What do you guys think of this?

[TheHumanist]

This Article

I remember there was a thread about it a while back but it got only a few responses and I can't remember enough be able to search for it and bump it back up.

The article above made a large list of the weakness of DJs and PUAs, a few probably don't apply to DJ thinking but most do. A good way to see how to apply salt to advice given at least. I'm wondering if you agree or disagree on the points made.

 

[Obsidian]

Women are flaky and unreliable.
Women are emotional and illogical.
Women only live in the emotion of the moment, do what feels good at the time, and justify their actions to themselves after the fact.
Women are manipulative and use guys for free drinks and dinners.
Women are fickle and have short attention spans.
Women are self-centered and self-interested.
Women primarily go to clubs for attention and validation from men.
Women constantly test men, try to devalue them, and try to make them jump through hoops.
Women try to make men suck up to them and put them on a pedestal.
Women think their pussies are made of gold and sell them to the highest bidder.
Women don't know what they really want.
Women are confused and hypocritical. They'll profess to dislike whorish behavior then blow a guy in a bathroom that night.
Women are programmed to want to get knocked up by an Alpha Male then ensnare an unwitting Beta Male into raising the child for her.
Women will cheat on their partners coldly and unemotionally.
Women are slaves to how their friends and society sees them. They want to sleep around, but have to be discrete about it.
Society's expectations have given women all kinds of weird hang ups up about sex and hooking up. Their minds are full of strange rationalizations and justifications.
Women aren't happy for long in a relationship and you have to constantly keep them on their toes and off-balance to stay with them.
Women are powerless to resist the right type of guy. Even if they're married, they'll get sucked along.
Women are easily manipulated by simple magic tricks and talk of new agey topics.

that stuff is mostly true


Now let's look at some supposed problems within the seduction community:

Feeling arrogant and superior just for being in the 'Community'

some truth to this, altho in many ways you are superior. Nonetheless, you should not hold disdain for your fellow man but should instead try to help him whenever possible.

Being an unsolicited advice and opinion giver

truth to this -- but it's not an altogether bad thing in most cases. If someone acts annoyed or clearly tells you to stop advising them, you should obviously let them be.

Misapplying advice you don't truly 'get'

umm that's to be expected whenever you're learning something

A skewed perspective towards other guys

There is probably some truth to this problem. But as I said, you should try to help your fellow man, not compete with them as if women were some prize.

Idolizing the wrong types of people

Bah this one is kind of silly. Most people idolize players for their sexual skills, not for whatever other screwed-up lifestyles they lead.

Overdoing it with the Community jargon

yeah, I guess some people do that

Focusing on flashy tricks instead of truly being effective with women

A lot of n00bs here definitely do that. Those men obviously haven't read Pook.

Trading one set of misguided ideas about women for another

As I posted above, this criticism is mostly false.

Interpreting everything you come across through Community concepts

This criticism is mostly false. (Most requests from girls ARE tests in one way or another.)

Buying too much into the self-hype that the Community is some movement

The community is a movement -- and an important one.

Being too into the idea of the Community being secret and underground

I don't know of anyone that has this problem

Being too against mainstream society

Mainstream society sucks

Wanting to be a guru who's looked up to by other guys

Yeah, that is a problem for certain people on this board, I think, but it's not a very big problem.

Falling into a cult-like atmosphere towards certain personalities or schools of thought

:yawn:

Seeing being good with women as a skill to compete with other guys over for its own sake

Valid criticism

Getting too sucked into all the drama and gossip of the scene

not particularly relevant criticism, as far as I know

Personally hanging out with too many really weird people

False

Going too far with Self-Improvement

Bah, you can't really go too far with self-improvement

Buying into the weirdness of particular personalities or schools of thought

yeah, I guess that's true for some people

Feeling you have to abandon your past life

You do

Feeling that getting a girlfriend is a sign of weakness and settling

hmm, I guess that's probably true for some people -- not really for me, tho

Focusing on nothing but getting women and valuing everything in terms of how it helps your game

Definitely a problem. People should read Pook and they will understand that women are not the prize or the goal.

Trying to proselytize and convert your friends

nothing wrong with that, although you should do it carefully to avoid exposure of all your sources to people who might shame you

Being an overconfident loser

it's way better than being an unconfident loser, and it's the first step to becoming a non-loser. Very few seduction posters will say that confidence is the only thing you need and that proper grooming and social skills are unimportant. Straw man criticism.

Doing weird, anti-social things to get over your fears

Bah, so what. Getting over fears is important

Thinking you can reduce all human interactions down to a repeatable formula

Hmm, this is a valid criticism for some PUAs, I guess

Basing your entire identity around being a 'PUA'

Pretty valid criticism, although it's usually just a phase for most DJs, I think.

