wanna know why good guys finish last? written by a chick on my space

[librito]

hi guys, you wanna know why nice guys finish last? this is a girl from my space who knows her stuff about nice guys.


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cf...=20050826134444

So, its 3:30 am and I get the phonecall from hell. We’ve all had them, those phonecalls that your regret not looking at caller ID as soon as you hear the person’s voice on the line. Yes, the dreaded ex phonecall. So 45 minutes later, after the typical “You never realize what you’ve got til its gone speech” and the “what do I have to do to get a second chance speech” (obviously, the reply was there is nothing you could do to get a second chance) I get the real reason for the phonecall…the guilt trip, complete with tears, yes that’s right he cried, I have no idea why, but he did. Anyway, after the sobbing subsided I am asked a question that intrigued me, “Why don’t women like nice guys?” And then came the anger, because after all I am an abominable ***** who couldn’t see how great of a person he was. Which brings up a question that I’m going to pose, why do men like *****y women?...but, anyway, one topic at a time.
Before I begin on the previously mentioned topic, I would like to offer a disclaimer: This is just my opinion, take it for what its worth. I make no claims that anything I say here is definitive. If it rings true, great, if not, oh well, my feelings won’t be hurt.
First and foremost, there are different kinds of nice guys.


1. The “romantic” nice guy. Personally, these guys freak me out, and that’s why I try to avoid them at all costs. They seem to carry around a pocket version of “how to treat woment” from Hallmark, and they also seem to think that women like being swept off their feet with exlaborate displays of “romance”. You know, sending flowers or gifts to your workplace or school, or showing up toting them in hand, public declarations of love, teddybears, inappropriately expensive jewelry as gifts, candlelit dinners, etc. These guys like to go on about how “they know how to treat a lady”, when in reality they treat women as if we are interchangable, because after all, all women like long stemmed roses, jewelry, teddybears, and of course being mortified in public by some guy putting you on the spot. I suspect these guys are often controlling *******s, and I suspect they appeal to some women because they are used to being controlled, and therefore don’t recognize the signs that a guy isn’t interested in you personally, as a unique individual, but is instead interested in playing the role of “Prince Charming.” Or maybe they only appeal to very young women, or maybe there’s something else going on that I have no clue, well, frankly, because these guys don’t appeal to me at all.


2. The passive, weak, nice guy. Theare are the guys I, personally, dated a lot in high school. These are the guys you end up in a relationship with because they just hang around a lot, and they’re nice enough, and they’re obviously interested in you, and you don’t want to be mean and reject them, so somehow you just end up as a couple. Which is okay in high school, because, after all, what else were you doing in high school? Nothing, and at least this way your pretty much the one in control. The problem, however, is insecure people aren’t so much fun to be dating, and you get tired of being with someone who clings a little too tightly . But of course, these guys completely ignore the warning signs, or rather they’ll respond to the warning signs by becoming even more passive. So you end up breaking up with them, and then they either cringe and make themselves even more pathetic…which is even more annoying, and you end up not even being able to be friends with them, ever again…or else, they finally lash out and try to console themselves with thoughts of what a heinous ***** you were for not appreciating how much they loved (were dependent on) you.

3. The shy nice guy. Now, I, personally, have kind of a hard time telling the difference between the shy nice guy, and the passive, insecure nice guy, and I suspect the main difference only reveals itself over time, that is, you start dating a guy who seems shy, and he ends up being weak; or you start dating a guy who seems passive, and as you get to know him better you realize he’s just shy. Like the weak guys, shy men are often quite reluctant to initiate a relationship, and they also tend to be conflict avoidant. But, unlike the weak guys, they don’t have some latent hostility towards women that comes from being insecure in their own masculinity; they’re simple quiet or shy, and once you get past the initial social awkwardness, they’re basically pretty sure of themselves and can be perfectly fine boyfriends. I have to admit, I’m not so good with this type: I’m a little too impatient and blunt, and I’m not afraid of conflict, so I would probably just make men of this type incredibly uncomfortable a lot of the time. But I’ve seen them dating other friends of mine, and they seem to have a lot of virtues for women who are less assertive.


4. The genuinely nice guy. I strongly suspect that women never call these men “nice guys.” We call them “genuinely nice guys” or “really decent men” or “the good ones” or “yeah, he’s great.” Basically the key here is to have enough sense of who you are that you can deal with other people being who they are without taking every feeling your girlfriend has as a referendum on you personally. These are the guys who can listen to you ***** about something without trying to tell you what to do about it, or getting defensive, or starting to feel insecure because omg, you’re angry; the guys who recognize your individuality well enough that they don’t hassle you with stupid teddybears, but will instead give you a good book or cook you a dinner. In other words, genuine “niceness” means a certain level of differentiation: caring about someone, but also understanding that the person your dating has feelings and opinions and needs of their own that have nothing to do with you. And thinking that that’s really cool, and that’s why you liked them in the first place.


