Unplugging chumps from the matrix

[GrowingPains]

@Roober , your post about your 3 friends in the other thread got me thinking. For those that didn't read, the summary is this; Roober's got 3 friends, each an AFC in their own way and like many of us, he prefers to talk/hang out with people who are like-minded (ie; not these 3 friends). I can relate, with varying degrees, which brings me to my question:

How do you all go about unplugging chumps from the matrix? When your friend is displaying obviously beta behavior, how far do you go in letting them know? Do you micro-dose the red pill by lightly engaging the topic and ask them questions that might help them realize why they're struggling or do you shove the red pill down their throat until they stop choking and swallow it whole? Of course, it takes someone wanting to change to actually change. But I'm curious what your approach is/what you've found most successful. I typically take the first approach as if they're willing to change, then they'll want more and they'll naturally ask more questions.

Do you guys share red pill advice with your friends? I feel like it's a responsibility to do so. Otherwise how would they know about it?

"...but my intent here isn’t to provide you with a list of criteria that qualifies an AFC (“you might be a chump if,..”), rather it’s to give you some basic understanding to clarify the term, and round out the idea of what an AFC is. Needless to say these mental schema are some of the impediments to unplugging, or helping another man unplug, from his old way of thinking. As I’m fond of repeating, unplugging chumps from the Matrix is dirty work. Expect to be met with a LOT of resistance, but understanding what dynamics you may harbor yourself or those that a friend might cling to will help you in moving past the years of social conditioning. It’s thankless work, and more often than not you’ll also be facing a constant barrage of **** tests (from both women and feminized men) and ridicule in your efforts. Be prepared for it. Unplugging chumps is triage – save those you can, read last rites to the dying."

- Rollo

 

[sazc]

I micro doses red pill to my kid and my male friends. TBH my male friends are SO relieved when they listen to me.

Example:
Male friend was introduced to a lady. In an effort to get to know her, he friended her on Facebook and started PMing her random stuff about music and things they had in common. It WAS a bit AFC and turned her off BUT this B runs back to their mutual friend and starts talking about how he is stalking her. And it really put my male friend off - he started to question himself deeply because he thought he was just being friendly and she would respond.

We chatted about it and I pointed out that if she really felt that way she could have simply told him it was too much OR hit the "unfriend" button VERY EASILY but she didn't. I told him the reason she didn't hit the unfriend button was because she was loving the attention. And, if she was loving the attention, he definitely want stalking her.

By the end of the conversation he felt much better AND was starting to realize that women did attention seek, and he needed to start looking for that.

Micro dose

 

[zekko]

We chatted about it and I pointed out that if she really felt that way she could have simply told him it was too much OR hit the "unfriend" button VERY EASILY but she didn't. I told him the reason she didn't hit the unfriend button was because she was loving the attention.

Sounds like saying this guy was stalking her was actually her way of bragging to her friends about it. While probably not really being interested. Like you said, the poor guy was probably just trying to be friendly and gets that sh!t thrown in his face. No wonder guys get bitter dealing with women.

 

[sazc]

Sounds like saying this guy was stalking her was actually her way of bragging to her friends about it. While probably not really being interested. Like you said, the poor guy was probably just trying to be friendly and gets that sh!t thrown in his face. No wonder guys get bitter dealing with women.

I didnt even think of that angle, but you could very well be correct. Probably a combo of both.
It irritates me to NO END when people dont hold themselves responsible for their own behavior, but try to blame or shame others.

 

[Alvafe]

its called red pill because the person have to choose, do they take the red pill and start to learn, or take teh blue pill and keep living your live like nothing happen. you can't force, you can guide then though, every once in a while you will heard you friend talking about it how he did good or failed and you notice then the guys who do well are the ones who do things they like.

what sazc said is a good thing, small doses when the subject is being the talk of the moment and then you drop your view,

I could tell several examples but I don't think would matter now, its a pretty simple thing to do

 

[Roober]

It is very difficult. Many of the men that visit this place never get truly unplugged. If a man finds SS, and continues to have problems, he is very likely still plugged in.

And it is not easy by any shape of the imagination. One of my buddies wife left him for a complete and utter loser (35, living at home, no job, etc.). Now my buddy was a stay at home dad, so he certainly had his issues as well.

