Validation

[Rollo Tomassi]

A post in another thread by ZEKKO got me to thinking about men feeling validated in their lives by means of sex or achievement, or any number of other contrived ways to rationalize feeling good about themselves.

I have never understood this want of validation in sex. At 42 I can honestly say that I have never sought or experienced what I consider personal validation from any of the many women I've ƒucked. They were hot, we were horny and I banged them without any consideration of anything beyond experiencing them sexually. I didn't go pop off to my friends about it, I didn't swell with pride, I didn't 'carve a notch on my bed post', I didn't really think much of it past it feeling really good and wanting to hit it again. I like sex for the sake of sex.

Now, I'm sure doubters will think, "yeah, well you got SOMETHING more than just the physical out of it", and while that's all nebulously true to some extent, it seems to me it's more of an attempt to shame a guy for having more sex than the average person by assuming he's doing so just to build his ego via sex. So now we attach a defacto 'purpose' for guys to have a lot of sex or want to have a lot of sex. "You have so much sex because it validates you. You're a flawed person and you seek validation in ƒucking. You only ƒuck so much because it builds up your reputation with the boys."

This of course gets easily extrapolated into all aspects of Men's lives - seeking validation in work, play, socialization with friends, fame, hobbies, etc. It becomes another operative social convention with the latent function of shaming an individual for something they do well or have a measurable degree of success with. Practically anything that could be remotely self-aggrandizing is fair game. Never is their any question about the person engaging in what they enjoy doing it for their own love of it.

 

[backbreaker]

I wish you could tell that to my dad. Man has wasted his life chasing tail in the hopes of getting some type of validation.

I have found, when I like me and I like the general direction of my life, I don't need, nor really care, for the validation of the opposite sex or sex in general. I mean it's nice and all but I don't seek it for validation purposes.

It's like, when you aren't happy with yourself, you seem to go out of your way to see if other people are happy with you if that makes any sense. You need to be happy one way or the other. Either you are going to be happy with yourself, seriously happy with yourself, or you are going to start to seek approval/validation from other sources.

Every time I got into that "mode", the self seeking validation mode, i can draw a thick, direct line with me not really being happy with some aspect or multiplier aspects of my own life. When I am happy, I really don't give a dang.

And it's not necessarily money, ti's just.. like, I can be broke, but if I know I am busting my ass and doing what I need to do, I'm good. I can have money but if have become lazy, all I will do is try to flaunt it to get the validation I need.

 

[samspade]

Try approaching it from the viewpoint of a recovering AFC. Frustrated, he comes here and learns new principles, applies them, and after many attempts and incremental successes, he finds out he can nail the 9.5 he never thought he'd have.

Obviously he'll come back here with his field report and get plenty of positive reinforcement from the rest of us, and perhaps some more advice. High fives all around, keep up the good work. That's a form of validation, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

For guys like that it just takes experience - many more failures and successes - until they eventually don't need the validation any more and are just in it for the pleasure of pursuit and sex.

However, deep down I think even the alpha-est player gets some ego gratification from his conquests, however small. That doesn't necessarily "validate" everything else the man is; I'm sure he could care less what people think, if he's satisfied.

Perhaps I am confusing rationalizing happiness with true happiness. But I believe we are lying to ourselves if we don't take some small degree of pride in these things. Usually they are just like any goal - you see something you want, hatch a plan, execute it, and enjoy the spoils of victory (or learn from your mistakes). Is that so bad?

 

[KarmaSutra]

There's something with experience where a man knows the difference between gratification and validation.

Gratification is having her drip sweat onto you as she bites her bottom lip, riding herself to another glorious orgasm.

Validation is hoping you're the man who's in her mind while she's cowgirling.

Men know, without any doubt, the time you're allowing her to share with you, she's with YOU; Body, mind and cvnt.

 

[runner83]

Social validation

Social Validation, also called "Principle of Conformity and Consensus", in compliance is a phenomenon in which people are more willing to take a recommended step if they see evidence that many others, especially similar others, are taking it.[16] The human need to fit in is very strong and tends to make us comply in order to be a part of the majority.

Gratification is the pleasurable emotional reaction of happiness in response to a fulfillment of a desire or the fulfillment of a goal. A person may proudly say they are gratified upon achieving a hard won goal.

