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Unconditional Love - Anyone here man enough to do this?

sylvester the cat

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i mean if we're talking about love let's talk about the real meaning, right?

real love is unconditional, is it not? That means if you love someone truly then there are no conditions. YOu are always there for them, pick up the pieces etc like you would with your child no?

That's not fvcking easy, is it? That's hard. So any fool can walk away right? Doesn't it take a real man to show unconditional love or does that make him beta??? If so, how? If unconditional love is harder?
 

sylvester the cat

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Zion said:
Who said real love in unconditional?

If you ask me it's the exact opposite. Real love is and should be conditional. It's something you earn and keep on earning.
Interesting. Please expand on this. How do you make someone earn your love? Your child for instance.
 

Yorkex

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To me Love falls under 4 conditions that all interact with each other.
1 ) Honesty - Sorry hun , I messed up ..I used the 2k savings for a new car. Comes clean instead of lying.

2) Acceptance - holy **** I can't you will do something that stupid ! " Oh , it was because you needed it to get to work ? Okay makes sense. Next time let's discuss it though.

3) Respect - when you are away or with them ...this is ABSOLUTE. " Hun remember the last time I made a mistake and used the 2k ? Well the boys/ girls and I wanted to watch the ball game ..I will be taking 200$ from the savings tonight ..is that okay ?

4) Support - they must support everything you do , and if they can't they must follow 1 & 3 and state why they think you are doing something bad.

Problem is , it's very RARE to find all 4 in women. These attributes are easy to come by for men. That's why I ultimately believe men are better lovers than women. Women are only superior lovers to their children.
Why do you think men loves sports so much ? A good team has a locker room that all the men can voice their opinions , accept the opinions or other team mates and are also men enough to decline stupid ideas and support the good ones.
 

stevo

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sylvester the cat said:
i mean if we're talking about love let's talk about the real meaning, right?

real love is unconditional, is it not? That means if you love someone truly then there are no conditions. YOu are always there for them, pick up the pieces etc like you would with your child no? No.

That's not fvcking easy, is it? It is, it is the easiest type of love That's hard. So any fool can walk away right? Any man with value can walk away, a fool doesn't walk away, he stays, no matter what.

Doesn't it take a real man to show unconditional love No anyone alive has the potential of unconditional love or does that make him beta??? No showing unconditional love does not make you beta however showing UL that hurts you, does

If so, how? If unconditional love is harder? It's not, conditional love is harder.
Unconditional love mean you'd hold a high admiration for something till you die, however it does not mean you'd deal with that person till you die.

Family (Blood line) love is unconditional. You might not get along with your family but you'd always love them however it might be best they stay on one side of the country while you stay on the other side. This also applies to your children. This is basic love.

Romantic (Non blood line) love is conditional. You have to get along with your SO and you'd hold them in high regard for as long as they meet your condition which might carry on till you die. This is advanced love. Friendships also fall into this category.

Out of these two, Conditional love is more powerful.

Ever heard the saying, A friend close by is better than a brother far away?

For everything you do for a conditional lover, they do something back. Left hand washes the right, vice versa.

For everything you do for an unconditional lover, they do not have to do something back.

God loves us all (Unconditional) For you to get to know Him, You'd have to have a relationship with Him (Conditional).
 

Zion

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sylvester the cat said:
Interesting. Please expand on this. How do you make someone earn your love? Your child for instance.
You don't make someone earn it. They either do or don't.
Be serious, you don't even lose your children unconditionally. You expect them to make something of themselves, to hold true to your name, to always be the best the can. And so on.

If they fail you in every way possible you don't love them for who they are. You instinctively protect that which is your offspring, but that's not real love.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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Unconditional love...... Yeah sure. That's only for my brother though. And maybe my dad. Fvck your wife/girlfriend, she could get the normal love just like everyone else. If I had a wife who got mad that I care more about my brother than her, than fvck her. She doesn't get ANY love then, normal or unconditional, we're done.
 