I went with the military approach, which was wrong. I preached to him, and gave him Rollos book and the way 9f the superior man. Needless to say, he didnt learn squat, and still bounces between new flames every couple months, falling hopelessly in love each time... it's no wonder why his kids are struggling with his divorce so much... now, he doesnt listen to anything I have to offer. I have another buddy on a similar path, and hopefully my renewed tactics can help him better.

What I've learned is they have to want to change. Meaning, you give very very little advice, and they have to set their ego aside (many men cant do this). You just listen. And ask questions. Where will this path take you? Where do you want to be? Etc etc.

I think the problem is that we want to help the people we care about, so much so that we end up doing quite the opposite. This is done by exercising patience, and waiting for the right questions by them. Advice must be minimal, and it is better if they issue the advice themselves.

Jordan Peterson January 2019 q+a actually summed this up really well recently. Listen at the 25 minute mark. I would also recommend client-centered therapy by Carl Jung. I should be starting that in February.

 

[Serenity]

Shoving it down their throats won't work. People go on the defensive immediately if you promote anything too hard and they'll be less likely to change. I will intentionally avoid using the concepts commonly thrown around here, like "AFC" or "red pill" etc. because using those terms just increases the confusion and some of it may sound too aggressive to be helpful for a beta. I will casually and naturally get into the topic and use common language to convey the core wisdom in it. I will speak my mind and reason out why I think the way I do, but I won't directly confront their opposing opinions as that again just makes them defensive and the discussion is stalled. I'm just planting the seeds, make them reflect and consider a different point of view, these types of things usually need to feel like it was their own idea to be effective (it's an ego thing). They might not agree right away, but may think about it later and have a different realization.

If they ultimately don't change I don't care, I'm being well intentioned and if they won't take it that's their loss really.

 

[GrowingPains]

I agree with a lot that's here. You gotta let the person come to their own realization. You can usher them along but in a kind of... covert way. I can relate to this from project teams I've lead. The team feels the most responsibility and is best at completing the job when you allow them to come up with the solution to try. Even if you knew the solution you wanted them to arrive at all along and you ushered them towards it.

If you just told them to do it (shoving it down their throats) they'd be all "welp, here's ANOTHER thing I have to do because my boss told to me to" and they'll dismiss the importance and not really feel any buy-in to the project. Whereas the former approach results in more of a "I want to see if this will work because I believe in it" mindset.

The difference in the approach is the difference between "so and so wants me to do this" and "I want to do this". Fsho.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

"Thou shalt not cast thy pearls before swine" it means a man shouldnt perform acts of generousity or be let himself be used by an ungrateful woman.

 

[Ranger]

Unplugging is a pursuit by a man who knows the world is wrong. It’s off somehow and he can’t put his finger on it.

Trying to unplug a man who is not looking is not advised. He doesn’t deserve the red pill. He is not aware enough to see the wrongness of our civilization. It is systemic in nature. If he can’t see something is off...he will attack. Overtly or covertly.
He is an enemy.

There are a few here that are actually here to thwart the efforts of unplugging despite claiming to be Red pilled. They are quite convincing yet are actually sicker than the world actually is.

A man actually self unplugs. He starts seeing the nature of the world as it really is. The PUA arts were a road in but are actually a hindrance. The Book of Pook explains this. It actually makes it harder to unplug a guy who studies PUA. He thinks because he can get laid that he understands the nature of the world we know. Yet never understands what masculinity is.

You don’t unplug a man...he is ready to unplug himself.

 

[lamath]

I micro doses red pill to my kid and my male friends. TBH my male friends are SO relieved when they listen to me.

Example:
Male friend was introduced to a lady. In an effort to get to know her, he friended her on Facebook and started PMing her random stuff about music and things they had in common. It WAS a bit AFC and turned her off BUT this B runs back to their mutual friend and starts talking about how he is stalking her. And it really put my male friend off - he started to question himself deeply because he thought he was just being friendly and she would respond.

We chatted about it and I pointed out that if she really felt that way she could have simply told him it was too much OR hit the "unfriend" button VERY EASILY but she didn't. I told him the reason she didn't hit the unfriend button was because she was loving the attention. And, if she was loving the attention, he definitely want stalking her.

By the end of the conversation he felt much better AND was starting to realize that women did attention seek, and he needed to start looking for that.

Micro dose

From my experience this is very common from some women.