The need to conform to the expectations of society is very strong. If you are seeking validation for what you do, you are dependent on the opinions of others and subject to whatever they think. You will never be truly happy.

Whereas if you set a goal for yourself because you want it, get out there and achieve it for yourself, then there is nothing better.

Always ask yourself: "what should I do for my best interests?"

 

[azanon]

I don't buy the notion that many people are having multiple sex partners for validation.

Validation is clearly the endeavor of the person struggling with insecurity of varying types. Some people have a lifetime struggle with it. We all know that person at work that's insecure. Though I'm not a psychologist, I could see dependent, histrionic, or borderline personality disorder individuals seeking sex for purposes of validation.

But most people - men - I think just want to make sure that they've tried all the "flavors", if you will, and just want to make sure they've experienced everything life has to offer, including the varieties of women out there. It would be quite logical for a guy who's only been with 3-4 women, to be jealous of his friend who's had 50, simply because it would be logical to presume that the one who's had 50 has had the opportunity to experience more of what women have to offer overall. One doesn't need validation for motivation. Simply wanting to experience big breasts vs. small, tall vs. short, caucasian vs. asian vs. black, etc - you get my drift - is more than enough motivation. Besides, to go brag to your friends requires one looking like a tool, and real DJs have no interest in looking like a tool to anyone.

I haven't had sex for purposes of validation, I know for a fact. I've had few enough that I ought to be able to give the exact number, but TBH, I couldn't tell you the number if i tried. Why? Because one has to be preoccupied with it - motivated by validation? - to have even bothered to count.

If you've had over 20, and you know the exact number - then you probably are doing it because you're insecure. Seek some professional help if this describes you.

 

[Tazman]

It's impossible to determine whether someone is doing something to feel validated or because they enjoy it, because these things aren't mutually exclusive. People enjoy validation.

I do think the term is used for shaming though, especially by guys who may not be getting the sex they want, with whom they want, when they want it.

 

[Jitterbug]

I thought validation in this context comes from womenspeak as a way of projecting what they're after onto men and the things we do.

 

[st_99]

IMO, this becomes less and less important or even something you think about once you have enough sex with different girls to where you feel like you've done your fair share, whatever number that may be. At this point in my life, I feel like yeah, I've had enough to where i don't feel like i've missed out or anything and so now its more about quality.

 

[Colossus]

Everyone needs validation, in some form or another. So thinking that the "sex for validation" model is wholly an operative social convention is just applying your personal lens to different people with vastly different stories and emotional wounds.

There are most definitely people who seek and gain personal validation through sex. There are those who seek it through bodybuilding, through cars, through serial relationships and through their mothers. The obvious problem is---albeit not obvious to them---is that they are filling up a bucket full of holes. The validation makes them feel whole and fulfilled for a brief time, then it seeps out because of whatever developmental event or deficit caused it and they have to go out and get it again.

Getting some validation from positive sources is healthy. Take lifting or bodybuilding for example---it always feels good to hear someone say "you're looking huge man", or "your arms are jacked!". As long as that's not a disproportionately large part of your identity you are fine, because a healthy guy should get validation through a number of things: his accomplishments, his family, friends, taking responsibility, and weathering a storm.

When one thing becomes the primary vehicle with which you seek to find validation for who you are and what you do, it is a disaster waiting to happen. That said, I definitely think there are some women (and men) who use the original example as a shaming tactic...in fact I would say the "ego validation" card is one of women's favorite BIG GUNS they pull out when they want to cut into a guy who is p!ssing them off....maybe because he wont fvck HER or maybe because that's just what they have been conditioned to say.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

If you've had over 20, and you know the exact number - then you probably are doing it because you're insecure.

Heheh,..good thing I can't remember the exact number then. Hell, I can't remember most of their names.


Here's something else to consider though, The Self-Righteous AFC:

You see, when an AFC clings to the mental schemas that make up an AFC mindset it requires a constant need for affirmation and reinforcement, particularly in light of their glaring lack of verifiable success with women while clinging to, and behaving in accordance with the mindset. I forget who's signature it was, but to put it best, AFCs are a bunch of crabs in a barrel - once one get to the top to climb out another drags him back in. The AFC needs other AFCs to affirm his blatantly obvious lack of success. He needs other AFCs to tell him, "don't worry just be yourself" or "she's just not a quality woman because she can't see how great a guy you are."

