Update

[Latinoman]

I wrote a post on how to deal with the telephone conversation (he didn't know how to reply to her)...and in there I mentioned that one-hour convo was VERY excessive. I suggested 5-10 minutes at the most.

But before I post that LONG post...I put it in a word document so I could ask for the age (as for some reason I thought we were talking about a 23 year old woman). When he told me her age...I deleted the document.

 

[Charm]

Her life and interests are better spoke about in person, if you go down the route of phone calls when you come to meet you, will be all dry for topics of conversation. Or the women maybe content to phone relationship type behaviours and push you to phone games, which will cost you in the long run! This is not just money but dates also, keep phone calls light and to the point of setting up meetings only!

I WANT TO TRIPLE EMPHASIZE THIS as I have actually experienced it numerous times during AFC one-itus expos. I thought that lots of time spent on the phone before a date would mean we'd have really good rapport but it actually meant we had a lot more trouble finding interesting things to talk about since we'd talked so much prior to our first few dates. Don't let the long-time gap between setting up the date and the date itself throw you into AFC mode. See other women. Also, you can still call her and chat for 10 minutes, see how her day was, tell her you were thinking about her and wanted to just call and say hello but that you are busy and cant talk long. These keep her hooked until the actual date.

Lastly' take what we all say with a grain of salt and do what you want. You will learn your lessons as you need to learn them. Be careful not to get your time wasted here with this lady though. Stop trying to use words also to communicate and use your actions on your next date to escalate. STOP WORRYING ABOUT HER PAST and start WORRYING about YOUR FUTURE!

 

[Cancerian]

I can't believe nobody is b1tch slapping this guy for spending an hour talking to her on the phone. That tells her your AFC and don't have a life. You should never talk to a women for more than 15 mins. Phone should only be used to set up dates. Its all apart of the female drama, getting you to have long talks on the phone.

Dude, we just ended up chatting about stuff, and she knew that I had just put my kids to bed, on both a school and a work night.

Finally, Latinoman is right, you shouldn't be wasting too much time on this 42 yr old. Just because Ashton Kusher is dating one of the hottest 40 yr olds on the planet doesn't mean that all 29 yr olds should be goin after dried up used pvssy. She's no Demi Moore so stop trying to justify your actions. She's single at 42 for a reason. She's got major issues. If she was a high quality women, after her divorce, she would have found a replacement in her mid thirties before she became 40 and over the hill.

Sometimes things happen at any age that results in a split. There are NONE of us on this or any other forum that are immune to it, as much as we would like to think so. People seem to be overlooking how many times that I mentioned the 23 y.o. and that I'm going out this weekend with or without her (to meet more chicks).

While I can appreciate everyone's concern, I honestly could care less if people that I do not know personally (or even if I did know personally) agree with my actions or not, since I do what I want. I came here for advice and tips for this or any other woman, regardless of situation and age.

 

[Cancerian]

But 1 hour on the dam phone! I hope she phoned you also!

I was surprised at how much time went by. Yes she called me twice and text'd me as well. I did not dial her number at all yesterday.

 

[Cod3r]

^ ^ Don't let these folks get to you, take what you need and ignore the rest but it does help to stay open-minded

I don't see anything wrong with long phone convo's but maybe that's because i've been outta the game for almost a year and i've been whipped into shape by an innocently manipulative woman... hmmm


-Cod3r

 

[Cancerian]

ok read your thread now


Ok first was the one hour conversation.

I am just going to pick things out here from your post.

Date set up:
Your assuming way too much from this girl and her LTR.
Stating a dinner date was weird! could imply a lot of things.
I would have progressed it and asked her what she prefers!
Then followed it up and not made a conversation about dinner dates, assumed about other BF or AFC labels.

I plan to do this.

Her life and interests are better spoke about in person, if you go down the route of phone calls when you come to meet you, will be all dry for topics of conversation. Or the women maybe content to phone relationship type behaviours and push you to phone games, which will cost you in the long run! This is not just money but dates also, keep phone calls light and to the point of setting up meetings only!

Actually, I got a lot of info from the convo to have topics and sub-topics for future convo's for a month.

Also she is taking the lead, no responding about going out? I have no idea why, what was the purpose of the phone call?
Set up a meeting based on facts not assumptions.

We are extremely busy at work, she just moved, been seperated since April (could be she is interested but not ready, who knows?)

Work situation, be careful with work related relationships, they can backfire. Also I would limit kino away from work if she complains about your persistence (which is a possibility at any stage) and your witness doing kino moves e.t.c, it could be translated as sexual harassment and pervy behaviour. Keep kino away from the office and for DATES!

