Unplugging from The Matrix - Confusion, Fear and Anxiety

[Tazman]

I know it's hard, but you have to try and step outside of yourself and really think about what's been pointed out to you (by Zunder in particular).

You're in "defense" mode, it's a bit of a shock to the system to think that you could've done so much wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that you clearly did things that lowered her interest in being with you.

In a nutshell, she was the leader and you the follower.

She did a good job of fluffing you up, but in none of your OP did I see any control of the pace that things were going on your part. She seemed to be taking you by the hand and guiding you the whole time.

I look at the kind of marriage my grandparents had (married 68 years, best friends, stuck together through thick and thin and raised four kids together, both just absolute gold as people and the kind of people I want to emulate) and I want that for myself, and I wonder if that is even possible at my age (33) and with the kind of women you encounter in my generation.

Looking at this from the outside seems ideal, but it's a lot more complicated in practice. People can and do change over time, not to mention we live in very different circumstances today.

 

[Findog]

She did a good job of fluffing you up, but in none of your OP did I see any control of the pace that things were going on your part. She seemed to be taking you by the hand and guiding you the whole time.

She wasn't the one that was always bringing up marriage talk and I was passively and meekly agreeing to it. It was something that was discussed 50/50.

I'm aware of Zunder's viewpoint ( beta steadily engages in behavior that lowers interest) and I've thought long and hard about it, I'm not completely dismissing it out of hand, about what I could have possibly done differently. I am well aware that the man has to be the leader in the relationship, that he makes the plans and maintains the frame. For example, you're supposed to suggest novel and exciting things to do together instead of her saying "What do you want to do tonight?" and replying "I dunno, what do you want to do?" I would vigorously dispute the notion that I started to take her for granted and got complacent in the relationship. I think there's a balance you have to strike between being clingy and smothering and neglectful and aloof and I know I walked that line.

I guess what I was trying to illustrate in the original post was that we hit it off immensely and had this great connection, and that she was consistently showing me affection and demonstrating interest. Trust me, I have a long history of experiencing when a female is not into you. Her words and her actions until the day she left seemed to be in perfect alignment. What are you supposed to do differently when you are consistently rewarded for what you are doing? I know what obvious and declining interest looks like, trust me I experienced that all throughout my twenties. That's not the kind of behavior that she really modeled.

I'm not going to say that I was perfect in the relationship or never made mistakes, but I think those occurred at the margins. As far as lessons learned to take with me, after awhile I assumed that things would work out, that I had relationship security, and I will never make that assumption again. I will never again internally put all my happiness eggs in one basket because now I know a woman can and will leave, even when things seem to be very good on the whole. I've experienced relationships that deteriorate and end. This wasn't like that. Externally there's some things I would change but I don't think my approach requires a drastic overhaul. Internally I just wasn't prepared for the possibility that things might not work out and I'll never do that again.

 

[Die Hard]

Whether he acted beta or not is unimportant. This bytch was definitely cluster B and he just got mindfukked by her. The amount of alphaness needed to control a cluster B is UNREAL, pretty much anyone who makes the mistake to get into a relationship with one of those bytches will act beta. Very few men will be able to maintain themselves in a relationship with these creatures.

So fukk that whole alpha-beta discussion regarding Findog's relationship. His mistake was not that he acted beta, his mistake was getting involved with a psychobytch. I think it's bullsh!t to tell Findog that he should act more alpha if he wants to make sure that he won't end up in this kind of relationship again. If he doesn't want to end up in this kind of relationship again, he should make sure he stays away from cluster B psychobytches like these. THE END.

When it comes to other women, the alpha-beta discussion is very relevant. When it comes to cluster B bytches, the alpha-beta discussion is not very relevant.


Findog, get the fukk out of this thread coz it is only messing with your mind, what with you defending your behavior during that relationship and all. When was that? More than a year ago? Man, that's ancient history... The bytch is in the past, so let go of the past and move on. You've learned important lessons from it, by yourself and by our comments here. So just take those lessons and apply them in the future. Now go, the future is there, it's waiting for you. Go and get it, instead of dwelling on the past and picking up negative vibes in this thread.

 

[Tazman]

Without getting into a discussion about the whole alpha-beta dichotomy, there are certain behaviors that are attractive to women and some that aren't.

I think the whole cluster-b personality disorder is thrown out way too much around here, it's a cop-out.

