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Transit phase from BP to RP - useless to women?

TonyTenner

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Is there a phase one goes through when being Red Pilled where you're neither alpha yet - because you're only beginning to kill the beta - but nor are you a beta provider - because your eyes are just opening. And so, to women, in this phase, you're basically useless to them?

Im feeling this way. Just ended an LTR because, having being RPed a few months ago, I realised I was the beta provider. There was no doubt in my mind that that's what she had me down as. I would not consider myself an alpha, despite a high notch count (70ish) without ever knowing anything about game or the RP.

So I feel in limbo as I unlearn the blue pill and relearn alpha behaviours - which I realise I had a youngster.

Anyone else have this experience?
 

TonyTenner

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What quality do you think you have lost, that might be valuable to women?
I think that when you're young and in school, you're forced to do uncomfortable things. That could be being forced to be in a play, being forced to doing a presentation in front of the class etc. I played a lot of sports as a kid. Sometimes I didn't feel like playing, like if the weather was ****ty or you'd had a bad game the last time. But you had to play. That is character developing, and it increases aggression, in a good way. As an adult, comfort becomes the default. Im now beginning to get out of the comfort zone again.
 

HyenaPrince

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I think that when you're young and in school, you're forced to do uncomfortable things. That could be being forced to be in a play, being forced to doing a presentation in front of the class etc. I played a lot of sports as a kid. Sometimes I didn't feel like playing, like if the weather was ****ty or you'd had a bad game the last time. But you had to play. That is character developing, and it increases aggression, in a good way. As an adult, comfort becomes the default. Im now beginning to get out of the comfort zone again.
I see. That doesn't answer the question regarding your Red Pill transition though. You said you're useless to women at the present time. Why? What quality do you think you've lost?
 

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TonyTenner

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I see. That doesn't answer the question regarding your Red Pill transition though. You said you're useless to women at the present time. Why? What quality do you think you've lost?
I mean it in the sense that, being late 30s, I'm looking for an LTR as I want kids. I'll keep having ONS but as I'm only killing the beta now - since I'm only recently RPed - an LTR now may be tricky as I refuse to play the role I've been conditioned for - the beta provider.

I'm not bemoaning this. I think it's interesting and wondered had anyone else experienced a similar phase.
 

BeExcellent

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Tony for what it’s worth this is what I observe from the woman’s locker room. Women are Machiavellian by nature.

Women are like fire. They can be warm and enlightening and you can become transfixed by them. They can be useful to you or they can consume you and burn you to the ground if you do not under their nature...much like fire has a nature so too do women. How you handle fire has everything to do with your knowledge of it...and your respect of it.

Too many men either do not understand the nature of women or do not believe it is as it is. And most women will sell you a fairy tale not because they are bad people but rather that they are blind to their own nature.

I say on here often that I prefer the player archetype. There’s a reason for that. I understand my nature. I embrace it and enjoy it. I am Machiavellian. Furthermore I understand what I need in a worthy partner. I need a man who isn’t going to tolerate my BS and who isn’t going to treat me like a princess. I require respect but I hate being on a pedestal. I want to be led and desired, not worshipped and pampered. There is power in the feminine just like there is power in the tigress; or in fire. I know what I am. Therefore I need a man who recognizes my nature and who can guide and direct me in his way for his use and purpose. This doesn’t diminish me as a person...not at all. I am still a full person in my own right.

But I know I need a man who I’m not going to overwhelm just by existing in my self assurance in my natural state. I was raised red pill by a strong father figure who was revered or hated or feared by other men.

I cannot tolerate a pvssy. Can’t do it.

What happens through the red pill journey is a period of disillusionment. You are seeing things as they are for the first time.

It’s a new landscape and requires adjustment. Once you recalibrate you’ll be able to relax and enjoy the journey.

Be patient with yourself. You’ll get there. And you’ll be wise rather than jaded if you keep moving toward your own purpose and improving yourself.

Cheers
 

SW15

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Tony for what it’s worth this is what I observe from the woman’s locker room. Women are Machiavellian by nature.

Women are like fire. They can be warm and enlightening and you can become transfixed by them. They can be useful to you or they can consume you and burn you to the ground if you do not under their nature...much like fire has a nature so too do women. How you handle fire has everything to do with your knowledge of it...and your respect of it.

Too many men either do not understand the nature of women or do not believe it is as it is. And most women will sell you a fairy tale not because they are bad people but rather that they are blind to their own nature.

