Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

When a girl comes back around

oldmanofthesea

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Here is the key sentence and bolded for emphasis.

Her terms: Why concede to those terms?

Her availability: Why concede to her availability?

Zero investment: Why concede to zero investing from her?

These are rhetorical questions not requiring an answer. Seems like you did a lot of concessions, and then got sick of conceding, and so dumped.

My only recommendation to you in this thread regarding this girl was to make her work, here. Such an act would have made her invest or IT would have stopped right there. By not making her invest upfront, you cemented the future frame of your investing into her terms.

I bring this to your attention as a reference point for the next girl, whom you will make invest.

I've been seeing a girl 20+ years my junior, 9 (a different girl than I mentioned in other threads), for a few months now. I happen to like this one. I treat her well. But I ensure that she invests a ton. For example, if I don't reach out, she must, or it will end right there ... and she knows that. If she does something (that any girl her age would normally do) not to my liking whatever that may be, she gets my withdrawal, which she is intuitively aware of, and her behavior corrects immediately. Boundaries and correction without my saying a word.

All women will test you. You gotta lay down the law from Day One or its already over.
I agree with all of this Guru, and thank you. Looking back though, I wonder what would have been better:
1. To get to sleep with a super hot girl for 7 months once a week and have to concede to her availability and terms and lack of investment (which is what happened)
2. To get to sleep with her for just a month and not conceded to her availability (which is what may have happened had I stuck to a strong frame)

If girls as hot as this one grew on trees for me, I'd say the latter. But that's not the case for me yet.... I get them from time to time, but not with abundance. There is a cost for #1 though, and that is the brain-scrambling it caused me. I was aware of this and kept telling myself I should be able to keep those emotions in control but ultimately I wasn't and to your exact point, I got sick of that and conceding and dumped. There is also an option 3 I didn't list above, which is the chance that if I stuck to my own strong frame, things would have worked out great.

You mention one form of female investment: her reaching out to you. What other forms of investment do you seek, and are any of them communicated directly - as in, something you overtly request her do?
 

lamath

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I agree with all of this Guru, and thank you. Looking back though, I wonder what would have been better:
1. To get to sleep with a super hot girl for 7 months once a week and have to concede to her availability and terms and lack of investment (which is what happened)
2. To get to sleep with her for just a month and not conceded to her availability (which is what may have happened had I stuck to a strong frame)

If girls as hot as this one grew on trees for me, I'd say the latter. But that's not the case for me yet.... I get them from time to time, but not with abundance. There is a cost for #1 though, and that is the brain-scrambling it caused me. I was aware of this and kept telling myself I should be able to keep those emotions in control but ultimately I wasn't and to your exact point, I got sick of that and conceding and dumped. There is also an option 3 I didn't list above, which is the chance that if I stuck to my own strong frame, things would have worked out great.

You mention one form of female investment: her reaching out to you. What other forms of investment do you seek, and are any of them communicated directly - as in, something you overtly request her do?
https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/getting-a-girl-to-invest-in-you.231112/
 

guru1000

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I agree with all of this Guru, and thank you. Looking back though, I wonder what would have been better:
1. To get to sleep with a super hot girl for 7 months once a week and have to concede to her availability and terms and lack of investment (which is what happened)
2. To get to sleep with her for just a month and not conceded to her availability (which is what may have happened had I stuck to a strong frame)

If girls as hot as this one grew on trees for me, I'd say the latter. But that's not the case for me yet.... I get them from time to time, but not with abundance. There is a cost for #1 though, and that is the brain-scrambling it caused me. I was aware of this and kept telling myself I should be able to keep those emotions in control but ultimately I wasn't and to your exact point, I got sick of that and conceding and dumped. There is also an option 3 I didn't list above, which is the chance that if I stuck to my own strong frame, things would have worked out great.

You mention one form of female investment: her reaching out to you. What other forms of investment do you seek, and are any of them communicated directly - as in, something you overtly request her do?
These hot girls don’t want a doormat. They want someone who is going to stir their ocean of feelings upside down; someone who will reprimand and dominate them; the untamable someone they have to work hard to win. You placed yourself on a silver platter available to her every whim, hence, you never allowed her attraction to grow. Then you dump her because of all of your constant surrenders when in reality it was not her fault, but your own. All you needed to do was to give her space and allow her to reach out. If she never did, then you dismiss her. Otherwise when she reaches out, schedule a date on your terms. If she declined and countered strictly on her availability, you decline and counter on yours. If she declined again, then proceed with, “sorry, seems like you have much on your plate and cannot coordinate while considering my schedule. If that changes in the future, feel Free to reach out. Take care :)

Listen, I agree fully, despite what the Manosphere reiterates as nauseum, that not every girl will touch you the same. I get it and experienced that less than a handful times among close to 1000. But even then, I never gave the girl my balls on a platter as by doing that I would lose part of myself, my self-respect, -value, and -paradigms—the structure of how I rule my life—all of that which would never allow me to concede to such an arrangement. I would rather take my own life than give my balls to another. Dramatic statement made in truth and for emphasis.

