What is the rate of success of Pro Don Juans

[Dr. Reed]

I did it because I was a total player. Some times I approached the same chick twice and get her number the second time and she has to remind me I already stood her up.

Honestly I went for "insta pulls" way more than I actually asked for dates. One year I accumulated about 50 one night stands. Then again, I always reserved one night out of the week to seduce women. I would collect 10+ numbers every night out and throw it away.

Compare that to getting numbers and trying to call women and having conversations - that's the stuff no-one has time for or even interest in unless she was relationship worthy.

Of course nowadays my approach is different. Nowadays I don't even date or talk to women unless I see long term potential in her and I usually run into a woman like that once a year.

By the end of my run I was seeing only women that I would consider for marriage. I was 41 an ready to settle down. As far as phone convo's go, the phone is for one, and only omne thing: Making dates. If you have long convoys you become her girl friend. Even my three regulars did not get calls that lasted more than 3-4 minutes. Ring, ring "hi sweetie how are you?" She talks for a minute or so, I listen and then close.

50 one night stands are not appealing at all. All the hassle of pick up for one bout of sex? I had my share of one night stands, believe me. The best sex comes after you have had sex a few times. The one to two month mark= tons of higher quality sex. I was too busy to go out more than once a week. My rotation would come over to my place. We immediately had sex. usually 3 times, sometimes 4. 4 needs Viagra, lol.

I probably had at least 60 one night stands throughout my life, and most of the women were not worth seeing again. Again, I am older and wanted to settle down. When I was in my twenties, yes I ****ed tons of women from the clubs, especially when I was working the door. It was fun but not something I am still interested in.

Keep in mind: We are at different junctures of our life. I am 55 years old. Clubbing and sexing lots of women was great when I was young. You are 32, a transitional age. Keep playing for three more years. At 35 start looking around. Even with my system well developed I spent 6 years building rotations, I was in a committed relationship 4 times, but I will only settle down with a woman who gives me what I call "The Golden Year." I was engaged to 3 different women but it did not work out. Then I met my wife (and kept my rotation for the first two months of dating her. We got engaged (I was 44) and married a year later.

The point is, my system is for guys who are ready to start getting serious. It took me 6 years to find mine, and another 2 before we actually married. 8 years total of mind blowing sex. I was 45.

Even if you got serious, you would most likely get married at 40 using my system. I recommended that you stay a pure player for 3 more years. You would then be 43. Trust me, at 43 the things you want will change.

Now of course, you do not need or want my system, you are what we term "a natural." Most guys I coach do not have your natural game.

But when you get older your priorities will change. My 10 year old son is a terror on the wrestling mat and also has very solid wrestling skills. At my age, my family is the most amazing thing in my life.

It is also nice to have someone help pay for the bills.

 

[Dr. Reed]

I did it because I was a total player. Some times I approached the same chick twice and get her number the second time...

Of course nowadays my approach is different. Nowadays I don't even date or talk to women unless I see long term potential in her and I usually run into a woman like that once a year.

You are ready to transition. I can give you the first four chapters of my book. You are already an accomplished PUA. However I am the expert on finding the highest quality women possible. Most guys I work with need remedial work on mindset, opening/closing etc.

There are many specifics I cover that you do not get in the seduction community. Brain chemistry, the difference between white/grey brain matter etc. Evolutionary adaptations explain why women are the way they are, and how we can stimulate her brain and understand her operational paradigm which is 100% different than the male paradigm. PUA stuff works well because much of it is compatible with science, but there is a lot more if you get into the real science.

Using MRI it is possible to view the emotion of love in the brain! You can literally see it.

Do you still want to be out at the clubs when you are 50?

You need to understand the science and moral/legal/political/structural analysis I give. Also, you need my material on how to manage a 3 women rotation without lying. I plan on selling the book for $20 or more. Its your for free if you like, just give me an email addy and some good feedback.

I am looking for feedback from smart guys like you.

