Trouble memorizing patterns?

Sir_Chancealot

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Anyone else have trouble memorizing the patterns?

I have absolutely ***NO*** trouble memorizing things, but for some reason these patterns seem real hard to memorize.

Anyone else experiencing the same thing?
 

Vronski

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I did. About a year ago.

At first you just read them and think: 'cool, now I know what to do', then you get out there, sit in front of a girl and try to tell her a pattern.

When you are doing this, there are so many things that will go wrong. First of all, it will sound memorized, second, your body language will close and you will look like you're lying, third, she will ask you questions 100% of the time, fourth, the pattern rarely matches the girl you're trying to get hot. You stall in the middle of the convo, you dont get good responses from the girl.

I struggled with it for a really long time and still was not able to come up with good success rate using patterns.

I'll explain more in next VSSM lessons.

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_-=/Comrade Vronski\=-_
 

MattB

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When you deliver a pattern, is it better to use the "go with the flow" pattern.

This means that you deliver the pattern, as usual, but add words like "you konw", "and yeah" so that the pattern seems to be more natural?

I will try this on my next "date" or encounter with a new girl.
 

Sir_Chancealot

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No. I have no problems DELIVERING the patterns. I only have problems MEMORIZING the patterns.

Let me put it this way. My job requires me to do a LOT of studying/research/etc. I can go through 50-60 pages of technical stuff without batting an eyelash. I am having problems memorizing a 3/4 page pattern.

See what I mean.

You know those guys in college that could read the material once, and get an "A" on the test? I was one of those guys.

It's kind of weird for me, because memorization of things have always come so easy for me.
 

Vronski

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Well, I'm a technical person too, I can read through tech materials and absorb it, and will get an A. But if its technical stuff, then you can just grasp the general idea, picture it in your mind and go from there.

When you are memorising a pattern you HAVE TO deliver it word for word. If you miss something or stall you'll have to make up them by yourself anyways.

Technical stuff is logic and maybe 3d imagination.(depending on the stuff you do) Memorising patters is about PURE CRAMMING. Logical people are not good at it. (My experience, I am surrounder by logical people)

I take it that you are analytical kinestetic. Logic is developed. So feel the idea crystallizing in your brain: a weasel phrase floating around and stopping, then a command verb comes from the right and grabs onto the weasel phrase. Then the horny desired state comes behind the command verb and start doing its ditry business. And these 3 things are chained together and will float in your mind forever. Then they will come out and will lay any girl you want.

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_-=/Comrade Vronski\=-_
 

JustDoItAlways

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Yeah, I'm like you Sir_Chancelot, I am usually good at remembering things, but patterns have been hard to memorize. They are just not natural, but that's why they work.

There are two answers to this. First, you need to practise them in real life. Two or three tries with some after-time analysis helped me nail them the next time.

Secondly, you don't have to deliver them word for word. Although the embedded NLP is important in a pattern, the general tone and tact is usually more important to the chick. They fantasize all the time and fall asleep at night dreaming about being seduced this way. They'll put their own NLP into it.
 

SexPDX

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Sir Chance, the reason you have trouble memorizing patterns more than other things is that they are not a form of communication that is designed to target the intellectual mind. That is the sort of thing that most guys are used to memorizing, I had the same issue. You say you can deliver them well, that's important. After that, more important than the exact words that are said is the conversational framework in which they are introduced and the overall themes.

Instead of memorizing the exact words focus more on the structure.

- Conversational framework

Example: "I was reading this article the other day and it got me thinking..."

Another thing I like to do is entice her to provide me with part of the conversational framework I need to do the work. In Vancouver last weekend I had a girl talking to me about something I can't even remember apart from she kept using the words "rush of adrenaline" so I asked her if she liked rollercoasters. Sure enough that got her going on for 5 minutes about rollercoasters. After that, it was pretty easy to go into the Discover Channel pattern.

- Introduction of Overall Theme

Example: The Difference Between Compulsion and Anticipation.