She was beta shaming him and bragging about it ofc, it sad because for many men its a big hit on their self esteem.

When i was younger my first job was in a lab with mostly women, and i remember them telling each other about men hitting on them, was all about shaming them for hitting on them.

I think it did have an effect on me and probably why im am still a bit insecure about going after women. im lucky because women do hit on me from time to time.
Imagine the effect something like this could have on someone less fortunate.

Need to train myself to ngaf, getting better at it.

 

[Ranger]

When i was younger my first job was in a lab with mostly women, and i remember them telling each other about men hitting on them, was all about shaming them for hitting on them.

It’s actually them one upping each other about men hitting on them. It’s a bragging thing. An ego stroke. It’s just the ones they reject. The ones they don’t reject? Well that a different type of story.

 

[lamath]

It’s actually them one upping each other about men hitting on them. It’s a bragging thing. An ego stroke. It’s just the ones they reject. The ones they don’t reject? Well that a different type of story.

Yep what a man do to hook up with a women is only creepy if the women is not interested.

But still those kind of thing can screw with the mind of some insecure guy.

 

[Serenity]

From my experience this is very common from some women.

She was beta shaming him and bragging about it ofc, it sad because for many men its a big hit on their self esteem.

When i was younger my first job was in a lab with mostly women, and i remember them telling each other about men hitting on them, was all about shaming them for hitting on them.

I think it did have an effect on me and probably why im am still a bit insecure about going after women. im lucky because women do hit on me from time to time.
Imagine the effect something like this could have on someone less fortunate.

Need to train myself to ngaf, getting better at it.

The only way to reduce the chance this that I know of is heavy use of subcommunication. To hit on her without directly coming across as hitting on her. That your behavior and communication can be interpreted in more than one way, like they wonder "was he hitting on me or was he just talking?". They won't as easily make fun of you to friends, because they weren't really sure that you actually were hitting on them. This also has the effect that you'll have a greater chance of being on their mind, they might try so hard figuring out what the last encounter with you meant. This could increase her interest as she wants to see you more to figure you out. As she gets more and more sucked into it though you can be more and more direct, giving her a sense of achievement for figuring it out, a positive emotion.

This is a bit of an advanced communication skill, but it's a great way to flirt if you can master it. Some of the more clever women are aware of this and realize right away what you're doing, but that isn't always a bad thing because they might be impressed that you can do it at all considering the amount of guys who are more crude.

No point fearing that you'll mess up and they'll talk behind your back, that'll happen sometimes and isn't a big deal. Better to mess it up than to be paralyzed with fear and not take any action. Being passive is what you should fear.

 

[GrowingPains]

No point fearing that you'll mess up and they'll talk behind your back, that'll happen sometimes and isn't a big deal. Better to mess it up than to be paralyzed with fear and not take any action. Being passive is what you should fear.

"Rejection is better than regret."

 

[lamath]

The only way to reduce the chance this that I know of is heavy use of subcommunication. To hit on her without directly coming across as hitting on her. That your behavior and communication can be interpreted in more than one way, like they wonder "was he hitting on me or was he just talking?". They won't as easily make fun of you to friends, because they weren't really sure that you actually were hitting on them. This also has the effect that you'll have a greater chance of being on their mind, they might try so hard figuring out what the last encounter with you meant. This could increase her interest as she wants to see you more to figure you out. As she gets more and more sucked into it though you can be more and more direct, giving her a sense of achievement for figuring it out, a positive emotion.

This is a bit of an advanced communication skill, but it's a great way to flirt if you can master it. Some of the more clever women are aware of this and realize right away what you're doing, but that isn't always a bad thing because they might be impressed that you can do it at all considering the amount of guys who are more crude.

No point fearing that you'll mess up and they'll talk behind your back, that'll happen sometimes and isn't a big deal. Better to mess it up than to be paralyzed with fear and not take any action. Being passive is what you should fear.

Well said, however subtility is not.my forte.
But i can try it and if it does not work
Ill just learn to.not give a ****.

Im just missing experience in approaching.all my hook up before my ltr was women approaching in a very obsvious way.

 

[GrowingPains]

Well said, however subtility is not.my forte.
But i can try it and if it does not work
Ill just learn to.not give a ****.

Im just missing experience in approaching.all my hook up before my ltr was women approaching in a very obsvious way.

How often do you approach?