G_Govan

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Love is simply a term used to describe "feelings."

Feelings are never static.

Nature ensures you at least attempt to procreate and compete with others for resources and the best genes. These special feelings are a part of that process. However, nature is also ruthless and unforgiving.

All relationships are conditional.
 

narcissist

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Well, seeing as no one has brought it up yet, I will give the evolutionary account of love, and then after that I will formulate what I believe to be my account of cultural/sociological love

Evolutionary Account

a] A brief account of socialization and its place in human evolution

Love, in its most fundamental and basic constituency is evolutionary. There is no running away from this fact. Human beings evolved over an extremely long period of time from simpler organisms through the process of natural selection, which ultimately "chooses" the most fit constituency of genetic disposition in a particular environment that serves as a means to reproduce and survive. Humans are an extremely complex organism, who has evolved brains that can conceptualize and socialize, in combination with a wide array of other functional tasks. In fact, this socialization was a huge aspect of our evolutionary history which developed out of our environment of evolutionary adaptation. What purpose does socialization serve? Well with out going into too much detail, (because there are literally whole text books written on social evolution) socialization serves as a means for group solidarity, which in itself is very adaptive. It allows for groups or bands of human beings to live together harmoniously and synergistically, which serves as an adaptive means for accumulation and garnering of resources (food and sex) - and ultimately increasing chances of survival exponentially so. If human beings never evolved the ability to socialize and develop social ties, we simply would not have evolved to where we are now. It is one of the most fundamental aspects of our evolution. Just think of the advantages a group of humans has in a harsh environment (predators, scarcity of resources) over 1 human, fending for himself. A group can consolidate resources with each other, and help rear offspring, with an overall more efficient means of protection for in-groups. Anyways, I will leave it at that in terms of socialization just to show you, with some evidence that socialization is in fact an evolutionary product.

b] Love as an aspect of socialization

This leads me to an ASPECT of socialization which is the topic of discussion here: LOVE. Love is a fundamental component of socialization that derives form evolutionary mechanisms. There are different levels of love and the ways in which our genetics predispose us to love, which ultimately serve different functions. Our genetics make it so that we FEEL as though love is a real emotion, that derives from some higher form of metaphysical realm. Evolution, via natural selection, has worked in a magnificent way to make it so that we think and feel that love is MORE than an evolutionary trick to propagate our genetics. This is why love is such a strong emotional bond, and why it affects us so deeply - merely because it has been written in our genetics for hundreds of thousands of years. Love is something that we can not simply "give up" if it isn't serving our interests emotionally - this is because evolution "knows" what it means if we are invested in a love bond - namely as a function for offspring rearing and production. This is why when we break up with a girl or vice versa it is EXTREMELY emotionally draining and hard. We cant simply go no contact without some turmoil. We want to know what they are doing, we want to talk to them, hold them, profess our undying love for them, look them in the eyes, touch their obscure birth mark, smell them. Its an evolutionary trick. A combination of neurological processes and hormonal mechanisms working together. Love more often than not comes with the simultaneous engagement in sex. Why do you think that is? That love and reproduction are so synonymous? This clearly shows that love and sex go hand in hand. When humans have sex there is a chance of pregnancy, which is the evolutionary imperative (propagating genetics) and thats why you grow this emotional bond towards that person because it is more adaptive for genetic propagation to stick around (through the strong emotions of love) in order to give your offspring the best chances of survival. This is also why hormones are released throughout the body when two people engage in sexual intercourse. These hormones are the starting blocks of love, and eventuate in to full blown "in love" - an evolutionary function. Evolution is a complex mechanism that is very good at what it does - which is making sure organisms spread their genetics. It will produce traits in organisms that make production of offspring more efficient. Love is one of the most efficient evolutionary functions ever produced. So much so that people have ascribed love as being derivative from an ephemeral metaphysical teleology - not a physical byproduct of our neurology. I think that is baffling. In reality, it is merely a means to keep two people bound after sexual intercourse so that their offspring has a better chance at surviving in the harsh environment. Nothing more nothing less. Now the mechanisms WITHIN love as an evolutionary construct is extremely complex - but it doesn't go beyond evolutionary construct.

c] What would life be like is love didn't evolve?

