We need to have an intervention about Theory

[CornbreadFed]

You’re lying to yourself if you think they can’t get some. “I personally never saw it so it therefore didn’t happen” is weak. But by all means, feel free to keep your head in the sand if it makes you feel better.

You are lying to yourself if you think your average woman is getting off to these men. These men are more attractive to the male gaze than the female gaze. Therefore, if your goal is to attract women other than bimbos and escorts then these men aren’t the best resource for you.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Because it’s called congruency with your personality

That's fine, UNLESS your personality socks sh-t through a straw. In that case, it's prudent to modify that personality in some ways

 

[Vanderdonck]

Intervention about Theory has turned into circle jerk about Theory.

 

[Solomon]

One problem of today is that 60 %( and I've heard even 73) of men don't date. If it's true or not is up for debate, but regardless of that you will see a reflection of those stats even on sosauve.

I do however sympathise with these men, as I know I've been a part of that stat plenty of time. And will be in the future.

I had sympathy until I read this
I don't feel sorry for any man who isn't even trying, IMO you don't have a reason to complain
When I was 24 years old and came on this site, I was open to learning and whatever I thought I knew, I put it to the back burner, field-tested stuff a lot of **** worked, SOME wasn't even necessary etc. My early post history confirms all this

I worked 2 jobs,70 hours a week, still found time to hit the field every weekend, still dealing with women, spinning plates etc. People think it's a joke but 17 years ago if a guy was whining about women and he didn't have a minimum of 1000 approaches under his belt, guys would tell him STFU and hit the field. Now 1000 approaches no one even talks like that. I came up under that era, where you had to roll up your sleeve and really get it out the mud

I know what you're going to say, times change, but the principles and the core values of being a man and going for what you want haven't​

I had to grind and compete for everything I got. Since I was a kid, I always thought my dad was an ******* (he is) but now that I'm older I realized he was making me tough, this is why a lot of stuff most men complain about doesn't resonate with me. Even in my household, I had to buy my own first car which was a beater; my little sister got to drive the Benz at 16 to school, I was driving a 92 dodge caravan. I had to pay for college myself,(one of the reasons I dropped out was because I didn't want student loans, thank God cause nearly 20 years later my friends are still trying to pay theirs) my sisters got theirs paid for. I never got any breaks so for me it's tough to feel sorry for someone who doesn't try or gives up easily right away. Some men I do feel sorry for but most men aren't even doing the basics.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I know what you're going to say, times change, but the principles and the core values of being a man and going for what you want haven't​

What's changed; As recently as '03 https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/this-place-has-gone-to-shyt.284546/page-9#post-3171154 the mindset which prevailed throughout our culture went something like: "Stereotypes are rampant in society... Towards men, and everything else. We can reduce these stereotypes drastically, by devoting 98% of our energies towards leveling up/encouraging others to do likewise, in the process win converts among those who were previously hostile to us"

The growth of social media made it possible for men and everyone else to create what are essentially ersatz churches, where we endlessly fantasize about how soft and easy life COULD be, if only we could create a Red Pill Utopia, free of all biases and prejudices against men. Same way our ancestors in pasr centuries knelt on the floors of THEIR OWN temples, praying for The Gods to come down from The Cosmos, deliver them from all earthly difficulties

Goes without saying: That hound wasn't an especially effective hunter back in antiquity or The Medieval Era, and it's perhaps even less so, here in modernity

 

[Solomon]

What's changed; As recently as '03 https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/this-place-has-gone-to-shyt.284546/page-9#post-3171154 the mindset which prevailed throughout our culture went something like: "Stereotypes are rampant in society... Towards men, and everything else. We can reduce these stereotypes drastically, by devoting 98% of our energies towards leveling up/encouraging others to do likewise, in the process win converts among those who were previously hostile to us"

The growth of social media made it possible for men and everyone else to create what are essentially ersatz churches, where we endlessly fantasize about how soft and easy life COULD be, if only we could create a Red Pill Utopia, free of all biases and prejudices against men. Same way our ancestors in centuries knelt on the floors of THEIR OWN temples, praying for The Gods to come down from The Cosmos, deliver them from all earthly difficulties

Goes without saying: That hound wasn't an especially effective hunter back in antiquity or The Medieval Era, and it's perhaps even less so, here in modernity

I hear you on the social media echo chambers! No doubt a lot of guys waste their time fantasizing about some Red Pill utopia instead of actually improving themselves. But here’s the thing: men who stand on values and principles have never gone out of style. Life might feel harder now with inflation, social media illusions, and shifting gender dynamics, but the fundamentals of masculinity haven’t changed.