 

[Dr. Reed]

I did it because I was a total player. Some times I approached the same chick twice and get her number the second time and she has to remind me I already stood her up.

Honestly I went for "insta pulls" way more than I actually asked for dates. One year I accumulated about 50 one night stands. Then again, I always reserved one night out of the week to seduce women. I would collect 10+ numbers every night out and throw it away.

Compare that to getting numbers and trying to call women and having conversations - that's the stuff no-one has time for or even interest in unless she was relationship worthy.

Of course nowadays my approach is different. Nowadays I don't even date or talk to women unless I see long term potential in her and I usually run into a woman like that once a year.

Here is a little something I wrote about brain differences between men and women:
Men and Women Have Different Hard Wiring

Neurobiology tells us that male brains utilize about 6.5 times more Grey matter for activity while female brains utilize nearly ten times more white matter. What does this difference mean? Our brains are fundamentally different.

Grey matter areas of the brain are information to action centers. Grey matter contains lots of cell bodies and relatively few myelinated axons, while white matter contains relatively few cell bodies and lots of of myelinated axons.1 White matter affects learning distribution and coordinates communication between different brain regions. It is more process oriented.2 That is why females operate from what I call a “Process Oriented Paradigm.”

Grey matter creates more focus, more intensity, a tunnel vision when doing something like hunting. Once they are deeply engaged in a task, men may not demonstrate much sensitivity to other people or their surroundings.3 This tunnel vision is why men operate from what I call “The Problem-Solution Paradigm.”

White matter enables females to take on multiple tasks all at once without breaking a sweat. “Women are great multi-taskers, while men excel in highly task-focused projects.”4 My wife manages a large medical facility. She can handle a three person conference call, compose an email, and watch her favorite cooking show all at once. Women are more empathetic and better at making emotional connections.5

For more than 100 thousand years the Problem Solution Paradigm and The Process Oriented Paradigm enabled Homo Sapien to adapt, survive, and build civilizations. Men and women are different, but both Paradigms were necessary for survival.

1 Purves, Dale; George J. Augustine; David Fitzpatrick; William C. Hall; Anthony-Samuel LaMantia; James O. McNamara; Leonard E. White (2008). Neuroscience (4th ed.). Sinauer Associates. pp. 15–16. ISBN 978-0-87893-697-7.

2Douglas Fields, R. (2008). "White Matter Matters". Scientific American. 298 (3): 54–61. Bibcode:2008SciAm.298c..54D. doi:10.1038/scientificamerican0308-54.



3Jantz, 2014. Brain Differences Between Genders, Psychology Today Feb. 27

4Ibid.

5Crespi and Badcock, 2008 Battle of the sexes may set the brain.Nature. 2008 Aug 28;454(7208):1054-5. doi:10.1038/4541054a.

 

[wifehunter]

It just got really windy in this thread.

 

[SuckItUp]

Hard to put a number but let's say a good closer of new leads is 4+%.

That's for simply going up to 100 women with good game and ignoring signals.

A pro will filter 1000-1500 woman to get the 100 top prospects and have a much better closing number.

For the top guys it's easy to do well because they ignore women who don't show interest or filter them quickly.

Hard to put a number on it because it becomes a question of when does the pick up begin?

When a guy starts talking to a woman or when he asks for number starts with kino, etc?

 

[Dr. Reed]

Hard to put a number but let's say a good closer of new leads is 4+%.

That's for simply going up to 100 women with good game and ignoring signals.

A pro will filter 1000-1500 woman to get the 100 top prospects and have a much better closing number.

For the top guys it's easy to do well because they ignore women who don't show interest or filter them quickly.

Hard to put a number on it because it becomes a question of when does the pick up begin?

When a guy starts talking to a woman or when he asks for number starts with kino, etc?

Recognizing buying signals, eye contact, 3 second rule, approaching and opening with relaxed confidence takes practice. That is why I suggest canned openers (like Jealous Girlfriend opener) for new guys as a fall back.

