View of College?

[wordism]

How important do you feel a college degree is?

 

[backbreaker]

important, but not "necessary" as it was say...20 years ago.

Even with a college degree.. most kids goof though college, and when they get in the real world, espically in the computer tech field, they wonder why they can't get a job that's not at Best Buy selling computers.

Really, what it has become, is that by getting your degree, you are bascially, ,more times than not, lifting yourself up to be just like everyone else... YOu have to find a way to diferencate yourself from the crowd... There are thousands of college graduates every year competeting for the same jobs you are every year, just because you "made it though" doesn't mean jack anymore.

 

[Julian]

yeah for real im starting to learn that college is what you make it. the only thing your guaranteed in college is some massive debt.

 

[wordism]

Originally posted by Julian
some massive debt.

lol you ain't lying.. It seems society puts such a must on college still though?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Go to JC and state school and live at home. In the midwest, a 4-yr degree can cost as low as $10-15K this way. But if you go to a private school and live on campus, a degree can quickly rack up $80K of debt. Generally speaking, job prospects for 4-year liberal arts degrees stink. Computers, technology, and engineering degrees usually are better for getting a job. Business and Finance depend a lot on the contacts you make with internships. If your BA/BS can get you a job, then you can have the income to start being a "grown-up" and live on your own.

 

[oakraiderz2]

Originally posted by Bible_Belt
Go to JC and state school and live at home. In the midwest, a 4-yr degree can cost as low as $10-15K this way. But if you go to a private school and live on campus, a degree can quickly rack up $80K of debt. Generally speaking, job prospects for 4-year liberal arts degrees stink. Computers, technology, and engineering degrees usually are better for getting a job. If your BA/BS can get you a job, then you can have the income to start being a "grown-up" and live on your own.

Im majoring in psychology and it seems like i wont be able to do anything in the real world with it. I thought about doint engineering or something so i could get a real job once i graduated. So what other ways are there to make money WITHOUT going to college?

 

[Page]

Originally posted by oakraiderz2
So what other ways are there to make money WITHOUT going to college?

You don't need a college degree to invest.

Creditors don't care about how much education you have, they just want their money paid back on time.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Hey Raiderz, I have a poli sci degree from The University of Tampa, so you know what I mean about overpriced.

As a psych major with good grades, you can use it to get into grad school (I went to law school), but a bs in psych should be more of a complement to other skills as it does not differentiate you when considered by itself. If you had sales skills AND a psych degree, for example, that would help you to get a sales job with a large company. Wages are low in Florida, but Tampa still has a good economy. There are always office jobs. I have friends who did well by simply getting an entry level "computer guy" job and letting their company pay for their education and certifications one at a time.

I did a lot of career-shopping in the area. If you are good at fixing things, there is an airplane-mechanic trade school at the St Pete airport. It's like a 3 semester program that gets you a $30k/yr job.

 

[sifer]

My view is, it's useless, it always has been UNLESS - and this is important, unless you want to chase an Ivory Tower life.

I know a few people who do and worship their degrees as if it was religion.

My best friend and I once went over an associate's house of mine. And I saw an altar setup not for the dead, but for a piece of paper that was the degree.

That was a startling experience for me.

If I gave you the answer on what you could do, you would never learn to think for yourself. That's why I believe not just me, but many others, like a loving father and mother, they would give you a mold, you learn to make your own instead of "do this, do that, step by step" like the usual "make a doctor out of it" or something of that sort.

Sure, I am definitely wrong if you plan on pursuing a job. If so, by all means, go to college, work hard, and good luck. It might help.

edit - I added the below as I realized that people are going to college to make money. Not "oh I love science, I love it, absolutely do, I will die for it and die for it more if science is not given to me!" It's really too bad that passion is not pushed more in today's society.

My own little note, sometime life feels so good, makes me wonder... must be a dream. Must be a dream...

Heh anyway, might get offtopic a bit here and there but the point is that it doesn't matter what you have, all the degrees in the world won't help if you don't do it, if you don't put the effort required to succeed and reach your goal, whatever it may be. And having no degree at all, in fact, having no schooling in your life is good. It helps makes you think creatively, imaginatively, forces you to succeed in ways no other form of discipline can.

And usually after you succeed or are your way there, it gets much easier. You spend more time with yourself or your family, more free times to play games or have fun with chicks.

Here's the way I see it.

