We need to have an intervention about Theory

[SW15]

The game actually is supposed to get easier as you get older or have more experience. It's like working out, when you first start, you may be sore you may not even lift properly cause you're form is off, however if you're consistent, hitting the gym 3-5 days a week. You should have a far better shape then when you first started because of your consistiency and knowledge that you aquire about excerise and diet etc.. IMO the same is true with seduction. If you're actively talking to women, pursuing women, trying to date women etc. Eventually you should become better especially if you're also working on other things to help your dating/mating prospects.

This can be true based on how 'game aware' the individual male becomes as life progresses. In practice, I do not see this happening that much with men seeking interactions and relationships with women. The majority of men are beta males with limited game awareness but even men with advanced game awareness aren't often having amazing outcomes in their 30s and 40s.

The typical unattached guy in his 30s/40s is a pussie beggar who settles for whatever woman he can get near his own age. That doesn't sound like someone experiencing a value increase. I think the better way to describe what happens to men is that his value decreases more slowly than a woman's value. Many of the men I just described are men with blue pill ideologies who never watch YouTube content about seduction, who don't read books like The Rational Male or The Unplugged Alpha, and who are not using SoSuave or similar forums.

Earlier in life (ages 15-24), the mating game can be tough with only limited experience. Some men can ride their status (high school or college athlete) to above average pussie for a time. There was once one active poster here who played small time college football and had a cheerleader girlfriend while in college but had struggled post-college with getting pussie and keeping pussie. Physique can be at peak around this time too. Other aspects of game, including the metaphysical ones, are not near peak at ages 15-24.

For me I'm more impressed with a guy who is in an LTR or married. I know this may seem like a contradiction to most on a seduction forum but IMO if you've been on the forum for 5+ years and still struggling to get sex or talk to women. You are either not taken action, or have to work on things that hinder you. There are some members who actually have regressed and their issue isn't women at all but they need some deep psychological help. Most guys who do take action will improve and over the years we have known this to be true cause members end up in LTR's will come back once it ends or they will end up married etc.

This is an interesting point of view.

Being impressed with a man in an LTR or a married man depends on the quality of their relationship.

The majority of married men are not in a good place in their relationship at a given point in time. The majority of longer term married men are getting minimal sex from their wives and lack freedom in their personal lives. Longer term married men also tend to have younger children. The years when the children are infants, toddlers, and in elementary school are brutal on a sex life and all aspects of a romantic relationships. The husband and wife lose their connection in the whole process of doing child raising activities. They become more like roommates with a shared purpose than lovers. These years often damage the relationship to the point that one or both partners wish to exit. It's common for the divorce filing to happen by the time the oldest child ends 8th grade (usually age 14).

Some blue pill ideology men are better at retaining women for longer than red pill men ideology men. While the duration of a blue pill man's relationships might be longer, the quality of that time isn't better.

The best years of an LTR are usually the earlier years of the LTR. The best times of the LTR are once a couple passes the early stages (pre-sex) and determine exclusivity. I think these best times often happen between 6 months - 2 years into the relationship. The relationship can still be in a good place from year 2 to year 5. After the 5th anniversary (since the first date, not the wedding date), the relationship is some sort of decline. The marriage proposal often happens somewhere between the 1st anniversary and the 3rd anniversary. The wedding day is usually around the 2nd anniversary to 4th anniversary. It's less common to get to a 5th anniversary without a wedding or an engagement.

 

[Barrister]

There are too many sexually unattractive men spreading nonsense, and it's gotten out of hand.

New Rule: You shouldn’t be allowed to discuss theories or "Alpha male" nonsense unless you’ve confidently reached a point where you never go longer than a month without sex unless by choice. Otherwise, you’re not sexually attractive to women and should focus on more productive pursuits. In a relationship or hopping from one partner to another? Fine, but if you broke up with your partner right now, you should feel confident in finding someone new within a month.

Now, why has theory gotten bad

1) Focuses too much on the male gaze rather than the female gaze - If you actually interacted with women, you would realize that the ideal man celebrated by the manosphere does not align with the female gaze. I have NEVER heard a girl say she has a crush on Fitxfearless, Andrew Tate, Austin Dunham, Rollo Tomasi, Myron Gaines, etc.