Chasing after and glorifying a lifestyle you don't even know you want

Yeah, I agree that the hormonger lifestyle is kinda stupid, altho some people do like it.

 

[ready123]

I think that article is more indicative of ASF/fastseduction than of this site. That's probably because almost all major PUAs have posted on that site at one time or another. Here the only gurus were really Pook and Anti-dump and much of their focus was on inner game and mindset.

When it comes to fastseduction.com I agree w/ every point of that article. There's a lot of dumb sht on that message board you can dig through that supports all of it.

But a lot of it still rings true on this board somewhat. Especially the misapplication and KJ-ing

 

[TheHumanist]

*List of bad things women do*

that stuff is mostly true

He said that it is with truth too, What do you think of...

I'm not saying there's no truth at all in these statements, of course there's some. These statements do describe some women, or the way some women act in certain circumstances. But taken as a whole, you gotta admit this set of beliefs is pretty negative, misogynistic even. Just as all women aren't special creatures that need to be rescued, they aren't all fickle, emotional, and selfish either. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and it depends on the girl. Some girls are really normal and cool and easy to talk to.

DO you think he correct or incorrect that taking the thing as a whole is going too far in setting a mindset towards women? Taking it whole, it would usually mean looking at women with a lot of disdain. What about taking whole means at your professor/teacher (who is female), female friend, girlfriend, your mom?

some truth to this, altho in many ways you are superior. Nonetheless, you should not hold disdain for your fellow man but should instead try to help him whenever possible.

There is probably some truth to this problem. But as I said, you should try to help your fellow man, not compete with them as if women were some prize.

I find what he meant more is the way other people look in life and women. For example, I know two guys who in LTRs right now: one guy have a very cool and friendly guy (the Juno movie tralier sort of sound like him, minus the teenage pregnacy) who does some pretty cool things like he can play the electric guitar like no other. The other guy is one of the most outgoing, funniest guy you can meet. However, both have less than ideal relationships, but otherwise very cool guys causing a conflict of how to look at them.

Here's a bit more... redicoulous example but might illustrate better: Yesterday I was reading Ron Paul's personal life on Wikipedia, it says he married the girl from High School after college. Is he AFC? By many advice around here, he wasted his youth.

It is not just saying you are better, but more thinking the others are blind fools or something.

Bah this one is kind of silly. Most people idolize players for their sexual skills, not for whatever other screwed-up lifestyles they lead.

I'm not so sure its silly, when people idolize players for their skills, many in turn idolize their lifestyles as-a-whole seeing its part of the package.

Getting too sucked into all the drama and gossip of the scene

not particularly relevant criticism, as far as I know

Str8up. Backbreaker. (Not that I find them bad, but good examples of what he said)

Feeling you have to abandon your past life

You do

So that means old friends (not friends who want to see you stay down, I mean supportive friends who don't care to go out and sarge) have to be left behind? Many people find that anything geeky have to be thrown behind too (I remember something like that from DJdan who reformed a lot but threw away a lot of the old self). Sure, if the past life was a life of negative mindset guys, staying indoors all the time, and completely sedementary... than yeah... but I don't think most people are at that point.

Finally his conclusion I find it very interesting.

If you're bad with women then you gotta get this part of your life handled, or you'll never be totally happy. Some aspects of the Seduction Community might be of use to you in that regard. I don't unconditionally hate the Community, just the many things this article pointed out. I wouldn't be with my girlfriend without it, and I've met some great people during my time there. I just think you gotta keep yourself down to earth if you get into this scene. Stay the same person you always were, just be better socially and romantically. Don't lose your life to some weird subculture in the process and end up hurting your cause.

Also, as I say in some other articles on this site, many guys can make more progress towards doing better with women by improving their basic social skills and personality, and overcoming the anxieties that prevent them from trying to meet women. Trying to become a player without this foundation of attractiveness can just sidetrack them, because they're not addressing their core problems.

I remember a poster said, "I found it hilarious that guys come here looking to find an ltr and end up hating it." I don't think a person need to become an expert player to get the girl, though many here go in that direction.

 

[Obsidian]

Well, Ready is definitely correct that this article is more geared toward speed-seduction boards and that the criticisms are more valid regarding those sites.

Regarding abandoning your old life:
When you begin understanding the matrix, some of your friends will abandon you. They won't tolerate your new identity. Some of your remaining friends will continue to accept you but they will choose to remain AFCs themselves. Regarding those people, you should still hang out with them somewhat, but you often can't remain as close to them as you were before -- because they'll just be dragging you down. Think about people whose idea of fun is just to drink beers at home and watch television all the time. It can be fun to go do that with them on occasion, but you can't make yourself really boring just to keep hanging out with old chum(p)s.