If love didn't evolve, human beings would have a very tough time surviving as babies. The process of longitudinal maturation would simply not exist as a mechanism for humans. We would have to have evolved with maturation levels earlier than 18-20 years old which would be deleterious to the development of our brain. The reason why humans can take such a long time to develop from children to adults, relative to other animals, is because we have parents that love each other and love us. We have evolutionary guardians, which supply us with protection, sustenance , and shelter. This allows for humans to develop complex and cultured minds and consciousness, without having to fend to survive in harsh environments. Take away love, and you are left with an organism that has to look for food, shelter and protection. Not an ample environment for brain expansion, and development. Arguably, we wouldn't be the intelligent species we are today without the mechanism of love. Its an evolutionary FACT that children/babies fall IN LOVE with their guardians. They develop a social tether to their guardians as a means to explore their environment. When they feel safe they will explore their surroundings, and when they feel threatened they will retract the metaphorical tether's distance back to their guardian. If they didn't love their guardian or vice versa this synergistic relationship could not happen.

Well that is merely one reason why love is integral in our evolutionary history but there are a plethora of reasons why we need to love to survive and be the species we are today.

The contradiction between social love and evolutionary love: A Modern Conflict

d] What I think about love as a cultural/sociological construct

I could literally write a 30 page essay on this topic, and Im sure one day i will get to it, but I will keep it short for the sake of parsimony and an appeal to occam's razor.

Love in our day and age is still ultimately evolutionary but people don't view it as that. We have develop and construed ideologies that ascribe love to some ephemeral metaphysics which take away from its fundamental constituency. We have reached a point in conscious awareness where we can ascribe certain expectations to love and make it fall under conditional statements. If you do a,b,c than I will love you x,y,z. We have ultimately detracted from the initial use of love and now have these conditional expectations which make love LESS stable. We want people to have "unconditional" love which is simply not possible as humans are conditional beings. We want those who love us to "love us" with a GOD LIKE metaphysical vigour, simply because of our metaphysical ascription to it. We have reached an impasse in our modern 21st century society in terms of love. We want god-like unconditional love from semi intelligent evolutionary ape organisms. Its not possible and this is one of the many reasons why I believe a lot of love doesn't surpass the honeymoon stage. We let the modern zeitgeist of love influence our conceptual paradigms of relationship expectations. Not a very realistic approach. The advice I ALWAYS give to people in terms of love is this: lower your expectations or you'll get hurt. Your evolutionary disposition (love emotions) are not meant to handle the expectations that we have placed on 21st century love.

Lastly, we have developed this belief that love is supposed to last forever. This is simply not the case. We have been developed evolutionarily to have our love last as long as offspring maturation, after that it becomes maladaptive. This is why divorces are rampant. But I don't think it is an issue. We aren't supposed to last that long, why fight it? Someone told me once that relationships have a shelf-life. That really struck a chord in my life. Its a very true statement and does not go against any evolutionary train of thought.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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But you can get rid of love though narcissist. You are able to not feel it or turn it off and on. Some people are born with genetic mutations as to not feel a wide range of motions and to only be rational which is the modern psychopath/sociopath. Most people aren't born that way, however, every single person has the potential to become one simply because we as humans are able to adapt to our environment. If someone were to go through betrayal issues repeatedly as well as abuse, then in order for that someone to survive, or at least reduce harm, he/she would need to adapt to their environment. How the individual adapts is due to the brain reprogramming and restructuring itself to make the person only look after itself. That's why sociopaths don't have empathy. In fact, those who are not naturally born this way are able to turn empathy on and off, like a switch. This is why you might hear about how sociopaths are so manipulative and so good at getting what they want (there are a few disadvantages though). They only use people for their needs and anyone who does not add to their life is not someone to associate themselves with (sound familiar?).