2). It brainwashes men to not take action- Jeff finds a coworker attractive and decides to ask her out on a date to Chili's. They go, have a great time, and eventually start dating...simple as that. But then come the "theory police" with all their rules: Jeff can’t take her to Chili's because it’s not impressive enough, he can only see her on specific days to show his value, and he shouldn’t confirm the date because it’s considered weak. Plus, what if she goes to someone else’s house after the date, or reports him to HR? The overthinking is endless! All Jeff really needs to do is set a time and place, be confident, and be likeable. It’s straightforward, she’ll either like him or she won’t!

3). Obsession with hypergamy - Your average woman isn't spending 95% of her free time and mental energy chasing after some Chad. I see animals avoiding moving vehicles all the time because they don't want to die. According to this perspective, women are supposedly willing to risk everything for a chance with a Chad. If that's the case, maybe her current situation wasn't that great to begin with?

The whole Alpha and Beta male stuff or Neolithic analogies- nobody cares about that outside the internet. When women meet you, they’re focused on whether you meet their basic standards for attractiveness, if you’re compatible with their life, and whether you’re enjoyable to be around or just plain creepy. That’s it! If every woman only wanted an Alpha male, the world would be in chaos since there simply aren’t enough Alpha males for everyone to reproduce with.

Good post, Corn.

I will push back slightly here and will say that some of what is out there is really helpful to some men who are blue pill and don't actually realize at all what is going on around them. Yes, too much theory and over-thinking are problems, but you have the opposite extreme where you have men who have been completely brainwashed by society to think women are all damsels in distress and need to be protected at all costs -- all while those same women are preying on those men simultaneously both for validation and $$. Those men develop Stockholm Syndrome and defend the very women leeching off of them. It is very real and pathetic and sad all at once. Those men can use some theory and explanation of what is going on around them.

I read Rational Male a long time ago and I remember thinking Rolo made a lot of great points about female nature. I think it is helpful to be aware of the Red Pill ideas, but you can certainly hurt yourself by trying to "check off boxes" and making sure you always follow some formula. So much of chemistry with females comes from being spontaneous and giving them tingles. You don't get there sticking to a simple recipe.

 

[Clockwerk50]

You can’t help yourself.

Are you a troll?

No.

 

[Solomon]

This can be true based on how 'game aware' the individual male becomes as life progresses. In practice, I do not see this happening that much with men seeking interactions and relationships with women. The majority of men are beta males with limited game awareness but even men with advanced game awareness aren't often having amazing outcomes in their 30s and 40s.

The typical unattached guy in his 30s/40s is a pussie beggar who settles for whatever woman he can get near his own age. That doesn't sound like someone experiencing a value increase. I think the better way to describe what happens to men is that his value decreases more slowly than a woman's value. Many of the men I just described are men with blue pill ideologies who never watch YouTube content about seduction, who don't read books like The Rational Male or The Unplugged Alpha, and who are not using SoSuave or similar forums.

Earlier in life (ages 15-24), the mating game can be tough with only limited experience. Some men can ride their status (high school or college athlete) to above average pussie for a time. There was once one active poster here who played small time college football and had a cheerleader girlfriend while in college but had struggled post-college with getting pussie and keeping pussie. Physique can be at peak around this time too. Other aspects of game, including the metaphysical ones, are not near peak at ages 15-24.

You're just proving my point, most men do not take action to get the women they want, hence they have to settle for what they can get. Since the beginning of time 40-70% of men will never reproduce. Life is about survival of the fittest since the dawn of time if a man want's the best of the best i.e. lifestyle, job, food, housing and yes women. A man has to compete.

As you get older you should be more confident, understand certain patterns exist when it comes to women and have a mindset to adapt. Most people do not have this, and hence they are where they are. Life is about continuously learning and adapting. Times change, mating strategies change etc.

If you have been on sosuave for 5+ years and struggle with women, the problem isn't women, it's you. Stop giving lazy people passes for being lazy. You got one member here complaining about women every day and posting lame red pill videos, another member who pays for OnlyFans, another member talking to chatgpt etc. The world belongs to those willing to get what they want by any means, whether you like it or not.

If you as a man didn't build a foundation for success in your 20s-40s that is your fault. No one is going to hold your hand and lead you to *****. It'is what it is

This is an interesting point of view.

Being impressed with a man in an LTR or a married man depends on the quality of their relationship.

