Training For All Round Body Functionality

[J. Darko]

Of course you don't, your a rookie...rookies think doing the biggest exercises to get the "most bang for your buck" is an absolute way to train.

You do realize benching, squatting and deadlifting while being compound exercises build specific areas of the body better than others....but did you ever think about any supporting muscles that don't receive as much intensity as prime moving muscles during compounds ??

You do realize in order for your bench to go up you have to build up your arms...and you do realize that triceps wont grow unless you balance them out with equally developed biceps and forearms...you do realize that if your squatting correctly it will build up your inner thighs but if you don't do any direct quad and hamstring work you will plateau, You do realize if you have WEAK biceps your back development will suffer for that.

Your probably one of those guys that thinks its not important to train certain muscles if you focus on doing big stuff all the time...


and for the love of god....will you elite keyboardists stop thinking you know anything about what someones nervous system can and can't handle during workouts.

That's right. I'm a rookie. I only squat 140 Kg. That's only 2.1 times my bodyweight. But I managed to do so without any isolation work and I will not need any isolation work until a muscular weakness comes up. That may happen around the time I squat 200 kg and by that time, I will be as strong as hell already. Furthermore, 200 Kg will be around 3 times my bodyweight and that means that by that time, I will be close to my genetic limit anyway. In the mean time, I'm not wasting recovery with isolation work that I don't need and prevents me from squatting more weight.

 

[CarlitosWay]

OP I would stick with defrancos. He uses it with all sorts of people, beginners, top ranked athletes and even girls. If they can make big gains in size and strength you can too. This thread has some real laughable posts.

WS4SB was made for athletes, if you're interested in getting better for a sport, it works great. His routine makes sense. Mixing up higher rep work with real heavy strength training, is the way to go. He includes things like scapulae work and has a huge variety of exercises to choose from. So you find what works best for you and experiment.

Starting strength is well for a guy who hasn't even set foot in a gym and doesn't know **** and just needs something to do 3 times a week. I'd rather see someone in the gym 4-5 times a week. Maybe a sprint session once a week throw in.

Yet I'll vouch for this upper/lower body split as it focuses on progression. Which should be the core of any routine no matter what.

EDIT: just reread your original post OP and yeah sounds like you want to stay busy a good amount of the week. Defrancos routine has you covered. His routine plus some conditioning work and some mobility sessions a few times a week + foam rolling is great (I highly recommend Eric Cressey's magnificent mobility). Cressey also has great routines. (http://showandgotraining.com)

 

[CarlitosWay]

Of course you don't, your a rookie...rookies think doing the biggest exercises to get the "most bang for your buck" is an absolute way to train.

You do realize benching, squatting and deadlifting while being compound exercises build specific areas of the body better than others....but did you ever think about any supporting muscles that don't receive as much intensity as prime moving muscles during compounds ??

You do realize in order for your bench to go up you have to build up your arms...and you do realize that triceps wont grow unless you balance them out with equally developed biceps and forearms...you do realize that if your squatting correctly it will build up your inner thighs but if you don't do any direct quad and hamstring work you will plateau, You do realize if you have WEAK biceps your back development will suffer for that.

Your probably one of those guys that thinks its not important to train certain muscles if you focus on doing big stuff all the time...


and for the love of god....will you elite keyboardists stop thinking you know anything about what someones nervous system can and can't handle during workouts.

Just read this bud and it's gold, so eloquently put. There's a huge bias toward some things in this forum. Some people need to step out of their little snow globes.

 

[J. Darko]

OP I would stick with defrancos. He uses it with all sorts of people, beginners, top ranked athletes and even girls. If they can make big gains in size and strength you can too. This thread has some real laughable posts.

WS4SB was made for athletes, if you're interested in getting better for a sport, it works great. His routine makes sense. Mixing up higher rep work with real heavy strength training, is the way to go. He includes things like scapulae work and has a huge variety of exercises to choose from. So you find what works best for you and experiment.

Starting strength is well for a guy who hasn't even set foot in a gym and doesn't know **** and just needs something to do 3 times a week. I'd rather see someone in the gym 4-5 times a week. Maybe a sprint session once a week throw in.

Yet I'll vouch for this upper/lower body split as it focuses on progression. Which should be the core of any routine no matter what.

EDIT: just reread your original post OP and yeah sounds like you want to stay busy a good amount of the week. Defrancos routine has you covered. His routine plus some conditioning work and some mobility sessions a few times a week + foam rolling is great (I highly recommend Eric Cressey's magnificent mobility). Cressey also has great routines. (http://showandgotraining.com)

That's strange...you advocate high frequency training, while WS4SB let's you train your upperbody and lower body only 2 times a week. You could also train 3 times a week while training all bodyparts 3 times a week. That's more training, in less time, with more recovery...