 

[fastlife]

.

Like I said, you seem to be a good guy, you just don't understand how the female mind works. You are probably charismatic in person, but there are so many mistakes here I will only touch upon the largest. When you say women have changed between 2005 and 2017 are you implying that they have evolved, that their brain structure is new?

No, we have not changed much in the last 8 thousand years. The principles of generating romantic love are the same. Newer techs like text messaging have not changed the mind one bit. If you understand brain chemistry and evolutionary hard wiring you will understand how and why text messaging early on in a relationship creates problems AND kills interest level.

I advocate running a three woman rotation (Tue, Thursday/Sat) because (among other things) it creates situations an feelings that work on the female brain

Our brains are fundamentally different. Have you studied evolutionary psychology/biology? Do you understand how more than 100,000 years of evolution have structured the mind? Before you do anything you must first understand these differences. My system is based upon the science of the human mind

Grey matter areas of the brain are information to action centers. Grey matter contains lots of cell bodies and relatively few myelinated axons, while white matter contains relatively few cell bodies and lots of of myelinated axons. White matter affects learning distribution and coordinates communication between different brain regions. It is more process oriented. That is why females operate from what I call a “Process Oriented Paradigm.” You must understand how women operate.

You say you "field tested all that." What do you mean? Here are the basics you need to reject understand my position. Do you understand the basic structural and operational paradigm that women have? It is different from men. There is an article in the Bible regarding texting you should read. Yes, when you are getting a woman's number, text her while you are still in front of her to make shure the number is legit, but absolutely no more. You don't set up the date, you disappear for 3 4 days then you CALL. TYexting is weak. Women have a biological drive created by evolutionary adaptations to pair bond with only the strongest men! Texting is weak, weak, weak. Be a man, call.

Two factors--genes & then how those genes are expressed according to environmental factors. You're ignoring the effects of the second. Search my username & lymbic system & you'll find I'm just a little brushed up on the elements of arousal that have been hardwired--before language or the development of the prefrontal cortex.

Throw in Neuroplasticity & you can't pretend that the advent of the smartphone hasn't fundamentally changed the way humans do/interpret social interaction. You can't pretend that abundance (or the illusion of it) doesn't drastically change human behavior--for instance, humans who live next door to Golden Corral will demonstrate a very different set of behaviors from humans that live in the Kalahari Desert--down to changes in their cellular biology--even as both sets of humans are motivated & dictated by the same evolutionary hard-wiring.

You can't pretend that pretend that the human brain is very good at distinguishing real dopamine sources from artificial dopamine sources. The loser who plays World of Warcraft all day in his parent's basement doesn't feel like an evolutionary loser. And while he has testosterone dictating that he needs to get laid to pass on copies of his DNA, throw on some porn, rub one out, and his brain doesn't know the difference. The same holds true for women with their competing needs for Security & Sexual Arousal. Plenty of girls will forgo a night out where they might meet a cool, real life guy who would be a suitable genetic pairing for a night of Netflix where her mind can vicariously interpret even better subcomms & emotional stimulation from McDreamy while she binge watches Grey Anatomy. Even as that works directly against her evolutionary directives.

This isn't to discount your book or your coaching. Sounds like it contains tons of value. BUT opening girls and getting numbers =/= sex. It =/= ever seeing that girl again. You don't cheat but do us a favor--every time you get a number, call her 3-4 days later. Present us a chart of how often these girls (and, to account for generational differences, let's stick to girls >25) pick up your calls. I've already tried that approach--you'll get a 95% nonresponse rate--no matter how tight your game was in person.

 

[The Duke]

I am very selective on who I approach, but out of 10 girls I might approach, I end up getting numbers from 3 of them. 1 out of those 3 ends up dropping her panties.

 

[beforeimgone]

I've recently got back in the game after a long hiatus. Was married for a while, then sick for many years. Healthy now. Use to be good player 15 years ago, always had many girls at once, now getting back into it step by step.