Findog, I'm not saying you're lying, but I've known guys who claim to behave one way while I can clearly see they aren't and are unaware. At the end of the day none of us know you personally and can only guess based on what you post.

 

[Zunder]

I watched a documentary last night, it was actor and actress, husband and wife: Bryan Brown and Rachel Ward on a horse trek through the Kimberley in the Aussie outback.
Brown basically took the mickey out of Ward the whole trip, but in a way that had her giggling and laughin and basically adoring him. You can tell she is deeply in love with him, and Bryan Brown has no more status than Rachel Ward as they are both reasonably famous actors but what Brown has is GAME - good quality game - he is not a JERK he is a LOVABLE ROGUE.
Bryan Brown is not that good looking in my opinion (no homo) but Rachel Ward still looks good (must be in her 50's now) and when she was younger jesus was she hot.
As hollywood marriages go theirs is unusual in that they have been together for many years - and after last night I can see why - Brown is a natural.

Findog needs to get it out of his head that we are telling him to be the total JERK.
But still, thats probably better than what he was with this broad.

 

[Findog]

Without getting into a discussion about the whole alpha-beta dichotomy, there are certain behaviors that are attractive to women and some that aren't.

I think the whole cluster-b personality disorder is thrown out way too much around here, it's a cop-out.

Findog, I'm not saying you're lying, but I've known guys who claim to behave one way while I can clearly see they aren't and are unaware. At the end of the day none of us know you personally and can only guess based on what you post.

I am well aware of the importance of being a guy who can be ****y and funny and tease and keep a girl on her toes. I was not some pushover that constantly sought approval, was always nice no matter what, never stuck up for myself.

 

[countermart]

Zunder thinks be Alpha and all your problems will be over with women. Let Zunder have his view.

The fact is you are better off without this woman, there were plenty of red flags. Alpha, not Alpha, its lucky she exited before you actually got married.

Now go find another girl x2.

Countermart

 

[I'm in the Mood]

One way to think about a valentines day card being beta is that it's blatantly unoriginal. Also, giving her a card BECAUSE she gave you a card is beta. You can't appreciate the value she's trying to give to you without reciprocation. The Alpha way is to give her a card because YOU WANT to. What YOU want, I believe, is the root of all Alphaness. Taken to an extreme, this can lead to being a total jerk, but taken in light of how your actions may affect other people, in other words, being responsible, can make this really work.

A problem I see here is that people in general are very susceptible to outside ideas. For example, she mentions getting married, you haven't thought about this yet, the way she explains it to you convinces you, "why not get married?" and for the most part you are going along with it HER WAY. All of the details in your OP are like you speaking your point of view of her amidst details about yourself, and it's overall a story about HER, not you. You pretty much went along for the ride and didn't take control of the marriage thing. Another example: you kept going along with HER to weddings with HER family members. This is OK because who doesn't like going to weddings, but it seems like she was the one leading you around and bringing you into her life.

I don't fully understand the differences between Alphas and betas, but I would like to, and I suggest you figure this out for yourself too.

 

[Zunder]

One way to think about a valentines day card being beta is that it's blatantly unoriginal. Also, giving her a card BECAUSE she gave you a card is beta. You can't appreciate the value she's trying to give to you without reciprocation. The Alpha way is to give her a card because YOU WANT to. What YOU want, I believe, is the root of all Alphaness. Taken to an extreme, this can lead to being a total jerk, but taken in light of how your actions may affect other people, in other words, being responsible, can make this really work.

A problem I see here is that people in general are very susceptible to outside ideas. For example, she mentions getting married, you haven't thought about this yet, the way she explains it to you convinces you, "why not get married?" and for the most part you are going along with it HER WAY. All of the details in your OP are like you speaking your point of view of her amidst details about yourself, and it's overall a story about HER, not you. You pretty much went along for the ride and didn't take control of the marriage thing. Another example: you kept going along with HER to weddings with HER family members. This is OK because who doesn't like going to weddings, but it seems like she was the one leading you around and bringing you into her life.

I don't fully understand the differences between Alphas and betas, but I would like to, and I suggest you figure this out for yourself too.

Wise words from a 19 year old.

 

[Findog]

One way to think about a valentines day card being beta is that it's blatantly unoriginal. Also, giving her a card BECAUSE she gave you a card is beta. You can't appreciate the value she's trying to give to you without reciprocation. The Alpha way is to give her a card because YOU WANT to. What YOU want, I believe, is the root of all Alphaness. Taken to an extreme, this can lead to being a total jerk, but taken in light of how your actions may affect other people, in other words, being responsible, can make this really work.

