Waiting too long?

[decentguy]

Had a great first date with a girl on Thursday, although logistics did not afford the right opportunity for a kiss. Her interest signals seemed very solid though.

She will be away for a week starting next Tuesday.

Should I use momentum to my advantage and set up a 2nd date with her for Monday, or is it too soon?

I'm wondering if it might be detrimental to wait until she gets back (which will be in a bit more than a week from now) to contact her for date 2. I've been told that things can go stale if you wait too long.

 

[seth03]

Based on my 7 years of experience of dating probably 40 women total: NOT ONE WOMAN GAVE ME ANOTHER CHANCE IF I FAILED TO KISS HER ON OUR FIRST TIME OUT ALONE. PERIOD.

I predict you will have to NEXT this girl, and try again with someone else. Sure, you may have a very small chance, if the girl is really ugly or desperate or really beneath you in many respects, but I can say with 99.9% certainty that this is done.

 

[jophil28]

The reason that you were rejected was because you did not trigger their interest level or create attraction, not so much because you did not smooch. In MY 30 some odd years of dating hundreds of woman I claim that you are wrong. I rarely(if ever) kiss a woman on the first date. Second and third dates come easily - no problem.

To the OP, I would go for a Sunday night date or a Monday night date. And kiss her for pete's sake. IF she jumps at your invite, she WANTS to be kissed.

Then allow her week away to nibble at her imagination about you.

 

[mrRuckus]

Just 15 minutes ago a girl i met up with for the first time on Thursday texted me asking if I would see her again. I was going to call her during the day on Saturday, but I guess she beat me to it.

I never kissed her either.

I hugged her when I got there, and I hugged her when I left. There was no hesitation in touching her, but I usually don't bother to rush into kissing since there's no need. Let her have something to look forward to later.

I think it probably helps for her to be anxious and unsure about whether you like her or not since you didn't try to kiss her. Every guy probably tries, and it's probably awkwardly.

The 'date' also cost me $3. I bought smoothies, and we walked by the water. It was maybe 90 min together.

 

[morningbrew]

If you've projected a sense of higher value and spurred her interested you can tease her and take time with planting the first kiss. If she sees you as having higher value she won't mind if you escalate on your terms entirely. When done correctly it basically tells her "I can easily get women of your caliber. I'm in no rush to seal the deal. You get what I give, etc..". Note: if this is just going to be a FB then this little game is stupid. Be aggressive out of the gates.

Of course, this all falls apart if the reason you're not escalating due to timidity. Once she detects lack of confidence the game's over, especially with an attractive woman.

I've been dealing with a woman recently almost exactly like mrRuckus has. I consider her dating material so the illusion of delaying gratification is working like a charm.

 

[seth03]

well to all the people that do not kiss on the first date and are successful, not to be mean, but really, how old and how good looking (on a scale of 1-10) are these women you talking about? Because sure, I can see how a 35 y/o woman who doesn't have much going for her in the dating could accept it. But 98% of the women i've been with have been 24 and under, and 7.5+ in the looks department. I've gone out with a couple 5's too when I moved to a new city and knew nobody, and was young and in a slump. Even when I showed hesitation or failed to kiss on the first date w/ the 5's, it would be over. Never have I or any of my friends gone on a 2nd date w/o kissing on the 1st. It is simply expected.

 

[mrRuckus]

The most recent girl i posted about is 23 and i'd say an 8, maybe a bit higher when i can see her naked. 5'8, long brunette hair, thin, and a C cup. She takes spin classes and is working to become an instructor. Ran track in college.

I never bother with less than a 7. I'd rather go without.

The only girls i ever really kiss on a first date unless it just somehow happens because she's aggressive or something are a few girls i've met online who i've talked to about sex or similar and they obviously have to be expecting it or they wouldn't have shown up. I HAVE kissed girls on a first date/meeting the second I laid eyes on them. It depends on the vibe you had before you get them in person.

It's never had any bearing on whether they want to see me again that I can tell. It seems pointless to press for the kiss just because. You'd get near the end of the date and start panicing you haven't yet and force it at the wrong time.

