What exactlu happed in 2008?

Who Dares Win

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I googled "prevalence of loneliness by country" and got this, which says that loneliness is lower in northern Europe than in southern and eastern Europe (ctrl+f "sweden" and you'll get to the part saying that). However elderly people are still overrepresented in loneliness compared to the general population from what I googled in swedish. Sweden does have a very high rate of singles and single households. But the birth rate in countries like Spain and Ukraine, even Germany is actually significantly lower than here.

I have no idea if this is actually the case but I suspect that the more women can be provided for by society, the more free men become from having to be providers. If you can get daycare, parental leave, healthcare and various family subsidies, it frees the man from having to be a worker drone to pay for those things. The only things I don't like about it are the taxes on income and consumption instead of taxes on capital gains and wealth (stopgap solution), and there should be a contract you can sign with a woman saying you don't owe child support if she refuses to abort which I think would be fairer on both men and children.

lol I already feel like I hardly give a fvck anymore and I'm 26. I'm still open to meeting pleasant women who make my d!ck hard, but there is no way I will waste my life on OLD, antisocial media, clubs or cold approaching for the foreseeable future. Even if it can pay off sometimes, the cost benefit of energy and enjoyment is not worth it. If I meet women it's going to be by warm proximity. The funny thing is when you feel it in your body that you just don't care anymore, shame of you being or not being this or that doesn't work. I no longer give a single sh!t if I'm not internet alpha because I don't like cold approaching, or whatever.

Anyway I've gone on long enough, I'm more interested in your thoughts on this because you have more experience than me, being in your 30s. Although you kinda already explained your perspective in another thread. I will finalize my view by saying that I think just like the economy, the dating market will keep changing and reach a polarized state rather than a cathartic stage. It won't mean hell on earth for everyone in the dating market, but there will be more male losers as they are just not wanted or needed.
Now that I recall that fact about loneliness for elders in Sweden came in a documentary on discovery channel, it all started with a surgeon who left the country to move to africa, he said that in there people cared about their families and old people was never abandoned.

Then the docs moved back to Sweden where it said that many oldies live alone and die alone, they are found usually when the neightbours call the police either cause they no longer see them or cause of the smell, not sure how frequent is this but I guess it happens only among ethnic swedes.

Regarding the future, I agree with your vision, I see polarization happening and most all happening to a much faster rate than before.

I can tell for sure that compared to only 10 years ago sexual opportunities for the average man are decreased while top guys are having it easier and easiers by the day due to technology and a general cultural shift.

I'm glad that I hit my 20s between mid 00s and mid 10s, honestly I would have probably be one of those struggling if I had to be 20 right now.

Average quality of women is decreasing while their demands are growing and the sexual market allows for that, many countries also face gender imbalances due to immigration and emigration; many fvck buddies I had in eastern Europe now live in western Europe (and its usually more girls that guys to leave those countries) while at the same time mass migration from africa and middle east is increasing the number of young males in western europe.

The biggest issue in my opinion is that the average woman in her 20s would rather share a top guy with other 5 girls rather than have a guy her league only for herself, this habits persists till late 20s and early 30s.

In my mid 30s now I have it easier with women my age but honestly Im not that interested in them, I would also share a young fvck buddy with other 5 guys than have a woman my age only for myself. :D

At some point commitment becomes valuable, it makes the guy willing to provide it more interesting to a woman while a woman demanding committment becomes less interesting for a man.

It means the rise of young men raised by single mom's has turned many boys into just another girl in a young man's body.

I'm very certain that's not attractive to girls or women.
Being raised from a single mom and female teachers is surely a big problem for young guys on their way to manhood, I still think most depends on genetic however, being short in 2019 is the kiss of death with women for example.
 
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AttackFormation

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Now that I recall that fact about loneliness for elders in Sweden came in a documentary on discovery channel, it all started with a surgeon who left the country to move to africa, he said that in there people cared about their families and old people was never abandoned.