So, moral to the story, women don’t hate nice guys, it just depends what category of “nice” you fit

 

[librito]

Part 2: *****y Women
The flip side to the “nice guy” mentality is, of course, the “*****” stereotype. I’m going to ignore the “women who like to be abused” bull****, as well as the “nice women who get overlooked” bull****, because I think both of those are pretty cut and dry: “women who like to be abused” don’t really exist, although women who have bad taste in men do; and as far as “nice women who get overlooked,” that statement translates to either the woman is either plain or pretty enough, but not “ultra feminine,” so her prettiness goes unnotices, or else she’s simply a quiet woman who goes about her own business and tends not to get “boy crazy,” in my experience these women don’t date a lot but usually end up with someone who thinks their grand. Anyway, I’m not “nice” in that way, so I don’t have a lot to say about it. Instead I’ll discuss one of my questions: Why do so many men like *****y women?Again, there are different things that can fall under the category of a “*****y women.”
1. There are, without a doubt, women who are genuinely mean people; and often these women are the *****iest to other women, but tend to play up to men, because on some level being a “*****” is all about power. I have to admit that these kind of women usually don’t piss me off quite as much as ******* guys do, because I think I get where they’re coming from, and while I think that they suck, Ican’t bring myself to hate them for trying to pursue their own self interest. Really, I think these women aren’t all that intelligent, they may be smart enough in a clever, bookish logic way, but their inability to empathize with others or consider the complexities of power and self advancement strikes me as being close minded and blind.
2. Women who are abusive. Nothing much to say about this subject. These women treat the people in their life like ****. Really cut and dry, self explanatory.
3. Strong women, as we all know, all get called “*****” sooner or later. We’ve all heard the little jingle about how “***** = Babe in Total Control of Herself.” The reclaiming of “*****,” I think, refers primarily to this sense: it’s a preemptive move that women use to take the wind out of the misogynistic sail.
4. Women who are *****y in private relationships. This is what I’m most interested in, and I’ll admit that it’s because, to some extent, this is me. However, not in an abusive type manner, as in scenerio number two. So anyway, women who are *****y in private relationships are often times described as “high-strung” or “high maintenance.” Up to a point, I think these women are good people for solid, self-confident guys, we have a clear sense of boundaries, we’re direct, we’re not conflict averse, we don’t waste time hinting that something’s wrong…all in all pretty straight forward. But I’ll admit that sometimes those skills get misapplied, and I’ll end up being incredibly rigid over something that really isn’t at all worth the trouble, something that’s usually simply an easier to deal with version of something bigger that I’m worried about. Like, and I think a lot of students tend to do this, perhaps especially woment. My stress over “having” to work on some big research paper will somehow be transferred into having a fit over the fact that my roommate didn’t vacuum. I think this is often (not always, or perhaps not even usually) a problem with high achieving woment: we put very high, maybe even unrealistic expectations on ourselves, and we have a certain amount of anger at situations where we perceive that our achievments or efforts are undervaluened. Really, it boils down to the fact that we would like to be more assertive but can’t because after all “nice girls” aren’t pushy…well at least not in public, and to detour being labeled abrasive or lacking tact. So in general, there is the constant stress of trying to balance ambition without seeming abrasive or rude. So, I think (and by now you’re either realizing that this is an elaborate rationalization or else and elaborate piece of self analysis, or both) that this stress gets internalized and comes out in private relationships, as extreme impatience with significant others on whom we place a lot of expectations for support that we don’t feel is forthcoming anywhere else.
So let me clearify, I don’t think that being a ***** is entirely okay. I think that certain level os personal *****iness” is fine, and I suspect a lot of men are attracted to strong, assertive, ambitious women, which is of course the simple answer to the “why do men like *****y women” question. But I wonder about the men who live with those women who are “*****y” in private relationships. What’s the attraction? I admit I don’t think I could do it. Is it that decent, confident guys are sure enough of themselves that they can live with women who get a little overwrought because they know it’s nothing personal? Is it that on some level they understand the internal tention of being ambitious and being “nice”? Is it actually that they like the 80-90hat’s strong confident, and assertive, and frankly really hate the 10-20hat’s just flat out *****y but figure that on balance the good outweights the bad? Is it a really sweet and generous expression of the fact that decent guys really truly do like women, and they’re just not all that fazed by anger or the occasional unreasonable diatribe because, after all, they like you regardless and everyone gets upset and wound up every now and then?
Or is it we really aren’t as bad as we think we are, and in thinking we must be, we’re being as *****y to ourselves as we think we are to everyone else

 

[KontrollerX]

This chick is right for the most part but she's still a miserable b!tch for leading these guys on when she knew what all of them were and how the relationship was going to end in the first place.

 

[wayword]

It's hard to understand all that with half the words *****'d out.

 

[librito]

wayworld.....................all of the words blacked out are related to women being
beaches ......and women hate it when we call them that way.
for example, when you call a woman a beach.

 

[wayword]

Ah, then Pt 1 is decent, Pt 2 is bitter feminista BS.

I love how they try to reclaim "beaches" as simply "strong women."

No, a beach is more a fake, deceitful, manipulative, self-centered, soulless, fork-tongued woman who uses everyone as means to her own ends. Always wants to take, never give. Someone who scores reaaaally high on this quiz. Has absolutely no sense of ethics or fairness in her dealings with others.

 

[ADifferentKindofDJ]

What she basicaly said is be a man and know how to handle your woman.

ADKdj