First of all - here is the Valentine's Day Card thing. We went to Seattle for my birthday two weeks before Valentine's Day. We were at the downtown Seattle Library and they had these artsy fartsy cards, a step above what you would get at the local Hallmark shop. I had the sales clerk distract her while I bought one. Two weeks later on V Day I give her the card. Then she pulls out a card that she bought from the exact same place. We did it independently of each other. I know V Day is a commercial holiday meant to sell chocolates and greeting cards, but you damn well it's not going to go over well if you don't do anything for your girl at all. So to clear up any confusion on the V Day card, I did what I wanted to do without worrying about what she was going to do for me to mark the occasion.

A problem I see here is that people in general are very susceptible to outside ideas. For example, she mentions getting married, you haven't thought about this yet, the way she explains it to you convinces you, "why not get married?" and for the most part you are going along with it HER WAY.

Wrong - I was the first person to bring up marriage. After we had been dating for a while, I began to look at her as wife material, because things were going great, because I was at an age where I wanted to settle down and start a family, and because she was beginning to win me over and seemed to exhibit a lot of qualities you would want in a wife (stable in her job, didn't cause drama in the relationship, said she wanted the same things as me - children and settle down).

You pretty much went along for the ride and didn't take control of the marriage thing.

That's not really how it went down. After we had been together awhile, I mentioned marriage along the lines of "You know we've been seeing each other for a while, and I really think there is long-term potential here. I'm at a point in my life where I am looking to start a family with the right person. I'm not saying we should run out and elope tomorrow, but I want to make a life with you." And she said she felt the same way, and from then on it was a mutual understanding. You know how girls are, they have been planning this since they were kids, so we discussed different ideas about where we might get married and so forth and batted them around. I don't consider it her leading the way on that.

Really, all the wedding talk I put in the original post was just to illustrate how blindsided I was by the timeline - I mean, five days before you break up with me you're talking about engagement rings, so how could I have anticipated what was going to happen? There wasn't a lot of distancing or withdrawal in her behavior. I know what diminishing interest looks like and there really wasn't a lot of that there.

Another example: you kept going along with HER to weddings with HER family members. This is OK because who doesn't like going to weddings, but it seems like she was the one leading you around and bringing you into her life.

We ended up going to one wedding together before she dumped me. First wedding was for a work colleague, the second wedding would have been for a friend, and then the third and fourth weddings were for her close personal family members. These weddings would have been spread out over a period of four months. I honestly do not see anything wrong with telling her that I would accompany her to these weddings as her date. I was her boyfriend, I consider that as boyfriend duty. She did certain things for me when we were together that I'm sure she wasn't thrilled about but that falls under the category of girlfriend duty. There were some things she wanted me to go to from time to time (wedding shower for an acquaintance of hers that I barely knew) that I did not consider boyfriend duty and I told her I had other plans. I don't see wedding attendance as an issue at all. I don't think agreeing to go to them with her as her date caused her to lose respect for me. Nobody will convince me otherwise.

I don't fully understand the differences between Alphas and betas, but I would like to, and I suggest you figure this out for yourself too.

I had no dating life whatsoever until I was 25. I've come a long way in shedding AFC habits and behaviors. I've gotten way more action and had more relationships in the last 5 years than I ever did before that. No guy is an alpha 100 percent of the time, but I honestly don't think that is why this relationship failed.

 

[highSpeed]

Questions

Guys, although I'm new here and still rehabbing from a terrible divorce, I have to say I'm really wondering why we're beating up the OP for being AFC. Yes, he may have done some of those things but doesn't the female have any responsibility to live up to?

I have read some of the other threads discussing things like keeping a strong frame and I agree and being alpha, I agree there too. The big question that came to mind when I saw this thread is, "How can you be strong all the time?"
What happens in a relationship when you may be going through a weak time? Does the woman get a free pass to do whatever she wants because you are weak at the moment? God forbid you go through a health problem or whatever else where you can't be alpha and controlling of the frame.

 

[countermart]

Mate stop trying to analyse women, often there is no cause or logical run of their decision making processes. You will not be able to reach some logical point where you went wrong or she went wrong, or solve “her problem”. There is not always cause and effect with women. You are making a basic man’s mistake of assuming there is a logical approach and that you can solve it, or solve her, or solve you.

