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AttackFormation

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Very few. The last one I dated was the closest thing. She got cancer though, and ended the relationship.

When I say "loyal" I am not referring to fidelity as much as I am commitment to the man/relationship.

I mean when the going gets tough, they bail. Hence the 70% of divorces initiated by women IF they have the ability to still extract the man's resources.

In the end, when the chips are down......women will ALWAYS do what is best for them, and fvck you, fvck your needs, fvck the time invested. Take that to the bank.
I will accept this with one caveat: if her self-esteem is low enough/dysfunction high enough, she will both be drawn to and stick it out with garbage men in bad situations. I've seen it myself with my own mother. If women ALWAYS do what is best for them like mercenaries, then I can't explain why she got together with her second husband in the first place let alone had a kid with him and stayed, separated, and then got back together.

Funny that it's her own dysfunction that caused the "loyalty". Although she has told me she wants to separate anew now, she still has that history and is still with him (although taking out her frustration through viciously berating him every day last time I knew).
 
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derby1

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She got pretty defensive by this and told me her parents were miserable together when they got divorced they got along and her childhood was better for it.
another predictable phrase women use , usually about their own scenario, to avoid accountability
 

AttackFormation

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another predictable phrase women use , usually about their own scenario, to avoid accountability
Suggesting that women are accountable for their mating choices would probably get you called a misogynist.

I'm willing to bet that aside from those few single moms whose husbands died or developed some mental disorder later on, you can explain most single moms as a result of them themselves being dysfunctional and drawn to dysfunctional men. Just like when Erin Pizzey, the woman who started the first womens' domestic violence shelter in the world, was turned on by the feminists with death threats and boycotts when she discovered and published that the women themselves were equally dysfunctional and most were equally violent. Look it up.
 

Lynx nkaf

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Reading Civilization and it's Discontents by Freud can help us understand a little bit.

Also, Ignorance as Buddha says... the root of all suffering, can contribute to that.

Look at social media, and we can understand why we have those graphics. Why people don't get married and why tons of young women getting pregnant.

The more Ignorant we become, the more we destroy ourselves and everything around.

A child health is influenced by parents and society. My parents raised me together, but also I had suffered from narcissist abuse from my dad. It also created some traumas and the only thing I can do now is try to solve most I can to don't spread the negative outcomes it can generate on me, based on my traumas.

The more I open my eyes, the less I harm people.

What are the main needs of people nowadays? Not everyone, but maybe most of them.

- Getting famous, desired by others.
- Getting validation on social media.
- Post stupid videos to get likes, followers and sexual interactions.
- Take advantage of the other to earn money, whatever the cost.

As we are stopping to ask some main questions about life: "What are our mission here? What do I want to do to contribute to this Existence?"... We stop to evolve.

Here in Brazil I see a lot of women posting videos showing their asses, dancing brazilian funk music. People make those so called "artists" rich, and all they do is create songs about sex and how women are *****s... And people love it, they pay for it and they spend money with it.

But ask those if any of them ever listened to Chopin, Tartini, Paganini, Tchaikovsky for example... They will say this is horrible.

When we try to avoid pain, as it seems people are trying to do desperately, we only create more pain. We all suffer, but we found a lot of ways to mask that.

Four Noble Truths from Buddha:

1. life is full of suffering
2. suffering is caused by desire
3. to end suffering one must end desire
4. follow the eight fold path to reach enlightenment

It's not about never desiring, it's how we are attached with this desire.

Also I don't see this Enlightenment as Perfection, but a better understanding of life, ourselves and others.

And it's all necessary for our evolution... Maybe all those crazy things have to happen in the World so someday we can become more Aware and build a better and healthy society.
Paganini violin is hyper talented.
Tchaikovski music fits everywhere and in every scenario-it's so pleasant.
Chopin piano is good. Have you heard of Russian Denis Matsuev? Incredible.
First I heard of Tartini-thanks!
 

Alvafe

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I will accept this with one caveat: if her self-esteem is low enough/dysfunction high enough, she will both be drawn to and stick it out with garbage men in bad situations. I've seen it myself with my own mother. If women ALWAYS do what is best for them like mercenaries, then I can't explain why she got together with her second husband in the first place let alone had a kid with him and stayed, separated, and then got back together.