I believe opportunities are everywhere, one just has to look. It's really right underneath your nose.

Sadly and unfortunately, most people don't look. They never will. It's too hard. It's tiring.
It's tiring but opportunities are everywhere, some going "take this chance, take this risk, just do it", and some opportunities dressed up as a homeless and probably smells.

So people don't succeed or ever reach their goal and wonder, "why am I not successful? I have a Masters" or "hm... why am I in debt?"

Wait, no. Scratch that. They don't even take the time to sit down and think. Most people I know just think at best, "damnit, debt" and they work work work, then watch TV, read the newspaper or the latest gossip magazine, and then more TV.

You ever heard of the saying, when a person sees the bill, and screams, "IT'S HERE! IT'S HERE!"

We have trillions and trillions of dollars (and more by the way) looking for a wallet to sit comfortably and warmly in but it's lost or getting taken by someone who wants it all

And these are the "someone" we work for. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Charles Schwab (by the way, did you know he had ADHD?; google it), STR8UP, Richard Branson, Barbara Corcoran, etcetc.

Oh and let's not forget Donald Trump, Ingvar Kamprad, Thomas Edison, and more.. More than I can list. The people we work for, people who usually have no high school degree or college degree or had a liberal degree.

There's more than enough money for everyone, more than trillions, we can make more, while still keeping the value of it (IMO).

Not that working for someone is bad, it's just that when you are at the mercy of that person, it isn't so good unless of course, I've always believed, the job you do makes you feel as who you are, defines who you are, etcetc, then go ahead, keep at it at your job.

Einstein made himself a name and several other greatest inventors, they had no need for money except what was given to them just enough.

I can't tell you how to find opportunities, only you can do that, use your brain.
I can't take an opportunity and say, "this is a good business", you might not agree.

Next time you use a product and don't like it, well, there's an opportunity for you to change it.
Next time you're unsatisfied with the traffic, there's an opportunity.
Who knows, maybe you can invent the flying car that was due last 10 freaking years (when I was little I used to read those science magazines, WHERE'S MY FLYING CAR?!? It's long overdue.).

Anyway, that's a few of my view on opportunity.

In the Industrial Age, all you had to do was to work for 3-5 hours (I believe around there) and do your job good, as time grew, as opportunity became more obvious that it's everywhere with new invention and new ideas coming out (from movies, books, games, etcetc), today we work longer hours for less pay as opposed to back then.

It is no longer true that you could just work 4 hours and still pay for your bills and spend time with yourself or your family.

Today when you get laid off, and it's so easy to get laid off, it isn't because the economy sucks or because someone just felt like firing you when he got up in the morning.

It's because of what economist call structural unemployment (I read many many many books on economy, just a little note, there's more than this).
It's because somewhere in this world where the person gets laid off, it's because there's an introduction of changes in technology or invention or the way they do things.

For example, robots in Asia, no longer do we have to rely on humans to lift things up and bring it from one place to another, when robots were introduced, they could do just it just as well and do it longer, laying off the humans who once did it. Why hire a human when you can invest in a robot who can do the job forever and do it better than the human. Faster, smarter, and more efficient.

Another example, instead of CD players, now we use MP3 players, what happens to those who make CD? They get laid off because their company decides to make MP3 player and they feel you are not qualified to make MP3 player's components, even if you could they feel they have someone else who captured this opportunity and makes it better. It happens. That's when you decide to go back to college for it.

Another example, the product you're making is no longer being demanded by your customers, thus you can't fill a certain quota in your company and viola, you get fired.

Another way to view and find opportunities is asking yourself, "what do people want?"

This way you can find the opportunity and capture it first before it becomes a huge hit.

For example, if you work for a phone company making phones if you captured the opportunity, you could've asked "how do I make this better...?" and then perhaps out of the ordinary you decide to quit and create a cell phone company and viola, you're now one of the first in this business and people will remember you for this.
"Sifer invented cell phone because wired phones sucks."

I believe and I know anyone and everyone can do it, no matter what the condition is (unless you are mentally ill or brain damaged; in that case, you shouldn't be able to read all of this...).

I've seen homeless get sick of being homeless and got up and took one week of his time and literally become a millionaire overnight.

I've also seen people sign a few papers and instantly turn poor in a few seconds.

There's always someone getting rich and there's always someone getting poor.

It isn't about how much you make, it isn't even about if you have a job or not.

