What am I doing wrong?

[Xalfin]

Hey everyone.

I’m a 22M (5’11, 165 lbs @ 12% BF) who’s currently wrapping up his junior year in college. Got sidelined by Long Covid for two years (as in nigh disabled), and am just now getting back into game and all that (mostly recovered by mid-September of last year).

As far as looks go, I’d say I’m around a 7; I get compliments from both guys and girls on a somewhat regular basis, and although my wardrobe isn’t immaculate, it’s at least decent clothing, i.e. chinos with a jacket and Stans. Although I’m not in a frat, I have a solid core friend group and a smattering of acquaintances. I’ve been dibble dabbling in the Red Pill for about two months now, although I’m still having some trouble fully internalizing it.

All this to say; what exactly am I doing wrong? My daygame and nightclub approaches have by and large been incredibly unfruitful. At least from my own POV, I have decent to good social skills. I made it a point to start talking to literally everyone, and I can hold a pretty good conversation with most people regardless of the subject. I regularly ‘cold approach’ girls that I’m interested in, usually with me commenting on something they’re wearing or something that stands about them and then parlaying that into a short convo before getting their number and dipping, usually all done within 2 minutes.

I already go to the gym religiously and have cut out most useless things like junk food, vidya games, etc. Despite all this, my success rates are actual trash; it’s a little shameful to admit, but I’ve only been with 2 girls in the past 6 months. I know I know, everyone says to have a mission and all that, but this **** is really bothering me and frankly I’m tired of being bitchless.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again whilst expecting a different result, so obviously I’m doing something wrong here. I grew up in an extremely religious household with a pretty beta dad, so I still have some compunctions and internal conflicts about pursuing casual sex and being sexual with and touching girls. I think this is the crux of the issue, as although I no longer supplicate and simp, I’m definitely not as sexual and ‘subversive’ as I’d like to be. Working on this but it takes a lil’ time to root out such deeply held beliefs.

What advice would y’all give based on my situation? One major hurdle was ‘confidence’ and learning to embrace rejection. You could argue it’s ironic that I’m typing this since perhaps I’m simply running away from it, but at a certain point it seems better to revise your strategy and THEN take action rather than simply spam something that isn’t working. Feel free to call me out on certain things or blindspots I might have; perhaps I’m not as good in certain areas as I believe myself to be. Would much rather take a small blow to the ego and improve than live in delusion. If y’all want more details for more specific / better tailored advice, just ask.

Thanks.

 

[BPH]

@Xalfin where are you located? The fact that you mention frats leads me to believe you're in the USA, but location alone will provide a lot of context.

If you're comfortable posting pictures of yourself, similar to my profile picture, or @tksniper 's, we can give you a little more insight into your looks.

I’m a 22M (5’11, 165 lbs @ 12% BF)

That said, this leads me to believe that you're quite skinny despite your height, and maybe have something of a Vince Vaughn body - skinny fat.

Although I’m not in a frat, I have a solid core friend group and a smattering of acquaintances.

You're of legal drinking age, so a frat matters less, but it still would've been a good way for you to meet women. I spent 2 and a half years as a GDI, and my last year and a half in a frat - and I will say it is definitely easier to meet women when YOU are the one hosting the party and the girls there are there for YOU, where every other guy there is a friend. Beyond that, it's nice to have social events outside of the typical Friday and Saturday at the bar deal that everybody else relies on.

I’ve been dibble dabbling in the Red Pill for about two months now, although I’m still having some trouble fully internalizing it.

The problem with "red pill" is that, yes, it's about masculinity and male empowerment - but it often demonizes women, or sets unrealistic guidelines for how they should behave towards you. I wouldn't lean too hard on their concepts. I believe the reason I've been so successful with women is that I just really love women...and that you should too, if you want to be successful.

I regularly ‘cold approach’ girls that I’m interested in, usually with me commenting on something they’re wearing or something that stands about them and then parlaying that into a short convo before getting their number and dipping, usually all done within 2 minutes.

This is good.

What I will say is that a lot of guys make this mistake of trying to fish for something "unique" or "safe" to say, so that the woman doesn't immediately put her guard up and think you're hitting on her. The problem is that if you get her number this way, it rarely leads to a date or any intimacy, because you didn't show that interest where you first met her - you were just...friendly.

My suggestion is to always be direct, but not aggressively so. 99% of the time, my opener is some variation of "Hey, I think you're gorgeous and just had to come say hi...what's your name?" and then improvise from there to do the rest of what you did properly, which is to get her number, then exit the conversation before I overstay my welcome.