The majority of married men are not in a good place in their relationship at a given point in time. The majority of longer term married men are getting minimal sex from their wives and lack freedom in their personal lives. Longer term married men also tend to have younger children. The years when the children are infants, toddlers, and in elementary school are brutal on a sex life and all aspects of a romantic relationships. The husband and wife lose their connection in the whole process of doing child raising activities. They become more like roommates with a shared purpose than lovers. These years often damage the relationship to the point that one or both partners wish to exit. It's common for the divorce filing to happen by the time the oldest child ends 8th grade (usually age 14).

Some blue pill ideology men are better at retaining women for longer than red pill men ideology men. While the duration of a blue pill man's relationships might be longer, the quality of that time isn't better.

The best years of an LTR are usually the earlier years of the LTR. The best times of the LTR are once a couple passes the early stages (pre-sex) and determine exclusivity. I think these best times often happen between 6 months - 2 years into the relationship. The relationship can still be in a good place from year 2 to year 5. After the 5th anniversary (since the first date, not the wedding date), the relationship is some sort of decline. The marriage proposal often happens somewhere between the 1st anniversary and the 3rd anniversary. The wedding day is usually around the 2nd anniversary to 4th anniversary. It's less common to get to a 5th anniversary without a wedding or an engagement.

You are correct but this is the problem and this is why posting on this forum can be tiring of course I'm talking about a happy relationship any one of us on here could get in an LTR with a insufferable wench and be miserable. Silly that I have to clarify this but fine, "Happy LTR or Happy marriage"
,
Regardless society is breaking down, whether you like marriages or not, nothing will change until men take control and start to lead until then here we are

 

[BaronOfHair]

A man has to compete.

Today, any man in The Post-Industrial West who so much as makes the proverbial EFFORT is ahead of 98% of his brethren. Reminds me of the following https://www.artofmanliness.com/char...hristianitys-manhood-problem-an-introduction/

Quote: "Among the men who are in attendance, you’ll probably notice a couple of characteristics: First, many of the men who are there will be present in body only; you won’t see them singing and they’ll be paying more attention to their phones than the pastor"

As has been noted previously https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/this-place-has-gone-to-shyt.284546/page-4#post-3167773 , The Red Pill's essentially become a religion, and large sections of The Manosphere are standing in for church... Most fellas have F&F, one of Tommassi's 3 hour podcasts on, while they're engaged in another activity


"Second, you’ll observe that the majority of the males adhere to a certain type: white collar, sensitive-seeming, and unfit (either very thin or overweight) — fellows you’d categorize as “nice guys.” You’ll see only a few men who seem to work with their hands, or who you’d describe as athletic, virile, earthy, tough, or rugged"

The same is true of most fellas today, whether they're hardcore devotees of Red Pill Thought, or among the increasingly few adherents of traditional Christianity

We're all tenaciously clinging to the delusion that reciting creeds alone will bring us justice and prosperity

 

[Gamisch]

You're just proving my point, most men do not take action to get the women they want, hence they have to settle for what they can get. Since the beginning of time 40-70% of men will never reproduce. Life is about survival of the fittest since the dawn of time if a man want's the best of the best i.e. lifestyle, job, food, housing and yes women. A man has to compete.

As you get older you should be more confident, understand certain patterns exist when it comes to women and have a mindset to adapt. Most people do not have this, and hence they are where they are. Life is about continuously learning and adapting. Times change, mating strategies change etc.

If you have been on sosuave for 5+ years and struggle with women, the problem isn't women, it's you. Stop giving lazy people passes for being lazy. You got one member here complaining about women every day and posting lame red pill videos, another member who pays for OnlyFans, another member talking to chatgpt etc. The world belongs to those willing to get what they want by any means, whether you like it or not.

If you as a man didn't build a foundation for success in your 20s-40s that is your fault. No one is going to hold your hand and lead you to *****. It'is what it is



You are correct but this is the problem and this is why posting on this forum can be tiring of course I'm talking about a happy relationship any one of us on here could get in an LTR with a insufferable wench and be miserable. Silly that I have to clarify this but fine, "Happy LTR or Happy marriage"
,
Regardless society is breaking down, whether you like marriages or not, nothing will change until men take control and start to lead until then here we are

One problem of today is that 60 %( and I've heard even 73) of men don't date. If it's true or not is up for debate, but regardless of that you will see a reflection of those stats even on sosauve.

I do however sympathise with these men, as I know I've been a part of that stat plenty of time. And will be in the future.

 

[MatureDJ]

Since the beginning of time 40-70% of men will never reproduce.