Funny that it's her own dysfunction that caused the "loyalty". Although she has told me she wants to separate anew now, she still has that history and is still with him (although taking out her frustration through viciously berating him every day last time I knew).

more likely she is addicted to the feeling, woman ARE mercenary, but that would be only if she was a logical being, with woman is not, woman will ignore everything if her feelings tell her so, hence why some woman will drop they family for a men, even if he is a poor and she is from a rich family, because her feelings will make it so, hence why there is not loyalty, and they petty atitude, when they feeling change, they will blame you and will amke you pay, going for killing her and your kids to divorce rape you
 

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Blacksheep

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Paganini violin is hyper talented.
Tchaikovski music fits everywhere and in every scenario-it's so pleasant.
Chopin piano is good. Have you heard of Russian Denis Matsuev? Incredible.
First I heard of Tartini-thanks!
You're welcome! Gonna check that Russian composer, never heard about it! Thanks too! =)

Tartini has one of the most complex songs composed, search for "Devil's Trill Sonata" and also read the history behind it. He had a dream where devil comes to him and played this complex sonata with a violin. He found so beautiful that when he woke up he wrote it, but never acomplished the same complexity than what he heard on his dream. As the title and history seems crazy, but this song is amazing... 16 minutes of pure art.
 
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ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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@AttackFormation

It’s because of the shift to an individualistic culture over a collectivistic one. Things like feminism and birth control compounded the effects of this shift, but they themselves were not the main causes of it. They were, if anything, just a byproduct that fed into it rather than the drivers of it.

When we started promoting individualism over collectivism, we were basically saying to only care about yourself and no one else. This wasn’t stated outright, but was more so a side effect of saying things like “just be yourself and people will like you for who you are”, “you shouldn’t have to change yourself for anyone, the right person will come along and find you”, “get rid of the toxic people around you, you don't need that type of negativity in your life”, etc. Phrases like these created a sort of selfish mentality whereby everyone thinks everything is all about themselves. Because of this, we all began to believe we don’t have to compromise on anything in relationships anymore, and that we should just discard people from our lives at the slightest bit of discomfort or boredom. In essence, we used individualism as a way to justify narcissism, and that same narcissism bled into our daily social interactions and relationships (which is at least part of the reason why we are now socially handicapped, too).

Furthermore, you have birth control coming out and abortion being legalized. This spread sexual immorality/promiscuity like no other because it meant that women no longer had to worry about who they had sex with since there were no more real consequences for their actions anymore (aside from social disdain and possibly STDs). This greatly lowered female accountability because there was simply less to be accountable for. In addition, feminism was still a relatively new during this era (60s through the 80s) and wasn't completely mainstream yet, meaning that feminism was taking over and infecting the minds' of women as a new trend while old customs relating to taking care of women (see: women-are-wonderful effect) remained. This double-whammy intensified women's lack of accountability, and as these were events were female-centered, it only magnified it more.

I think it's also worth mentioning something else as well: women conform to social pressure more easily than men, particularly when there are others around (just google this; or this instead). And since feminism is a social movement, women are more prone to accepting and conforming to its ideologies simply because it they are more prone to social influence, and thus social movements as a whole. That's why men and women differ a little bit on the Big 5 Personality traits, as women rank higher in agreeableness. You can even notice this in your everyday life too, really.

Another thing was the increasing prominence of televisions. Media has a very powerful effect on society's views, and with the rise of entertainment media presenting an over-idealized form of society, people began to believe this is how social interactions should be like/are. The advancing of technology as a whole did this really, as it made us less social overall (hence my response in your other thread). And because we became less social, we became even more prone to believing the over-idealized form of social interactions. Plus, since the media only represents what the current social and cultural paradigms of society are (i.e. individualism being greater than collectivism), it only exacerbated the issue at hand, which was the massive increase in social narcissism that I mentioned previously that created this whole mess in the first place.

By the way, it's important to note that this favoring individualism over collectivism is also one of the causes for the increase in mental illness that began occurring after that era, especially depression and anxiety. If you try asking around, you'll find people saying that it's simply because psychology was a new concept that was coming out and that there was a negative social stigma attached to mental illness. Don't believe that. While it is true that many people held negative attitudes towards it (mostly older folks who associated it with insanity), they fail to realize that the reason why psychology became more prominent at this time period is because of the need for it. In addition, the single most important factor affecting mental illness is social support. Collectivism already has that social support system built into it simply by nature of being collectivistic, and so when we left collectivism, we left that social support system behind as well, which made us that much more prone to having mental illness. We became less group-oriented and thus less social overall. This increased neuroticism and made us even more difficult to deal with. And remember when I said women conform to social pressure more readily than men? Yeah, that also means that women are disproportionately affected by this too, meaning that women are more affected by this change than men and that the lack of social support is affecting them more than men, thus making women more neurotic than men and harder to deal with than men. We also have data to back this up (The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness states that women have steadily become less and less happy over time while men have remained the same; women are almost twice as likely to have depression compared to men; women are almost twice as likely to have anxiety than men). We also find that unsurprisingly, women are more neurotic than men.

