What are your thoughts on Guru's?

[Solomon]

I'm just curious to see what most people on the boards think about "seduction" Guru's who charge guys like you for products, and what not. However I think I gotta tell a bit about my experience and opinion regarding this topic.

Reading "The Game" by Neil Strauss, back in August of 2008 was a "Warning" of sorts. I started looking at "Game" forums but most of them were too "nerdy" for me or "Cult like" (you know fanboy shyt aka guru worship). Also the fact that Mystery got a "pass"(or other Guru's) even though Strauss exposed him as a weirdo and he even admitted himself(going ape shyt over his ex Katya, suicidal tendencies etc)had me a bit worried. The fact is you have to look at the Guru not just for his teaching but as a person as well(hence most of them have the frail egos cause their trying to come of as "Super Pimps") When I landed on here it was a breath of Fresh air. This site focused on the game theory/self improvement and hitting the field(sadly the field reporters that i have grown to admire don't post no more, and guys with reps rather talk about dumb crap) I have had my run ins with Guru's on this site and other site. And I honestly believe that 90% of them shouldn't be teaching game or just trying to make a quick buck. With the recent "Gunwitch" situation it has really made me think. What makes a Guy qualified to teach seduction? . Heck if I want I can bone a average girl at will that doesn't take much even with me being chubby right now, however going up the echelon (7+'s) does take a lot of skill/social value/tight game etc. One of the reasons why I don't post a lot of "theory" talk is cause I feel like I'm mentally masturbating when I do it. SO if I do make a post like this or my blog, its cause I'm thinking aloud about a particular topic and want to write my thoughts/experiences down and share it with my readers or get others opinions on a topic.

1. First of if you charging money for boot camps ($3,000 for that shyt with that I can buy hookers for a month!) that are in the thousands or high hundreds with no money back guarantees or just three days its bull****. there is no way in 3 days a guy is gonna have the savvy the teacher would or to grasp all the concepts. I have gone out with guys and it took some of them a good year to get a decent level and what not, while it took others barley weeks to get good (what up Strategoes!). Every guy is different
   
2. Bullshyt products--I had a guru on this site (who isn't a Guru anymore) tell me that my game wasn't good because I wasn't closing girls a "100%" of the time. Mind you at that time My game was tighter then a virgins (3 somes, 5 girls in one month, 20 plus number closes etc etc)
3. You have guru's come out with DVD's/e-books/seminars etc that are outrageous prices which don't even have anything to do with pick up or are just "filler products" to get your business. As a guy who has been in retail/sales/finance for over 10 years. I know a good (or bad) sales men/sales pitch when i see one. you can't out-hustle a hustler lol
   
4. No proof of game--To me it's always a pleasure to see a guru's infield footage. I know some Guru's "fake the funk" but I think most that post the footage are legit (i.e. my homie KrauserPua) now the question is what they choose to show you is a whole another story. They may just choose to show you the good shyt instead of bad. What is mystifying though is Guru's who have this "internet" fame and charge thousands of dollars for bootcamps but no one has seen a video much less a picture of the guru because they fear "privacy" or being "sued" by girls. This is pure nonsense, I have snapped pictures of girls that i didn't even know, just for me to open them because of that. Taking field footage of girls, mind you even if they are drunk or whatever and wanna sue me the chances of the girls finding out that I have footage of them is less then .5% A lot of girls really don't care and actually love me being filmed or photographed. You got Guru's now who can come on the internet write some great post, and no one questions their game, yet most of the so called legends in the game or forums usually just post "theory" shyt which half the time isn't applicable in the field cause the game isn't black or white(every girl isn't the same HELLO!).
   
5. Method--What method are they teaching, if their teaching you to touch women inappropriately or do some outrageous shyt like scream loudly when you walk in the venue or some crap. then whats the point. A former Guru admitted to having his students do things and I quote "I would never do that". Personally I think Guru's aren't teaching anything new under the sun and most steal from each other. Pook and Gunwtich were actually teaching guys how to be "Alpha" way before your favorite blogger/pua guru was. There "no name" gamers who were teaching stuff that weren't popular but now due to the "change" of times some "recycled" their game and are spitting it like it's theirs. On top of that a lot of Guru's game is limited to only "Getting the girl" but not keeping her i.e. relationship game, hence the main reason main discussion stay flooded with questions what to do in a certain relationship, which in my opinion makes Guru's limited in terms of game in general
   
6. However my biggest thing is Creditability. Lot of Guru's seem to be bytch-fighting amongst themselves because of their ego's. It's amazing how egoistical they are. If you don't agree with them oh shyt watch out. This is most guru's I have encountered (and trust me I have correspondent/dealt with F-list Guru's who were no names to yup you guessed even Gunwitch himself). A Guru's credibility isn't much because if someone talks "badly" a bout him he may lose business.

Personally speaking I think the only way to know if a guy is truly creditable is if you hit the field with them a minimum of 10 times and see them in action. You could go out with me tonight (which I'm planning on doing fellas ) and I could have a freaking amazing night, or you could go out with me 9 times in a row and I just suck (meh it happens more often then not belive you me) but I think seeing someone in person beats any hearsay or "video" footage cause you see it in the flesh. I know it's harder said then done but ya know it is what it is

thoughts?

 

[Borknagar]

I agree totally bro! Especially when you mentioned about how most of this is only geared getting the girl, not relationships, or even day 2s. Hell night game and gaining female interest is the EASY part, just work on yourself, cloths in shape, and get some balls and confidence, and you're good to go, don't need a ****ing bootcamp! Look at me I've went years single, with no female interest what so ever, hell I used to be super shy and shake around women, now I go out all the time on the weekends, I don't f-close always but the option is always there I just need a bit of improvement and not get so wasted and I could probably f-close every night I go out.

Never done a bootcamp, and only skimmed a couple books. And watched the whole pickup artist series Mystery did on vh1 a couple years ago. Though aside from the fact it might be staged, and the contestants personal changes went a bit faster than you'd expect norm, the show did seem kind of realistic. As everything(aside from the part dude took a stripper into the limo) on the show could be done in the way it was a pretty easily. I'm kind of known around some friends of mine to be able to k+n close in a matter of a few minutes. And a few months back had a girl home with me in under a hour.

Not only that but this whole "HB" thing, I don't think people bang 9s-10s as much as they are trying to make other posters believe. Cause a 9 to a somewhat ok looking guy is going to be a 6 to a really handsome guy so this HB shyt is irrelevant.

Other flaws in it is like you mentioned, it's assuming all women work the same, and if you failed it's your fault according to the "scene". Not only that but even on sites like this, not so much this one but a lot of other major pickup sites, when something goes wrong, everyone likes to pick apart the persons post and say what HE did wrong. Just like the ****ty media, noone likes to accept the fact that WOMEN do things wrong a lot of the time(example, guy cheats he's a azzhole, girl cheats he did something wrong to drive her into the arms of another man cause he's too AFC etc, always making the women the victim).

Off the record, dude you're awesome to sarge with man! You're badass at the clubs, you're excitement really shows it man lol.

 

[Solomon]

Bork

I think what your saying is point, the fact that the community hasn't evolved yet from that aspect shows. Mystery for example is still teaching the same crap he taught 7 years ago. There is no evolution, and the whole HB thing I've address in the pass and is spot on

You get it!