If you want to know what alpha is it is only one thing...Go after what you want without apology.

Countermart

 

[I'm in the Mood]

I had no dating life whatsoever until I was 25. I've come a long way in shedding AFC habits and behaviors. I've gotten way more action and had more relationships in the last 5 years than I ever did before that. No guy is an alpha 100 percent of the time, but I honestly don't think that is why this relationship failed.

I'm no expert in women and dating by any means, in fact, I've never been on a date before, but I think that your relationship failed during that 20 minute chat you had before you broke up. You will likely never know WHY because women think with their feelings, and it was some feeling that she had that caused her to question her entire relationship with you. It might have been that she was scared of actually being married, she might have decided that you were too good for her, or she even could have realized that she likes another guy more than you. Whatever the reason, it doesn't matter, because you won't ever find out unless she is especially intuitive enough to know for herself why she broke up with you. Yes, these instances could be seen as incredible puzzles for you to solve, but it's not worth solving the mystery, because it will only teach you more about HER, not about YOU. It's her feelings that led her to break up with you, and the only way you could have prevented it is by changing her feelings during that 20 minute conversation. If you sense someone is about to break up with you, sometimes it's a good idea to leave and give them lots of space until (and if) the feelings go away.

Sorry if I got you all riled up with my post earlier, I wasn't trying to point our your mistakes, but rather to show you certain distinctions between Alpha and beta characteristics. Most of my assumptions were wrong, but I hope you can see that all of this wasn't entirely your fault. Most of it was the girl, being who she is, and maybe she's not yet ready to be in a long term relationship that lasts longer than a year. Who really knows anyway...but it's not worth the time to worry about that. This is a place for learning and moving up in life, not wallowing in past experiences and trying to solve complex questions with no one true answer.

 

[window]

I think the problem is asking for marriage i.e FOREVER after only being with her 4 or 5 months. You are moving way too fast and basically taking any challenge out of the equation. Such decisions shouldn't be contemplated until at least two years...you should thank your lucky stars that she didnt tell you she was pregant before departing.

 

[typical]

Why on earth are you still here fighting over defending your actions from a relationship that ended over a year ago ??? Honestly mate, nothing good is going to come from ripping your head apart trying to work out exactly where it went wrong.

What I understand is you have a very conservative and traditional oldschool way of thinking about love relationships and marriage. You need to sit back and take a third persons view of what happens to yourself and other people in relationships and figure out the answers.

Some people get lucky or are too scared to be alone so they start dating someone semi reasonable and get engaged and married within a year and portray a "happy" marriage to every one else because they were too afraid to be alone and create the ideal lifestyle forthemselves. This is their choice not yours they either got lucky as some do or are scared as most are.

I'm years younger then you and even I say she let you believe you held the cards to the relationship but when she decided to call it quits we can all see who had the upper hand and it was NOT YOU.

From now on you will never ever consider a woman who has a troubled history as relationship material, take it from me it never ever works out. No matter how hard you try they will screw you over and you will be sitting there wondering what on earth happened.

Women like this are only good as a casual FB nothing more. Go out spin plates date many women and from there choose the best ones to keep or one if you want to get married.

In investing and finance terms its called spreading out your wealth for increased returns and lowered risk. You invested into one gold egg that had a crack in it that your careful eyes overlooked and now that the egg is broken you're left with a huge mess to clean up. If you invest in many eggs I'm sure a few will give you the returns that you want.

 

[496 Alcamino]

Okay..nobody else did it...so I will.......

The most important, telling, whole thing in a nutshell sentences in this major post, garaunteed to answer all your questions...ignored by most.....ARE.....

She told me at the beginning that most of her relationships were short-term because the guys would annoy her and she had only two previous that lasted as long as a year.


I started dating my ex two years ago when I was 31 and she had just turned 30. It ended at the one-year mark just over a year ago.



She said she’s never been in a relationship longer than a year and she always does this.


You sir bought a front row seat (by thinking you were the "one" to change her) to this womans next train wreck.

It hurt bad when the train wrecked...you can't believe you were warned but got on board anyhow...

All said from a fellow passenger...in a different wreck no less severe...who is VERY careful on which train he rides now.