Despite all this, my success rates are actual trash; it’s a little shameful to admit, but I’ve only been with 2 girls in the past 6 months.

You'd be surprised...that's more than a lot of guys will have had during that time. There's a statistic showing something along the lines of 24% of men between 22 and 34 haven't had sex in the last year.

What advice would y’all give based on my situation?

I'd probably start with the thing you have the most control over, which is your looks. What you've described isn't unattractive, but it doesn't sound like you're a standout either. The fact that you're not in a frat means you have more competition for a smaller pool of women, and if your school is big on sports, not being a major player in those isn't doing you any favors either.

Aside from that, it sounds like you don't have approach anxiety, which is most men's biggest hurdle, so that's good. I would wager that you'd see a lot of improvement by simply being more direct about your intentions with the women you meet. Yeah, you'll probably get rejected more - but the women who don't reject you will probably be more open to moving things along, faster, because they know what you want, and decided to stick around.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any other questions as they come up.

 

[RoadKing_Rabbit]

Glad to see you on here. Hope you are able to gain something from the community such as it is.

You seem to be doing great for your age and have a good attitude. That's most of it right there, believe it or not.

My only suggestion isn't so much as "having a mission" because you'll figure that out eventually. Heck, some men don't really find THEIR 'mission' until later in life. I've had many missions in several senses of the word. haha What I would suggest is creating a space for a woman to fill. 'Tired of being 'b1tchless' is a humorous way to put it! What are your hobbies? Maybe try to develop more in those when you've got time away from studies (Fraternity suggests college?) and use that as leverage for first dates. When you are engaged in DOING an activity together, it's a lot easier for a man to show he can lead. Save the dinners, concerts and 1 on 1 stuff for women you're really keen on.

If you're part of study groups or if you hear a particularly attractive girl ask a question during the lecture, maybe mention that you couldn't help but hear about it and ask her if she's considered a study group. Can't count the number of times I heard "We're studying." Riiiiight. They're acing each others--exams? Best of luck, and keep trying. You're going about it the right way, even if it seems like you're not.

Don't worry too much about the red pill as gospel. The red pill is the truth and the men IN the red pill circles interpret that truth and carve out their paths according to how they deal with the truth. Give yourself a hand for not becoming a bellyaching doomer. They exist.

 

[Scaramouche]

Hi Xalfin,
Try dance lessons,you are perfect height,slim probably athletic...Despite my years,I am your height,bit heavier build and I can still pull Women,so what are you worried about?

 

[Xalfin]

Thanks for the quick reply. To answer your questions…

1) Gonna pass on adding pictures for anonymity’s sake. Location wise, I’m in PA

2) I’m pretty cut body wise; I have a naturally lean physique that makes it almost impossible for me to be fat. Been working out for a total of 2 years; started at 145 lbs so the extra 20 is mostly muscle

3) I’ll definitely start being more direct and sexual; women are your mirror so I’m probably either coming across as too platonic, or aren’t setting a frame / dynamic where she’s fully comfortable being sexual. Think it’s a vestige of when I was first starting approaching and simply focused on making conversation rather than necessarily pulling or getting numbers. Makes sense now in hindsight why I’ve been so unsuccessful in this

4) Really good point. Seeing I’m already more or less immune to rejection, I might as well put up my best and most honest shot rather than simply make idle chatter. Gonna go out today and focus simply on being more sexual and direct.

Thanks for the great breakdown. Will continue to work on my looks with a few simple jewelry pieces, better fitting clothes, and slightly better grooming (I have a Travis Scott-esque hairstyle so sometimes that **** gets a lil’ messy)

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is one of the most common things that happens...people end up thinking simply going to the gym and getting in good shape will do all the work for them and it simply does not.

All that does is give you more margin for error, and open doors for you that might not have been open before, but you still need to have the skills to be able to walk through them and then once you walk through them, have the skills to be welcomed in and not kicked out.

Those soft skills...people skills, social tact, emotional intelligence, being charming, confidence, etc still matter and they matter A LOT. I'd suggest you start there. At that end of the day relationships are about people and your interactions with them.

As to what you are doing wrong? You are focusing on the things that elevate what you already have, not the foundational skills you actually need to have to get started.

