What do we have here?

[SecondHalf]

I’m hoping this thread will not only help me, but maybe help others, especially those who might be in denial or not yet indifferent to the female mindset. Please do ask answer with your perceptions, or ask your own question…

My clouded question…

I’ve been casually dating this 45 year old woman for about 8 months. There are aspects to the relationship that are 5*’s. There are aspects that are -2.

Below is a point form outline of the first things that have popped into my head…
Honestly, I’m in too deep to be able to think about this clearly. I would like to hear from others what their subjective opinion of my point form observations (about her, not me if you please).

• Never talks about herself … really … never … nada.
• Very secretive, a little sneaky (purposely vague).
• Quiet, but loves to laugh, listen.
• Very attentive… like huge, almost weird motherly sh1t sometimes, also happy/eager to spend almost all non-working hours with me.
• Tight with the dollar (entertainment expense ratio is maybe 75/25 – yep, this can never happen again).
• Finances are good, she could retire now and live a … humble life at 45).
• Very sexually accommodating (has never said no, no oral though).
• However a blowup doll would complain about the … intensity before this girl.
• Likes a massage, but gives a crappy one, very low effort.
• She is too old for a kid, wants nothing to do with one (45), but will let me bark every time without concern (apparently that’s for me).
• Looks like a 35+ year old Penelope Cruise.
• Wants marriage (of course, they all do).
• A bit of a narcissist, loves male attention, yep, bit of a problem here.
• Gullible, might have daddy issues – again, bit of a problem here.
• Never wrong, will absolutely deny, play the “perception card … gaslighting”.
• Doesn’t initiate any kind of … meaningful conversation, sex - although will suggest we could, that’s her way of initiating (seems to need the “unbalance” in the relationship).


All this said, if I were to give an objective opinion, I would have to say that any male she comes across fits or doesn’t into a placeholder beside her. None are special, all are … tools. It’s all very much business. Beta’s are preferred as she prefers constant attention over Alpha lure. However, beta’s are fine until eventual indifference catchs up after she’s saved a bunch of life money and moves on to the next one.

What I can’t figure out is if she’s a calculating vampire / user or if she’s got serious issues and wearing armor an inch thick. I’ve also considered that she’s a “controller” but there are other considerations. Some things she will ask my opinion (there is this dress on sale, should I buy it?), others things where she likely should, she just does …. likely projecting how I’ll react and therefore takes me out of the equation.

I admit, my decision will be the same regardless of what members might advise (yep, there are only problems here) but I must admit, I would like to understand a little better before I jump.


Opinions please?
Thanks in advance.

Also, it would be interesting to puzzle on other peoples conundrums. Please ask, there is so much experience on this website.

SH

 

[donking]

you're 50. do you want a woman to grow old with?

if no, then this one is just temporary and doesn't matter in the long run.
if yes, start looking.

 

[Desdinova]

Never talks about herself … really … never … nada.

I find the above is common with women who have daddy issues. Honestly, I wouldn't keep this woman around for the long haul. Sounds like she has too many incompatibilities for you to be incredibly happy with her. Unless she's dying and needs someone to inherit the loads of cash she's hoarding away, she's just good for a temporary fix until something better comes along.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Second Half,
Yeah great for a long term relationship,maybe three or four nights a week....not for settling down though...Could go on for many years...as long as you have time for spinning plates quite acceptable...can't ask for much more...as time passes you will just ignore her bad points,long as she puts out why do they concern you?

 

[SecondHalf]

Thanks all.

I agree with all, but don't think I could string this one along without lying about my future intentions. She has already wasted years with previous men that all eventually ejected.

As far as for just the physical aspect of it, dunno, think it's to late for that. The foot is tapping already.

A nice woman, but there is a real void there and I've already experienced that when I'm out of sight, I'm out of mind, she immediately latches on to alternative male attention (pretty sure anyway).

The real purpose of this thread was to get others opinions what makes her tick as I'm no longer objective and there are so many contradictions.
I already know what I have to eventually do.

SH

 

[The Duke]

I’m hoping this thread will not only help me, but maybe help others, especially those who might be in denial or not yet indifferent to the female mindset. Please do ask answer with your perceptions, or ask your own question…

• Never talks about herself … really … never … nada.
-People who rarely talk about themselves typically have a high tolerance for emotions that may emerge when listening to someone else speak. These types tend to be "thinkers" and pretty rational. You pick up more details by keeping your mouth shut and listening than you do talking!