Dating co-workers can get very messy, you have made it even more messier by taking away the discretion and made it public.
She may have liked you but your actions are borderline stupid, no offence. Some have already pointed it out.
To include others from work just made the situation heighten, instead of relaxed.

I think that I am handling it well with regards to the work situation. Any kino I've done is very slight, like touching her elbow to get her attention.

The women is 42 she has two kids, she may not have had a man in a while and is keen for one.

She may have interest due to her age.

An hour on the phone does equal she likes you, since she would not waste that much time, it could also mean she is lonely, another plus on yourside as she may be looking for companionship.

Also I would question why she is divorced or single at 42 with two kids, it would raise questions.

I'm sure I'll know exactly what she wants or doesn't want at some point.

Your also acting like this is going to be a relationship.
Are you sure this is a good move?
A 42 year old women with two kids, is this the best you can get?

I wish people would stop focusing on the fact I asked this woman out, and disregarding that I have mentioned another one, and that I have mentioned plans to meet chicks and get #'s this weekend.

She probably thinks what the hell does he see in me and you know she would be right!

Who knows.

What are you doing?

Asking the woman out on a DATE!

Also cancerian stop assuming what this women wants, FFS man!

I assume she has had too many as*holes in her life, wtf is that>?

I never assumed anything. I speculated that maybe she didn't want another a$$hole in her life (meaning a man like her ex), and is worried about dating any man at this time, since any man could be like him. The guy isn't liked very well from what other people have told me.

cancerian your not practicing DJ skills on this chick at all, what you are doing is qualifying yourself for a LTR with her ground rules. If this turns out that way.

No. I asked her out. My co-worker was trying to play match maker. Woman called me. Thats it. If anything comes of this, its my rules only. After an 8 year h3ll-marriage, I won't put up with too much B.S. ever again. I say "too much", because there is always going to be a little. I accept that as a fact of life.

Nothing you have done shows this is your game, this is very much her game and she is fundumentally playing with a little boy!

I sometimes play by different rules and am still learning some things. Sometimes, I do things for the sheer h3ll of it.

first rule:
stop assuming every, dam thing.

Ok, check.

Take charge in situations.

Stop letting control take over.

Ok. I thought I was by asking her out. I haven't asked her back out since. Phone call was essentially damage control from the auto-AFCing done by co-worker.Otherwise, check.

Either get your result or wait it out, not settle for her frame i.e chatting for an hour, living by her rules her dating set up.

Check.

your a busy guy with a life, you not at her discretion.

Check. Will be busy this weekend.

You need to take more charge of what you want and stop allowing assumptions to qualify the control that others are having or justifying things that are not going your way.

I hear you.

You cant have everything!

No, but we as men can try.

Now next time you speak to make it clear you either want a date! If she turns you down, simply ask her when she is free, if she gives you some stupid remark then MOVE ON! instead what you will do is assume your not an AFC or an As*hole and try to make small talk.

Check. Thats the plan.

get the hint and grow those balls, now is the time

I have balls, I actually do more DJ style sh1t with the younger chick.

Oh and use women over 42 as FB only.

Man, that would be hot! Honestly, I'm not about living with any woman right now, and not for a long time. A couple of FB's would suit me fine.

Thanks for your advice and insight. While I may not necessarily agree with all of it, I appreciate it and any more that you may wish to add.

 

[Cancerian]

^ ^ Don't let these folks get to you, take what you need and ignore the rest but it does help to stay open-minded

I don't see anything wrong with long phone convo's but maybe that's because i've been outta the game for almost a year and i've been whipped into shape by an innocently manipulative woman... hmmm


-Cod3r

Thanks man!

 

[Cancerian]

Also, you can still call her and chat for 10 minutes, see how her day was, tell her you were thinking about her and wanted to just call and say hello but that you are busy and cant talk long. These keep her hooked until the actual date.

I like this idea, and will remember to apply it when necessary.

Lastly' take what we all say with a grain of salt and do what you want. You will learn your lessons as you need to learn them. Be careful not to get your time wasted here with this lady though. Stop trying to use words also to communicate and use your actions on your next date to escalate. STOP WORRYING ABOUT HER PAST and start WORRYING about YOUR FUTURE!

Thanks!

I understand that some dudes on here are all about 18-29 y.o., any woman, woman that never had LTRs, wants to sleep with 1000s of women, etc, etc. Each person has their own belief and take on a given situation. I'm actually getting a kick out of many of the replies that seem to be attempts at bustin' my ba11s! Its all good.

 

[Latinoman]

Too much grief...too much drama...too much effort for what?

A past primed 40+ year old insecured single-mother woman that also happens to be a co-worker and 10+ years his senior.

Now...if that is NOT AFC...then I don't know what it is.

 

[Latinoman]

Some of the advice that put you in the defensive mode actually come from people that frequently post in the Mature Forum.