I say on here often that I prefer the player archetype. There’s a reason for that. I understand my nature. I embrace it and enjoy it. I am Machiavellian. Furthermore I understand what I need in a worthy partner. I need a man who isn’t going to tolerate my BS and who isn’t going to treat me like a princess. I require respect but I hate being on a pedestal. I want to be led and desired, not worshipped and pampered. There is power in the feminine just like there is power in the tigress; or in fire. I know what I am. Therefore I need a man who recognizes my nature and who can guide and direct me in his way for his use and purpose. This doesn’t diminish me as a person...not at all. I am still a full person in my own right.

But I know I need a man who I’m not going to overwhelm just by existing in my self assurance in my natural state. I was raised red pill by a strong father figure who was revered or hated or feared by other men.

I cannot tolerate a pvssy. Can’t do it.

What happens through the red pill journey is a period of disillusionment. You are seeing things as they are for the first time.

It’s a new landscape and requires adjustment. Once you recalibrate you’ll be able to relax and enjoy the journey.

Be patient with yourself. You’ll get there. And you’ll be wise rather than jaded if you keep moving toward your own purpose and improving yourself.

Cheers
There are 3 types of women: Dominant, Independent, and Submissive.

A lot of Dominant women end up with submissive beta males. This is probably one of the more common pairings in the Western world in the last few decades.

Submissive women are best for alpha males. A submissive woman is repelled by a beta. The submissive resents having to do too much leadership.

The Independent is the least common breed. I had a long term girlfriend who was an Independent. Much of what you say reeks of Independent. You are repulsed by betas. You realize you need someone stronger to lead you but you are self assured and can come off as confident. That's not easy to find.

A submissive female wouldn't likely see out a forum like this. A Dominant might. An Independent might. Dominants thrive on bossing around beta males. Therefore, I'm seeing you as an independent.
 

stringpuller

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Is there a phase one goes through when being Red Pilled where you're neither alpha yet - because you're only beginning to kill the beta - but nor are you a beta provider - because your eyes are just opening. And so, to women, in this phase, you're basically useless to them?

Im feeling this way. Just ended an LTR because, having being RPed a few months ago, I realised I was the beta provider. There was no doubt in my mind that that's what she had me down as. I would not consider myself an alpha, despite a high notch count (70ish) without ever knowing anything about game or the RP.

So I feel in limbo as I unlearn the blue pill and relearn alpha behaviours - which I realise I had a youngster.

Anyone else have this experience?
Completely normal bro. Just keep studying and gaining experience with RP tool box
 

stringpuller

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direct me in his way for his use and purpose.
Oooo thats good. Like for banging your head off the bed board. Gotta keep that glue tight haha
I cannot tolerate a pvssy. Can’t do it.
Vast majority cannot. I also agree woman cannot see their own nature and this itself fcks ALOT of guys up. It leads to false expectations and trying negotiate too much.
 

stormrider

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I mean it in the sense that, being late 30s, I'm looking for an LTR as I want kids. I'll keep having ONS but as I'm only killing the beta now - since I'm only recently RPed - an LTR now may be tricky as I refuse to play the role I've been conditioned for - the beta provider.

I'm not bemoaning this. I think it's interesting and wondered had anyone else experienced a similar phase.
All you have to do is throw everything you’ve learned away and remember this one important rule romance. Romance only had one rule. Not one, not two, and certainly not 1000 as some posters here would have you believe.

In order for a woman to place any sort of value to you - in other words, in order for a woman to value what you are providing, she must feel like she earned it.

If a woman flirts with me and I give her attention, she feels like she deserves it, and she ends up valuing my attention.

If a woman doesn’t do anything and I give her validation, she will devalue my validation.

All you have to do is follow this one principle throughout your entire relationship and you can be a provider but you will never be beta. Because everything you are providing, she earned.

You are not just giving to her because she exists, or because society tells you to, like most beta providers.

It’s just common sense. People have to earn your reward. Everything you do is framed as a reward.

She makes an effort. You reward her for her efforts. This is how you mold her into a value giving person. Wash, rinse, and repeat. If she acts up, you dismiss.

Then you move on with your life to other important things other than studying petty romance ad nauseam. Bluepill this, red pill that. This stuff is for women to obsess over. As men, all we need are principles.
 
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stormrider

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I would add that most people don’t know how to operate within a partnership/relationship/collaboration. They see a good deal and they start compromising themselves because they don’t want to upset the other person. They want everything to run smoothly because making too many demands might ruin the relationship.