I believe that if one were to go through severe emotional trauma, the brain would respond by [partially] shutting down sections that are responsible for feeling emotions and would increase activity elsewhere in the brain. It's almost like PTSD except with feelings of love instead.
 

BrainDamage92

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First, youre the one with the BPD girlfriend - if you want to die keep dating her, thats all I'm saying.

Now on the matter, both sex's love is conditional. But for male love the conditions are so low, we can ignore them - if she puts out and is pretty and sticks around for long enough its a done deal. And they want the girl they fell for to never change, which is hilarious, couse you know how females hide their craziness in the begginning. This makes male love hardly conditional, and more santimental and romantic.

Female love, on the contrary, is much more conditional and pragmatic - they fall in love with what they consider and alpha male. They see some character traits like - egoism, arrogance, staying calm in the face of danger, intellect, not necessairly alot of money, but at least earning even a tad more than the other people at your work place, or having the best position, not giving too much fuks about them is another thing, also they like it alot when something agitates you, but you still are able to stay calm thinking "Lol no matter how much **** I throw at this guy, he wont beat the **** outta me". So they fall in love. And they'd rather love the biggest among mices than the smallest among cats, like a guy cleaning toilets for a major corporation, making good money off that is below the average office guy who dont make **** in their book, which is stupid but hey, their bussiness...

Their end goal is to live with you and have your babies. See, they have a goal unlike us. But, it happens so, with time they try to remove the same Alpha traits they were attracted to in the first place - they nag you when you go out with your buddies, nag you for being arrogant and egoistic, nag you for being a jerk, when in fact youre not, but this is how they work on you. But they "work on you". A female is in love as long as she works on changing you. "Hes a jerk now but I see with a little work he has potential to become the doormat I will cheat on daily."

So a problem is, when she starts feeling like she finally domesticated you, her love starts dissapearing, and disrespect occurs. It's time to walk away then. I never got brutally disrespected, couse I was always the one to break it off or walk away (not that I have that much experience). This is man's job. You must never be too blind to see when disrespect aries. And all women are the same in this. If you become too domesticated, too easy to reach, too comfortable, too "there for them all the time", they lose their love. The tactic to keep her in check is moderate disrespect and her knowing you have other options. See modern women apply the same strategies, only it pushes, at least me, away, because theres only so much **** I can take... The amount of **** women can take while still loving you is infinite... This is why talking stuff like women and men are not much different is stupid.

I know for a fact, women dont dwell on stuff much after you break up\walk away. They snap their fingers and the new fool waiting in line comes into play. Youre still the hurt party, because your love was stronger, male love is always stronger, but I've seen friends lose their dignity, like this dude's GF of 3 years left him for his cousin (lol what a faggot cousin btw). He shared with me half an year earlier that he suspects something like that. He even refused to go to work in Holland so that he can keep an eye on his GF. How retarded is that? See, this is why you always have to be willing to break it off, this is the only way *****es will learn they are not cream of the earth - couse you know, women pull the heartless possible ****, then act innocent.

This is why, esp at my age, I wont deal with that **** anymore. **** that **** man. It almost killed me once. I wont risk it again. Females dont have a heart - their brains are like ****ing calculators.
 
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ArcBound

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sylvester the cat said:
i mean if we're talking about love let's talk about the real meaning, right?

real love is unconditional, is it not? That means if you love someone truly then there are no conditions. You are always there for them, pick up the pieces etc like you would with your child no?

That's not fvcking easy, is it? That's hard. So any fool can walk away right? Doesn't it take a real man to show unconditional love or does that make him beta??? If so, how? If unconditional love is harder?
You make the mistake of saying that if something is hard, only real men do it, which is not true.

Then you keep using the example of a child. Love is a catch all word used to mean manythings.

But rest assured, you do love a child differently than you love a woman, differently than you love your parents. Otherwise you belong in a jail or a mental institution.

All love is conditional, just the condition gradually lessens as we get older.