Income does not create wealth. Having more money will not make you rich.

It is all about what you do when you have no money.

And when you do get the money one way or another, it is what you do with it.
Do you pay yourself first or do you pay your bills first and then buy useless things?

It's the sad part of life that people think they can avoid the rat race when they say "if I just make more money".
And when they do get in it, they're trapped, when they start having kid(s), when they get married, when they have to pay off debts (owing money to parents, college, etcetc) and when you get a car or two.

I can always learn if a person is going to be a millionaire or not by asking these questions. Several thoughts process my mind and I instantly get the answer "he'll make it" or "he won't make it".

1 - Do you pay yourself first?
2 - Are you social and open minded?
3 - Do you know your spending habit?
4 - Do you own your own home?
5 - Do you donate or give charity?

Without getting too political, why the gov't doesn't teach you how to get wealthy is because of many many reasons.

For example, if you're rich, you won't have to pay tax. Why? You already know the tax and the left and right of it. You can avoid (not evade, stupid) paying tax.
How will the gov't make money?
Taxing people is one of the best way to get rich, as good as winning the lottery.

Like Napolean Hill's Think and Grow Rich and I, I think that all school should be teaching wealth and richness, and that classes would take only 1 year.

And you're done! By the time you graduate, I think you should get out there and start doing what you want to do, be it being schooled (not the same as education but that's for another topic all together) or open your own business.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

The REAL value in a college education are the things MOST don't see.

*Making connections, to SOME future business leaders (make sure you're at a good biz school).

*The opportunity to join other interest groups, practice in your major, and connect to experiences.

College is an 'educational investment'. But what do you see on most major campuses?

--------------------------

By and large, kids in America are trading dollars for guaranteed jobs, hopefully it's a fair and profitable trade. To aspire to the echelon of certain career paths, one must BE of a certain pedigree.

As stated before, the appeal of college education in early America and Europe was that the degree DID return 1,000% on money invested. It would cost $300 for college, and the income earned would be $3,000. If you paid today for a degree $100,000 and made $1,000,000, then EVERYBODY would be right in going to college. However, the # of college degrees has driven DOWN the return on invested dollars in college education.

Colleges and college graduates are at the mercy of employers, whereas it USED to be the other way around. Employers wants free thinkers, new ideas, and producers, results-driven doers, not those pandering their wares as some "degree' worthy" person. Quite honestly, I'm glad people can start and finish the journey of education that it does require, but I'm not impressed on a general basis. A friend of mine has a 4.0 from Umass in Plastics Engineering. That's impressive, because so few do it. But to have a degree, really isn't. You could plod along with a 2.0 and get a degree. And not really learn anything, though, at least you prove you did something.

Business degrees being what they are are very general and bland. I wouldn't JUST get it, a minor is a must when getting one. Show direction, specialty interest, etc. It's good to be balanced in all areas if you're CEO, but normally a CEO hails from the sales/marketing deparment, unless the organization is a financial firm or engineering firm, or some other specialty firm.

-------------------------

I say go state, in most cases, unless it's possible to go private (i.e. parents pay or scholarships; unless your parents would give you the 100k to go to college or not, take the 90k cash, invest it, go to a state school, and buy a bunch of apartments in the area of your college; not only would you be rich by the end of college, you'd have a blast owning the whole block.)

I've learned more OUTSIDE school than in. I wouldn't have the career I do without my degree, and it demonstrated the committment I have to my chosen path, but it wasn't cheap either. I learned alot because I CHOSE TO, and made some decent friends, who are doing well, now, too that I"ll have my whole life.

There's one thing to say, though...there's no place on earth where there's so much easy, free pvssy. Where you can pay so much to be there and do so little to get by. Where parents freely and easily give money for the most base habits. Where booze is right in front of you. Where the zaniest shyt happens. Everybody has a diff experience, I'm glad I had mine, I would have gone, no doubt, but maybe a shade cheaper.



A-Unit

 

[sifer]

(continue from my post)

Another example why the gov't don't teach real money. It is because part of the fact is that insurance and other brokerage firm make money off of our ignorance, period.

You can always follow someone's program and they say "set aside 10% of your earnings in a job and you won't need discipline, you won't need any energy to start your own business, all you do is work for the rest of your life and just save 10%, it's that easy" and there are some program out there that I can think of on the spot right now that advocates that.

And you can always take the easy way; save, work, save, work, save, work.

