what game is she playing?

[-HPNOTIQ-]

If you start to see a change in behavior it means that she is either fukking someone else or WILL BE shortly.

I've been with more than a few women in my lifetime and I've NEVER seen it go down any other way.

Dood...that's the most paranoid thing I've ever heard.

And we can go on about how many women you've slept with and I can go on about how many women I've slept with...but if you can say you've NEVER seen it go down ANY other way than the girl cheating on you or leaving you shortly after...then STR8UP...I'm not concerned about you...but more in the type of women you're bedding.

Does it happen? Certainly. Do people get cheated on? Better believe it. But to say that a EVERYTIME a women is distant that she is or will be sleeping with someone else is pretty narrow minded.

You've never known a woman receive a more demanding job, thus, showed you less time?

You've never known a woman that suffered loss of a family member, thus, showed you less time?

You've never known a woman that was adjusting to a new move, thus, showed you less time?

Common bro...In MacAvoy's scenerio..like I said, I don't know the specifics. Maybe she's banging his brother, priest, and rhabi. But, to make a blanket statement that EVERYTIME a woman has a change of behavior will ultimately lead to infedelity..that's a pretty negative outlook on things.

Like I said, at length, in my replies...He should stop guessing and worrying about IF she is...and grab his n*ts and straight up resolve this issue.

 

[STR8UP]

Dood...that's the most paranoid thing I've ever heard.

And we can go on about how many women you've slept with and I can go on about how many women I've slept with...but if you can say you've NEVER seen it go down ANY other way than the girl cheating on you or leaving you shortly after...then STR8UP...I'm not concerned about you...but more in the type of women you're bedding.

I haven't. And I'm not speaking from just my experience but also from my observation of friend's relationships.

If there is a logical reason, you will know what it is and be able to recognize it and chances are you WON'T be concerned enough about it to ask others their opinion. If you can't easily find a VERY logical reason for it then chances are it has to do with her lack of interest in you and she is on her way out the door.

It's easy to explain something like this logically if there is a logical explanation, but if your gut tells you something is wrong you better listen.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

To qualify...I'm not sure whom your friends are and if they at all have read or come across any of this DJ literature...In the event they are AFC's, that's probably the reason why they were cheated on by other women. AFC's are cheated on ALL the time.

My point was to not think she's banging someone already or that she has one foot out the door. Why think in terms of worst case scenerio? Most of the people replying are stating that this girl is ALREADY sleeping with someone else.

Maybe she is. I haven't read enough of this soap opera to get a full take on it. But, this consistent negative attitude toward women's thought process in a majority of these posts is pretty ridiculous. Especially in the MATURE MAN forum.

Read 99 out of 100 posts on here, and the guy is worried about the gf not calling him thinking she's banging another fella. When in reality, she genuinely had a good reason she didn't call (dead cell battery, fell asleep, was genuinely busy)...and let's see how many pessimists on sosuave clamor to the idea that she didn't call because she's in bed with another man.

Low interest and a genuine "re-focusing" of her interest's somewhere else are two completely different things. Albeit, a great gray area exists. And, if your gut tell's you she's f*cking around, you're right, she probably is. I tend to agree with my gut 99.9% of the time.

But, to have the foresight to believe people or women will always be the same way...that's absurd.....funny thing.....sometimes when you give "quality" people a chance...they have a tendency of surprising you. If she's is "quality" can only be determined by the MacAvoy.

Who's right...who's wrong...who cares? Its a forum of dialog and disagreement and perception. We can go on in circles with this subject. You have your own take...I have mine...and anyone reading this will have theirs.

My basic point was for MacAvoy to get to the bottom of this sh*t...stop thinking theory...and start applying theory.

 

[Phyzzle]

If you start to see a change in behavior it means that she is either fukking someone else or WILL BE shortly.

I haven't been cheated on in years (at least, I'm as sure as I can be). But I agree: if she gets distant, she will eventually be sleeping with another guy, and she will do it BEFORE she dumps you.

The reason this doesn't happen to me anymore is because I don't stick around when the interest level drops.

Yes, it's happened to me in the past, just like str8up and all of his friends. But after I got all the facts in hindsight, the relationship was WAY over with before the cheating happened. The girls had already been sick of me long before. (And for good reason, I was AFC.)

The point is, don't stick around and put up with low interest, and you don't have to worry about all this "banging another guy" crap. Low interest happens before cheating, not after.