 

[Cancerian]

Some of the advice that put you in the defensive mode actually come from people that frequently post in the Mature Forum.

Gotcha.

Too much grief...too much drama...too much effort for what?

A past primed 40+ year old insecured single-mother woman that also happens to be a co-worker and 10+ years his senior.

Now...if that is NOT AFC...then I don't know what it is.

Its called, getting a piece of MILF-a$$.

 

[jonwon]

Gotcha.



Its called, getting a piece of MILF-a$$.

Look sorry if your on the defensive, suppose i should have seen it and others.

But the points still stand, your investing far too much attention to a milf!
Far too much attention.

Your work (ok one work buddie, but gossip spreads like wild fire imo) almost knows your lvl of attraction.

You are investing wasted time on futile ventures, with no return and no set up or dates.

I wonder if your playing the nice guy game, where by trying to show your not a jerk or an ash*hole to get in her pants?

This seems secondry to what you are stating!

Sorry i dont want to bust on you, but i would imagine your not seeking exactly what you want and the result as ended up in a bit of a mess!

Can it be salvaged?

There is a sticking point and that is work, it is also the fact you want to be not seen as an ars*hole.

Work:
You fu** this women whislt showing nice guy traits is giving out the wrong message, this could back-fire at work. She maybe seeing you as a BF since most of your intraction as been around trying to be the nice guy and 'get to know her'. I would tread carefully here, since a FB in my experiance, you should not invest too much attention or attachement and you MUST NOT make out your a BF just to fu** her. That is the path of the Ase*hole, the one your trying not to be.

If you want her as a FB, then you need to get her out on a date and not keep doing BF type stuff, which in fariness you are doing!

My points stand, ask her out then leave it at that, when your out with her make it clear you dont want a relationship, but you find her attractive and would like to take it further, without the rest of it. See what she thinks.

Because atm your trying to sex this up by doing BF or AFC manouvers in the hope she may put out, leaving you in a bad situation!

People are only posting since they are offering advice, not to bust your balls (well there is a motive for that) they dont want to see you get fu**ed over!

Thats why your getting advice, if it is hard to take, well maybe you will understand, when you stuck with two kids a 42 year old and you did not take the advice posted! And got out of it a good sh** (even though i find it about 30% chance at this rate) without any extra BS involved.

I think this may have gone past FB stage atm, but it is early days yet.

Maybe let things cool down that start doing the right things and not acting like the BF things on her terms.

Gaming more women is a very very good thing, probably the best you can do.

If you want a LTR, then continue what you are doing, but please lower the tone alot with this girl, she is a work buddie for starters!
Keep conversations light on the phone, take her out on dates and build up convo' get to know her e.t.c.

But be concerned with alot of red flags and there are alot!

 

[MacAvoy]

Its called, getting a piece of MILF-a$$.

I've never met a 42 yr old MILF. When I think of MILF, I think hot 25 yr old, not some washed up 42 yr old.

I've dated a number of 40 year olds when I was in my 20's but I wouldn't call them hot, they were good fvcks but not hot. Once you get them naked, you'll see what I'm talkin about.

The only way this would could be smoking hot (naked) is if she works out like crazy. I guarantee you from what you described she doesn't do that.

 

[Cancerian]

Look sorry if your on the defensive, suppose i should have seen it and others.

But the points still stand, your investing far too much attention to a milf!
Far too much attention.

Your work (ok one work buddie, but gossip spreads like wild fire imo) almost knows your lvl of attraction.

You are investing wasted time on futile ventures, with no return and no set up or dates.

I wonder if your playing the nice guy game, where by trying to show your not a jerk or an ash*hole to get in her pants?

This seems secondry to what you are stating!

Sorry i dont want to bust on you, but i would imagine your not seeking exactly what you want and the result as ended up in a bit of a mess!

Can it be salvaged?

There is a sticking point and that is work, it is also the fact you want to be not seen as an ars*hole.

Work:
You fu** this women whislt showing nice guy traits is giving out the wrong message, this could back-fire at work. She maybe seeing you as a BF since most of your intraction as been around trying to be the nice guy and 'get to know her'. I would tread carefully here, since a FB in my experiance, you should not invest too much attention or attachement and you MUST NOT make out your a BF just to fu** her. That is the path of the Ase*hole, the one your trying not to be.

If you want her as a FB, then you need to get her out on a date and not keep doing BF type stuff, which in fariness you are doing!

My points stand, ask her out then leave it at that, when your out with her make it clear you dont want a relationship, but you find her attractive and would like to take it further, without the rest of it. See what she thinks.

Because atm your trying to sex this up by doing BF or AFC manouvers in the hope she may put out, leaving you in a bad situation!

