What does Marriage offer to a man today???

[Vulpine]

Mine is definitely rewarding…

Anzanon, given your situation, with YOUR marriage, all your opinions on the subject are null and ƒucking void.

Seriously, you offering any imput on "why marriage is good" is laughable.

Sit down, shut up, face the front.

Many of us know how "good" your "marriage" is.

:kick:

There aren't many gurarantees in life, but I don't think the solution is to not live and/or not take chances.

Oh, the sick irony.

 

[azanon]

I see no flaws in the analogy.

Here they come! Anyone with any sense knows that in todays working world, it is expected in almost all cases that you will go through several jobs as you advance in skills, capabilities and training. One gets a job often knowing full well that they, themselves, will willfully leave it soon. Marriages don't work that way, and if that's the way you think going into it, you have no business marrying in the first place.

OK that's just one point, but why continue. That one killed your analogy.

You say that your marriage is good, and I have no doubt. But I'm 100% certain the reason that your marriage is good is because you've trained your wife. You said it yourself. Many times. You've conditioned her.

And what is conditioning? Conditioning is drawing an event that the other can expect will occur if a certain cause is enacted.

You're not fully committed to your wife. You've conditioned her.

Marriage is not the reason your relationship is going well. The reason it is going so well is because you have offered her a lot under but certain conditions.

I did marry her when she was only 19, so yeah I did "condition" her to some extent since she was still teachable at that age. Perhaps you bring up a good point; why it isnt such a good idea to marry an older one. But even had I married an older woman, you can still evaluate her habits before signing the dotted line. Pick one with traits you would have instilled in her yourself.

Ironically, the very premise of that marriage contract you signed works against the principles of why it is going so well.

Now what if your conditioning should fail one day? What are you going to do? Well, you're going to be flat out of luck since you've committed half your time (work is time) to her for life.

Think of yourself and your wife as a television program. Both of your ratings could crash at any time. You should prepare yourself for these unexpected events.

My wife is very emotionally balanced, by my estimation, and I really think the likelihood of her just waking up someday with a new life agenda (which includes divorcing me) is remote at best.

Marriage can have societal benefits. I agree with you on this. It's a status symbol. It's unfortunate though that it's a status symbol because a lot of people end up getting divorced and have to spend years of their lives to get them back to where they were before. Don't be so quick to speak for others.

What am I speaking for others on?

Its more than just a status symbol; if you have a good one, you know you have something. Its more than a feeling.

 

[azanon]

Anzanon, given your situation, with YOUR marriage, all your opinions on the subject are null and ƒucking void.

Seriously, you offering any imput on "why marriage is good" is laughable.

Sit down, shut up, face the front.

Many of us know how "good" your "marriage" is.

:kick:

I found your comments just downright disrespectful. They're also disappointing too, considering the generally respectful attitude you normally convey. What a letdown, Vulpine.

 

[azanon]

Jesus, sorry to rain on everyone's pity party! By all means, resume your marriage bashing. I realize bitterness loves company, and on that point, I'll never be invited.

 

[Vulpine]

I found your comments just downright disrespectful. They're also disappointing too, considering the generally respectful attitude you normally convey. What a letdown, Vulpine.

People generally aren't very happy when they get slapped in the face, regardless of how much they needed their face slapped.

You're welcome nonetheless.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Soooooooo.......

What's that crazy Lindsay Lohan up to today????

 

[azanon]

People generally aren't very happy when they get slapped in the face, regardless of how much they needed their face slapped.

Your welcome nonetheless.

Despence with the vagueness, will you. When did I slap your face; did i do so indirectly? If you're trying to stick up for someone else, let them defend their own position. If i'm overly harsh, then i'm sorry. Diplomacy is not a strong suit of mine.

I genuinely am interested in the specific nerve i struck with you though. I think highly of your posts, so I'd really like to know.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Anzanon, given your situation, with YOUR marriage, all your opinions on the subject are null and ƒucking void.

Seriously, you offering any imput on "why marriage is good" is laughable.

Sit down, shut up, face the front.

Many of us know how "good" your "marriage" is.

I, personally, think Azanon's (and RT's) opinions on marriage are the ones we should be listening to. Why? because, they, not us, are the one's that have successful marriages. They succeeded at it!! That's fantastic, keep up the good advise guys.

I've never been married, and can say that it's very easy to get a negative attitude towards marriage because we constantly hear how screwed over men get.

Marriage, as with anything in life, is a gamble. Our best bet is gaining knowledge. Gaining knowledge on the GOOD and bad...not just the bad.