 

[STR8UP]

The point is, don't stick around and put up with low interest, and you don't have to worry about all this "banging another guy" crap. Low interest happens before cheating, not after.

Exactly.

And it's pretty easy to tell the difference between someone being busy versus being disinterested when you are conscious of the process.

The SECOND you get that gut feeling, it's all over, there's nothing you can do but jump ship knowing you have a life preserver in the fact that you got out before it caused you any more grief than necessary.

The last chick I was seeing had booked a few trips back to her hometown over a short period of time. She started complaining of all of the traveling that she had committed to and how she was sick of having to sleep on people's couches when she was there. Next thing you know she stops calling on a regular basis and happens to book a couple more trips back home. Hmmm....must have found some more comfortable SLEEPING arrangements....

Didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. It was a little different since she was traveling so much and our relationship was pretty casual to begin with, but as soon as my gut started screaming at me I knew the deal and I dealt with it accordingly.

I firmly believe that you can know 90% of what is going on behind your back if you just learn how to read between the lines.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

You guys are paranoid and I'm believing it comes from a true lack of self confidence, and the confidence you have in the women you decide to be in a LTR with.

Yes...people get cheated on.

Yes...you can have a gut sense in things.

Am I being delusional? Probably.

But why jump ship on a hunch? A gut reaction? If, and only IF, she is a quality woman...wouldn't you give the benefit of the doubt? What YOU guys are dealing with aren't LTR's at all. You give LTR's the benefit of the doubt.

And I'm just talking LTR's here. Not ONs or FBs. With those, do as you feel.

If you're going into a long term relationship ready to read between the lines, then I'll assume that you didn't have the confidence in yourself to be in a LONG TERM relationship to begin with.

I wonder how many quality women did guys lose out on a 'hunch'?

Maybe you don't care...because you've banged plenty of women to get over it. Maybe because you never had one-itis and that your own EGO TOWER would not let you guys take risks in a relationship.

***EGO TOWER in reference to Oxide's post on "The Fall of the Don Juan" if you guys haven't already read it:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61599&highlight=tower

Guys....do what you want....play women on hunches and strategies with snares and pitfalls....treat your relationships like a hand of texas hold'em....

Believe in your way and agree with each other. Give each other social proofing. I understand where your point of views are comming from. But, I personally wouldn't go into a LTR with a QUALITY woman without giving her benefit of the doubt. What risk does it run me? So she didn't call me? Big whoop!

If she is quality..she'll tell me the truth if the relationship is stale and on the rocks...when you guys get the respect of your woman...you don't need to question. If she's a mature woman (the only type you should be in a LTR with) she'll tell you without you having to read between the lines. And yes, IL drops first before being cheated with. But, low IL doesn't mean she will cheat. If you have commanded the respect of your woman, you don't have to be paranoid, cut losses, or read between the lines to find out...she'll tell you.

Also...have enough confidence in you career, life, health, and financial status not to worry about a woman cheating on you. I never have reason to 'jump ship' and cut my loses. In my mind, I will never lose. It will always be HER loss.

Latino man has a good list on qualities of a 'respectful' woman...started by STR8UP called "girlfriends gone wild"

Its a good read.

 

[MacAvoy]

update: idle hands = devils tools

I'll start off by saying I've enjoyed the banter back and forth on both sides.

Well I decided to take the bull by the proverbial horns, call her up and invite myself over. When she answered she apologized for not calling back as she fell asleep. I did some reading which really put me back on track mentally, got me on the right mindset. Realized that I can't allow myself to slack, need to keep on top of that sh1t, keep my mind sharp, focussed and positive.

When I got over there, everything was normal, nothing weird / different. So I decided that I'm not going to bring up the not calling me thing. Asked about her weekend at work, was first time she worked all 3 days on the weekend in a couple months, which likely lead to her not callin as she was working the late shift 2-10.

I asked about her father, said he wasn't doing well again because they switched his meds, we didn't really get into it too much. I basically caught up with her to see if there was anything bothering/stressing her. When she didn't divulge anything, I didn't bother with broaching about her being distant.

She's just reclusive with her emotions to a degree. She's never been in a LTR before (other than high school) so she's isn't out-wardly emotional. I'm confident that she isn't cheating and always have been. Its not a priority in her life, she is focussed on school, rarely goes out with her friends.

Its just a constant power struggle with us. She's use to being spoiled and getting whatever she wants. I'm the same way but alot more open to compromise as I've got considerable more experience in relationships.