Then the docs moved back to Sweden where it said that many oldies live alone and die alone, they are found usually when the neightbours call the police either cause they no longer see them or cause of the smell, not sure how frequent is this but I guess it happens only among ethnic swedes.

Regarding the future, I agree with your vision, I see polarization happening and most all happening to a much faster rate than before.

I can tell for sure that compared to only 10 years ago sexual opportunities for the average man are decreased while top guys are having it easier and easiers by the day due to technology and a general cultural shift.

I'm glad that I hit my 20s between mid 00s and mid 10s, honestly I would have probably be one of those struggling if I had to be 20 right now.

Average quality of women is decreasing while their demands are growing and the sexual market allows for that, many countries also face gender imbalances due to immigration and emigration; many fvck buddies I had in eastern Europe now live in western Europe (and its usually more girls that guys to leave those countries) while at the same time mass migration from africa and middle east is increasing the number of young males in western europe.

The biggest issue in my opinion is that the average woman in her 20s would rather share a top guy with other 5 girls rather than have a guy her league only for herself, this habits persists till late 20s and early 30s.

In my mid 30s now I have it easier with women my age but honestly Im not that interested in them, I would also share a young fvck buddy with other 5 guys than have a woman my age only for myself. :D

At some point commitment becomes valuable, it makes the guy willing to provide it more interesting to a woman while a woman demanding committment becomes less interesting for a man.


Being raised from a single mom and female teachers is surely a big problem for young guys on their way to manhood, I still think most depends on genetic however, being short in 2019 is the kiss of death with women for example.
Speaking of commitment, how can you tell if a woman wants commitment because she likes you first, or because she wants something from you but doesn't care about you in particular? The thing is my type is not common and I don't like condoms either, so at some point I will probably have to commit to get good steady sex. But I refuse to be a provider, I want her to compartmentalize me as a lover. I don't want to be the "way out" for some girl's bad choices or her "nice guy" after her fun time is over.
 
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Poonani Maker

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Now that I recall that fact about loneliness for elders in Sweden came in a documentary on discovery channel, it all started with a surgeon who left the country to move to africa, he said that in there people cared about their families and old people was never abandoned.

Then the docs moved back to Sweden where it said that many oldies live alone and die alone, they are found usually when the neightbours call the police either cause they no longer see them or cause of the smell, not sure how frequent is this but I guess it happens only among ethnic swedes.

Regarding the future, I agree with your vision, I see polarization happening and most all happening to a much faster rate than before.

I can tell for sure that compared to only 10 years ago sexual opportunities for the average man are decreased while top guys are having it easier and easiers by the day due to technology and a general cultural shift.

I'm glad that I hit my 20s between mid 00s and mid 10s, honestly I would have probably be one of those struggling if I had to be 20 right now.

Average quality of women is decreasing while their demands are growing and the sexual market allows for that, many countries also face gender imbalances due to immigration and emigration; many fvck buddies I had in eastern Europe now live in western Europe (and its usually more girls that guys to leave those countries) while at the same time mass migration from africa and middle east is increasing the number of young males in western europe.

The biggest issue in my opinion is that the average woman in her 20s would rather share a top guy with other 5 girls rather than have a guy her league only for herself, this habits persists till late 20s and early 30s.

In my mid 30s now I have it easier with women my age but honestly Im not that interested in them, I would also share a young fvck buddy with other 5 guys than have a woman my age only for myself. :D

At some point commitment becomes valuable, it makes the guy willing to provide it more interesting to a woman while a woman demanding committment becomes less interesting for a man.


Being raised from a single mom and female teachers is surely a big problem for young guys on their way to manhood, I still think most depends on genetic however, being short in 2019 is the kiss of death with women for example.
Yep I know a 7 or 8 in the face but 6 or 7 in the body (chubby a little) who Must be getting a $3000 a month apartment footed by a suga daddy here soon - I wonder how long that’ll last and how sudden her looks may fade she’s still mid20s though educated attending uni but Dumb swinging way above her weight she disrespects me now with the lols and emoticons now used to never do that
 

Who Dares Win

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Speaking of commitment, how can you tell if a woman wants commitment because she likes you first, or because she wants something from you but doesn't care about you in particular? The thing is my type is not common and I don't like condoms either, so at some point I will probably have to commit to get good steady sex. But I refuse to be a provider, I want her to compartmentalize me as a lover, and I don't want to be the "way out" for some girl's bad choices or her "nice guy" after her fun time is over.
Women at some point turn into cyborg when it comes of securing their future, no longer the great passion and luxury they felt toward their high school chads, at some point they evaluate men not any different that how men evaluate cars.