Started again like 3 weeks ago. Been approaching lots. Getting numbers. I managed to the the numbers of 2 different girls at a party, then invite them both to an afterparty and they both came. I called them a few days later for dates. One gave an excuse, the other said yes, but then stood me up the day of the date.

I'm wondering what is your rate of success when you get numbers? The girl seems interested, she gives you her number. What is the percentage of this that leads to getting a date? I'd like to know from the best Don Juan, as a way to gauge how I am doing.

I enjoy approaching women and getting laid instantly. I don't take numbers much because I am way more interested in the insta lay.

If the girl is super interested, but not willing to do anything the same day she meets me then she will continually ask me to get her number. I am reluctant to pull my phone out around women because I don't want them seeing the texts that pop up on my screen.

Keeping track of those types of things is a huge pain for me because it is a lot of work. I try to be in the moment so I can notice susceptibility.

It's all a numbers game, bud. Good luck!

 

[pancakepalace]

That's a good point. I realized yesterday, that when I met this girl super fast, I should have asked her out on the spot instead of asking for her contact into. I'm going to do like you know, ask for a date as soon as possible, before the number.

 

[mellow_yellow]

I was curious with the same question too.

I agree that guys shouldn't get hung up on numbers and percentages and instead focus on the bigger picture of improving themselves. But I think getting an idea of how the best guys do overall gives you perspective on where you're at. The sobering insight I got from this thread is you must be approaching a LOT of women constantly because you can't lay every woman for whatever reason even with excellent game...her flaking, her weird issues, and your mistakes as a DJ. These "low" 5-10% lay closure rates for the experienced guys remind me of baseball stats. If you're not a baseball person, you would think hitting the ball 3 out of 10 times means the hitter sucks when actually that's the real average for the professionals in the major leagues.

Since the world is using data science as a tool, it'd be kinda neat to keep personal and group stats to gauge your progress. The negatives would be guys getting obsessed with the numbers when they should be going out and practicing instead plus DJs just dissing each other on how they're better than each other on the forum lol

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Two factors--genes & then how those genes are expressed according to environmental factors. You're ignoring the effects of the second. Search my username & lymbic system & you'll find I'm just a little brushed up on the elements of arousal that have been hardwired--before language or the development of the prefrontal cortex.

Throw in Neuroplasticity & you can't pretend that the advent of the smartphone hasn't fundamentally changed the way humans do/interpret social interaction. You can't pretend that abundance (or the illusion of it) doesn't drastically change human behavior--for instance, humans who live next door to Golden Corral will demonstrate a very different set of behaviors from humans that live in the Kalahari Desert--down to changes in their cellular biology--even as both sets of humans are motivated & dictated by the same evolutionary hard-wiring.

You can't pretend that pretend that the human brain is very good at distinguishing real dopamine sources from artificial dopamine sources. The loser who plays World of Warcraft all day in his parent's basement doesn't feel like an evolutionary loser. And while he has testosterone dictating that he needs to get laid to pass on copies of his DNA, throw on some porn, rub one out, and his brain doesn't know the difference. The same holds true for women with their competing needs for Security & Sexual Arousal. Plenty of girls will forgo a night out where they might meet a cool, real life guy who would be a suitable genetic pairing for a night of Netflix where her mind can vicariously interpret even better subcomms & emotional stimulation from McDreamy while she binge watches Grey Anatomy. Even as that works directly against her evolutionary directives.

This isn't to discount your book or your coaching. Sounds like it contains tons of value. BUT opening girls and getting numbers =/= sex. It =/= ever seeing that girl again. You don't cheat but do us a favor--every time you get a number, call her 3-4 days later. Present us a chart of how often these girls (and, to account for generational differences, let's stick to girls >25) pick up your calls. I've already tried that approach--you'll get a 95% nonresponse rate--no matter how tight your game was in person.

Very good