What's your objective?

[Colossus]

I posted this on my blog today, but I thought it would be a good forum topic.

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I notice that most game material is put forth with one unifying objective: to have sex with as many attractive women as possible, as efficiently as possible.

This is good in many ways, because it cuts through a lot of bullsh!t and gets to the nuts and bolts of game --the psychology, the action, and the most important thing of all, experience. Just like in the physical world, there are laws in male-female interactions and if you are aware of them you can achieve predictable results.

However, at a certain point for many guys this is no longer our objective. There is a point of diminishing returns where further lays and volume dating isn't yielding anything measurably positive to your life. If anything, you are just seeing patterns, not people, and some serious cynicism can ensue. I notice this especially in online dating, since patterns are more evident due to the standardized format.

As such, I've been reading a lot of day game material lately (due to my horrible deficiency in this area), and I got to thinking about what exactly my objective is. Day and night game models were developed with the objectives of meeting large numbers of women with the eventual goals of numbers, date(s), and sex. But is this really the best way to go about finding something more substantial than casual lays? I don't think so, and here's why:

The standard models of approach game as we know them today---Day and Night game---are based on efficiency, persistence, and volume. In other words, if you approach enough girls with the right system, you will get dates, lays, and as time goes on, you will get better and better to the point where it is second nature. But these systems are not discriminatory in the right ways for meeting women with a very specific subset of qualities that would make a good girlfriend and eventually wife. I'm part of the small manosphere clan that actually thinks marriage has merit for a man if approached properly.

Approaching cold has no other qualification measures than physical appearance and interest level. You approach good-looking women, and if your game is tight and they have sufficient interest it will go somewhere. But beyond this, you know NOTHING about the girl. It is an inefficient use of your time to more or less blindly approach large numbers of women if your objective is to find one to ride shotgun with you in the long haul. For this, you need to have a clear framework of what you want without being so rigid you dont allow for individual stories and differences. I think this is an excellent framework to start with if you want--*gasp*--a wife.

Now this is NOT an excuse not to approach women. Quite the contrary. It is a rationale for more selectively approaching women based on your objective. So how do you tailor your approaches? Well, common sense really. You are going to need to focus on places where your ideal girl will be more likely to appear; which pretty much rules out bars and clubs. If we are going off Bold and Determine's criteria (which I agree with), you could theoretically meet these girls anywhere, but more likely places would be church, hobby groups, and volunteer organizations. Essentially day game approaches, but you will use more of an opportunistic rather than shotgun approach. With a clear framework in mind, you will naturally hone in on likely targets and these opportunities will become more evident.

I realize this is nothing earth-shattering, but sometimes I think we forget (or just don't know) exactly what our objective is. This can result in a lot of spinning your wheels and disillusionment. A few broad points I want to add:

-Most men aren't mentally or practically ready to consider marriage until they are past 30. They lack the wisdom and sheer experience with many different types of women to make an informed, self-actualized decision.

-In general, I recommend 5 solid years of gaming and dating before coming to this juncture, although everyone is different. 100 years ago this wouldn't really be an issue, but the playing field is vastly different now. It is not tilted in men's favor. Women are socially glorified and even rewarded for what was considered deplorable behavior in the past. Honest and well-meaning guys can get tooled in myriad ways if they don't have both awareness and experience.

-Make game fundamentals a part of your being. Embrace your alpha persona, constantly self-improve, have an acute understanding of the psycho-social dynamics of the sexual marketplace, develop sound confidence based on achievements, and have a well-rounded life.

-As most of us know, men age better than women, both physically and in terms of opposite-sex value, so if you build your life continually and take care of your body, you will only continue to advance in value. Don't let women convince you otherwise.

 

[plate's_empty]

well said

 

[samspade]

Good stuff Colossus. I would only add that for men the first criterion will always be looks no matter what the context. As Rollo has said, you're not fukking her personality. So while I support the notion that scattershot approaches may not yield reliable results, if you're going to target women at libraries, meetups, or like-minded environments, you will still target based on looks and with good reason.