• Very secretive, a little sneaky (purposely vague).
-It requires effort to be secretive. The brain has to work harder to keep a secret than it does to not keep a secret. Concealing the truth tends to develop obsessive thoughts which burden the mind.
• Quiet, but loves to laugh, listen.
-The quiet ones tend to be the thinkers and pretty analytical.

• Tight with the dollar (entertainment expense ratio is maybe 75/25 – yep, this can never happen again).
Those who spend freely also tend to be more emotional and impulsive. They like to feel good at that moment. People who spend easily tend to be more materialistic.
• Finances are good, she could retire now and live a … humble life at 45).
• She is too old for a kid, wants nothing to do with one (45), but will let me bark every time without concern (apparently that’s for me).

• A bit of a narcissist, loves male attention, yep, bit of a problem here.Narcissist typically talk about themselves and let you know how great they are. Need more info on this.
• Gullible, might have daddy issues – again, bit of a problem here.
Aren't most girls pretty gullible???
• Never wrong, will absolutely deny, play the “perception card … gaslighting”.
-It takes a strong, confident individual to admit they are wrong. A lot of women behave this way.

I'm guessing that you two lack compatibility. So has she done a better job at saving money than you? Is this intimidating a little? Are you pretty forthcoming with your thoughts? Do you talk more than you listen? Can you have a 50/50 conversation and not interrupt the other person?

People like the woman you described can come across as intimidating to many.

Its interesting that you requested that we do not analyze you, just her? why? To understand the entire picture, one needs to understand both the players.

 

[SecondHalf]

• People who rarely talk about themselves typically have a high tolerance for emotions that may emerge when listening to someone else speak. These types tend to be "thinkers" and pretty rational. You pick up more details by keeping your mouth shut and listening than you do talking!

-Actually, she's quite insecure and a tad needy. However I believe that it's a control mechanism to put the partner off balance and have him always lobbying for attention / confirmation. Before I joined sosuave, that would have done a number on me. However, it's just speculation on my part. I'm a tad jaded and find it easy to see the bad.

• It requires effort to be secretive. The brain has to work harder to keep a secret than it does to not keep a secret. Concealing the truth tends to develop obsessive thoughts which burden the mind.
-Not sure of your point about burdening the mind, but the effort point was very good.

• The quiet ones tend to be the thinkers and pretty analytical.
-No ... she's not that bright, again, I think quite insecure.

• Those who spend freely also tend to be more emotional and impulsive. They like to feel good at that moment. People who spend easily tend to be more materialistic.
I'm the one mostly stuck with the bill. I would like to see a little more skin on the table in the future.

• Finances are good, she could retire now and live a … humble life at 45).
• She is too old for a kid, wants nothing to do with one (45), but will let me bark every time without concern (apparently that’s for me).

• Narcissist typically talk about themselves and let you know how great they are. Need more info on this.
Good point. There is a contradiction isn't there. I suppose she loves the mirror / camera and wants to be a tad hotter than she is. That is what I meant.

• Aren't most girls pretty gullible???
Yep, true, but this one is overly so. I did mention that she's not very bright, but maybe it's naivety.

• It takes a strong, confident individual to admit they are wrong. A lot of women behave this way.
Just never seen one use such faulty logic to save face. Not to this extreme anyway.

I'm guessing that you two lack compatibility. So has she done a better job at saving money than you? Is this intimidating a little? Are you pretty forthcoming with your thoughts? Do you talk more than you listen? Can you have a 50/50 conversation and not interrupt the other person?

People like the woman you described can come across as intimidating to many.

No, she's not wealthier than I, I'm in pretty good shape too. Much better earning potential going forward as well where she has peaked.
Yes, I do talk more than I listen. It would be pretty quiet if I didn't.
Most of our conversations are superficial fluff as she won't talk about herself and I've talked enough in the beginning.
Our conversations are never 50/50. She just doesn't have much to say. Regardless, we don't interrupt each other.

Its interesting that you requested that we do not analyze you, just her? why? To understand the entire picture, one needs to understand both the players.

I suppose the reason for this is that the interpretation of her actions was all I was interested in. I concede the point though, it's difficult to judge her characteristics without a clear view of the dynamics of the relationship ... hence my part in it.

Which is a pretty long story...
Condensed version ... or my mistakes in it...
I didn't guard my boundaries enough (time & money).
I've learned enough to not talk endlessly about myself and pledge my undying love and commitment.

If it was a little more casual, she would be ideal, but I let it evolve too far (my bad). One of my issues is, is that I'm a single full time father and if I want steady ... I have to limit it to one. Would not be appropriate for my son to see multiple partners around (this I'm quite firm about).