To answer your questions:

I utilize one question to determine whether to use overt or silent boundaries: is she aware of what she is doing?

If it’s a question of desire, she is aware of how she feels, so my boundaries are silent. For example, if I want her to reach out more, I don’t tell her that. Instead, I’ll give her space to do that.

If I want her to acquiesce to my schedule as in Your example, I will make it impossible to make plans otherwise. And if it continues and she did not get “it,” then I would dump her overtly as described above.

These are the primary investments, her time and attention for my own (which she earns commensurately with how willing and free she invests).

If I don’t like a specific word, behavior, act, clothing, thinking, or whatever else that she is not aware of, then I go overt. For example, the other day, the girl mentioned in the above post said something derogatory in response to a joke I made. I told her straight and in seriousness, “dont say that again.” She apologized and acknowledged she was out of line.

When they admire you, they will correct and fall in line as troopers. The quickest way to kill that admiration is to surrender your character to their whims.
 
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R

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Don’t do anything. Let it ride. When she comes back each time for your company enjoy her.

When I want to see my FWB it’s pretty simple.
“I woke up this morning with really dirty thoughts about you. “
Presto...booty. Of course she will text me as well when in need.

It’s not rocket science.
 

oldmanofthesea

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@guru1000 thanks for taking the time to list all that out.

I do want to mention that my operating in her frame wasn't always the case. There were many occasions where she asked for the date and she worked around my schedule. During one particularly busy month for me (lots of work and personal travel), she begged to see me more and made herself available. But as I became more invested, the tide just slowly started shifting. I never gave myself to her on a silver platter, but I fully admit I could have been stronger, and invested less than I did (because the level of investment was not warranted).

Ultimately the loss of self-respect I felt (to use your words) for over-investing in someone who hardly wanted it heavily contributed to my deciding to break it off.

Being as one-sided as you suggest is very counter-intuitive for me. You've made mention of this tactic in other threads that I've asked you to elaborate on and you have, thank you. I've said I would experiment with that but I admit I have not yet. I've definitely gone silent and waited for a girl to not only initiate communication, but also to ASK for a date, but I haven't forced it to be 100% on my terms. If she initiates and asks for the date, I'll reward her by accepting, and not go the extra step of calling out a day and refusing to budge to a mutual day. Internally, I'm still not sure this will work with the type of girls I see, but I also admit to having difficulty accepting that women want and respond to different things than men do, so I feel it is at least worth a try. I have little to lose.
 

guru1000

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OMTS and others, don’t misconstrue what I wrote to be one of an unmerited tyrannical frame. I advised accordingly based on your stating “her terms,” “her free time,” “her schedule,” “zero investing on her part.” In such an instant, I would act in kind as a complete tyrant.

However, in a situation, where the girl is free, flexible, and forthcoming and comes from a place of good intention, I will give her more than she gives me.

I can be very kind. But if she attempts to take advantage of my kindness, I can quickly change to that of a tyrant, whom she would wish she had never met or awoken. That’s the “edge” which allows them to appreciate your kindness and not confuse that for weakness.
 

Rainman4707

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I was getting a little irritated off with a girl recently. I work a lot of weekends recently so felt the need to push myself to fit into her schedule. She cannot do Tuesday or Wednesday because she has netball practice or gym class. Little irritating because i am putting these girls as No1 priority because my goal is to have a family.

One of my biggest flaws is that my goal is to have a family. Therefore I try my hardest to make things work if I meet a woman who has potential to be my future gf.
Ironic thing is, if I had a idgaf attitude I would probably achieve my goal. This world we live in seems to benefit the scoundrels over the good guy.

I'm currently looking for a job that will give me normal hours. No night or weekend work. That way I will be more available to women schedules. Im changing jobs for my benefit, not women.
I will not definitely not be a doormat to a woman. If I think she isn't commiting enough, I will look for one that will!
 
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