Only when they are totally sure about their asses being covered they may start again to feel luxury or passion toward someone (the yoga teacher, the mma fighter but surely not the nice sensitive white collar husband who slave around for them).

Anyway I cant really help you with your question, all I see in women my age is desperation and a desperate need to secure their future; think of high school guys in a rush to have sex before school is over while the clock is ticking.

I think that a man that wants an happy ending needs to close the deal himself before his 30s with a girl in her early 20s, too many problems after that point.

I can clearly see the women coming after me cause of my life style and wealth compared to those few years ago coming after me cause of my looks, its a day and night difference that your gut will point you once you'll be older, all you have to do is accept it.
 
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Dash Riprock

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My Theory:

In 2008, the average age of a millennial was 20-21, about the time they started to reach sexual maturity.

Two major effects:

1- The men coming out of Generation Y were largely overly sensitive, sheltered, docile, and effeminate. Let's call it 80%. The few that were raised to be "men" (20%) and exhibited masculine qualities became very attractive to females (it's in their DNA, they can't help but be attracted to this type of man), hence the divide that started to emerge in the few men who were ****ing most of the women.

2- About this time, porn video sites like PornHub, XHamster, etc., started to really proliferate as companies greatly improved online streaming video services. By this time, almost everyone also had high speed internet, and mobile phones, so now porn is literally everywhere in high quality.

Many millennial men "dropped out" of the pursuit of women or got laid VERY infrequently, relying more on internet porn and/or just going incel due to #1 and #2 above.
 

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Being raised from a single mom and female teachers is surely a big problem for young guys on their way to manhood, I still think most depends on genetic however, being short in 2019 is the kiss of death with women for example.

Most women there are basically 5'4" to 5'6".

If a man is taller then that, they're good to go.

But if u r programmed since young by ur own single mommy who infused in you with "how she wishes to be treated by men" then that boy will in all likelihood be Mr. Cuckold or Mr. Incel.

How is it that women think they can train their sons to be men when they're never even been a man?
 

RickTheToad

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Interesting chart. But it's impossible to get the whole picture without seeing a similar chart for females the same age.

I don't think I've heard of the six 6's, but maybe they should put a six pack in there. But then it would be the seven 6's.
Very true on the abs. Lol
 

Trump

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At some point commitment becomes valuable, it makes the guy willing to provide it more interesting to a woman while a woman demanding committment becomes less interesting for a man.
Can you explain this?

How does a guy willing to give up all his younger sexual options to be with one woman, who is losing her looks by the day, make him more interesting to said woman?
 
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zekko

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Very true on the abs. Lol.
Ever see any of those leaked videos of celebrity women having sex? I swear it looks like the same guy is banging them all. Some dude with a six pack, very lean but a little more muscular than an Abercrombie model, dark hair, with the five o'clock shadow beard. It's like they order him from some fantasy sex android supply house.
 

RickTheToad

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Ever see any of those leaked videos of celebrity women having sex? I swear it looks like the same guy is banging them all. Some dude with a six pack, very lean but a little more muscular than an Abercrombie model, dark hair, with the five o'clock shadow beard. It's like they order him from some fantasy sex android supply house.
I think Vanilla Ice had a good go around in the 90's with Madonna's sexcapades. It might of been Brian Austin Greene (the 90210 dude. Who would had thought that dude would end up with Megan Fox. Good for him.)
 

RickTheToad

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Can you explain this?