People are only posting since they are offering advice, not to bust your balls (well there is a motive for that) they dont want to see you get fu**ed over!

Thats why your getting advice, if it is hard to take, well maybe you will understand, when you stuck with two kids a 42 year old and you did not take the advice posted! And got out of it a good sh** (even though i find it about 30% chance at this rate) without any extra BS involved.

I think this may have gone past FB stage atm, but it is early days yet.

Maybe let things cool down that start doing the right things and not acting like the BF things on her terms.

Gaming more women is a very very good thing, probably the best you can do.

If you want a LTR, then continue what you are doing, but please lower the tone alot with this girl, she is a work buddie for starters!
Keep conversations light on the phone, take her out on dates and build up convo' get to know her e.t.c.

But be concerned with alot of red flags and there are alot!

I have to go to the store, so I don't have a lot of time to respond to each point ATM.

As far as the nice guy stuff, she knows I'm not 100% like that. We tell each other dirty jokes. I neg her a little here and there. I've mocked co-workers in ways that have had her laughing her a$$ off. She has seen me pissed off, and has seen me have bad days at work. She has seen me not put up with any sh1t from people. Etc, etc.

I started to mention that I wasn't looking for a LTR by mentioning that we each got out of a sh1tty LTR, don't necessarily need to be in another LTR, and that we could have fun. But meanwhile, I will pursue other chicks.

 

[Cancerian]

I've never met a 42 yr old MILF. When I think of MILF, I think hot 25 yr old, not some washed up 42 yr old.

I've dated a number of 40 year olds when I was in my 20's but I wouldn't call them hot, they were good fvcks but not hot. Once you get them naked, you'll see what I'm talkin about.

The only way this would could be smoking hot (naked) is if she works out like crazy. I guarantee you from what you described she doesn't do that.

It can also depend on genetics. She wears clothing that shows off enough that I am interested in seeing what is underneath. I'm telling you, she doesn't look her age. But hey, I don't need to convince anyone of that.

 

[Charm]

The main thing is that if you had a roster aka a stable of other women to be working on and setting up dates with, you'd be spending far less time thinking about this one woman. Having 4-5 other women in rotation would help relieve a lot of your tension and stress in this case IMO.

 

[Cancerian]

The main thing is that if you had a roster aka a stable of other women to be working on and setting up dates with, you'd be spending far less time thinking about this one woman. Having 4-5 other women in rotation would help relieve a lot of your tension and stress in this case IMO.

I'll see how I make out this weekend.

 

[Cancerian]

Fvck. I tried, but I failed to follow advice.

She likes to talk. A lot. Not that I have a problem with that, but it could interfere with the game.

How do I smoothly end a convo on the phone with this woman without coming off as cold or rude? I ended the call this time, but a planned 10 minute convo lasted not as long as the last one, but much longer than I anticipated. I even had a fvcking outline so that the call should have lasted 10min, 15 at most. I even waited 48hrs from the last call.

When I saw an opporunity, I basically said:

ME: "Well, I gotta go..." (I immediately thought that I sounded a bit cold, maybe its just paranoia)
HER: "Yeah, you have to get up early in the morning."
ME: "Yeah, and I have some things to do before I hit the hay." (like play the guitar and post on sosuave.com, lol)
HER: "I know that I talk too much!"
ME: "Nah, you've got stories to tell! Wait until I get going one of these times..."
HER: "I look forward to it! *giggles*"
HER: "Thanks for calling."
ME: "Anytime. I enjoyed our convo."
HER: "Me too. I'll see you tomorrow."
ME: "Have a good night _______"
HER: "Thanks, you too."
ME: "Bye."
HER: "Bye."

Even the convo ending process took a long time. I enjoy talking to her, but I need some ideas to keep the convo down until at least after a date or two! She is obviously comfortable with me as she talks about a lot of personal stuff. But d@mn, I fear that she'll begin to think of me more as a friend than an FB. D@mmit!

EDIT: She was in the middle of cleaning up her place, and stopped to make time for my phone call. She could have just as easily said, "I can't talk now, I'm rather busy. Call me back/I'll call you/I'll see you tomorrow."

 

[MacAvoy]

Its very simple. What you need to do is not call her to socialize at all. Call her, ask her out, when she says yes, say ok, great. I have to get going, I'll see you XXXX, have a good night, bye!

Don't socialize with her at all. Phone is for setting up dates early in the relationship. If you talk on the phone with her, it puts you on the relationship path, you don't want to go on that path, you want to appear to be the busy prize that she has to get you on the relationship path kickin and screamin (even though you really want to be on the relationship path)

 

[Last Man Standing]

You let her postpone a date until January - try to set it up ASAP - you guys are on the phone for two hours - couldn't you just meet for a drink and spend two hours talking face to face?