just means that you need to be about more than an income, a strong body and a working penis with healthy sperm.

 

[joekerr31]

i disagree with the whole "women don't need men anymore".

they don't need them to survive.

but heck, i dont want a woman who is with me just because i help her survive.

no one really has any advantages in all this. men and women, at the end of the day, just want someone they can trust in, who they can share their lives with, who they can depend on during tough times, etc...

men and women want the same thing at the end of the day. i think women do themselves a HUGE disservice saying "I don't need a man". Of course you don't, theres no need to turn it into an action statement.

no man or woman should be putting up with crap, thats just a given.

unfortunately too many women have taken this "I dont need a man" position and turned it into "Either a man does what i want and what i say, or he's out of here".

haha.

all of this comes down to very basic tenants of treating othe rpeople with respect and empathy.

i personally feel as though there are many more men out there today with their heads on straight than there are women.

To disagree with Wyld for a moment, I think, in general, women are MUCH more confused than men with regards to the changing dynamics of relationships today.

I think women's new found independence has gone to many of their heads and they think "It's our time now. Power to the women. blah blah blah".

well, if you want to approach guys with that attitude, sure, they will sleep with you, but you'll never find a truly caring, compassionate relationship. No guy wants some woman that STARTS with the assumption that she has to put a man in his place.

usually what happens as women get older is they get tired of hating men. A few of their friends have caught on as to how you have a healthy positive relationship, and they've grown out of their penchant for hte bad boys and picked guys who have the traits needed for a healthy relationship. thats usually when these women get off their high horse and self-centered view of life, and start to ask the question "What can i bring to the table, and what better choice can i make, in order to develop that caring, mature relationship i keep saying i want"

now some women enver mature and just become wh*res who hate men forever yet nonetheless still need them.

but this whole thing about "women dont need men" is bullsh*t. and its a bad thing for people to be saying, because other women who don't even believe it just parrot it back and then with so many women saying it, it seems like its true. but its not true.

women need men just as much as men need women.

J

 

[GirlCrazy]

I know men who make ALL the money but control none of it. their wives give them an "allowance".

I let my wife handle the money, because frankly I suck at it. I don't get an allowance (it's my money after all), and just swipe my card when I want to. For big purchases I do consult my "accountant", because that's what she is.

When I met her, I was making 6 figures and didn't even have a bank account. I just cashed my paychecks and put the money in a bathroom drawer. I gotta admit, it was kinda cool having a drawer full of 100's, but it wasn't the smartest way to handle my money, and try buying a house with a cash down payment - they think you're a drug dealer.

Now I don't worry about money because I know it's handled. As long as my card works when I swipe it, and the bank doesn't ask for the house back, the money is better left in her hands. As long as I have enough of it, money doesn't really interest me. As they say, it's just a way of keeping score.

So my point is, sometimes it's better to give someone else "control" over your money. It's not supplication, it's just good business.

 

[joekerr31]

sorry i disagree.

every man should know how to handle his own money.

but yes, i suppose if you're too irresponsible to handle your own money wisely, then its better someone else does.

but guys who can't handle their own money wisely are going to have a tough time handling a woman wisely.

men shoudl be self sufficient. you should be able to cook for yourself, clean for yourself, mange your finances, etc...

To me being self sufficient in all areas that relate to your life is essential to being the best man you can be.

the only thing you should ever need a woman for in life is as a companion.

J

 

[Wyldfire]

joekerr...I honestly don't know many women who genuinely hate men. When I was younger I never hated men. I have never hated men at any point at all in my life. You know...even after the hell my ex husband put me through...I was still never bitter and I never blamed or judged other men based on one bad guy I ended up with.

Part of the problem with men believing that women really think this way I attribute to the media and those messages men get. Men are made to feel guilty when they've done nothing wrong. In many instances this ingrained sense of guilt tends to make men think that women hate men or blame them. In reality, I've only met a very, very few women who have a genuinely bad attitude towards men. Sure, I've met plenty of women who have that sense of entitlement and selfishness...but know what...I've met plenty of men who have the same sense of entitlement and selfishness.

Women in general don't really hate men...the messages society sends men just leads them to believe that they are hated.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by joekerr31
sorry i disagree.

every man should know how to handle his own money.

but yes, i suppose if you're too irresponsible to handle your own money wisely, then its better someone else does.

but guys who can't handle their own money wisely are going to have a tough time handling a woman wisely.

men shoudl be self sufficient. you should be able to cook for yourself, clean for yourself, mange your finances, etc...

To me being self sufficient in all areas that relate to your life is essential to being the best man you can be.

the only thing you should ever need a woman for in life is as a companion.

J

In a marriage...whoever is better at handling money and more responsible with it should take care of that stuff. That person who is handling it should NEVER leave the other person feeling like they are a child or beneath the other person. That's the kind of mentality that destroys so many relationships.

As long as his wife does a good job and is trustworthy then if his arrangement works for him he should go with that. You have to be more careful once you get older, though. My ex father in law had his wife handle the money because she was better at it for 30 years or better. Then she got alzheimers...and before they figured out what was going on she had all but cleaned out their savings with shopping sprees, repeated trips to dairy queen and KFC. Oh...and she used to pick up crack heads and take them out to eat and give them cash, too. Oh boy, that was something else again. She almost overdosed on sinus medicine once, too. Kept forgetting she took medicine before it kicked in and her nose was still stuffy.