It would be like a person who just started working out focusing on isolated movements on small body parts like forearms or biceps and then wondering why they aren't seeing overall body change results in the gym, instead of focusing on compound movements like deadlifts and squats, etc.

Those things are great once you already get to a certain level, but they alone will not bring you to that level. They are supplemental, not foundational.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Sadly, attraction doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Even though you’re focusing on your looks, gym progress, clothes, and approach technique, it also depends on the situation the woman is in. If she’s busy, stressed, tired, or not in a social mood, even a good approach will go nowhere. Her mindset at that moment matters just as much as what you say.

Think about how people act during parties, festivals, after final exams, or vacations. In those environments, people are relaxed, playful, and open to meeting others. Their normal routines and responsibilities are temporarily on pause, and because of that, they’re naturally more receptive to flirting and social interaction than they would be on a regular day.

This is why cold approaching randomly can feel like throwing darts at a wall. You might be approaching women who simply aren’t in the right mood or environment. Instead of only improving your opener, think about time, place, and context. Ask yourself where people go when they’re relaxed, bored, or looking for fun, and what are the qualities they lack that you easily can provide. Meeting women in those environments will usually work better than approaching them when they’re busy or distracted.

Also, a heads-up about nightclubs: women there usually expect you to seal the deal the same night, at least a kiss. They rarely plan to follow up the next day. You’ll have more success if you focus on connecting, dancing, and building the bond inside the club, rather than talking for two minutes and leaving.

 

[BPH]

Location wise, I’m in PA

Ok, so I'm in northern Delaware and come up to Philadelphia and West Chester sometimes. If you're around those areas, I would suggest Barnaby's and Santino's in West Chester, and probably Barstool and McGillin's in Philadelphia in the Center City area. When it gets warmer, Morgan's Pier is also a really good spot.

Echoing what @BackInTheGame78 said, looks do help a lot, but I think your main issue is just not being direct enough about what you want when you approach these women. I think I'm a pretty good-looking guy, but I still deal with a ton of BS and have to go up and talk to the women that I want.

It's really just a numbers game where you're filtering for interest, then it becomes a matter of properly navigating the conversation, looking out for social cues, nonverbals, logistics, etc, and that comes with experience and recognizing your situation because you've been there before.

 

[plumber]

if you started lifting at 145 lbs at 5'11' and added 20 lbs muscle, your on point for being in shape and can get even better. grooming and posture also affect presentation. don't be stinky, don't cross your legs, stuff like that. I assume you trained entire body.

Read "Dale Carnage, How to Win Friends and Influence People" its a good primer for interaction. Its NOT a pick up or red pill book its about how to inject presence to another person in a way they like. Some of it will sound old school... it is.

If your willing check out some local churches (just visit at the assembly time, a few weeks in a row). Dance class, martial arts, anything... literally anything. The point is to inject into places that do not have men like you. You will stand out... And pick up additional skills to bring back to your existing venue. For example, dress like church when you arrive at the gym.... then change to work out.

You got the basics, time to mix it up.

You can't go to a new venue and rule it. But you can bring new skills to your existing places, and also be noticeable in the new venue.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

the issue is that you're 22

it takes time, failure, experience to learn how to be good with women.

outside of naturals who peaked early i don't really think most guys in their early 20s have a fcking clue what they're doing yet. how could they?

 

[Gamisch]

Idk.. 22 imo is a grown man. Definitely old enough to be drafted, to drink and to drive a heavy big azz truck I had my first child 4 years later...been cohabiting before that. 22 is not a puppy. Not saying this to shyte on OP, but realistically his competitors will be men ranging from age 18 to 50 sometimes even 60. His 22 y.o female counterpart can and will date men between 18 and 60 .

Having said that: it's impossible to get an idea about the nitty gritty of his life. The devil is in the details. How does one smile? Behave around women? Do you ooze sexual energy? Do you come across as desperate? Or too aloof?

Are you willing to date down? Feck a fatties? A older woman for practice purposes?


I do agree that he is young BUT he is also in his absolute prime( head full of hair, metabolism working like crazy) you can't reckon that you'll be 32 and everything will magically be better...his time is NOW. I know dudes who are 32 but look like they're 52 because they let themselves go, and that can be physically but also financially, spiritually ect.

 

[Gamisch]

Op, as mentioned before, try to focus on timing. Find at least one like minded homie and go where women are more open to being approached . I believe this is mentioned before.

