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What is frame?

Baji

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Thanks. In my example, I was actually referring to a male colleague.

But how would it look if I was falling into their frame?

For example, I arranged a date with a woman, but everything I took her she want interested in. So in the end we went eventually to what she liked.

And to add to your point about not interacting: are you saying if they do not enter your frame, you walk away / don't let them use you as an emotional tampon?
If you're falling into someone's frame, then you're the one doing the responding. You have little to no influence on the direction of the conversation. Once you go from 'is this girl any fun?' to 'I want her to like me, or, I don't want her to think I'm like all these guys' then you're losing frame. Once you're going out of your way to prove anything then it's a No.

For the date, if a girl is genuinely attracted to, or interested in you, then being with you is the entertainment, the external factors are just extra. In this case, she's more interested in the date than you, so I'll say she's a low-interest babe, forget her and spin more plates.

Also, I think you should go through the entire DJ bible http://www.djbible.classicalgasemissions.com/ try to understand the intent behind the posts and apply them before you ask questions. Hands down the best guide out there

If its a woman you're dating, then she must be in your frame, if she doesn't get in then move on. Trust me, you don't want to be with someone who establishes her frame, absolutely terrible experience. DO NOT be anyone's emotional tampon, people can share their emotions and experiences with you and ask for your input. But once it gets to the scenario you described previously, don't be that guy that just listens to people spew sh!t, I'm sure there is a plethora of more reasonable things you can do with your time.
 

sceneparade

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If you're falling into someone's frame, then you're the one doing the responding. You have little to no influence on the direction of the conversation. Once you go from 'is this girl any fun?' to 'I want her to like me, or, I don't want her to think I'm like all these guys' then you're losing frame. Once you're going out of your way to prove anything then it's a No.

For the date, if a girl is genuinely attracted to, or interested in you, then being with you is the entertainment, the external factors are just extra. In this case, she's more interested in the date than you, so I'll say she's a low-interest babe, forget her and spin more plates.

Also, I think you should go through the entire DJ bible http://www.djbible.classicalgasemissions.com/ try to understand the intent behind the posts and apply them before you ask questions. Hands down the best guide out there

If its a woman you're dating, then she must be in your frame, if she doesn't get in then move on. Trust me, you don't want to be with someone who establishes her frame, absolutely terrible experience. DO NOT be anyone's emotional tampon, people can share their emotions and experiences with you and ask for your input. But once it gets to the scenario you described previously, don't be that guy that just listens to people spew sh!t, I'm sure there is a plethora of more reasonable things you can do with your time.
Which scenario? The guy colleague? We no longer talk. For once, I held frame and ended the friendship due to their constant negative opinions on others. As I was blunt with him for grassing me up, he blocked me. I suspect - due to his negative views on others - he has since bad-mouthed me to other colleagues. But in this case, it was my values to be negative towards others, so I walked. Hopefully for once it means I held frame.
 

MtmVaott

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Frame is your regard for a situation or circumstance
I'll add my own experience about frame.

First of all, it really is that general. It's the angle from where you are looking at something. It's the interpretation of reality.
That interpretation is affected by the own values, beliefs, opinions and desires because we try to make reality comply with them.

Very easy example is this forum: Some may see a place of learning, some may see a place of mysoginistic, hateful men, some may see pathetic loosers complaining. The assessment tells you more about the person than about this forum itself.

Women are the web weavers. They control men by controlling their frame.
They create an image for us that is in their interest.
That's why people here advice to force women to action by asking them out: They have to give a clear statement that is not subject to interpretation.
That's also why women gaslight: They want to obfuscate their clear statement afterwards, so they can again manipulate your reality to their benefit.

Here is also the tragedy of so many men found:
They act.
They pay extra attention on her verbal and non-verbal communication and her actions.
They adapt their own behaviour based on her reaction.
-> She is in control.

Another process is this:
A man reveals something about himself because of his direct communication style or by a facial expression.
She derives a value, belief, opinion or desire from it and integrates it in her impression about him.
She uses the new information by adapting the image he has about her in such a way that it benefits her.
-> She is in control.

A good example of the latter is when changes in her interest level happen:
At first, she is flirting, seems to be single, is available, compliant, amiable and sexual.
Something 'disqualifying' occurs but she has to remain on friendly terms.
She answers tersely, mentions her boyfriend, acts professional constantly, 'forgets' personal information about you, exhibits behaviour she knows you don't like or she expects you not to like, expresses contrary opinions.
She wants your van for a vacation with her boyfriend in three months.
She doubts her relationship, is professional only when required, else friendly, drops behaviour you don't like and picks up behaviours you do like, doubts her contrary opinions, creates van vacations as a conversational topic.

Why do most women like mysterious men? Because it's much harder to figure them out and they are not easily controlled by others.
Why do most women like experienced men? Because it's much harder to manipulate their reality and they are not easily controlled by others.
Why do most women like dominant men? Because they are in a position of power and actively shape the world to their liking. If the woman controls the dominant man, she can shape the world to her liking.

As a consequence, the mysterious, experienced and dominant man is very sought after.
However, he is both powerful and uncontrollable. Therefore, he is only able to form a relationship with a woman that either submits completely and is of little use or with a woman that sees the world like he does.

If a man tries to be mysterious, experienced and dominant, he walks into both traps described above.

So it's clear operating in your own frame is advantageous for live in general.
A problem is the power dynamic: If someone else has more power than you, you better submit to his or her frame.
If you get into a new group as an outsider, you either submit to the frame of the group or you remain an on-looker.

For me, the relevant question has become this:
What do I want and how do I get it?
I can temporarily submit to different frames. I think this is absolutely normal, think of regular people who work.

Example: Chick that works in gym.
I'm interested in her but don't want to approach in the gym. She notices though.
She positions herself closely, expecting me to approach. I don't.
Next time I enter the gym, she doesn't greet, leans against the reception desk with her back (on the side of the reception that is for the staff).
I go to the side that is for the gym members, directly behind her (like 50cm away) to fill out my workout plan. She doesn't turn.
Unphased I fill out the plan and start my workout.
I get Covid.
After 2 months I finally return to the gym, she is even more interested.

Example: Chick in a club (not a disco, I mean something like a soccer club) that has a higher status than me and that I depend on.
I'm completely new in the club.
I meet her and I'm interested (romantically). I start flirting, she reciprocates. I catch feelings.
During the next days, I understand I will depend on her and that she is at the top hierarchical position of the club.
I converse with her about club related stuff over chat the next two weeks.
A club event with a lot of members happens, including her. I am super stressed because I know nobody.
She starts a conversation with me but I impolitely end it right away and walk off.
She has casual sex with one of the dudes there.
Next (smaller) event, she mentions her BF and asks me a solely personal question to which she already got the answer the first time we met.
In chat conversation the next days, she remembers an information about me from the first time we met, but that information is relevant to the club.

So what I want to say: Frame is all good, but you can't beat women at their own game. Go for what you want, work on stoicism, work on assertiveness and aggression. That's enough.
 
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