 

[GirlCrazy]

Originally posted by joekerr31
sorry i disagree.

every man should know how to handle his own money.

but yes, i suppose if you're too irresponsible to handle your own money wisely, then its better someone else does.

but guys who can't handle their own money wisely are going to have a tough time handling a woman wisely.

men shoudl be self sufficient. you should be able to cook for yourself, clean for yourself, mange your finances, etc...

To me being self sufficient in all areas that relate to your life is essential to being the best man you can be.

the only thing you should ever need a woman for in life is as a companion.

J

When I was single I was completely self sufficient. I had an apartment 1 stoplight from the beach in newport, a cool car, a cute maid, the best thai food in town, etc - the typical self-indulgent bachelor. Eventually I would have hired a financial advisor. Being able to outsource some of those time consuming tasks doesn't mean you're not self sufficient. There's a difference between not knowing how to operate a vacuum cleaner and not having the time to use it.

I look at a marriage as a partnership. The two parties compliment each other. We both did great on our own, but together we're better than we would be separately. The whole is more than the sum of its parts. It's not that we *need* each other (those relationships never last), it's more like we're a team that kicks ass.

There's still room for self-improvement in a relationship. For example I'm now a great cook, and she's not afraid to use any of the tools in my roll-away (long as she stays away from anything labeled 'Dewalt'.)

 

[STR8UP]

Originally posted by GirlCrazy
Now I don't worry about money because I know it's handled. As long as my card works when I swipe it, and the bank doesn't ask for the house back, the money is better left in her hands. As long as I have enough of it, money doesn't really interest me. As they say, it's just a way of keeping score.

So my point is, sometimes it's better to give someone else "control" over your money. It's not supplication, it's just good business.

I hate to say it, but it looks to me like one day you are going to realize that you should have taken the time to learn how to deal with your finances yourself.

What are you doing for the future? Money IS NOT just a way of keeping score, it's a resource that allows you to maintain your lifestyle regardless of external factors. Making a six figure income is all well and good, but you better hope that your mind and body will allow you to show up for work every day for the rest of your life, otherwise you might find yourself with some serious financial problems.

If you are as clueless about your money as you say you are, don't be surprised one day when the well runs dry.

 

[joekerr31]

wyld and girlcrazy,

hey, im not making an issue of girlcrazy's situation.

im just saying that my view is ALWAYS know what is going on with your sh*t. If it's important to you, keep your eye on it, regardless of your situation.

that's just my view. I will always know what is going on with my money, married or not. now im good with money.

if my wife one day sucks with money, ill teach her how to be good with it, and i expect her to keep track of our money the same way i do.

i dont understand whats so hard with keeping track of your money. its not rocket science, it's 1+1+2 = 4. simple addition and subtraction.

anyway, its not just about money, its anything you consider important. Im not going to leave the raising of the kids JUST to my wife. you better believe i want to know whats going on with them and have hte opportunity to help them and guide them through life.

you never go wrong by looking after your sh*t. and if you can't look after your sh*t and need your woman to do it, my advice is to learn how to do it yourself. its not going to kill you to learn.

haha.
J

 

[GirlCrazy]

What are you doing for the future? Money IS NOT just a way of keeping score, it's a resource that allows you to maintain your lifestyle regardless of external factors. Making a six figure income is all well and good, but you better hope that your mind and body will allow you to show up for work every day for the rest of your life, otherwise you might find yourself with some serious financial problems.

You're totally correct, and I am getting a bit long in the tooth to worry about my future. Even the star quaterback gets too old to play - I came to that realization about a year ago. Since then I've done a lot of homework. Too bad the real estate market has cooled. We've done real well, but mostly by sheer dumb luck.

To answer your question, I've got several irons in the fire as far as the future goes. I come from a high-achieving, big spending, family of money-mismanagers, so we're all looking at this same problem together, as well as all moving our little empires to the pac northwest to combine our resources more effectively.

Hey STR8UP, I've seen your financial posts and I really appreciate your input. You know your sh!t - thanks man.

 

[GirlCrazy]

im just saying that my view is ALWAYS know what is going on with your sh*t. If it's important to you, keep your eye on it, regardless of your situation.

I understand what you're saying, man. I look at myself as the general, co-ordinating the battle and keeping my eye on the big picture. Micromanaging the troops lowers their morale.

But you're right, if the battle starts, and somebody forgot to put ammunition in the tanks, and everyone dies, it's the general's fault. As the general (nobody else wants the job), this responsibility weighs heavily on me.

So it's an issue of balance between micro-management and the other end of the spectrum, where the monkeys are running the circus while the ringleader is getting a bl0wjob 2 counties away. Oh well, nobody said life was easy LOL.

 

[STR8UP]

Good that you at least know you need to be doing SOMETHING.

Just got off the phone with my sister. I was informing her of an investment opportunity that looks pretty good to me.

Long story short- she has a contract pending to sell her house which will net her over $100k. I told her a little about the project I am getting into. Halfway through me explaining the details she cuts me off and says, "I'll talk it over with the hubby. Let me go now....I'm getting driving lessons with our new Vette". What a way to spend half of that windfall there, sis.

Then the other day her kids were asking why their uncle is "rich". And she says, "Well, lets see, never married, no kids, hmmm....." What a bunch of BS. It's cause when I sold two of my properties I have owned for years I used the proceeds to buy A DOZEN MORE instead of sportscars and swimming pools and other junk. And I own businesses and move my money and my credit to where it MAKES me money.

I honestly don't know where I get my money savvy cause my entire family is CLUELESS.