Why I'm trying to figure this out, is that after time, you get pretty used to the person. You start to accept things that will likely bother you down the road, but by then you've invested years. Not only that buy my kid is getting used to her too.

I've asked for help and others perceptions as I'm clearly frustrated and a little confused as to what this woman is about.

Am I an over thinking paranoid nut job and we're just a little different (maybe).
Or is my gut trying to tell me something and I'm ignoring it because it's comfortable and convenient for now (maybe).

I just don't get her motive and clarity might help me make a firm decision or at least accept things as they are.

I'm

SH

 

[The Duke]

Do you know all the details of her past? What kind of childhood did she have? What were her parents like? What kind of guys has she dated? Did she have any past marriages? Is she willing to talk openly about this type of stuff? Was she brought up in a household where the women were expected to be quiet? Did she have an exhusband who expected that of her? You get the answers to these questions and you'll be able to understand a lot more about why she acts like she does.

Women internalize so much and they don't recover and move forward as well as males do. I'm just wondering if there aren't some issues from the past that she hasn't dealt with that keep her from opening up and having conversations with more depth. Perhaps she fears what your response would be so she keeps it to herself. Sometimes the more painful the experiences, the longer they go unresolved, the deeper they are buried......and the thicker the armor.

 

[SecondHalf]

I have learned hints of things that might influence her, but the info is very vague and never intended as a whine or negative. Again she doesn't talk about her past very much at all. She has opened up once about her ex-huzbo and the three long term relationships she's had since, but always very vague.

Father a military type, very strict, little cruel maybe ... like disposing of the family pet without the children's input.

Huzbo - very vague, but the daughter also has daddy issues too.
1st BF - gambler, wasted 10 years waiting for him to get his **** together.
2nd BF - wasted two years, they were looking for a house together. The BF's daughter killed it in an evening and said ... don't want things to change. So, he dumped her.
3rd BF - wasted three years. He changed his tune and decided he wanted her 44 year old body to give him a child. So, she "emotionally prepared herself" and walked away. I'm thinking this guy at that point was dealing with the person I'm dealing with and wanted her to put some skin on the table. This was the only card he had.

Do I think one of these has given her a pretty hard time ... yep. The no oral for instance. Given that she once told me that she absolutely hates the typical male posture where he leans back with his hands behind the chest indicates to me ... well, she had responsibilities.

Now, as she ages, she's getting impatient for a life partner.
I'm not opposed to such things as I get quite bored with shallow relationships, but man, it's got to be really really ideal and ... not rushed.

Fact is, the whole thing is rather sad.
That plays on my conscience a bit and it's tough as she has many very good qualities too.

However, I am no longer in the "fix you" game, you can fix them but you won't enjoy the benefit, someone else will.

BAH!

SH

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Second Half,
Reading your post it really seems as though you are looking for some deeper relationship too...My advice:You are too old for that path,from now on use them the way you use your car,for utility and pleasure.

"don't think I could string this one along without lying about my future intentions."You don't have to lie,just be disingenuous,by considering that you are against "stringing them along"suggests that you have embraced a famale value system...They don't hesitate to string you along,alluring us into their net by offering sexual rewards...

"when I'm out of sight, I'm out of mind, she immediately latches on to alternative male attention (pretty sure anyway)."So why the precious attitudes in your thoughts about her?

 

[glass half full]

She sounds a lot like my ex. Not totally, but enough for me to throw the red flag. I would keep looking, you deserve better, and so does your son.

 

[Colossus]

Tight with the dollar (entertainment expense ratio is maybe 75/25 – yep, this can never happen again).

A bit of a narcissist, loves male attention, yep, bit of a problem here.

Never wrong, will absolutely deny, play the “perception card … gaslighting”.

Doesn’t initiate any kind of … meaningful conversation, sex - although will suggest we could, that’s her way of initiating (seems to need the “unbalance” in the relationship).

I’ve also considered that she’s a “controller” but there are other considerations.

I think all these are red flags. I say that because she reminds me of my former girlfriend in many ways. ESPECIALLY the gaslighting.....man that is a serious red flag. People who gaslight typically have major accountability issues (LOTS of adult women) and they are often very controlling. Do you want to marry someone like that? That will only intensify.

The not initiating thing also would kill it for me. I cant be with someone who is just a blob---never having any interesting thoughts or philosophies or questions about life. So shallow, I would get bored and have a hard time respecting them.

Oh and most importantly---NO HEAD?!?! Unacceptable! :box:

 

[SecondHalf]

Good points Scar.

Regarding interested in a relationship?
Yes, I suppose I am, but not one that is so difficult.