So we had a good visit, then I brought her to the bedroom earlier than I normally do. I find if I'm tired, I'm more interested in merely getting off than making it enjoyable for both parties. I know that I've been slacking in this department so I made a conscious effort to combat this early on.

So I focussed on her and showed her a good time. Overall I think that will help boost her IL somewhat. I've just got to continue on the road I've been on. My biggest problem is me & my brain, constantly overanalyzing everything. Part of the problem is I allowed it to go on too long. By not seeing her for over a week, I created a 'missing her' element in my brain, which lead to the drama in my brain.

I use to see her about 3 times a week. I think I'm going to keep it to around 2 now. 1 isn't quite enough and 3 causes me to get too sappy, need to spend time away from her with my social circle.

Part of my problem is that when I was in my early 20's I like older women and they trained me to be in touch with my emotions and be very out-ward with them. As a result, I've come to expect that to be the norm when in reality many people aren't as conscious / outspoken as their feelings as I am.

All in all, there are some other stressors on my end that have caused me to doubt the situation. However I know the key is to build as much of a life here away from her in order to live life to the fullest. I've come along way since I've been here and the hard part for me is LONG term commitment, I'm real good at medium but suck at long.

ps . anyone know why 'out-war' as in 'out-ward' is blocked aka comes out as ******d when typed without hyphen?

 

[disillusionist]

this site is hilarious. the TS/OP says that 'I made a choice to not call her, let her call me. I also decided to make myself less available' and then complains that the chick is playing games. imagine that! He even notes that 'she seems to have taken a play from the same page' but he still sees himself as the victim. lol

i realize that evenhandedness isnt really in vogue on this site but you'd think that the EXACT same actions would be evaluated in the same way, regardless of male or female, rather than condemned on the one side and promoted as a necessary technique (being less available) on the other.

Oh, i forgot. on this site, what we do is techniques, what they do is games.

 

[STR8UP]

So we had a good visit, then I brought her to the bedroom earlier than I normally do. I find if I'm tired, I'm more interested in merely getting off than making it enjoyable for both parties. I know that I've been slacking in this department so I made a conscious effort to combat this early on.

So I focussed on her and showed her a good time. Overall I think that will help boost her IL somewhat.

I really, really hate to say this, but this is yet another sign that things are on a slippery downhill slope.

In the past I have caught myself wondering what was going on in a relationship caused by a change in the behavior of my partner. Inevitably this caused me to become more passionate in the sex department.

I think this happens for several reasons, including but not necessarily limited to:

- Subconsciously knowing that your partner might be cheating on you or about to cheat on you. When this happens your cave man brain goes into a sexual overload trying to compete sexually with a real or imaginary opponent.
- Your desire to assert your manhood because you feel that she no longer finds you attractive.

Your subconscious mind always knows more than your conscious mind will allow you to believe. And it's your subconscious mind that drives these raw impulses to try to compensate for something.

You can take other people's advice and "not be so paranoid" or you can pay VERY close attention to what your gut is telling you and act accordingly. Ultimately YOU are the only one who can tell what's going on here.

 

[MacAvoy]

I really, really hate to say this, but this is yet another sign that things are on a slippery downhill slope.

In the past I have caught myself wondering what was going on in a relationship caused by a change in the behavior of my partner. Inevitably this caused me to become more passionate in the sex department.

I think this happens for several reasons, including but not necessarily limited to:

- Subconsciously knowing that your partner might be cheating on you or about to cheat on you. When this happens your cave man brain goes into a sexual overload trying to compete sexually with a real or imaginary opponent.
- Your desire to assert your manhood because you feel that she no longer finds you attractive.

Your subconscious mind always knows more than your conscious mind will allow you to believe. And it's your subconscious mind that drives these raw impulses to try to compensate for something.

You can take other people's advice and "not be so paranoid" or you can pay VERY close attention to what your gut is telling you and act accordingly. Ultimately YOU are the only one who can tell what's going on here.

I can't type when I'm drunk

 

[Latinoman]

I agree that my game has gotten soft since I moved here. Its partially because I'm out of my element, playing by different rules. However I chose this path because I knew I can do it and that was part of the challenge for me. Its taken me some time but I've slowly built a social circle away from her.

This is similar to the Bing guy that became dependant of the chick that drove HER car to the bar and he had no choice but to depend on her (she left with another guy and Bing ended up driving her car home).