How does a guy willing to give up all his younger sexual options to be with one woman, who is losing her looks by the day, make him more interesting to said woman?
He's beaten down and just waves the white flag. I see dudes do this all the time. A co-worker is getting married in a few months. The wedding is driving him crazy. He looks beaten down and exhausted. I give it 5 years max.
 

Medina

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This generation today is boring and depressed

While their parents time (the 1990's) were not

The same thing happened after the 60's and the swinging 20's

It's like a hangover period

The next Gen will be wilder unlike their PC Millennial parents

The new always rebels against the old
 
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Who Dares Win

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Can you explain this?

How does a guy willing to give up all his younger sexual options to be with one woman, who is losing her looks by the day, make him more interesting to said woman?
Commitment is an asset for a woman while it doesnt make the guy any hotter it makes him more valuable compared to a same LMS guy unwilling to, but it works only on women looking for relationships.

At some point women needs assurance once their value is dropping, they would rather give the few left to one who they believe will stick around.

I see it everyday, all my former classmates chasing bad boys and party animals in their 20s then slowly toward their mid20s going after less goodlooking guys that want to spend time with them in day time too, trips togheter, family gatherings and so on.

In their early 20s it becomes obvious, from social circles to night out, they pay less and less attention to hot guys but instead focus on decent looking guys that are family types, those guys who know are not going to cheat or fvck around.

They still ride the carousel even at that moment but the guy has to be really hot and high status if its gonna be a few days thing only while on the other side they become more and more tolerant toward average looking guys if they are the "serious type" they can rely on for LTR.

Something similar happens to us to, we want the party slvt for when we are young and top energy but we look for a serious girl when we want to have a family, sometime we pick the less goodlooking but more stable girl over a hottie who fvcks around the moment we turn our head.
 

rando5495

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This generation today is boring and depressed

While their parents time (the 1990's) were not

The same thing happened after the 60's and the swinging 20's

It's like a hangover period

The next Gen will be wilder unlike their PC Millennial parents

The new always rebels against the old
Someone I know irl has this same theory. And although I'm unsure whether or not I agree with it, it's really weird to see it expressed.

I assume that it's something to do with things like the rise in single-mummery, the improvement of entertainment such as videogames and other media, internet porn as another said, the value of women going up whilst men's go down due to feminism, etc.

To contrast when I was turning 18: me and most my friends came from 2 parent households that were together at least for the vast majority of our upbringing, we had playstations which were fun at the time and culturally significant but not exactly ""addictive"", had very little access to porn, and feminism was still seen as something that lesbians did.
 
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RangerMIke

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In 2008 we had the fiscal meltdown. Everyone adopted a more conservative approach to their lives started taking better care of their most important assets. Women intrinsically know that their most valuable asset is themselves. Just like we all stopped spending like idiots, women started being careful with their bodies... and focused their 'resources' to get a good return on investment. Things really haven't changed that much since 2008. In addition, men have to be more focused on work, since it's harder to make a living in the US now, and are not spending as much time chasing tail. In 2008 we had a significant paradigm shift in attitude as it relates to resources.
 

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Here's an interesting (if long) article that also talks about the rise in involuntary celibacy among men. According to it, the main reason for it is because of the decline of marriage. It also says that with the increased importance of college education, more people are delaying marriage, which translates to fewer men having sex.

It also claims that the top 20% of men are having 50-60% of the sex, not 80% of the sex like they say here. Actually, when I first started reading SoSuave, it was more commonly claimed that the top 10% of guys were having 90% of the sex. I thought that was a little too exaggerated, and found the 20/80 number easier to believe.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/number-3-in-2018-male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-not-for-the-reasons-incels-claim

I think Vanilla Ice had a good go around in the 90's with Madonna's sexcapades. It might of been Brian Austin Greene (the 90210 dude. Who would had thought that dude would end up with Megan Fox. Good for him.)
I didn't mean it was literally the same guy banging all those celebrities. I meant that they seemed to have the same physical type that they all go for. Certainly lends credence to the "hit the gym/lower your bodyfat" advice.
 
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