However I think a guy can do a lot of mental thin slicing based on physical appearance. Chances are within a few seconds of seeing a woman you can make a few vague but accurate presumptions, based on her hairstyle, dress, tattoos/piercings, overall look, etc. For me the look on her face says a lot too. We all have bad days, but if a woman is wearing "bytch face," especially while staring into the unblinking eye of her smartphone, I tend to stay away. I'm no New Ager, but I do believe people put out good or bad energy based on attitude, and that kind of thing can be palpable. Anyway if you don't sense it when you see her, you will probably sense it when you talk to her.

For me it's the doe-eyed petites with the friendly face, tight body, long hair and darker skin...though I'm flexible. If she's got a smile on her face like a girl on Xmas day would have, I consider it a good sign. Just as we should be mindful of what/how we project as men, so too should we read their projections.

 

[backbreaker]

beI've said this before but my end game never was to be 5 plate at a time guy out every night sarging every weekend guy. There have been times when I've had as many as 5 plates but that's not what I set out to do.

My end game always to find the right / perfect chord between work and play. Simply put, I know i'm a workaholic. I know the business I run, businesses, require a ****load of my time and to prevent myself from becoming the sterotypical rich beta male afc beucase i'm too busy to find love, i had to develop a specific skill set, and i had to become deadly accurate with it.

In other words, I had to be able to work my ass off, then when i go to the gym at night actually have enough game to talk to the girl whose on the treadmill. that's all I got lol. Or go to the post office and chat up the cutie pie right in front of me.

That's what it's been about with me; efficiently. not so much numbers. I've gotten numbers. I've gotten them quite efficiently. byt he time i met my wife i put very little effort into getting women yet always had them. dimes as well.

then when i met my now wife and decided hey, i really like this chick and wanted persue a LTR with her, the end game became how to I keep the frame with her yet at the same time still chasing my ambitions. that is more work than just gaming women, much more.

my biggest 2 issues are women who cause drama and not fearing approaching women. i don't have time for women who cause drama i don't care how hot she is and I had to lose every ounce of fear of rejection beucase i might get 1 shot a day but it might be at the bank and the woman might be dressed to the 9 looking like a professional and here i am in my gym clothes beucase i'm trying to get home after i left the gym. no ****s given lol.

 

[Lexington]

Well, common sense really. You are going to need to focus on places where your ideal girl will be more likely to appear; which pretty much rules out bars and clubs.

I disagree with this statement. There are plenty of Quality Women(tm) to be found in bars and clubs. There are also lots of fvcked up skanks that attend church. Now obviously the barroom slut is probably not the best LTR material, but plenty of attractive, well-adjusted women go to bars as well.

Just by sheer chance, the numbers game should land you your sought-after Quality Woman. In fact, by disqualifying large swaths of the female population, you are probably diminishing your chances. If you catch a fish that you don't like, you can always throw it back.

 

[Fuglydude]

I disagree with this statement. There are plenty of Quality Women(tm) to be found in bars and clubs. There are also lots of fvcked up skanks that attend church. Now obviously the barroom slut is probably not the best LTR material, but plenty of attractive, well-adjusted women go to bars as well.

Just by sheer chance, the numbers game should land you your sought-after Quality Woman. In fact, by disqualifying large swaths of the female population, you are probably diminishing your chances. If you catch a fish that you don't like, you can always throw it back.

Although I understand your point regarding the random chance of having quality girls vs. skanks at bars/clubs, you gotta admit that you're much more likely to meet girls with specific qualities if you're more selective about where/when you do your approaching.



Great post as usual Colossus.

I definitely agree with being selective about when/where you are looking for women. This is especially true when you're looking to settle down with an LTR or potential marriage. LTRs/Marriage is equivalent to putting all your investment capital into one venture. Therefore, it is of paramount importance to ensure that that venture is successful. Should the attempt be abortive then you've lost a lot more than if you had a more diversified portfolio/were spinning many plates.

In my case, when looking for a partner, I place a very high value on fitness/active lifestyle/gym/diet etc... Therefore, if I was single at present, I'd definitely look for women in the gym. I have a lot of meat head friends, and our social network runs through the gym and our local bodybuilding/powerlifting circles. Therefore, it would be prudent to use this social network as a resource to meet what I consider high value women.