It's genetically OVER for 70%Cels.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

I have NEVER heard a girl say she has a crush on Fitxfearless, Andrew Tate, Austin Dunham, Rollo Tomasi, Myron Gaines, etc.

I’m not even gonna read the rest of your post. I’ll just to respond to this:

Women will NEVER admit to being attracted to these men, and using it as an argument shows you don’t understand women. Firstly, it would be terrible for their reputation as a woman. Secondly, women like to reject guys far above them as a pre-disqualification tactic. It’s to protect their fragile egos from being hurt since they recognize that they might get rejected from men of status far above their own. Plus, it’s a way to delude themselves into believing they’re “above” those men because they’re the ones who technically rejected first. Yawn.

Thirdly, women like men who are attractive as a state of being, not as something contrived or calculated to emulate. It’s why they say “just be yourself”, because they want a man who’s a hotshot stud without “trying”. He just “is”, if that makes sense. And if it doesn’t, then you aren’t him.

 

[Solomon]

If you're a broke guy hypergamy should be the least of your worries stock market crash by 9/23/2025 is what you should be worried about and buying more XRP

 

[CornbreadFed]

Women will NEVER admit to being attracted to these men, and using it as an argument shows you don’t understand women. Firstly, it would be terrible for their reputation as a woman. Secondly, women like to reject guys far above them as a pre-disqualification tactic. It’s to protect their fragile egos from being hurt since they recognize that they might get rejected from men of status far above their own. Plus, it’s a way to delude themselves into believing they’re “above” those men because they’re the ones who technically rejected first. Yawn.

You are just saying the typical Ad Hoc claim they pull out of their behind. Women will never admit to being attracted to these men. Okay, but I don't see them dating these men? Well, it is because they are with these men behind closed doors, so you cannot actually see them. Sure! I interact with women and none of them are chasing after red pill superstars during or after daylight. If they do it is because they got tricked because they were desperate and they usually ghost the guy immediately. You are better off admitting you are bisexual than saying you are a fan of Andrew Tate. Yes, it's that bad lol. Yes, women go after guys you would perceive as jerks, but these jerks are not red pilled at all and would be considered beta/simps by the red pill community.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I have NEVER heard a girl say she has a crush on Fitxfearless, Andrew Tate, Austin Dunham, Rollo Tomasi, Myron Gaines, etc

I know a woman who has a crush for Rollo.

I’m sure Austin Dunham and FitX get enough female attention. Andrew Tate will never be womanless.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Self improvement its not for women you fvcking retard. Men don't need to become whatever bull$hit female want, a man has to be come himself, whole, grounded, then a female will become what he wants.

You got everyhting wrong

Then why are you on a dating forum? Why are all these self-improvement gurus obsessed with women behavior?

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Listen guys. I agree with the OP to a great degree.

There are theorists here who do not have any kind of practical advice, there are people who post inane videos and articles about "OMG can you even BELIEVE this harrigan's expectations...." there are posters bloviating about assumptions based on generation and gender, there are people starting countless threads a day asking rhetorical BS questions, and these threads drown out two kinds of high priority content.....

1. The actual legit question a guy has about his particular situation (my suggestion is also to use the "Search" function of this site....most questions have come up before and are not that unique....make an effort to see what advice was given before now on your particular issue.....there is some great stuff in posts from past members on so many questions).

2. Offer advice if you have enough experience to actually give sound advice.

If you never were a parent you cannot thoroughly understand the context of parenting; don't give advice on parenting. If you've never been married you cannot relate to or understand that level of legally binding committment; don't offer advice on marriage.

You see a man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with a theory. And theory does not help, it just creates undue noise, and makes the salient advice harder to reach.

Another thing. Many readers in the audience here lurk and may not even be members but they consume content nevertheless. Huge silent majority I'd say.

But if you want to know if an individual poster is legit? Go read their content. Is who they are (their story) consistent over time? Is the POV consistent? Do they cite examples from their own experiences (versus spouting theory)? Do they have a helpful attitude if they are advising - do they acknowledge/accept advice if they have a question? Are the comments typically situationally appropriate over time? Are they developing, improving, and then posting based on that growth and experience?

A reasonably intelligent reader can figure that out.

And let's just get past the whole female thing. I am not a man and do not have a man's physiology or psyche. But as I female I have been on the recieving end of "the game" for decades, and have been a socially adroit person who is active in nightlife and going out for decades. So while I cannot and do not speak for all women, I can offer a window into the female psyche that I hope offers perspective.