Stay here...read and learn more...do much better next time

 

[SAYNO]

First, thanks for the paragraphs. It's nice to see someone who doesn't demand that I work hard to read his story. Most new guys here with a long story make one huge block of text, and I don't read those.

"I will always care about you, and thank you for letting me be a part of your life". That sums up the beta mentality that you are currently unplugging from. She said "Awwww" because to her you had become a lttle puppy dog. Sick.

The guys are right that the warning signs were abundant. Far more important than her actual history was her statement that she always ended relationships at a year.

Her aggressiveness in wedding proceedings was probably a compensating mechanism for the breakup that she intuited would inevitably happen. She herself knew that her inner mechanism would deploy, or more accurately she sensed it looming on the horizon. Hence her over-compensation with all that wedding stuff. She was trying to rationalize her way out of the bomb that she sensed was coming from within herself. She knew that it was about to happen.

Your grandparents lived in an earlier time when women were relatively sane. In the past 40 years we have witnessed women become brainwashed and rendered insane (unable to think rationally) to an alarming degree, close to 100%. The media latched onto what made them feel good, it fed them what they wanted to hear, and now they are living in illusion, largely divorced from reality and largely unable to think. They only feel.

That's why sites like this exist today. Welcome to life outside the matrix. There's no going back, you know. The only thing you can do now that you've had a dose of reality is to learn game the best you can and continue to obliterate the illusions you lived under all your life.

It's not pretty here in Wonderland. But it's real. I have come to believe that women are not even capable of loving a man the way a man can love a woman. She can only love the way he makes her feel. I wish I was wrong, but I don't think I am.

Still, I don't give up hope that I'll find a woman who acts with a reasonable amount of integrity. I'm no longer looking for the "equal" I was looking for all my life. I always looked for a woman who had the same character traits as I, never realizing that they aren't capable. We have to accept them for what they are, and come to terms with their inability to live by princple, as we men strive to do. Living by principle is coveted by us, but abhorent to women, as it impies taking responsibility for one's actions, something a woman can never do. They ALWAYS need to see an "out". You found that out and now you are unplugged. You said that you suppose unplugging is necessary. You're already unplugged. You can't go back. You can't choose to for your eyes are opening.

GOLD!!! Every freaking word is worth a million dollors!!!:rockon:

 

[Zarky]

Kind of a sad thread from months ago. The OP put on a show of some of the purest beta chumpstyle pathos I've ever heard of, Zunder called him out on it very accurately, and he blew it off.

I think the problem is that all guys have to get their hearts smashed in a beta-riffic way at some point in their lives. The younger, the better. Mine happened when I was 17. OP was unfortunate that it didn't happen to him until he was in his 30s :O His followup comments show that he still hasn't learned anything from it. He most certainly has not swallowed the red pill.

EDIT:

Another point I'd like to make is that pretty much all deeply religious dudes I've ever met are super-betas. I think that religion's fundamental objective is to order society in such a way that makes men into provider chumps. If you want to really unplug you'll have to unplug from fantasies about ghosts and souls and gods and sh*t like that as well. People who are willing to believe in one absurdity that society tells them to believe in are far more likely to believe in others.

 

[Warrior74]

Kind of a sad thread from months ago. The OP put on a show of some of the purest beta chumpstyle pathos I've ever heard of, Zunder called him out on it very accurately, and he blew it off.

I think the problem is that all guys have to get their hearts smashed in a beta-riffic way at some point in their lives. The younger, the better. Mine happened when I was 17. OP was unfortunate that it didn't happen to him until he was in his 30s :O His followup comments show that he still hasn't learned anything from it. He most certainly has not swallowed the red pill.

EDIT:

Another point I'd like to make is that pretty much all deeply religious dudes I've ever met are super-betas. I think that religion's fundamental objective is to order society in such a way that makes men into chumps. If you want to really unplug you'll have to unplug from fantasies about ghosts and souls and gods and sh*t like that as well. People who are willing to believe in one absurdity that society tells them to believe in are far more likely to believe in others.

It's called the opiate of the masses for a reason. Anyway its the same ole SS business. Guy comes here baring his soul, some poster (it used to be me) blast him with some hardcore reality, OP gets his feelings hurt as he's already vulnerable and gets defensive, lots of crosschannel talk from other posters. OP withdraws, a few months or years later OP returns with a "You guys were right". Classic thread is classic.

 

[wait_out]

Findog mate, without taking into consideration everyone's advice in this thread, how do you feel about it all now in hindsight?