Also, the "stringing along" comment ... I'll have to think on that one. I see your point.

I really just wanted to figure the chick out a little more than I had. I'm leaning towards a controller who wears armor an inch thick. Coupled with the typical female entitlement, at the end there is only a cute woman who is fun in bed and useful in the kitchen, but makes a crappy long term companion.

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate the time you've spent on it.

SH

 

[SecondHalf]

I think all these are red flags. I say that because she reminds me of my former girlfriend in many ways. ESPECIALLY the gaslighting.....man that is a serious red flag. People who gaslight typically have major accountability issues (LOTS of adult women) and they are often very controlling. Do you want to marry someone like that? That will only intensify.

The not initiating thing also would kill it for me. I cant be with someone who is just a blob---never having any interesting thoughts or philosophies or questions about life. So shallow, I would get bored and have a hard time respecting them.

Oh and most importantly---NO HEAD?!?! Unacceptable! :box:

Hey thanks, funny ... I was writing the last response when your message came in. Great summary!

The head thing bugs me, was hoping she'd get around to it, but doesn't look like she ever will unless I bug her about it.

SH

 

[Die Hard]

Congratulations, you've come under the spell of a cluster B bytch!

Deep down, most of us know what's going on when we get involved with one, but that realization gets blurred and overwhelmed by our own mind playing tricks on us (under the influence of her mindfvcking ways...).

We're convinced that we're still in control of our own mind and emotions, while in fact, we've lost that control already. The moment this realization hits us, it's already too late and the bytch already has her hooks sinked deeply into us...

Let me quote you some, I'll comment in bold:

I didn't guard my boundaries enough (time & money).

Stop deluding yourself. You don't want to admit it to yourself (so you speak about time & money), but you really didn't guard your EMOTIONAL boundaries enough. You know it, you just don't want to accept the reality of it...

If it was a little more casual, she would be ideal, but I let it evolve too far (my bad). One of my issues is, is that I'm a single full time father and if I want steady ...

Exactly... You let it evolve too far, you got emotionally attached to her.

Why I'm trying to figure this out, is that after time, you get pretty used to the person. You start to accept things that will likely bother you down the road, but by then you've invested years.

Don't talk about some hypothetical situation in the FUTURE. That moment has already come! You ALREADY got pretty used to her and you are ALREADY accepting things which are bothering you. You KNOW you need to get away from this woman RIGHT NOW, but you've already invested your emotions into her and can't just break away from her.

You don't want to accept this fact, coz it puts your mind into a state of turmoil and makes you feel uncomfortable. Which is understandable...coz it puts you at war with yourself, your mind knowing you have to do what's right for you but your emotions putting up resistance, causing an inner conflict with no easy solution, which makes you feel uncomfortable...

So you'd rather not be aware of this conflict and convince yourself that things are not like this yet. You convince yourself that it will be a problem in the FUTURE, but not now yet... Which is very convenient, you tell yourself that you'll need to deal with the problem in the future, so you can still have peace of mind at present time.

But this trick of your mind will only do you more harm, my friend. Coz all this time that you stay with her and try to postpone the problem, will allow her to sink her hooks deeper into you, will allow your emotional attachment to grow stronger... Which, of course, will make it even harder to break away from her. The longer you wait, the harder it will become to make that decision...

I've asked for help and others perceptions as I'm clearly frustrated and a little confused as to what this woman is about.

The frustration comes from your inner conflict. You already know what this woman is about, you just don't WANT to know...you don't want to accept it.

Am I an over thinking paranoid nut job and we're just a little different (maybe).
Absolutely not!

Or is my gut trying to tell me something and I'm ignoring it because it's comfortable and convenient for now (maybe).

BINGO!!

I just don't get her motive and clarity might help me make a firm decision or at least accept things as they are.

My man, she herself doesn't even know her motive! Quit trying to figure out how her mind works... All you need to know, is that she's seriously DISORDERED and that she's gonna bring you misery and unhappiness.

Honestly, I’m in too deep to be able to think about this clearly.

See? You know exactly what's going on, as I said at the very top of this post. She has sucked you into her vortex and by now it's already quite difficult to get out...

My man, you know you have to push the eject button, you said so several times in this thread. So do it! Don't keep throwing up obstacles that keep you from doing it, like the need to gather more understanding about the way her mind works etc. Trust me, there will be plenty of opportunity to find answers and look for 'closure' AFTER you ejected. But right now, you need to get the fvck away from her.

 

[Kailex]

If you have to come online and make a bullet point list about her pros and cons... that to me is the biggest indicator of what you should do next.