Keep up the good posts Azanon!

 

[Vulpine]

Oh no, I'm good. I have absolutely no ill feelings toward you whatsoever.

I'm actually sticking up for you.

Take it to PM.

 

[azanon]

Oh no, I'm good. I have absolutely no ill feelings toward you whatsoever.

I'm actually sticking up for you.

Take it to PM.

Ok will do.

.....

To any extent i was rude to anyone in this thread, I apologize. I sometimes get overly spirited in my posts, and its something I have to constantly work on.

Thanks for the nice words Mr. Positive.

 

[blueguy]

All right. I hate getting into this since it takes up so much time, but I have to reply because it seems the issues were dodged...

Anyone with any sense knows that in todays working world, it is expected in almost all cases that you will go through several jobs as you advance in skills, capabilities and training. One gets a job often knowing full well that they, themselves, will willfully leave it soon. Marriages don't work that way, and if that's the way you think going into it, you have no business marrying in the first place.

My analogy said company, not rank. You can gain rank in the company, but you're still working for the same company (good or bad). Because the company is the catalyst in the analogy, gaining rank is irrelevant to the analogy.

But you did prove another (although sidetracked) point. About commitment.

What if Bill Gates sold Microsoft to IBM for $10 million when it first became successful in its early days? Bill Gates would have regretted that decision for the rest of his life. This is likened to commitment. One can improve in rank and attract better later on if he plays his cards right.

I really think the likelihood of her just waking up someday with a new life agenda (which includes divorcing me) is remote at best.

I have two brothers. One of them married at 22, and he is having a great marriage. He is now 30. The other married at 22, got divorced, now because of alimony payments, etc. he couldn't afford, he had to file for bankruptcy. His credit score sucks. Now he can barely find a job and lives in a crappy apartment. His life is a mess.

After 10 or so years of marriage, your wife may not change that much. But what about those people who get married after dating for only a couple of years? One cannot predict the future. Trying to predict the next 50 years in one fell swoop based on a short amount of time is very unwise!!

By all means, resume your marriage bashing. I realize bitterness loves company

You're just perpetuating the myth that not being married means you're bitter! That means more people get married to avoid being bitter. LOL. Yes! This happens all the time! You also said that people who don't get married don't take risks! I'm taking about 6 vacations this year to countries all over the world... I don't know how you can classify that as bitter or not taking risks!

Do I plan on getting married? Only under the condition that I don't ruin my life like my second brother... and that means a prenup! But in all reality, the only thing marriage offers is the status symbol and a (false) sense of security for the wife.

 

[azanon]

All right. I hate getting into this since it takes up so much time, but I have to reply because it seems the issues were dodged...



My analogy said company, not rank. You can gain rank in the company, but you're still working for the same company (good or bad). Because the company is the catalyst in the analogy, gaining rank is irrelevant to the analogy.

But you did prove another (although sidetracked) point. About commitment.

What if Bill Gates sold Microsoft to IBM for $10 million when it first became successful in its early days? Bill Gates would have regretted that decision for the rest of his life. This is likened to commitment. One can improve in rank and attract better later on if he plays his cards right.

You're changing your analogy as you go. Go back and look at your initial paragraph on it. In fact, let me post the thesis sentence from that paragraph: "Would you do the same thing today in the job world? Would you sign a contract committing yourself for life to ONE company? " My answer to that is, no of course I wouldn't commit to one company because I never had any intention of just working for one company. That's the analogy I was rejecting. I'm not so interested in it now, if you're going to revise it.

I have two brothers. One of them married at 22, and he is having a great marriage. He is now 30. The other married at 22, got divorced, now because of alimony payments, etc. he couldn't afford, he had to file for bankruptcy. His credit score sucks. Now he can barely find a job and lives in a crappy apartment. His life is a mess.

After 10 or so years of marriage, your wife may not change that much. But what about those people who get married after dating for only a couple of years? One cannot predict the future. Trying to predict the next 50 years in one fell swoop based on a short amount of time is very unwise!!

I'm not saying it isn't a risk. Its a risk, but you can stack the odds in your favor. Go check out Desinova's initial paragraph on marriage and see his thoughts on it (in that other marriage thread that was bumped). In short, a true DJ should have the odds well in his favor.

You're just perpetuating the myth that not being married means you're bitter! That means more people get married to avoid being bitter. LOL.

No I wasn't trying to say that. I was saying that there are certain people, including married ones or previously married ones, that are bitter because of either a personal experience, or because they read negative garbage about marriage. A divorced person has a good chance of being bitter (about marriage). A single person that "can't find the right one" might be bitter over time. An unhappily married man might be bitter. And, as a result, some of these individuals make blanket statements about marriage being bad when maybe its them, and not marriage itself.