 

[decentguy]

Update

Update
I asked her for a 2nd date (bowling) in 2 days from now and this was her response:

"I was supposed to go out for dinner with friends on monday but I'm not sure if it's still on. Bowling sounds like fun! I'll get back to you".

Am I overreacting by having a bad feeling about this? If she gets back to me the same day as the suggested date and I accept, it shows that I have nothing else and that I'm just waiting for her.

Your thoughts?

 

[seth03]

I stand by my originally stated thoughts 100%. Every responder on here has disagreed with me but we'll see how this pans out.

She wouldn't be so vague about planning a time out with you if she was truly interested. Any sane girl would rather be taken out for an exciting night by a guy they are attracted to, rather than pay for dinner with their whiney annoying girl friends on a monday.

Now i'm not saying don't be optimistic about it, but i'm just giving you some reality so it doesn't hit as hard. If I were u i'd just keep going for it until she says no or stops calling, because you already went this far. If you stop now, you are guaranteed to fail, but if u keep going, at least failure won't be guaranteed.

 

[decentguy]

You may be right Seth. I'm thinking of doing the following:
If she gets back to me today confirming tomorrow's date, all is good.

If, however, she waits until Monday (the day of the date), I'll tell her I'm not free anymore and that we'll hang out another time.

Think it might help me regain control of the frame?

 

[Tazman]

If, however, she waits until Monday (the day of the date), I'll tell her I'm not free anymore and that we'll hang out another time.

Exactly! Also, tell her you'll get back to her on this if she doesn't counter offer.

 

[seth03]

You may be right Seth. I'm thinking of doing the following:
If she gets back to me today confirming tomorrow's date, all is good.

If, however, she waits until Monday (the day of the date), I'll tell her I'm not free anymore and that we'll hang out another time.

Think it might help me regain control of the frame?

Absolutely. That is exactly what I would do to help salvage the situation. If you really want to take a chance with it.....i'd probably even go as far as telling her today that you made plans for tomorrow, and try to reschedule something for next week. I've done it before with girls who were interested in me; and for EVERY SINGLE ONE, it clearly increased their interest level. (I never did it for that purpose though, it was actually because other plans came up, and those other plans had to do with other women).

But if you want to stay on the safer side...i'd stick with your plan. Good luck.

 

[jophil28]

Update
I asked her for a 2nd date (bowling) in 2 days from now and this was her response:

"I was supposed to go out for dinner with friends on monday but I'm not sure if it's still on. Bowling sounds like fun! I'll get back to you".

Am I overreacting by having a bad feeling about this? If she gets back to me the same day as the suggested date and I accept, it shows that I have nothing else and that I'm just waiting for her.

Your thoughts?

Whoa, slow yourself down here. You are talking about an invite for a 2nd date with a woman who has other social connections. Any attractive woman will have other things going on from time to time . Her reply to you was reasonable, and it should not be a warning signal at all.
The 'warning sign' would only apply IF she does not get back to you by Monday morning, or AT ALL. She can confirm that dinner invite with one quick phone call to her 'friends'.
If she calls you back by Monday lunch time and says that she is booked to go to dinner with her friends, give her the benefit of the doubt IF she suggests a counter offer or mentions seeing you again soon.

IF she does not get back to you at all, lose her number because she has low IL and is lying about the friend's dinner as a way of blowing you off.
Do not accept a call next Friday morning with a lame excuse "I been soooo busy but I am free tonight".

Successful dating requires that YOU formulate you own rules of acceptable behavior from women.
You need rules to deal with her lateness, flaking, cancelations, her alcohol consumption and so on. Unless you have these set in stone, you will be forever at the whims of women who mostly believe that they are doing YOU a favor and that they can do whatever they please.

 

[jophil28]

Any sane girl would rather be taken out for an exciting night by a guy they are attracted to, rather than pay for dinner with their whiney annoying girl friends on a monday.