Some of y'all are WAY too enmeshed in endlessly theorizing and Chicken Little sky is falling rhetoric. You need to leave your computer and go interact with real humans in real life.

At the end of the day only your individual experience matters. Go get some experience. You are a person, not a statistic.

We will be here when you get back.

 

[BaronOfHair]

It’s why they say “just be yourself”, because they want a man who’s a hotshot stud without “trying”

And, for as long as that adage has been circulating, men have been buying into it, and walking home either empty handed or with table scraps. We don't hesitate to behave differently around the office, modify the way we approach work(I.E. Become something different than our current self), when we want to get ahead in our careers

I remain baffled as to why any of us persist in believing that dating and mating is any different

 

[Manure Spherian]

And, for as long as that adage has been circulating, men have been buying into it, and walking home either empty handed or with table scraps. We don't hesitate to behave differently around the office, modify the way we approach work(I.E. Become something different than our current self), when we want to get ahead in our careers

I remain baffled as to why any of us persist in believing that dating and mating is any different

I “was myself” with every woman I’ve attracted.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I “was myself” with every woman I’ve attracted.

So much so, you put that in quotation marks

 

[Divorced w 3]

Self improvement its not for women you fvcking retard. Men don't need to become whatever bull$hit female want, a man has to be come himself, whole, grounded, then a female will become what he wants.

You got everyhting wrong

If this persona is whatever you consider to be your best self, just relentless nasty, useless comments and countless time wasted arguing with others, you have a long, uphill life in front of you.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Why are all these self-improvement gurus obsessed with women behavior?

Same reason devout Intersectionalists expend 98% of their energy on finger wagging at pasty-complexioned folks of Western European ancestry, yet rarely discuss equipping those who are in need with the proficiencies necessary for them to start helping themselves...

The former is easy, the latter is tough, therefore both card-carrying Intersectionalists and The Generically Red-Pilled assiduously avoid questions such as: "What are some concrete, tangible strategies for uplifting those we claim to care about?"

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

You are just saying the typical Ad Hoc claim they pull out of their behind. Women will never admit to being attracted to these men. Okay, but I don't see them dating these men? Well, it is because they are with these men behind closed doors, so you cannot actually see them. Sure! I interact with women and none of them are chasing after red pill superstars during or after daylight. If they do it is because they got tricked because they were desperate and they usually ghost the guy immediately. You are better off admitting you are bisexual than saying you are a fan of Andrew Tate. Yes, it's that bad lol. Yes, women go after guys you would perceive as jerks, but these jerks are not red pilled at all and would be considered beta/simps by the red pill community.

I barely understood what you said cuz I didn’t care to read it closely enough but you gotta stop the bravado yourself buddy. I’m not a fan of any one of them, but I’m not gonna sit here and act like they’re all incels who don’t know anything. Tate used to be a pimp, Myron’s shown screenshots over drama that came from the fallout of false rape accusation, Rollo used to be in a band, and Austin is literally a fitness influencer/model. You’re lying to yourself if you think they can’t get some. “I personally never saw it so it therefore didn’t happen” is weak. But by all means, feel free to keep your head in the sand if it makes you feel better.

And, for as long as that adage has been circulating, men have been buying into it, and walking home either empty handed or with table scraps. We don't hesitate to behave differently around the office, modify the way we approach work(I.E. Become something different than our current self), when we want to get ahead in our careers

I remain baffled as to why any of us persist in believing that dating and mating is any different

Because it’s called congruency with your personality.

Women can sniff an inauthentic poser a mile away. There’s a reason why self-improvement urges men to be the best version of themselves, rather than pretend to be someone you’re not. The reality is that all this stuff with game, masculinity, and social skills exists inside every man—you just need to bring it out of you.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Self improvement its not for women you fvcking retard. Men don't need to become whatever bull$hit female want, a man has to be come himself, whole, grounded, then a female will become what he wants.

You got everyhting wrong

Forgotten wisdom in here. Definitely more old school advice from the OGs.

Part of the idiocy comes from women as a strata becoming so crappy forcing men to become hypersuccessful just to get sloppy seconds, which ends up conflating self-improvement to better yourself with self-improvement get women. Basically, it became about improvement without personal development.

Another reason is the fact that the economy is in the gutter lol. Ironically enough, it’s caused women to give up the strong independent career woman nonsense in favor of playing house as a (faux) tradwife.