People generally don't like to blame themselves for much of anything. Its the American way to blame someone or something else on your problems.

Yes! This happens all the time! You also said that people who don't get married don't take risks! I'm taking about 6 vacations this year to countries all over the world... I don't know how you can classify that as bitter or not taking risks!

You just don't take the risk of marriage; I didn't say (or mean to say) you take no risks.

Do I plan on getting married? Only under the condition that I don't ruin my life like my second brother... and that means a prenup! But in all reality, the only thing marriage offers is the status symbol to the wife to make her feel good about her security and herself.

There are many legal and financial benefits. If someone were comprehensive about it, they could probably fill two single-spaced pages of actual marital benefits, not even counting the subjective ones.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Whole can of worms, dude. Here's one thread of haggling:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115398

I liked RedPill's post in the thread about penning taking a relationship to the next level (not marriage) but penning a LLM (Limited Liability Marriage) contract. Priceless!

 

[blueguy]

You're changing your analogy as you go. Go back and look at your initial paragraph on it. In fact, let me post the thesis sentence from that paragraph: "Would you do the same thing today in the job world? Would you sign a contract committing yourself for life to ONE company? " My answer to that is, no of course I wouldn't commit to one company because I never had any intention of just working for one company. That's the analogy I was rejecting. I'm not so interested in it now, if you're going to revise it.

I don't need to revise it. Because I haven't changed the analogy at all. You are picking at a straw man...

Back in the days, people did commit themselves to one company and still move up in rank. It was a security thing. Many people would stay with the same company their entire life. And a lot of those people were getting taken advantage of because the company would offer great incentives to the newer employees yet keep the older employees on the same pay scale, etc. People simply don't want to commit to a single company anymore because the less you commit, the more respect you gain from others. Meaning... others have to work harder for you and treat you better. Now companies are more fearful of good employees leaving and offer raises to those employees they feel are competitive. Resumes are more important than they've ever been. Go read Chapter 20 of 48 Laws of Power. There's no way you can disagree with this!

 

[bigjohnson]

IMO marriage can work out but the odds of it working with western women is minimal due to the fact that they are being programmed to act like penisless men. If a person wants to raise a family and pass on more as a legacy than their genetic information it's almost indispensible, but it's also a real minefield.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

You'll get varying opinions on marriage today, so there's definitive stance here, as evidenced by the back and forth nature of this thread.

Does it offer me anything? No. To be honest, it doesn't.

Anything and everything a woman does is ICING on my Cake of life. It's not like air, or water, or food, or nourishment. Meaning, if things are awry, I'm out. I hold that with all relationships. People need to appreciate and respect what they get. Unfortunately the presumption in vows is precisely what had been mentioned above, that you cater to someone else's wants/needs without regard for behavior.

There's plenty of good and bad images of marriages we can cite, but no one marriage is absolute. MOREOVER, who the fvck cites Judge Freaking Judy as a reliable sample size for MARRIAGE? That would be akin to picking Jerry Springer's guests out as a reliable sample size for America's average level of intelligence, looks or behavior? Come on dude...better analogies please.

I believe we have to dispense with the idea of "marriage gives you something," like it's a soda machine and put stuff in, or like a woman/man bought your marriage contract and is now entitled to services not rendered. Gimme a break. What is a marriage? It's a long-lasting, moment to moment promise. It's a trip. A journey. Often times a test. It isn't some romantic ending. It CAN be, but those people work at it. They work at themselves, or have already DONE so, so that they don't encounter the normal problems simpletons encounter on a daily basis. We're people, we're doomed to be screwy. But it's the people who sit back, observe themselves, and correct things, that push forward.

Women look around and see magazines, shows, books, friends and family, and want to "live that life," as if they can step onto a Soap Opera TV Show Set. Does that happen? Not normally. Most women are shielded from the stuff men go through in life, and that's because MOST women inevitably call upon men for the brunt of their needs anyways. Fix the car. Fix the house. Fix the plumbing. Balance check books. Often times workout programs. They did so while growing up, unless mom was an extreme household figure who was herself autonomous. It isn't bad...it's how things are. Daddy's little girl won't be "touched" by the world, or boys for that matter.

How does it behoove a man who promises to ONLY give his seed to one women?

How does it behoove a man who promises to ONLY provide for that one woman?

To stay with her through thick and thin, fat and skinny, emotional turmoil and complete jubilation?