Summer is around the corner. Save some money so you can go to festivals and parties where women will be more open to talk to strangers . You already hit the gym: great! Perhaps focus a bit on your style so you stand out a bit more.

Be direct. Be bold. Women love boldness. Be unapologetic and remember that rejection is simply part of being a man. Aka embrace rejection to a certain degree. Don't be a creep but don't be a living statue neither...

Fire up a dating app and let it run in the background. If you get like 6 fishes per year your doing fine. Meanwhile be outside have your antennas on sharp mode so you " receive " choosing signals from women because most women will be covertly rather than straightforward. You are the hunter they are the prey.

Be desperate for NOTHING.

 

[Xalfin]

Hey y’all, OP here.

Thanks for all the responses. Here’s where I’m at mentally, based off y’all’s suggestions:

- I already look good enough to get my foot in the door for most interactions, so it’s simply a matter of better capitalizing off those opportunities

- Step 0 for these interactions is communicating interest in a very direct way, i.e. in a way that leaves no room for doubt

- Seeing that I’m already unbothered by rejection from approaching so much, I might as well be bold and completely unapologetic. After all, what’s acting nice and ‘unsexual’ for, other than as a buffer against rejection?

Right now, I’m gonna focus entirely on simply being more sexual, more direct, and more “male” really.

Mini FR (if you can call it that): Yesterday was at the gym doing my thing and I saw a big booty latina hitting the leg press. Was in the zone but I knew it’d distract me if I didn’t go up to her, so I squatted down after her set, shook her hand, and straight up asked her if she had a BF. I know this isn’t the best game, but I wanted to simply practice being more forward. She smiled, said no, and so I told her to give me her number. She started saying she was getting over a breakup or something (I lowkey don’t even know what she said since I had my airpods in). I basically said “ok, bye” and got back to my workout. In hindsight, yeah I probably could’ve (and should’ve) pushed a lil harder since she had pretty open and friendly body language, but oh well.

Anyways, even in this brief interaction, the dynamic was completely different (read: sexual) from my normal approaches that feel more platonic or nebulous. There was actually a lil’ spark, a little fire between us that I never feel in my normal ones.

It seems like I’ve still operating from a nice guy paradigm; I removed the supplication and simping but didn’t add in my raw sexuality. My lack of success makes a lot more sense in this regard; if I’m scared of or uncomfortable with my own sexuality, how can the girl be good with hers? If I’m not making the interaction sexual off rip, how can sex even happen? Hard to **** someone who comes off as an androgynous, de-sexualized being.

The way forward seems pretty clear from here; just be sexual. As I mentioned in the first post, most of my hangups stem from my hyper-religious upbringing, but I know I’ll overcome it.

Thanks y’all.

 

[crowolf]

You are probably doing nothing wrong.

Dating nowadays is doomed. Especially around your 20s, when your SMV is quite low, and girls your age either chase older, more successful guys (around 30-35), or they go for some tall preselected good looking guy from their social circle.

Sure, that doesn't mean you should give up. Just make sure you are growing and becoming better. Women should be put after that.

Or you can go full pickup mode and start going out every day, doing cold approaches, being very sociable, and making sure you show your intent properly, leading and escalating when the opportunity is present.

 

[Slowhandluke]

the ultimate test to see if a 22 year old is attractive: befriend a female that has the reputation of being "open". if she doesn't make a move, then hes not attractive. If she does then, congratulations the 22 year old is attractive (average or better) and it just the environment that the 22 yo needs to change. this test has never failed.

 

[Barrister]

OP,

You are very young. At 22, women should be the last thing on your priority list, but I also remember those days of raging testosterone and thinking the sun rose and set with the hottest chicks in my college and wanting to have sex with them all. So I know that is way easier said than done.

The reality is you have all the time in the world at 22 to bang a lot of chicks. Focus on your studies and getting the best job you can, then you can give more attention to them -- although I would never make them the focus. You will probably find you will naturally meet plenty of women along the way and the more successful you are, the easier this is. It sounds like you are already doing what you need to in approaching women and conversing with them in natural ways. Your biggest risk past this is going to be over-analyzing situations, which I think is probably what you are guilty of. Rejection comes with the cold approach territory for all of us, so the fact you are in a dry spell or only pulling 2 women in 6 months shouldn't influence you. Embrace that and learn to live with it and don't let it affect your confidence.

You're way ahead of 99% of guys at your age just being aware of the things you are and practicing it. Certainly you are ahead of where I was at your age. Keep it up and don't over-think it.