So when an AFC finally does get a second date and then finally does get laid it becomes the ultimate validation for his mindset. "See, you just have to be a nice guy and the right ONE really does come along." This is when the self-righteous phase begins and he can begin telling his DJ/PUA friends that he's "getting some" now without all the Positive Masculinity claptrap. In actuality he rationalizes away all of the conditions that lead up to him getting the girlfriend and the fundamental flaw that he's settling for a woman "who'd ƒuck him", but this doesn't stop him from claiming a moral highground. His long wait is over and he's finally hit paydirt.

Here we have the inverse situation. The white knight, beta, AFC who's ego-investment in finding his ONE and clinging to some idealized set of convictions about only banging one 'special' girl achieves personal validation (or vindication) once he gets laid for the first time.

 

[JT7890]

Okay but Rollo, follow me here.


Take a guy like me for example. I'm 27, struggled with women throughout high school, early college days were "ok" then I hit a very hard time in life that left me homeless. I got out of extreme poverty towards the middle of 2009, and I also started to develop better confidence, work on my looks etc. In other words, I didn't really truly start having success with women or really getting anywhere with women for the most part until the mid-20's. That's over 20 years of struggle.

Those 20 years develop all sorts of internal issues of abandonment, isolation, etc, that literally I feel like I have conquered LIFE now and in a way I have. A guy goes from being on the street to where I am right now financially, academically, etc., that's a true American story.

So, when I take a look at the success I'm having with women right now as far as getting laid and them giving me the serious time of day PERIOD, compared to all of the shyt I've been through for 20 YEARS, I DO look at it as an accomplishment considering my past. Rollo I've been on the burge of suicide many times. Being homeless without a family member, a friend, or anybody that gives a rat's a.ss about you is very difficult to deal with.

Now, here's another way to look at it. Look at it this way. Look at the state of the dating market. 2011 American woman are horrible, you know that. For the most part, the majority of them if they didn't have pvssy between their legs they would just be a LAG and a LIABILITY to your life instead of some form of asset. Women can wear you the fvck down if you let them, because they come with this entitlement attitude, a sense of it's "all about me and fvck your needs," and it just gets old very fast. Couple that with their committment to the lower bottom of the barrel "so called men" out there (thugs, gangstas, dope dealers, guys wayyyyy worse then some fvcking "bad boy" or "jerk" that you guys talk about on here) then you have all of these issues AT ONE TIME going on, hell yeah it's an accomplishment to find a quality woman in spite of all this shyt!

Hell yeah, if I find a quality woman despite everything I've been through and the current horrible state of this fvcked up dating market in 2011, Rollo I will come here and make all types of field reports about it and beat my chest loud as hell because I would have literally OVERCOME soooo much bullshyt.

So I don't think you can put everybody in a box. It's obvious you haven't been through what I've been through. The success I'm having right now in life PERIOD, in all areas, is a miracle.

 

[samspade]

This just shows you have to have a lot of different things going on in your life. If it's all about your sex life, or all about your job, or all about one hobby, the moment something bad happens the "validation" you feel will crumble.

Examples - many stand up comedians live and die by the approval of the audience. They kill and it's a high; they bomb and it's devastating. Lots of coaches feel the same way - in fact many do not enjoy wins as much as they despair over losses. These are people who spend 23 hours a day on their passions. Passion is good - goals are good. But investing that much of your happiness in one single outcome is unhealthy, especially so if you are not enjoying the journey. You can say the same for dating, pickup, romance, whatever you want to call it. It's a big part of the journey from AFC to DJ, I think. So many men take women and sex far too seriously - they live and die by the poonanny.

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - wrong with savoring your successes, and that includes your happy experiences with women. (Corollary - disappointment after failure is also allowed and encouraged. Just don't wallow.) Sharing stories with buddies is okay, I think, as is reminiscing in private with a smile on one's face. Sometimes lay experiences are wildly entertaining, and of course they teach us things. If it were all about sex, we could all easily be validated after seeing a prostitute, when we know to seduce a woman (however easily) is more rewarding.

The distinction to be made is whether your entire life is built around one thing, or if you derive happiness from many pursuits.