A number of my close friends have met high quality women, HB8s' and above, at the gym. These girls are frequently competitors, who are not only in exceptional shape, but typically also have solid careers and personality traits/values that allow them compete. Most undisciplined whoores do not have the ability to tighten their lifestyle/diet/training for 16-20 weeks and get ready for a bikini/figure show...

 

[synergy1]

A number of my close friends have met high quality women, HB8s' and above, at the gym. These girls are frequently competitors, who are not only in exceptional shape, but typically also have solid careers and personality traits/values that allow them compete. Most undisciplined whoores do not have the ability to tighten their lifestyle/diet/training for 16-20 weeks and get ready for a bikini/figure show...

At this point in my life, I am not looking for quantity. Where I live, there isn't terribly much choice as most women are married and have kids between 23-25. Any women near my age is already divorced and/or has kids. It makes 'dating' more challenging for me. As I have said a thousand times on other threads, its much easier to date better quality women elsewhere.

With that in mind, I think my goals are to date the type of women I want to date and not settle. I quoted fuglydude because those are the types of women that would be great to date but are in such high demand and are so rare that I can literally look around for years and get nothing. Hence the problem is 1 -where to meet these women and 2- when to cut ones losses when its just not realistic given living situation.

 

[Colossus]

At this point in my life, I am not looking for quantity. Where I live, there isn't terribly much choice as most women are married and have kids between 23-25. Any women near my age is already divorced and/or has kids. It makes 'dating' more challenging for me. As I have said a thousand times on other threads, its much easier to date better quality women elsewhere.

With that in mind, I think my goals are to date the type of women I want to date and not settle. I quoted fuglydude because those are the types of women that would be great to date but are in such high demand and are so rare that I can literally look around for years and get nothing. Hence the problem is 1 -where to meet these women and 2- when to cut ones losses when its just not realistic given living situation.

Yeah synergy I hear ya on just having unfavorable circumstances to meet women. I'm lucky to live in a major city now, but I know how small towns or certain regions can just totally hamstring your game. Aside from the obvious solution of moving, there isn't too much you can do other than casting the net wide in hopes you'll pick up something worthwhile.

 

[synergy1]

Yeah synergy I hear ya on just having unfavorable circumstances to meet women. I'm lucky to live in a major city now, but I know how small towns or certain regions can just totally hamstring your game. Aside from the obvious solution of moving, there isn't too much you can do other than casting the net wide in hopes you'll pick up something worthwhile.

Thankfully with my job, moving to a great area is only a matter of motivation and some patience. The best part is, my career doesn't even have to change at all ( which in ones 30s is something good). That said, yeah the net has to be wider and this makes dating a little more difficult. Alas one must work with what they have. On the bright side, if you can do well in a more difficult region, than putting in the same level of effort yields much better results elsewhere.

What major city do you live near now? While some cities are better than others, I'd imagine that there is at least a variety of selection where you are.

 

[Colossus]

A number of my close friends have met high quality women, HB8s' and above, at the gym. These girls are frequently competitors, who are not only in exceptional shape, but typically also have solid careers and personality traits/values that allow them compete. Most undisciplined whoores do not have the ability to tighten their lifestyle/diet/training for 16-20 weeks and get ready for a bikini/figure show...

Yeah man I've never actually met girls at my gyms. I think bodybuilding gyms would be more conducive to that, but I've always gone to male-dominated power gyms and local mom and pop type places. I think the next scene I need to break into is local activity groups. I just realized these are everywhere in the city.

 

[Colossus]

What major city do you live near now? While some cities are better than others, I'd imagine that there is at least a variety of selection where you are.

I live in Denver, so there is plenty of variety. I just need to find the right niche, and now that I have a job that allows me to really pursue my hobbies full-force I think I'm on the right track.

I used to live in new england though, and aside from Boston it's rough with the female selection pool.

 

[synergy1]

I live in Denver, so there is plenty of variety. I just need to find the right niche, and now that I have a job that allows me to really pursue my hobbies full-force I think I'm on the right track.

I used to live in new england though, and aside from Boston it's rough with the female selection pool.

I have a friend just outside of denver right now who seems to be doing well in that regard. he's dating someone now as far as I know, but utilized the whole online thing to get it. Not really a bar type guy, but he seems to have found his nitche.