And lastly, no-fault divorce. This one is self-explanatory really; it further exacerbates the lack of female accountability. Women initiate divorces much more often than men do. They will cheat on a man, file for divorce, get a huge lump some of alimony, get further spousal support for life, the home, the cars, his business, and the man is forced to pay child support for kids who aren't even his. If he doesn't like it, he goes to prison. Lawyers, and the court system in general, screw over men and have been for a long, long time. They always favored the woman, but especially so now. Men are just now waking up to it, hence the plummeting marriage rates. TV dramas like Two and a Half Men where one character gets divorced do wake men up to the fact that men always get the raw end of the deal, and also make very apparent that marriage counseling does NOT work and always favors the woman as well. Most men don't even know about prenups, and the ones that do also know about its shortcomings in that it can essentially just be thrown out if the judge doesn't want it, which is very likely to happen due to the women-are-wonderful effect and the courts just generally favoring women.

As for why black people in the US were disproportionately affected by this, it's because they were explicitly targeted by politicians. As you already know, Lyndon B. Johnson was *actually* a racist piece of **** who sought to destroy the black community. He also wanted the Dems to have more power, and so he created the welfare state in order to keep the black vote. Hence his quote(s):

54E3A4CB-8206-4239-A6A0-4307E772456F.jpeg

The thing is with the welfare state, it basically says “we will take care of you and your child, you just need to make sure that you aren’t married”. It provides a safety net to prevent homeless and starving children, but it also made people irresponsible because of that. And over the course of generations, the common sense that was previously had by those before us is now gone. The welfare state is now starting to affect other groups of people as well though, unfortunately.

~~~~

Championing individualism as superior to collectivism meant that it was less about "us" and more about "me"; less about doing what's good for the family as a whole, and more about what's best for me alone; less about "our" kids, and more about "my" kids. All of these things play a factor for the breakdown of the family unit, but by and large the biggest factor was the change from collectivism to individualism because that is what allowed everything else to even have a negative impact on us in the first place. The other things just added fuel to the fire. When you take a look at everything that I just said, you find that it's all just one giant feedback loop where everything is amplifying the effects of everything else over and over and over again. That's why marriage is going down the drain right now, and it's also why there are currently so many problems in society. It all stems from here, from what happened in the 60s and onwards.
 

SW15

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I'm definitely a believer in two parent households. Not all 2 parent households are created equal.

There was a very unhealthy dynamic in my parents' home growing up. They stayed together for the majority of my childhood, calling it quits when I was a sophomore in high school. My parents' marriage was never healthy, and it's unfortunate that they brought a child into the world in a marriage that was not equipped for it. This was a relationship that should never have progressed to a marriage. Even if it did progress to a marriage, it was the kind of marriage that should have fallen apart after 2-4 years and without children.

Given the backdrop of the environment in which I was raised, and some other unfortunate decisions that my parents made, I developed a fairly negatively skewed viewpoint towards marriage and children.

When examining broader trends outside of my own upbringing, I realized that the probability of me forming a family and staying with the same woman until the children were grown seemed like a remote possibility. When I am positively predisposed towards extended romantic relationships, I believe all romantic relationships are transient. They rarely have a shelf life of being good beyond 5 years. I would stay in a quality relationship beyond 5 years. Many relationships that last longer than 5 years run into problems, even if they continue to exist. Inertia and a desire not to start over with dating become primary factors keeping it together, instead of passion for the other person. That's bad. Sometimes, that leads to affairs and divorces. I think going beyond 5 years raises the risks of affairs, divorces (if married), and boredom/inertia.

You can't have a healthy society in a mating environment where relationships are inherently unstable. I think we have a mating environment of instability. There's a justification of opting out of having children. Too few children causes social problems. Raising children without a stable two parent environment also causes problems.

I've taken the no marriage and no children, and there will be consequences for me on a micro level throughout my life.
 

Lynx nkaf

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@AttackFormation

It’s because of the shift to an individualistic culture over a collectivistic one. Things like feminism and birth control compounded the effects of this shift, but they themselves were not the main causes of it. They were, if anything, just a byproduct that fed into it rather than the drivers of it.

When we started promoting individualism over collectivism, we were basically saying to only care about yourself and no one else. This wasn’t stated outright, but was more so a side effect of saying things like “just be yourself and people will like you for who you are”, “you shouldn’t have to change yourself for anyone, the right person will come along and find you”, “get rid of the toxic people around you, you don't need that type of negativity in your life”, etc. Phrases like these created a sort of selfish mentality whereby everyone thinks everything is all about themselves. Because of this, we all began to believe we don’t have to compromise on anything in relationships anymore, and that we should just discard people from our lives at the slightest bit of discomfort or boredom. In essence, we used individualism as a way to justify narcissism, and that same narcissism bled into our daily social interactions and relationships (which is at least part of the reason why we are now socially handicapped, too).