I do think marrying your high school sweetheart is usually fairly stupid. Chances are there will be about 200 girls in your senior class, max, and the likelihood that one of those girls is your best fit for long-term commitment is abysmally low. Same thing with the chumps who feel like they have to find their wife in college, or at their job, or whatever. If you go to a really big school of 20k+ people, maybe you can have a decent pool of women to choose from, but you should always be really picky in choosing who you marry. (And you should also get a prenup.)

I don't think Ron Paul is a chump because he's sexually moral; marrying a girl right out of high school seems a little iffy, though. Marriage was a lot more stable back when he was young, though, so he probably had less to worry about.


Yes, I think it's fine to be misogynistic. In fact, I've had more success with the ladies since adopting a more misogynistic attitude.

The following emboldened phrases are completely true for most women:

Women are flaky and unreliable.
Women are emotional and illogical.
Women only live in the emotion of the moment, do what feels good at the time, and justify their actions to themselves after the fact.
Women are manipulative and use guys for free drinks and dinners.
Women are fickle and have short attention spans.
Women are self-centered and self-interested.
Women primarily go to clubs for attention and validation from men.
Women constantly test men, try to devalue them, and try to make them jump through hoops.
Women try to make men suck up to them and put them on a pedestal.
Women think their pussies are made of gold and sell them to the highest bidder.
Women don't know what they really want.
Women are confused and hypocritical. They'll profess to dislike whorish behavior then blow a guy in a bathroom that night.
Women are programmed to want to get knocked up by an Alpha Male then ensnare an unwitting Beta Male into raising the child for her.
Women will cheat on their partners coldly and unemotionally.
Women are slaves to how their friends and society sees them. They want to sleep around, but have to be discrete about it.
Society's expectations have given women all kinds of weird hang ups up about sex and hooking up. Their minds are full of strange rationalizations and justifications.
Women aren't happy for long in a relationship[,] and you have to constantly keep them on their toes and off-balance to stay with them.
Women are powerless to resist the right type of guy. Even if they're married, they'll get sucked along.
Women are easily manipulated by simple magic tricks and talk of new agey topics.

The statements that are not emboldened are somewhat less accurate, although still true for some women.

 

[TheHumanist]

Well, Ready is definitely correct that this article is more geared toward speed-seduction boards and that the criticisms are more valid regarding those sites.

Regarding abandoning your old life:
When you begin understanding the matrix, some of your friends will abandon you. They won't tolerate your new identity. Some of your remaining friends will continue to accept you but they will choose to remain AFCs themselves. Regarding those people, you should still hang out with them somewhat, but you often can't remain as close to them as you were before -- because they'll just be dragging you down. Think about people whose idea of fun is just to drink beers at home and watch television all the time. It can be fun to go do that with them on occasion, but you can't make yourself really boring just to keep hanging out with old chum(p)s.

I'm not sure that entirely correct. Yes, when a person start doing more stuff and the old friends does nothing then yeah, it gets too boring and you start drifting. Though that more like drifting apart in diverging interests than like friends turning hostile. There are some "friends" who attack and try to bring down the evolving person, but I don't usually consider them friends, and many times they are type of person they are (ie jealous or argumentative) already apparent of who they are for a long time.

Yes, I think it's fine to be misogynistic. In fact, I've had more success with the ladies since adopting a more misogynistic attitude.

I'm also not sure about, I tried to think like that before (largely not on purpose). Seeing a girl and expecting her to act illogical and emotional, but I don't find them crying or always going around causing drama around that me that much. Lately I been wondering that this is the other extreme like the angels belief, therefore the list is not compeltely correct either.

I just don't feel the list is correct, most the girls I seen and heard with haven't done something that I cannot fathom, go by impulse and rationalize more than guys, go with alpha guys while the beta guys wait to open their wallets. The times I do see girls that unstable are the ones that goes to parties a lot, but many around point that there's no difference. Others recently say the opposite (and thus gave advice to Str8up in his thread to find new friends). Yeah, they can be dramatic or things like that, but that list make it sound like any girl I meet and most girls I know should be causing chaos. Lately guys been doing that more.



Finally, what do you think of the conclusion? The direction he said is if a guy have no ability with women than that need to be remedied (and thus the usefulness of DJism and PUAs), but it sound that enough to able to deal and attract women. I don't know if I'm saying this right, but many of the guys I know aren't like DJ, at least not by the getting tons of women sense. They don't look super cool or sharp, they actually can be quite geeky and nerdy. While they don't dominate, but I don't see them getting whipped. They are pushing to grow and learn, but they aren't like against mainstream and so on. Yet, many are in pretty decent LTRs from what I can see. Is there a need to gain such a super level of attracting that many women?