understanding this ... LJBF

[DavenJuan]

time and time again we see these posts were fellow brothers hear the words LJBF...

i have never even in my complete AFC days have heard these dreadful words.

at first i did not understand how this could be such a common term used toward us men. reading several of the threads out there some of us are strickly heart broken. cant sleep cant eat. some dont know how this happened. thought that this women loved them.

NONSENSE!

i dont want to come off insincere or seem heartless, but this is a wake up call.

if you are hearing this in any form or fashion LJBF, then the problem is YOU.

look and the mirror and ask yourself how you put yourself in this predicament.

enlighten me if i am missing something here but my thoughts are this...

the only way this could happen is if you wear your heart on your sleeve and express your dying love for this women.(maybe not to that extent, but along those lines)

turning yourself from an AFC you play the field, you spin plates. you go out and have fun. exhausting your time into one women TO THE POINT wear she feels obligated to "set you straight" should never surface the opportunity.

what are you doing that she feels she needs to clarfiy your relationship??

now dont get me wrong. she may see you really as just a friend. however if you are enjoying the company, spinning plates, there is no need for her to tell you this.

i have many female friends that i spend time with. however i have never put myself in a situation to where she thinks that my intentions may be elsewhere.

and i think the reason for that is because i act the SAME with all the women i know. so because i give her EC, use kino, a bit of C & F... it isnt intimidating because its a part of my personality with all women.

no need to "let me know LJBF"

 

[KontrollerX]

This is a good post to read and think about.

Sometimes a guy's behaviour really does bring this about and it needs to be changed for future relationships but sometimes the guy does everything right and is the ultimate DJ except for one fatal flaw...

He tried to turn a ho into a housewife.

Yes indeed the dredded LJBF can either be a result of poor AFC behaviour or poor mate selection process.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The LJBF rejection is a very well established feminine social convention. Women have used the LJBF rejection for a hundred years because it serves an ego preservation function for her. To a greater or lesser degree, women require attention and the more they have of it the more affirmation they experience, both personally and socially. The LJBF rejection has classically ensured that a woman can reject a man yet still maintain at least a portion of, if not all, of his previous attention. It also puts the responsibility for the rejection back on his shoulders since, should he decline the 'offer of friendship', he is then responsible for entertaining this friendship. This of course has the potential to backfire on women these days since the standard AFC will accept an LJBF rejection in the mistaken hope of 'proving' himself worthy of her intimacy by being the perfect 'surrogate boyfriend' - fulfiling all her attention and loyalty prerequisites with no expectation of reciprocating her own intimacy.

The LJBF rejection also serves as an ego preservation tool for her in that having offered the false olive branch of 'friendship' to him in her rejection she also can sleep that night knowing that she (and any of her peers) wont think any less of herself. Afterall, she offered to be friends, right? She is excused from any feelings of personal guilt or any responsibilities for his feelings if she still wants to remain amiable with him.

The difficulty I have in questioning the veracity of an LJBF, wondering if she was 'for real' or not is it still keeps her in a position of control. I think the default response should be to assume she is serious and take it as a rejection (and her loss) ergo, you remove the reinforcer - attention. Up until the point you made an approach for her intimacy she was enjoying the benefit of your attentions. After an LJBF response her latent intent is to keep that reinforcer of attention. Do not reward her for this disingenuous response, she will only use it on you again or with another guy in a similar situation since it was reinforced the last time this circumstance was experienced. And should the next fellow reinforce it further she will internalize this as her standard response.

Obviously the best way to enact this is to use a takeaway and turn down her LJBF. An outright refusal of her psuedo-friendship offer would be ideal, but not always possible given social settings, however a takeaway is always warranted. The problem I see with doubting her intent with the LJBF is that, most women, whether serious or not in their LJBF rejection, will almost always follow up with some kind of communication when you do remove your previous attentions. This was a previous reinforcer to her and like most animals when faced with a behavioral extinction, she will attempt to re-establish that reward. This is why if you do end up cutting all contact with her she will have a tendency to pursue - and depending on the individual sometimes more actively pursue - your attention, even if she has no intent of becoming intimate with a guy. Women do this in an effort to maintain self-affirmation (i.e. she wants to verify everything is 'OK' between you and her in an email or IM) after a rejection.

The problem is when a guy begins to doubt her seriousness in her rejection when this occurs. We always read guys on this forum state that a fellow ought to "stick to his guns" in situations of rejection and this becomes more difficult when she confuses him with an unexpected burst of spontaneous attention. It's the stripper effect only more personal. Guys will spend small fortunes on lapdances at the strip club because it provides him with something he's not ordinarily accustomed to - spontaneous feminine attention. When a woman does a follow up to a LJBF rejection after a takeaway the reaction is similar for men. Maybe she does actually like him afterall? Maybe he does have a shot with the stripper in his lap, she's giving him confusing signals in either instance.

I'm sure that there are occasions and ciircumstances where a woman will reconsider (and ƒuck) a guy she LJBFed, but these situations are far too rare to use as predicting factors, especially considering the subtle evaluations needed to judge her actual IL after an LJBF, I can't endorse attempting to reframe her initial impressions. These cases are the exception to a rule. And even in the event of successfully closing with a former LJBF it still serves her attention need and reinforces that behavior, even if just in part. I would argue that 90% of these post-LJBF lays are usually accompanied by the woman experiencing buyer's remorse or the guy must still get over the fact that her first impulse wasn't spontaneous attraction, but rather her settling on him as her only real option at that time.

All that said, any guy who is legitimately spinning plates should never be daunted by LJBF rejections. Plate theory is insurance against this. In fact the LJBF woman does the plate spinning DJ a favor by declaring this since he'll know her position and wont waste more effort on her in favor of better options.

 

[jophil28]

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Yes indeed the dreadded LJBF can either be a result of poor AFC behaviour or poor mate selection process.

Guys , write this on your fridge. It can be either.


One way to tell if LJBF is a result of your behavior or her mindset is to listen to her past with other men. At my age I have a lot of history with women who have a lot of history, so I have tons of info available to me.

Women tend to repeat their life over and over and if you listen (between their victim statements) they will tell you how they habitually behave . Actively explore how they treated their recent last LTR because that is what YOU can expect.
There is a strong thread of belief on this board that being a "man" and acting all DJ will make the difference. THis belief is analogous to the famous female fantasy that says that she can, "transform a bad boy into a sweet loving man by the power of her love" .. A truly Co-dependent delusion.

If you hear her tell stories of her cheating ( she will justify it) or erratic behavior or flaking and so on, then you can expect the same treatment as soon as the facade slips and her true character is revealed.

Most women give you early warning signs and still we ignore them because we mistakenly believe that we are MAN enough to transform her.
Believe this at your own risk.

 

[scottfall]

Most women give you early warning signs and still we ignore them because we mistakenly believe that we are MAN enough to transform her.
Believe this at your own risk.

I fell into this trap. Listend to her talk about how badly exes treated her and why she was justified in her actions. She told me I wasent like those other guys. I thought I would get the most out of her. I was wrong. I blame myself to a point, I was AFC (very supplicating). Got the LJBF a few months ago but our relationship never evolved into a true friendship. Shes been treating my like crap over the past month, finally realized im not the problem.. she is. No matter how much she blamed the problems on me. Finally moving on, she dosent deserve to have me in her life anymore.