Furthermore, you have birth control coming out and abortion being legalized. This spread sexual immorality/promiscuity like no other because it meant that women no longer had to worry about who they had sex with since there were no more real consequences for their actions anymore (aside from social disdain and possibly STDs). This greatly lowered female accountability because there was simply less to be accountable for. In addition, feminism was still a relatively new during this era (60s through the 80s) and wasn't completely mainstream yet, meaning that feminism was taking over and infecting the minds' of women as a new trend while old customs relating to taking care of women (see: women-are-wonderful effect) remained. This double-whammy intensified women's lack of accountability, and as these were events were female-centered, it only magnified it more.

I think it's also worth mentioning something else as well: women conform to social pressure more easily than men, particularly when there are others around (just google this; or this instead). And since feminism is a social movement, women are more prone to accepting and conforming to its ideologies simply because it they are more prone to social influence, and thus social movements as a whole. That's why men and women differ a little bit on the Big 5 Personality traits, as women rank higher in agreeableness. You can even notice this in your everyday life too, really.

Another thing was the increasing prominence of televisions. Media has a very powerful effect on society's views, and with the rise of entertainment media presenting an over-idealized form of society, people began to believe this is how social interactions should be like/are. The advancing of technology as a whole did this really, as it made us less social overall (hence my response in your other thread). And because we became less social, we became even more prone to believing the over-idealized form of social interactions. Plus, since the media only represents what the current social and cultural paradigms of society are (i.e. individualism being greater than collectivism), it only exacerbated the issue at hand, which was the massive increase in social narcissism that I mentioned previously that created this whole mess in the first place.

By the way, it's important to note that this favoring individualism over collectivism is also one of the causes for the increase in mental illness that began occurring after that era, especially depression and anxiety. If you try asking around, you'll find people saying that it's simply because psychology was a new concept that was coming out and that there was a negative social stigma attached to mental illness. Don't believe that. While it is true that many people held negative attitudes towards it (mostly older folks who associated it with insanity), they fail to realize that the reason why psychology became more prominent at this time period is because of the need for it. In addition, the single most important factor affecting mental illness is social support. Collectivism already has that social support system built into it simply by nature of being collectivistic, and so when we left collectivism, we left that social support system behind as well, which made us that much more prone to having mental illness. We became less group-oriented and thus less social overall. This increased neuroticism and made us even more difficult to deal with. And remember when I said women conform to social pressure more readily than men? Yeah, that also means that women are disproportionately affected by this too, meaning that women are more affected by this change than men and that the lack of social support is affecting them more than men, thus making women more neurotic than men and harder to deal with than men. We also have data to back this up (The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness states that women have steadily become less and less happy over time while men have remained the same; women are almost twice as likely to have depression compared to men; women are almost twice as likely to have anxiety than men). We also find that unsurprisingly, women are more neurotic than men.

And lastly, no-fault divorce. This one is self-explanatory really; it further exacerbates the lack of female accountability. Women initiate divorces much more often than men do. They will cheat on a man, file for divorce, get a huge lump some of alimony, get further spousal support for life, the home, the cars, his business, and the man is forced to pay child support for kids who aren't even his. If he doesn't like it, he goes to prison. Lawyers, and the court system in general, screw over men and have been for a long, long time. They always favored the woman, but especially so now. Men are just now waking up to it, hence the plummeting marriage rates. TV dramas like Two and a Half Men where one character gets divorced do wake men up to the fact that men always get the raw end of the deal, and also make very apparent that marriage counseling does NOT work and always favors the woman as well. Most men don't even know about prenups, and the ones that do also know about its shortcomings in that it can essentially just be thrown out if the judge doesn't want it, which is very likely to happen due to the women-are-wonderful effect and the courts just generally favoring women.

As for why black people in the US were disproportionately affected by this, it's because they were explicitly targeted by politicians. As you already know, Lyndon B. Johnson was *actually* a racist piece of **** who sought to destroy the black community. He also wanted the Dems to have more power, and so he created the welfare state in order to keep the black vote. Hence his quote(s):