If you are married to your wife for 15 years, then she cheats on you, gains a ton of weight, mistreats you and your child, I assure you, whatever love you have for her will start to go away.

If your child rebelled against you, ran away from home, became a serial killer in your hometown, etc. your love would also go away. Go listen to parents of serial killers. Many of them say they wish their child was never born. Go listen to parents whose children put them into a foster home instead of taking care of them in their old age. They HATE their kids.

Love is conditional always whether you like it or not. Just the conditions are lessened to those we like, those who are our blood, those in our family.

Lastly you judge your entire post on a big assumption. "real love is unconditional, is it not?" You ask a seemingly rhetorical question, but please do tell, where did you get this definition of real love. Quite curious. Did it come from a religious standpoint? You know not all people believe in your religion right? Did it come from an evolutionary standpoint? Because that doesn't support love is unconditional either as far as I can tell.
 

JohnyTheArrow

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Unconditional love is good for novels and fools.Smart person never gives all the power away because it will make you powerless.Thats why women despise betas who despite being desrespected dont walk away , they are powerless and weak.

There is not such thing like unconditional love its only unconditional weakness, you are because of some reasons too weak to walk away.

There is nothing to discuss.People who whine about unconditional love are mostly low value men and women and its pissing them off they get dumped.They demand something forever despite their value decreased, its emotional terrorism.Love me not because great but because you own me some fantasy romantic love.

Now imagine .... unconditional love .. you fall in love ...then she cheats on you,disrespects you,gets fat and nasty,abuse you ... but hey .... you are suppose to love her no matter what,right.Love is love ...right.

Love is walking on eggshells.Its always fight about power and value.Thats it.Leave fantasy for fantasy books.
 

BrainDamage92

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You have to understand, to keep a woman you need 2 things, forget about love:

- Dont buy into her crap too much.

- Have other options.

The stupid thing is females apply the same strategies nowadays which is repulsive too me. Females have low self esteem and orbiters are there because of this.

Female+male friendship is only there couse either:

a) the dude is a loser and cant get into her pants so he opts for frienship;
b) the girls is fat and ugly and the dude is handsome and she opts for a frienship;

But no females forgot how to acrite. All I need is woman who shows that theres noone else, that Im the one. But where do I find one. Modern females think that if the tell you all the time about how nice other men treat them, and how great the coworker Joe is, and how you should behave couse X,Y,Z orbiter is ready to hold her in his arms so you better watch out.

See this is how us is supposed to act not them - a woman needs to feel she is your numer one, not the only one, for her love to stay strong.

Its all very ****ing twisted nowadays.
 

jurry

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Love is not exclusive or conditional. Love is "god", for lack of a better word. It is the state of being.

When you turn love into an object or a person, then it becomes something else (attachment, obsession, desire, etc.) which is not love at all, though the word is frequently used. It is separating one out of the many and trying to hold onto it for yourself, delusion basically.

A true DJ must learn the real love, which isnt based off of expectations or a particular outcome, but learning to be present and to embrace the world around him. Then women, "success", and everything he needs comes naturally, as opposed to the endless, stressful struggle of the AFC trying to get a girl, trying to get a little piece of the world to call his own, and therefore ever afraid of loss, envious, and incomplete.
 

mikey2012

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There is no such thing as being IN love. It's the chemicals in your brain messing with you.

As for love (i.e. caring etc) for someone. It is better to receive than to give it. There is no quid pro quo. People are inherently selfish.

Is forgiving your wife and taking her back after she cheated on you for more than year (premeditated) unconditional love? Are you man enough to do this?
 

:-)

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mikey2012 said:
There is no such thing as being IN love. It's the chemicals in your brain messing with you.

As for love (i.e. caring etc) for someone. It is better to receive than to give it. There is no quid pro quo. People are inherently selfish.

Is forgiving your wife and taking her back after she cheated on you for more than year (premeditated) unconditional love? Are you man enough to do this?
This.
 
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