I have two comments. Firstly, women rely heavily on their "whiney annoying girlfriends"... in fact they cling tightly together as a micro support group whose function it is to adjudicate on each member's love life and personal dilemma's . Watch a few episodes of Sex in the City to see what I mean here.. Women LOVE having girlfriends. It brings them the comfort and feeling of not being alone in the universe.

Secondly , if I invited a woman out(who had G/f potential ) and she canceled an existing arranged dinner with her girlfriends to go out with me I would grade her DOWN.
BY doing that she is demonstating a character flaw. She does not honor her agreements or keep her word and one day she will do that to YOU.

 

[seth03]

I have two comments. Firstly, women rely heavily on their "whiney annoying girlfriends"... in fact they cling tightly together as a micro support group whose function it is to adjudicate on each member's love life and personal dilemma's . Watch a few episodes of Sex in the City to see what I mean here.. Women LOVE having girlfriends. It brings them the comfort and feeling of not being alone in the universe.

Secondly , if I invited a woman out(who had G/f potential ) and she canceled an existing arranged dinner with her girlfriends to go out with me I would grade her DOWN.
BY doing that she is demonstating a character flaw. She does not honor her agreements or keep her word and one day she will do that to YOU.

I completely disagree, especially since she said "she wasn't sure if the dinner was still on". It's not like this dinner was planned out by her and her friends for 1 year and that her friends were hoping she would honor her word. Its sounds like any other night out with the same friends by his description. If it was any MORE than that, she would have flat out told him that she had plans on monday, and that would be that. I know we will just go back and forth on this, so we'll see how this pans out.

 

[decentguy]

Guys, my main concern is the following:

If she contacts me the day of the date to tell me she's free, and I accept, it sends her the message that her time is more valuable than mine and that my plans depend on her. In other words, she knows I'll wait for her. It reeks of desperation.

"Maybe" plans = bull. As interested as she seems in me, I'm judging her by her actions, not her words.

Showing her that I'm not afraid of losing her by indicating that I am no longer free for the date can only INCREASE her attraction. It'll give her something to think about during her week away.

 

[seth03]

Guys, my main concern is the following:

If she contacts me the day of the date to tell me she's free, and I accept, it sends her the message that her time is more valuable than mine and that my plans depend on her. In other words, she knows I'll wait for her. It reeks of desperation.

"Maybe" plans = bull. As interested as she seems in me, I'm judging her by her actions, not her words.

Showing her that I'm not afraid of losing her by indicating that I am no longer free for the date can only INCREASE her attraction. It'll give her something to think about during her week away.

yeah dude, thats exactly what i was saying u should do in my earlier post. i just didnt know whether u would understand how doing that would be better/or whether u were willing to take that small risk. just call her and cancel it now, and reschedule, saying you have other plans.

 

[decentguy]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your advice, I sincerely appreciate it!

So here's what happened. I followed the advice, and sent her a text message saying I had something planned for monday evening and that we'll reschedule our date.

Her response within a few seconds was the following:
"it's a good thing because I too have something planned. Let's reschedule bowling for another time! Good night."

Guys, I'm really not sure how to interpret this. Is she playing games? Is she sincere? Is this all one big sh!t test?

 

[Poonani Maker]

My concern would be: How does anyone have all this money for "dinner" out yet again? in the down economy. I don't go for women who eat out with her friends all the time. Shows she's lax with her (or daddy's) money.

 

[seth03]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your advice, I sincerely appreciate it!

So here's what happened. I followed the advice, and sent her a text message saying I had something planned for monday evening and that we'll reschedule our date.

Her response within a few seconds was the following:
"it's a good thing because I too have something planned. Let's reschedule bowling for another time! Good night."

Guys, I'm really not sure how to interpret this. Is she playing games? Is she sincere? Is this all one big sh!t test?

It's hard to tell at this point. Starting from the basics:

1) she replied, and quickly at that. That means there exists some interest. If she was not interested, she would not respond.
2) Her response had some hope in it. She did mention the idea of rescheduling.
3) However, she kind of ended it quickly without saying anything else. So who knows?

Call her and try to schedule something for within the next 2-3 weeks. Make it appear that you are busy.