The thing is with the welfare state, it basically says “we will take care of you and your child, you just need to make sure that you aren’t married”. It provides a safety net to prevent homeless and starving children, but it also made people irresponsible because of that. And over the course of generations, the common sense that was previously had by those before us is now gone.



My reply:
This is the most evolved and put together explanation yet. Congrats, great accomplishment.






Now.

I know you can think of ways to get back to collectivism as individuals.

You've brought up the idea in posts a few months ago.
Mainly, look to the Asian cultures that take care of their family members for life.


I can attest that being a member of work related unions over the years grants the collectivism that's proves to be a good start to changing individualism and secondly, uncomfortable as it is to read, the 12 step program(s) meeting collectivism provides the reinforcement of encouraging each individual attending meetings to think and act/serve others outside of themselves, collectively.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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I already know the answers to all of this. I know this is extremely arrogant of me to say, but I have pretty much all of the answers to society’s problems. It’d just take me too long to explain lol. The above took me several hours to properly articulate into words and I’m still not sure if it‘s that well-explained. I’d also never get a chance/real opportunity to implement any of the changes I’d want to make anyway so there’s no point really.
 

Lynx nkaf

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I already know the answers to all of this. I know this is extremely arrogant of me to say, but I have pretty much all of the answers to society’s problems. It’d just take me too long to explain lol. The above took me several hours to properly articulate into words and I’m still not sure if it‘s that well-explained. I’d also never get a chance/real opportunity to implement any of the changes I’d want to make anyway so there’s no point really.
ohhh, come on now mr blackpill. just joking. I heard Noam Chomsky speak hey. It was in a small lecture theatre in McMaster Uni.
We paid 30. each for tickets in 1993 or 4.
He spoke about 'the responsibility of the intellectual' and how challenging it was to translate difficult subjects into simple, everydayman's terms.




That was enough, I agree, must have been tiring.

I screenshotted it all. If I was still on sm I'd 'share' it somewhere.
Someone else can pick up the relay.

If someone was so inclined to state the solutions, please consider using S.M.A.R.T. to help readers believe they can accomplish the baby steps needed to effect change where you are.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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ohhh, come on now mr blackpill. just joking. I heard Noam Chomsky speak hey. It was in a small lecture theatre in McMaster Uni.
We paid 30. each for tickets in 1993 or 4.
He spoke about 'the responsibility of the intellectual' and how challenging it was to translate difficult subjects into simple, everydayman's terms.




That was enough, I agree, must have been tiring.

I screenshotted it all. If I was still on sm I'd 'share' it somewhere.
Someone else can pick up the relay.

If someone was so inclined to state the solutions, please consider using S.M.A.R.T. to help readers believe they can accomplish the baby steps needed to effect change where you are.
I dislike the idea of SMART for goal-setting tbh. It becomes too much about the doing, and less about being, when being is the goal. For example, your goal is to get stronger. As such, the concept of strength should be the essence of your mind. But SMART would have you do it as X reps of Y exercise at Z speed at this specific time of day, etc. and not doing so would therefore mean you fail at your goal of getting stronger when in reality that’s not the case. It’s apart of the problem I mentioned above. We need to be a little more holistic, not as much analytic. Holistic culturesare colelctivistic, whereas analytic ones are individualistic. It’s apart of the problem.

But yeah, if I ever feel like writing solutions, I’ll give examples. The biggest thing is stopping corruption, but in order to do that, there’s have to be so many people in this world that you’d just have to kill. And unfortunately, these same corrupt people that need to be killed have all the power, and they’ve been perpetuating garbage to society for decades about how “violence is never the answer” as a way to make people weak and cowardly and defenseless against them. But if you say that to someone today, they’ll look down at you like you are a horrible human being who needs to be locked up forever, which I think is retarded because those same people have no answers themselves for how to deal with those people. Not to mention, those same folks would kill just the same way if they were in the same position.

But it’s whatever. I’m not gonna do anything because I can’t lol. WWIII is coming soon and I plan to participate, God-willing. Personally I believe it’ll be somewhere between 2027 and 2035, but that’s just me.
 

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Who Dares Win

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Men and women both have positive drives and negative drives.

Man create things and achieve while women create life and nurture.

The problems is that also men are often attracted from violence and looting while women craves vanity, attention and hedonism with no accountability.

When society supported the positive forces in both while discouraging the negative ones, it worked while now that men are discouraged from providing and women are not discouraged from being dangerous, cheating, dumb cvnt its not working anymore.

Remember that if society encourage something we will have more of that while if it punish something we will have less of it.

Think of taxes for men and free stuff for women, think of accountability for men and licence for women and you will understand why men are turning into minimal lifestyle while women are beyond disgusting and often criminal in their everyday life.
 
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