I also don't believe you need a budget.
Meaning you don't need a budget planning.
Ever notice how people who budget are boring and don't actually do what they actually like (be it games or whatever it is they like to do).
They seem totally miserable.
Do you know anyone who does this budgeting? I mean it's good to keep track of where your money goes, but it's another thing to track your expense, income, then exactly what you'll spend your money on and when and that's it and when unexpected needs or wants come up, you can't spend it cause it's not in your budgeting plan, etcetc.

Who really does this? If you do, I don't think he's a good person to be around with.
"Ok I can't go to the movies, I didn't budget that" or "ok, I won't go, you guys go, I'll just stay home, I am not gonna buy it just to hang out with you guys", etcetc.

With Robert Kiyosaki's wisdom on immediacy - "Your future is created by what you do today, not tomorrow"; "The poor, the unsuccessful, the unhappy, the unhealthy are the ones who use the word tomorrow the most"; "The only difference between a rich person and poor person is how they use their time".

The only thing I can say is, getting wealthy and rich is simple and you need to start today. Really.

 

[sifer]

Re: Re:

Originally posted by A-Unit
There's one thing to say, though...there's no place on earth where there's so much easy, free pvssy. Where you can pay so much to be there and do so little to get by. Where parents freely and easily give money for the most base habits. Where booze is right in front of you. Where the zaniest shyt happens. Everybody has a diff experience, I'm glad I had mine, I would have gone, no doubt, but maybe a shade cheaper.

One thing I've learned in life is this, if college or school is the only place where you can get ***** or beer or friends/connections, then that's sad.

Not attacking you personally, but there are plenty elsewhere you can get ***** or friends/connections just as easily or easier.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

True enough, sifer, and I don't take any offense by anyone. We've both talked and I think anybody that knows me doesn't take handouts (didn't have parents pay for college) and never walked through it.

I say that because for the "enlightened" guys who see it for what it is, there IS something to be had. It's not the only place, but it certainly is nuts.

We all need a little time to decompress, and so, if you're maximizing your college time, taking time off to have fun is always warranted.

Word hard, play hard.

----------------------------


Budgeting IS somewhat necessary.

Why?

Because...there's ways, even today where you can work to find financial independence.

A "financial Freedom NUMBER" enables YOU to know what it takes to GET OUT OF THE RAT RACE. This would be the number you need MONTHLY to live that could be provided by passive income...

*rental property
*tax free bond funds
*passive business income (royalties)
*preferred stock dividends, etc.

This number is LOW, say $2,000 after taxes and can be madeup of a variety of sources. One doesn't need to be R/E guru to get there. It helps, and it's good diversification, but not necessary, YET.

See, most don't target THIS number, they target a career HIGH number. Yet, you could work for 20 years making 100k per year, save nothing, and need Earned Income rather than Passive Income.

Sure, get on the tread mill and run off 10%/year in mutual funds, and you MAY get there. This is what I call the ATKINS financial plan. It's what people want to hear. They can blow 90% of their after tax income on anything they want and hope that a poor retirement is out there so they can live lavishly now.

While on the flip side, you could invest almost everything you get, work to amass a sum of capital that gives you options and GET out of the rat race (meaning the race to make money to buy things). That way, if you LIKE what you do, you keep doing it. Or, you can devote time to WHAT you love. Not to mention, if something happened healthwise, you could take time off and not worry.

The financial freedom number is more important than the earned income we make, since down the road, THAT is what we want to retire on anyways. So in effect, if transfer your earned income to passive or portfolio income, you can transition out of work or to work of less earned income, or use more earned income to BEEF up your passive income portfolio.

Over a long enough time line, with enough dedication, ANY goal is possible, since most people lack the truest measurement of success: dedication.



A-Unit

 

[sifer]

Re: Re:

Originally posted by A-Unit

Word hard, play hard.

Haha, I believe in:

Work easy, play hard as hell.

Anyway I'll comment on some of it when I am not busy.

 

[STR8UP]

Re: Re:

While on the flip side, you could invest almost everything you get, work to amass a sum of capital that gives you options and GET out of the rat race (meaning the race to make money to buy things).

**OR**

You could learn the power of leverage and cut down on the amount of time and work involved into a fraction of what it would be by trying to work and save it. Just some food for thought...