New England is brutal for women, especially where I am ( outside of Boston). Other posts outline this so I won't belabor that point. I think even with adversity, its a smart idea to maintain ones objective even if it seems out of reach at the current time. Situations change so quickly that ones hard work and opportunism will pay off in my mind. However, the discouragement of the situation is certainly difficult at times to deal with. The online route has supplemented helping ease the 'desperation' a little, but as suggested by the threads first post - it would be nice to define some goals and follow through with them.

Actually thats a good segway into a question - would day game be a good idea in new england? My original thesis on the subject is no. Word spreads VERY quickly around here, and its just one more reason to be ostracized from social groups. its not saying to be a creepy desperate person, but having the label of womenizer doesn't help ones cause around here. I guess my question is this , besides the normal outlets of the weekends, whats a good way to meet age appropriate women during the day outside of straight up day approaching?

 

[visions]

your post serves as a great reminder to men to re-evaluate their objectives before applying game.

to me it seems obvious that "game" is something dynamic-the way you apply it varies on the context- e.g. your objective, the vibe, the location, culture etc.

i get the impression most sosuavers are looking for the easy lasy (myself included), and there's no shortage of game tips for that objective.

but for someone looking for a wife, i don't think "game" should be such that applying it takes you out of your element. doing so will only make you a dr. jekyll and mr. hyde. and you will have a mr. hyde wife.

in terms of meeting a marriage-worthy wife, i'd recommend game to consist of applying more stringent standards to prospective females, as you mentioned. that means no bars or clubs. and probably no one night stands with them. and generally, a slower pace. and lastly, when seeking a prospective wife, i recommend that "game" consist nothing more than you being your confident self in front of a female-no acts

 

[synergy1]

i get the impression most sosuavers are looking for the easy lasy (myself included), and there's no shortage of game tips for that objective.

Well yes and no. In one sense, the byproduct of trying to be social and get dates is having ONS. Actually this is not my objective at the moment, but it happens more often than meeting a women I really gel with.

If I had to sum up my real objective today, it would be quite simple - to not be bored with life. While women have a part in that, its not the entire objective. Meeting interesting women, or anyone for that matter is something I strive to do. Its why I follow blogs like RTs and read this forum. There are interesting people who have a lot to offer in terms of perspective. However when it comes to women, its difficult to meet interesting and attractive women. I think that a few others have suggested that this is also their objective, and not necessarily just a ONS..

 

[visions]

Actually thats a good segway into a question - would day game be a good idea in new england? My original thesis on the subject is no. Word spreads VERY quickly around here, and its just one more reason to be ostracized from social groups. its not saying to be a creepy desperate person, but having the label of womenizer doesn't help ones cause around here. I guess my question is this , besides the normal outlets of the weekends, whats a good way to meet age appropriate women during the day outside of straight up day approaching?

I don't know what you mean by "straight up approaching". perhaps cold street approaches? i approach women anytime i see one that catches my eye whether they're at bus stops, walking on a street, in a store, a park, mall, etc.

secondly, if you think day game is a bad idea, then i don't know how you are supposed to meet women. boston is a large city and i doubt the whole city's women will know that you have cold -approached woman x and woman y at some point.

 

[visions]

Well yes and no. In one sense, the byproduct of trying to be social and get dates is having ONS. Actually this is not my objective at the moment, but it happens more often than meeting a women I really gel with.

If I had to sum up my real objective today, it would be quite simple - to not be bored with life. While women have a part in that, its not the entire objective. Meeting interesting women, or anyone for that matter is something I strive to do. Its why I follow blogs like RTs and read this forum. There are interesting people who have a lot to offer in terms of perspective. However when it comes to women, its difficult to meet interesting and attractive women. I think that a few others have suggested that this is also their objective, and not necessarily just a ONS..

if you are looking for quality women then i would be wary of many of the game tips you read here, since as i mentioned, the majority are tailored to maximizing lays, and not necessarily attracting "quality" women.

if i were interested in meeting quality people (however you define that), i would aim for genuineness in conversation, being your normal and confident self, and let relationships (male or female) take their natural course