You moved there and became dependant on her. That was your mistake.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

I really, really hate to say this, but this is yet another sign that things are on a slippery downhill slope.

In the past I have caught myself wondering what was going on in a relationship caused by a change in the behavior of my partner. Inevitably this caused me to become more passionate in the sex department.

I think this happens for several reasons, including but not necessarily limited to:

- Subconsciously knowing that your partner might be cheating on you or about to cheat on you. When this happens your cave man brain goes into a sexual overload trying to compete sexually with a real or imaginary opponent.
- Your desire to assert your manhood because you feel that she no longer finds you attractive.

Your subconscious mind always knows more than your conscious mind will allow you to believe. And it's your subconscious mind that drives these raw impulses to try to compensate for something.

You can take other people's advice and "not be so paranoid" or you can pay VERY close attention to what your gut is telling you and act accordingly. Ultimately YOU are the only one who can tell what's going on here.

Subconscious mind? Raw impulses? Cave man brain?!

hahahaha....STR8UP, you're pretty hilarius bro.

I'm not going to go all Fruedian on the advice I give to you MacAvoy. I like to keep sh*t simple, with simple thought processes and simple results because if the above statement STR8UP doesn't sound like over analyzing a situation...I don't know what is.

Over-analyzing will lead to paranoia. You wouldn't tell a baseball player five million and one ways he can throw a fast ball and the five million ways it could go wrong when he throws it.

Rather, you'd instill some confidence. THROW THE DAMN BALL...HARD..and FAST. And that's my simple solution.

F*ck all this Sigmund Fruedian mumbo jumbo about caveman thought processes. Don't you all think we've evoled?

Ask your chick wtf is up and get a straight up simple answer. Stop over analyzing and letting people get you paranoid. WOMEN are the one's that over analyze this type of sh*t...Like I've said 100 million times. MEN grab their F*CKING balls and take action. Man up!

 

[STR8UP]

Subconscious mind? Raw impulses? Cave man brain?!

hahahaha....STR8UP, you're pretty hilarius bro.

I'm not going to go all Fruedian on the advice I give to you MacAvoy. I like to keep sh*t simple, with simple thought processes and simple results because if the above statement STR8UP doesn't sound like over analyzing a situation...I don't know what is.

I don't really know his situation firsthand. But I do know that if you are a normal, healthy, well adjusted man and you start to question the status of your relationship, it's time to open your eyes up REAL wide. It's too easy to rationalize irrational behavior to fit your ideal. Not gonna fall into that trap again, thank you.

Over-analyzing will lead to paranoia. You wouldn't tell a baseball player five million and one ways he can throw a fast ball and the five million ways it could go wrong when he throws it.

Rather, you'd instill some confidence. THROW THE DAMN BALL...HARD..and FAST. And that's my simple solution.

So a little confidence will win your woman back when she has one foot out the door?

You are comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not saying she cheating, but if I were him I would keep my eyes wide open and if I saw one more sign of her interest level dropping I would head for the hills.

F*ck all this Sigmund Fruedian mumbo jumbo about caveman thought processes. Don't you all think we've evoled?

Not really.

Ask your chick wtf is up and get a straight up simple answer.

Yea, cause chicks are ALL ABOUT being straight up and simple.

You- "Hey baby, it seems like you have been a little distant lately, what's up with that?"

Her- (Insert anything but the truth)

You've got to be kidding, right?

 

[Phyzzle]

Chicks are ALL ABOUT being straight up and simple.

You- "Hey baby, it seems like you have been a little distant lately, what's up with that?"

Her- "You've lowered my interest level, probably by subtly suggesting that other women don't want you. Now, I find myself paying more attention to other guys, and everything I found cute about you before is now annoying."

Yeah, I don't think any woman is going to say that.

Hynotiq, you're right about the guys on this board automatically saying "she's banging another dude" when there's no evidence. Most of the time, it's a falling interest level, and it has to fall a lot before she's with another guy.

But signs of falling interest must NOT be ignored. The relationship that bought me back to this board last summer was another case of a girl who was "tired, stressed by exams, working full time, having family problems, and when all these things go away, I'll stop flaking on our plans." Whatever. I dropped her before she could grab the next branch - and she didn't seem too upset about it.

If you see signs of falling interest two dates in a row, dump her. Ironically, this may be the only chance you have to turn things around.

 

[STR8UP]

But signs of falling interest must NOT be ignored. The relationship that bought me back to this board last summer was another case of a girl who was "tired, stressed by exams, working full time, having family problems, and when all these things go away, I'll stop flaking on our plans." Whatever. I dropped her before she could grab the next branch - and she didn't seem too upset about it.