But what happens when you start compromising yourself is that you teach the other person to treat you poorly. They will subconsciously pick up on the fact that you value the relationship more than yourself and will start to treat you like sh1t. They could be well meaning but will treat you like sh1t anyway.

You have to always be willing to walk no matter how good of a deal it is. Even if it’s the best deal. For a collaboration to work, it has to convenience both parties. If one side feels inconvenienced, then they have to express it, or it will lead to resentment.

A romance/collaboration/partnership Launching successfully is only reserved for the people with strong frames. They can be in a relationship but not completely lose themselves in it.

If anything, they become MORE of themselves. This is the true meaning of a relationship. When you feel like you can be totally naked and more of yourself in front of another.

The opposite is to lose yourself and compromise yourself for the sake of another. This is what 99% of people experience as modern day romance. They place the value on either the relationship or another person, when the focus should always be on the self.

If two people can place the focus on themselves and love themselves fully and without compromise, then the relationship will inadvertently have a better chance of working out.

This is the paradox and mystery of relationships. The focus has to be on the self and not the other, or worse, the relationship. Some people focus on making everything right with the other person, and some people sacrifice themselves for the betterment of the relationship even if it was detrimental to themselves and the relationship falls apart anyway.

It is a tragedy when something that’s a good fit doesn’t work out. But that’s part of the game and you have to let go. Always maintain your leverage and never inconvenience yourself for someone or something else. Trust that the best possible scenario can only come out from 100% self love and respect. If people can’t handle the fact that you are strong and unwavering in your refusal to compromise yourself, then they can walk. They were not meant to be with you anyway.

Don’t ever supplicate no matter how good of a deal it is. You have to be willing to stick to your boundaries and risk losing everything.

And don’t ever act desperate for something to work out. The other person will just use your desperation to gaslight you.

And most importantly, always follow the number 1 rule of relationships - both parties must give equal energy/effort into the relationship. If one person works harder than the other to make the relationship work, it will create an imbalance and entitlement, and consequently, poor treatment.
 
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Lynx nkaf

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This is true.

Woman focusing on just the man while he focuses on just his purpose and then he only focuses on the 'relationship' was a workable
idea to not be beta.

But if she's redpilled...there may be resentment.

I wonder that redpilled women could ever be consistently submissive if the 'relationship' does not encourage her self love and respect too.

My doubt in this success is what has lead to my surrender to the search.
 

stringpuller

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I wonder that redpilled women could ever be consistently submissive if the 'relationship' does not encourage her self love and respect too.
A good man knows this but men and women are not equal in some areas and never will be. SMV and SMP come into play here.
I know guys who consistently feel the need to tell there gf that they are replaceable and they put them down in overt ways to feed an insecurity.
I think this is a mistake for several reasons.
Telling a woman anything like that is useless.
Rather she should "feel" like she looks up to you. Not down.
I focus on behavior and obedience.
And as @stormrider said reward what is good. Be positive and encouraging to what you like
 

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Lynx nkaf

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A good man knows this but men and women are not equal in some areas and never will be. SMV and SMP come into play here.
I know guys who consistently feel the need to tell there gf that they are replaceable and they put them down in overt ways to feed an insecurity.
I think this is a mistake for several reasons.
Telling a woman anything like that is useless.
Rather she should "feel" like she looks up to you. Not down.
I focus on behavior and obedience.
And as @stormrider said reward what is good. Be positive and encouraging to what you like
good stuff, that's a good attitude
I probably quoted her before, but that author L.I. Wilder of the 'Little House on The Prairie' series wrote at the time of her engagement that she couldn't promise obedience against her own better judgement. I wish I had the book right in front of me, I'd take a pic of the sentence and post it here to see what you thought.

You see, sometimes the man gets irrepairably sick(brain tumour etc.) and obeying is no longer reasonable for safety reasons...rational thought and decisions must always prevail.
If she maintains a strong enough frame of selflove and selfrespect she'll be able to survive in times of his illness, weakness or death.


You should have heard some of the conversations between my Dad and Mom as he lay dying of brain cancer.
He was pumping up her ego with literally his dying breaths " You know I believe in you and you must believe in yourself. You know how to make good decisions, you can do this"




I spend the day with her today, she's my safety man for me redoing my roof.
Thank God I have some red pill relationship skills in how to talk to her.

She sees me as having a similar personality to my Dad.
That freaks me out a bit and its why I'm learning how to be more feminine
 
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