The guys who stay disciplined, build their bodies, stack their money, and carry themselves with respect don’t need to whine for utopia they just win, the same way men have always won. The environment might shift, but the mindset that produces results hasn’t. What’s “soft” today isn’t that the world is tougher(tell that to a squire boy during the end of the Roman Empire!), it’s that too many men look for shortcuts instead of holding the line.​

 

[BaronOfHair]

Life might feel harder now with inflation, social media illusions, and shifting gender dynamics, but the fundamentals of masculinity haven’t changed.

Yeah, materially speaking, our lives today(in most respects, anyway) ARE richer than they were even in The 2000s. SOCIALLY speaking though, our current cultural climate is the most repressive in living memory, second only to The 1950s...

End result of unapologetically pro-male mainstream publications(be they print or online only)being deemed either "problematic"/subsequently falling off into obscurity, or Going Woke I.E
Men's Health and Askmen, from 16-today?

Everything went underground, and the sort of buffoons who'dve been laughed out of the room as recently as The early '10s, for being all talk and little to no action, are now masquerading as heavy weights

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

That's fine, UNLESS your personality socks sh-t through a straw. In that case, it's prudent to modify that personality in some ways

Yeah that’s fair. Most people aren’t neurotic to the point of needing a genuine overhaul, they just need better social skills and general self-improvement/personal development.

Intervention about Theory has turned into circle jerk about Theory.

Preach. That’s what all this is when you get down to it: Another form of social peacocking. You’ve seen it here with OP rallying back to points already addressed earlier. It’s just talk.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Definitely more old school advice from the OGs

That's part of what's gotten us into the bind we find ourselves in today... Starting around late '15 or so, we

-Started pretending that folks like Doc Love, Al Ellis, Neil F. Scott, etc etc hadn't been writing on these subjects for eons

-Created a full-blown religion, then labeled it The Red Pill

-Mistook that for Infallible Truths, which no one in the history of our species had noticed prior

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Carl Jung and the process of individuation.

Every single men should face this. Red Pill theory, sel-fimprovement are focused on external things. This $hit is aimed at your core, brake you and rebuild you. But it is the most painful thing I have ever experienced.

Jung is pretty legit. Problem is that much of his stuff uses highly subjective logic, requiring it to be grasped from that specific perspective or framework in order to genuinely understand it. His concept of the collective unconsciousness clicked with me several months ago, and I’m honestly amazed at how he noted it because he was, in essence, describing a metaphysical phenomenon.

If you go back to before the red pill went mainstream, it actually used to be focused much more on internal development (“inner game”) as opposed to outer. It’s just that movement got diluted by grifters who got big by appealing to the braindead masses of men who don’t care about anything but luxury & getting their D wet. OP went about it in the wrong way, but it’s true that Fresh & Fit, the Tate bros, etc. are more PUA than red pill: They lack a true understanding of true gender dynamics, and say outlandish things to confuse the inarticulate minds—mostly because they were inarticulate themselves.

That's part of what's gotten us into the bind we find ourselves in today... Starting around late '15 or so, we

-Started pretending that folks like Doc Love, Al Ellis, Neil F. Scott, etc etc hadn't been writing on these subjects for eons

-Created a full-blown religion, then labeled it The Red Pill

-Mistook that for Infallible Truths, which no one in the history of our species had noticed prior

This stuff had always existed but not to the degree nor level of complexity that we’re at today, hence why it became an outright praxeology and cognitive paradigm.

 

[BaronOfHair]

This stuff had always existed but not to the degree nor level of complexity...

Yeah, like Intersectionalists, large segments of The Manosphere are desperate to SEEM and SOUND a lot smarter than they are

 

[BaronOfHair]

Now, why has theory gotten bad

1) Focuses too much on the male gaze rather than the female gaze - If you actually interacted with women, you would realize that the ideal man celebrated by the manosphere does not align with the female gaze. I have NEVER heard a girl say she has a crush on Fitxfearless, Andrew Tate, Austin Dunham, Rollo Tomasi, Myron Gaines, etc

Most Red Pill Theology is akin to MMA

True Believers in both assert that what works in The Cage/On social media is entirely transferable to real life, and in SOME cases, there's truth to that

In far too many instances though, trying to build a stronger social network by communicating exclusively in Manosphere claptrap makes less sense than taking someone to the ground in a back alley littered with syringes and broken glass, even as 12 of your opponent's fellow gang bangers are hanging around, waiting for an opening to stomp you into the ground