If you see signs of falling interest two dates in a row, dump her. Ironically, this may be the only chance you have to turn things around.

BINGO!

A woman who is into you, and I mean TRULY into you will go without food, sleep, whatever just to bask in your presence. Everything chills to a point when you have been together for awhile but when you start getting excuses you will know it and it time to cut that sh!t before it takes any more out of you.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Troops,



I'm with PHYZZLE and STR8UP on this one.

To invest any more of your heart into someone whose actions seem to indicate that they are NOT feeling the same towards YOU is tantamount to enslaving yourself to them EMOTIONALLY.

And if you are unfortunate enough to put yourself in this situation, your happiness AND your sadness are at the total whim of that other person. The price of emotional freedom IS eternal vigilance-----paying close attention to the level of interest and the lines of respect that exists beween two people in a relationship.

And I realize we're NOT talking about anything this extreme in THIS case, but I feel a need to mention this fact as well:

The reason MANY men become either SUICIDAL or HOMICIDAL when a relationship ends is because they have STOPPED paying attention. They have ceased paying attention to the fluctuations in the womans interest level, and to her crossing of the lines of respect within the relationship.

These men begin lying to themselves and rationalizing themselves deeper and deeper into emotional bondage to another person-----REFUSING to acknowledge that they are NOW... SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY!

These men have traded their NIGHTVISION GOGGLES for BLINDERS. So when the woman's interest level in them FINALLY drops to the point where she leaves----to him, it's ALL OF SUDDEN. And his emotions go haywire.

The impact that this emotional timebomb leaves is SO devastating that it blows his logic and reason to smithereens-----leaving behind a hollow shell of a human being where A MAN once stood.

Men like this have made the women their LIVES, and now that the relationship is over, to HIM, unfortunately...LIFE is over...either HIS, or HERS.

So keep your eyes OPEN, soldiers.

Forwarned IS fore-ARMED.

Better to be prepared to fight, to defend yourself, or to RETREAT than to be wiped off the face of the Romantic Landscape because you loved the BLISS of ignorance MORE than you wanted to shoulder the BURDEN of knowledge.



Peace...one day.

 

[STR8UP]

The reason MANY men become either SUICIDAL or HOMICIDAL when a relationship ends is because they have STOPPED paying attention. They have ceased paying attention to the fluctuations in the womans interest level, and to her crossing of the lines of respect within the relationship.

These men begin lying to themselves and rationalizing themselves deeper and deeper into emotional bondage to another person-----REFUSING to acknowledge that they are NOW... SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY!

These men have traded their NIGHTVISION GOGGLES for BLINDERS. So when the woman's interest level in them FINALLY drops to the point where she leaves----to him, it's ALL OF SUDDEN. And his emotions go haywire.

I'm not proud of the fact but I have been guilty of this more than once in my younger days.

Falling interest level is SOOOOO easy to spot when your eyes are open to it and you are willing to accept the fact that it can (and usually eventually will) happen to you. You also have to be willing to face the music and cut your losses before your losses cut YOU.

When you see falling interest you should NEVER give the chick the benefit of the doubt. The only reason I say this is because WHEN IT HAPPENS YOU WILL KNOW. If a woman has a valid reason for her change in behavior YOU WILL KNOW. Your gut won't be questioning it, and you won't be asking others what you should do.

 

[Tazman]

I agree with the guys who claim falling interest. I've witnessed this many times and even experienced it. Whenever there is interest you WILL see "effort". Of course this won't apply all the time, people do go through changes (physically, emotionally, etc.). One thing that will always be a good indicator, however, will be the amount of effort your partner puts into making you feel cared for. When that starts to decline........your gut pretty much tells you. You have to decide whether or not you want to listen or hang around until you get some overt communication, the latter being the most painful. I still maintain that non-verbal communication is the most dependable information when it comes to male/female relationships.

 

[danny62]

Wow! Joekerrs idea had me laughing out loud- specifically the "ko punch to the head" Sounds like a damn good idea although I believe there is also risk involved. Kind of like a Hail Mary pass into the endzone. You could score a touchdown or have the ball picked off and run all the way back the other way. Being in a similar type of situation myself, I've decided to do this. I figure what the hell: I believe my relationship is sh*tcanned, so I may as well have a little bit of fun before the ship goes down.