- Descriptions

If she is still with you after the first one (doesn't interrupt) keep going untill you have gone through 3 of them. Make them examples of widely generalized experiences that most people have had and lay weasel phrases with embedded commands all up through it.

The ultimate goal with SS should be to become a person who likes speaking about deep themes in seductive language structures narturally. Not that I am against memorizing or writing scripted stuff, that's a lot of fun too. I am just saying that unless you walk the walk and talk the talk 24/7 it's unlikely you will ever get REALLY good at SS. When you are genuinely interested in these sorts of things yourself then you talk with so much passion normally that when you go into some scripted pattern you have either made yourself or memorized from the layguides there will not be anything perceived as different from how you normally communicate.

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"Dare to aim high." ~ DeepBlue

"Embrace the unknown." ~ Mystery

"Every human being has so much to offer, it's whether they are willing to give it that makes or breaks their relationship with me." ~ Gunwitch

"All you can do is make sure that YOUR game is tight and your skills are intact. Be prepared for anything and play YOUR game at all times, right down the line." ~ MrSex4uNYC

"Capture and lead her imagination and she will not resist you." ~ Ross Jeffries
 

MattB

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I apologize for getting off topic here, but what are good ways to help yo memorize things?
Finals are coming up..
 

PrinceCharming

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Since we are on the topic of memorization, and since I've taken a few classes on cognitive psychology, let me share with you what I have found to be useful in remembering things.

It is clear, from many experiments in cognitive psychology, that the mind does not work as a record->play type of machine. Take any scene you've seen in a movie, and you only remember pieces, and sometimes distort things. It seems that the way humans store information is usually meaning first. That is to say, that if you hear a story, you're not going to remember what the exact words were, but you can very well remember the meaning of it.

So the meaning gets stored, and then when recall is required, the meaing gets retrieved and content is *generated* from the meaning, rather than remembered. Now in many occasions, the meaning is not available, like technical information for example.

In these cases, I think the brain will store the structure over the content. If you've read Chomsky, you'll be familiar with the notion of a grammar. The brain seems to try to figure out a grammar out of the content, a structure, that it can use as framework to *generate* content from. This is not to say that memorization of pure content does not occurr. That is actually how we store formulas, and other things that have no structure or meaning.

In college I found that if I read the information a once or twice, I'd be moderatley familiar with it. That is, I'd be able to figure out a question that focused on meaning, context, and other generic stuff. But if the question was on content, and higly specific, like history for example, then a simple reading wouldn't "cut it" Different techinques were required. I have no specific one I use, since I use what comes to mind.

As it applies to patterns, I think Sir_Chancealot you're steering in the wrong direction here. I read Ross himself say that canned and memorized patterns were a thing of the past in SS. The "new" SS, as he called it, was focusing more on building responsiveness and - from I gather - "dynamic" pattern generation. This is the ability to create patterns on the spot, that are "customized" to the girl you are talking to.

This is the whole: "find trance words, and link them in with feelings" strategy. I remember that Ross had a newsletter once in pattern creation. It no longer exists in his site, but I was able to find it here on the Web Archive http://web.archive.org/web/20010208125925/www.seduction.com/gln15.htm

Read the other old nesletters by clicking on the Newsletters link on the left side menu there. You cannot download the pdf files because the Web Archive site does not store those files, but you can select the text from the newsletter and save it as text in WordPad. There's some really good stuff there, but it is dated so use with care.

[This message has been edited by PrinceCharming (edited 11-19-2002).]
 

Sir_Chancealot

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Thanks Vronski. I will try that mental image when I am studying the patterns. (Oh, BTW, nice embedded commands, there!
)

I guess I kind of didn't explain myself very well in my posts. I don't intend to KEEP using canned patterns, I just need to use them to concentrate on the big picture. How do I put this? I won't have any problem coming up with my own, but first I need to learn to THINK like the patterns. Once I learn to THINK like the patterns, these things are going to roll off my tongue like so many sharp-witted retorts to the newbies on here!