The financial freedom number is more important than the earned income we make, since down the road, THAT is what we want to retire on anyways. So in effect, if transfer your earned income to passive or portfolio income, you can transition out of work or to work of less earned income, or use more earned income to BEEF up your passive income portfolio.

You are 100% correct.

And this is a HUGE part of most people's financial problem. They are so busy trying to earn enough income to support their day to day spending (read: insatiable consumer desires), that they completely neglect the fact that ONE DAY (and that day could be TOMORROW if you get sick or hurt) they will no longer be able to physically provide for themselves and will have to rely on whatever they have or whatever someone else gives them to survive.

To respond to the original question-

College can be of UTMOST importance to one person, and of ZERO importance to the next. Just depends upon the kind of person you are. There are many people out there who are terrified of taking financial "risks" and have resolved themselves to having to work hard for the rest of their lives, never getting far ahead. These people should absolutely go to college.

For the OTHER group of people it's an entirely different story. Personally, I could have dropped out of high school in tenth grade, never set another foot in a classroom as long as I lived, and STILL been a millionaire by the time I was 40.

If you don't have the desire to go to college all you have to do is learn what wealthy people do (buy assets) and do the same. Don't let anyone tell you that college is the key to wealth, because it absolutely IS NOT. Also, don't let anyone tell you that you need college if you want to make a good living. Plenty of business owners and real estate investors make well above an average salary without any kind of formal education whatsoever.

 

[bullmoose]

I have a Ph.D. so I'm hardly the one to attack this question impartially.

But this is a dating site, so let's talk pvssy.

Check out Diablo's "cheerleader pics" thread. Those girls are NOT going to hook up with you if you work at KFC off-campus.

Am I making myself clear?

I would've stayed in school forever if I'd thought I could; hell, I cut a swath through my schools that would make a Baldwin blush. Frankly, I think that I'd like to go back to a university -- even a community college, to teach even part-time -- just to be around a constant flow of chicks.

Jesus Tapdancing Chr!st -- my buddies and I used to crash the 100-level courses -- the big, 600-seater 8 AM classes -- and set up "study buddy" groups with the freshman girls we'd meet there, even though we'd already taken the class (or learned the material) years prior.

Go to school. Stay in school. Get laid. A lot.

 

[wordism]

Alot of good replies.. good ****..

Heres my situation.. Somebody read

I just started going to college for graphic design now. I love graphic design and figured it was something that I wanted to do so I attended this school. The university didn't have a graphic design major. So I attended this art school. But the tuition is high(around 5k a quarter with a total of 8 quarters) and I've found that when I finished I would be in major debt and wouldn't be making that much money salary wise at less I started a graphic design company. Now I don't need a degree to start a company of course.. just need good skills, portfolio, a website, and promotion. My parents put a lot of pressure on me to attend school, but I rather not continue going to this school. As I could end of going deep into debt.

For money right now I have a separate website selling urban clothes/shoes. What I make per week varies but anywhere from 1k 2k.. so a month of hard promoting would pay that 5k debt.
Now I have a decision.. Since college is being forced upon me I guess I will go to university and major in lets sayyyy Computer Science. I kinda dred the thought of going to school for 4-5 years, but its a chance to build up money.. I have products that would sale to fellow students and peers.... and get laid more as bullmoose said... so it sounds like a good oppurunity. Soooo?

 

[DJ4Real]

Very Important.

 

[Julian]

Heres my problem guys, maybe someone can offer some insight.

I recently started school. I am a freshman. I am not having a good time, really.

I went to college because i was stuck in a rut, needed some progress...some change. Now im here and im paying to go to some bullsh1t classes i dont like.

The thing that bothers me most is how most "adults" or whoever really, encourages freshman and the like by saying "oh you dont need to know what you want to do just yet". I think thats complete BS. What the **** am i doing in college if i am not aspiring to accomplish a goal?

I need to figure out what i want to do, what exactly is going to take me where i need to go. Im not sure if im going to enroll next semester.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Don't forget Bill Gates did go to college - in fact, he got his business ideas/concepts in college, met his partners there, etc. He just didn't finish his degree.

College is also great for making friends, especially in areas you have an interest in. Many of my hobbies were developed in college, and even now I'm starting to turn them into businesses, I wouldn't have done so without friends at college.

So no, college alone isn't useful, but the people you meet there are invaluable.


(But call me biased - all colleges/universities in Australia only costs $8000 a year, and the government gives you an interest-free loan too)