I find, as you probably already know, it gets easier the more approaches I do. It also helps to take the pressure off of yourself by considering the following things:

1. I'm approaching this person for me, fvck what they think. I'm bettering myself.

2. It's just a conversation. My goal is to chat and get to know this person a little better. Not to fvck or get their number. You may actually want their number after talking to them but it will help you to be less attached to that as a goal.

3. If you do want to keep talking to them: Does this person deserve to get to know me? Do they deserve my number?

 

[lamath]

How often do you approach?

I find, as you probably already know, it gets easier the more approaches I do. It also helps to take the pressure off of yourself by considering the following things:

1. I'm approaching this person for me, fvck what they think. I'm bettering myself.

2. It's just a conversation. My goal is to chat and get to know this person a little better. Not to fvck or get their number. You may actually want their number after talking to them but it will help you to be less attached to that as a goal.

3. If you do want to keep talking to them: Does this person deserve to get to know me? Do they deserve my number?

i dont approach often, but often see ioi.

Good advise and mindset. Will try and follow it.

 

[Serenity]

Well said, however subtility is not.my forte.
But i can try it and if it does not work
Ill just learn to.not give a ****.

Im just missing experience in approaching.all my hook up before my ltr was women approaching in a very obsvious way.

Subtlety isn't as hard as it sounds. I know it sounds tricky to wrap your head around, but it's no more complex than to go up and start a casual conversation about something mundane. The rest is just spotting the opportunities and coming up with sentences that have a double meaning that fits the context of the conversation. Observational skills and listening skills are more important than trying to force your mind to figure out the next thing to say, that will come by itself if you pay good attention outside yourself. You just weave your interest for her into something related to your immediate surroundings, the current topic, context or your response to what she says.

The hardest part about this is letting go of "the plan" and trust that you'll know what to say when the time comes.

I wasn't good at this at all to begin with. I'd easily seize up and it would turn awkward or the conversation became cold and flat. I went in having imagined how it could play out, like I was planning the approaches and trying to rehearse for every possible scenario. The problem was that it rarely played out according to my expectation and my system clearly wasn't adaptive enough. So I started going in without a plan, just approach, introduce and take it from there. Sure, at first the conversation was flat. But after overcoming the fear of doing it by just doing more of it I began to have fun with it. Just picking out something I found interesting in the environment or talk about whatever random thing I thought about in that moment. Through observation and listening I never run out of things to say. The next development was subcommunication, to communicate without explicitly stating it. This is facial expression, body language, voice intonation and talking implicitly. This is too much to micromanage without seizing up, so that wasn't going to work. I then through self-observation noticed how these things were affected by my mental state, in certain states of mind these things just flowed naturally. It is a relaxed state with a clear mind, meaning there's not a lot of thought activity. That's what you need to pay attention to the moment, once you start thinking you "go blind" as your attention is diverted to your thoughts rather than your surroundings. I found direct attentional control to be very important to solving pretty much any problem I had. I feel anxiety? Redirect attention, don't feed it. Stuck in my head? Redirect attention, don't feed it. So you may want to practice that, which you can do at any time throughout your day.

Sorry for rambling, hope you find something useful in this.

 

[sazc]

The only way to reduce the chance this that I know of is heavy use of subcommunication. To hit on her without directly coming across as hitting on her. That your behavior and communication can be interpreted in more than one way, like they wonder "was he hitting on me or was he just talking?". They won't as easily make fun of you to friends, because they weren't really sure that you actually were hitting on them. This also has the effect that you'll have a greater chance of being on their mind, they might try so hard figuring out what the last encounter with you meant. This could increase her interest as she wants to see you more to figure you out. As she gets more and more sucked into it though you can be more and more direct, giving her a sense of achievement for figuring it out, a positive emotion.

This is a bit of an advanced communication skill, but it's a great way to flirt if you can master it. Some of the more clever women are aware of this and realize right away what you're doing, but that isn't always a bad thing because they might be impressed that you can do it at all considering the amount of guys who are more crude.

No point fearing that you'll mess up and they'll talk behind your back, that'll happen sometimes and isn't a big deal. Better to mess it up than to be paralyzed with fear and not take any action. Being passive is what you should fear.

IMO an example of emotional push/pull
Leave them confused, leave them guessing, plant the seed and let them fertilize it for you by dwelling on the what's and what ifs.

It can be effective