To the rest of the guys: Thanks for your help. I know what you guys are saying, and I INTEND to get away from memorizing patterns, it's just right now, I need them to get the feel for what I am doing. Remember, I have only been studying them for 8 days now, with only 1 actual pattern run.

Got a plan to run another one tomorrow, though!



[This message has been edited by Sir_Chancealot (edited 11-19-2002).]
 

PrinceCharming

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Sir_Chancealot you're doing just fine. With only 8 days of study, and you already expect to get phenomenalistic results?


It has taken me at least a year to be able to come up with patterns on my own, and I didn't practice at all. However, I'm at a point where I can tell right away if someone is using a canned pattern or something not natural. The phrase "Have you ever..." raises the hairs in my neck, it sets off flags that say I'm about to be played for a fool here.

No I'm not a chick, but when I read somewhere or hear somebody use somerthing like that, I go *sigh*, not that **** again. So it does take some time. In the mean time, some things you should do are:

Sit down with pen and paper and come up with uour own paterns, or improve on old ones you've written before.

Keep listening to the CDs as repetition is one way to learn things.

Maybe study and take canned patterns apart, and see what their structure is. Just like the devotees study the bible


If you can get your hands on the Bishop's Journal by all means read it. Ross used to sell this, since Bishop (not his real name), was one of Ross' best students. Ross even learned some things from him. But the idiot screwed his customers up, or something and is now in jail for fraud. The manual may be in pdf format in any of file sharing tools. But I'm not advocating that you download it from there. If you do, do it for your own reasons.
 

Sir_Chancealot

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One of the cool things that I am doing is that I am picking apart some of the canned patterns, and rearranging them to suit the states that I want to lead the women in.

It is absolutely NOT going to take me a year to learn this stuff. 90 days, max.


(Then again, I always was the optimistic sort!
)
 

BLuE eLf

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Originally posted by Sir_Chancealot:
Anyone else have trouble memorizing the patterns?

I have absolutely ***NO*** trouble memorizing things, but for some reason these patterns seem real hard to memorize.

Anyone else experiencing the same thing?

The answer to your problem is : "dont try to memorize them !!!!" that's you first fatal mistake. They are not gonna work if it sounds rehearsed. Empathy is the most important thing. Make your own patterns. Be spontaneuous. If it doesnt work for the first time, no big deal, eventualy it will work.
If you are a begginer, use patterns that suits you, and from there move on to complex ones. Learn to calibrate - thats a very important thing.
 

BLuE eLf

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Dont try to be perfect. Learn from you mistakes and you will be perfect.

[This message has been edited by BLuE eLf (edited 11-20-2002).]
 

Sir_Chancealot

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Damn! How do you people expect to do well in speed seduction if you don't learn to listen?

I just told you:
*****I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM IN DELIVERING THE LINES******

******I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TONALITY****

******I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PACING*****

I ***DO*** have a problem in memorizing them. Now, the reason I want to memorize them (listen REAL close now) IS TO TRAIN MY BRAIN TO THINK ALONG THOSE TYPES OF THOUGHTS.

Have I made myself perfectly clear? Is there anyone not clear on that?

Let me rephrase it..... I am memorizing the patterns so that I can get a better idea of how to do it on the fly.

Now, we all clear?
 

Tengu

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I understand what you mean, you want the general layout of the important bits of the pattern, not memorising the words directly. Ie: Running it backwards does not work aswell as running it forwards, due to its structure? and to understand the structure means then you can generate the patterns on the spot.

Im having trouble putting it into words. While im only a novice, here is what i would do. I would sit down with one pattern and rewrite it to ten different topics, and try to maintain the end result....

Kind of like reviewing the battle feild before the battle. I think its just a matter of exposure, it will sink in eventually.

Im just a inarticulate novice, i hope i am of some help.
 
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