There has to be something above and beyond what we see, b/c society and even religion, has put man in an automatically negative position.

If you get a real gem who appreciates you for you, and could give 2 shyts about marriage, then great. But even then, you don't know miss wonderful as well you think. Nobody does. People barely know themselves. And guys jump into marriage after a VERY short-time. You're alive 20 years, and you marry a girl in 1 year, that's 5% of your life. Yet, have you had friends for 2-3 years and just seen them FALL off the face of the earth or completely change? I have. One year doesn't show much about a person. Guys need longer track records. With consistency of character we can get an idea of how they are. And by talking through the most DIFFICULT issues can you find the depth and maturity of your SO. If you can't have the most f-ed up conversation with your SO, then what are they to you? You'd always be hiding a piece of you, which would only grow over time into a big piece.

Needless to say, I'm out of breath...from typing.

Marriage isn't bad or good...it's only good or bad IN RELATION TO THE PEOPLE BEING CONSIDERED.

I have a friend who got married, basically his first GF, and she's a total sweet heart. Librarian type. Supportive woman. Not materialistic in the least. They're perfect. On the other hand I just had a friend who married at 23 get divorced at 25. They didn't know each other very well, and their idea of life together was based on quicksand. She thought...college, date, marry, stop working, have kids, he provides. She was not giving sex out. She thought her WANTS would be sufficient to fulfill HIS WANTS. Not so.

I believe if it's not 2 lives aligning to make one better one, then get out and get rid of it.



A-Unit

 

[Colossus]

Marriage isn't bad or good...it's only good or bad IN RELATION TO THE PEOPLE BEING CONSIDERED.

I believe if it's not 2 lives aligning to make one better one, then get out and get rid of it.

A-Unit

Took the words right out of my mouth (...or fingers..)

Everyone here is trying to make marriage an absolute entity; i.e.-"marriage is good or bad, and here's why". Everbody has differing opinions on marriage for an infinite number of reasons. One man's opinion may be right for him, but be completely inapplicable to someone else. Correlation does not always mean causation. I wasnt even going to touch this thread because i could give 2 sh!ts about someone else's opinion of marriage, but A-unit's objectivity and refreshing ability to NOT to try and make a science out of sociology was inspiring.

 

[azanon]

To clarify my position: I wasn't saying (or implying) marriage was right for everyone, i was disagreeing with the OP suggestion that marriage has nothing to offer any man. Its a round-about way of saying what Colossus and A-Unit are saying; both of whom I fully agree with. Marriage isn't for everyone, but it is for some of us.

 

[STR8UP]

But you're right he and you may have the perfect marriages but unfortunately it's the exception not the rule.

That's the biggest problem.

It isn't that great marriages DON'T exist, it's that most of the time you never REALLY know what you are getting yourself into, possibly not even years into it.

The only advantage marriage has for men is a thin, and I mean THIN layer of protection for keeping your woman around (most women won't stick around indefinitely without the ring and the papers) and keeping her more faithful to you.

I mean, really, what is in it for a man? What do you get besides a little reassurance?

The vast, vast majority of men get married due to pressure from outside forrces. A friend of mine told me he was getting married to make his baby "legit". Great reason there, buddy.

Would I ever get married? I'll never say never. but I have to say that some woman is gonna have to come along and REALLY knock my socks off for me to consider it.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

....The only advantage marriage has for men is a thin, and I mean THIN layer of protection for keeping your woman around (most women won't stick around indefinitely without the ring and the papers) and keeping her more faithful to you.

:nervous: That's a scary reason to get married. I mean if that the only way that a guy may be able to keep a woman around, is it really the right woman?

....
I mean, really, what is in it for a man? What do you get besides a little reassurance?

I kinda felt that way in hopes that Michael Jordan would never retire, but alas that too came to pass...

....
The vast, vast majority of men get married due to pressure from outside forrces. A friend of mine told me he was getting married to make his baby "legit". Great reason there, buddy.

That was so old school. How often do you find people getting married nowadays to keep the kids from being bastards? It shouldn't be the only reason to get married but I give your bud some props for doing what he feels is the right thing to do. Does a couple really need to be married to be good parents?

....
Would I ever get married? I'll never say never. but I have to say that some woman is gonna have to come along and REALLY knock my socks off for me to consider it.

I'm in the same boat. The funny thing is that I'm damn near 100% sure that the woman that would knock my socks off enough for me to consider marriage would be a woman who wouldn't feel it would be necessary for us to get married in order to prove our commitment to one another. Does such a woman even exist? The search continues...