Of course, WS4SB let's you do more exercises per body part, totally true. But in the end, it's progression that counts. In order to gainmore muscle mass, you will have to add more weight, sets or reps. That's a bit difficult to do on 100 exercises at the same time.

 

[cuzza]

DeFranco is one of the most widely respected coaches on the planet, and WS4SB is classed as one of the best programs. It's held in the same esteem as programs such as Starting Strength.

Personally, I'd use none of them. The volume is far too low for my liking, and the exercise selection leave gaps in your physique. For example, my arms didn't grow until I regularly started doing a lot of direct arm work, nor did my shoulders until I started doing a lot of lateral raises.

There is no holy grail of programs. As long as you're gaining strength all the time and eating a lot of food, you will gain muscle. Simple as. High intensity, high food intake = growth.

 

[Fuglydude]

DeFranco is one of the most widely respected coaches on the planet, and WS4SB is classed as one of the best programs. It's held in the same esteem as programs such as Starting Strength.

Personally, I'd use none of them. The volume is far too low for my liking, and the exercise selection leave gaps in your physique. For example, my arms didn't grow until I regularly started doing a lot of direct arm work, nor did my shoulders until I started doing a lot of lateral raises.

There is no holy grail of programs. As long as you're gaining strength all the time and eating a lot of food, you will gain muscle. Simple as. High intensity, high food intake = growth.

This is good advice... Everyone's metabolism is unique. You need to figure out what combination of diet, training program, supplements help you achieve your goals.

 

[thedude4242]

one thing I noticed is I have not used weights in a long time. the best thing to do is do exercises that are not so much for gaining muscle but do exercises that work on your athleticism. use bands. they got the bodylastics bands that have enough resistance to give you a good workout and I get better results with them than weights. I work an athleticism now. strength train also, but dont be involved in doing these few movements with as much weight as you can. do all your workouts in the gym anymore to me is boring.

 

[CarlitosWay]

That's strange...you advocate high frequency training, while WS4SB let's you train your upperbody and lower body only 2 times a week. You could also train 3 times a week while training all bodyparts 3 times a week. That's more training, in less time, with more recovery...

Of course, WS4SB let's you do more exercises per body part, totally true. But in the end, it's progression that counts. In order to gainmore muscle mass, you will have to add more weight, sets or reps. That's a bit difficult to do on 100 exercises at the same time.

To me training full body 3 times a week isn't the best option for bringing up your physique in balanced strength and size from top to bottom.; essentially cramming 10 lbs of **** in a 5 lb bag and severly limiting choices in exercise selection and also limiting stimulation of certain muscle groups. Especially if one naturally has certain muscle groups that tend to take over on some exercises.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Don't even waste your time Carlito. J. Darko, a random 154lb kid (who barely weighs more than a girl) knows more about fitness than Joe Defranco and other guys like, you and I, who actually train with people that have years of experience and ARE ALREADY where we would (all) like to be.

 

[EFFORT]

What I'm looking to do is go more for functionality; I want strength, fitness, speed, agility and to be generally healthier.

Based on your goals I'd go with defranco

http://clips.team-andro.com/watch/c4743e6724f960725612/joe-defranco-strong-the-movie

 

[J. Darko]

To me training full body 3 times a week isn't the best option for bringing up your physique in balanced strength and size from top to bottom.; essentially cramming 10 lbs of **** in a 5 lb bag and severly limiting choices in exercise selection and also limiting stimulation of certain muscle groups. Especially if one naturally has certain muscle groups that tend to take over on some exercises.

That's true. My goal isn't balanced physique and to be honest, I don't think that's the goal of most guys either. Most guys just want a bunch of muscle mass, not perfect symmetry. This guy in specific doesn't even want that, he wants to be an athlete and in that case isolation exercies are going to suck, because they don't teach you to use your whole body in an explosive way.

Drum&Bass
Don't give up your day job. You can't visit haunted houses for a living because your posts prove that you are not psychic.
But let's cut the bullsht and let's be honest. I am a 150 lbs guy, yes. I'm a 150 lbs guy who squatted 310 lbs. Then I broke my ankle. Then half a year later I squatted 310 lbs again. Then I ruptured the muscles in my ankle. Now I squat 310 lbs again for reps. That's only slightly below your max squat while I'm much lighter than you which makes me relatively stronger and thus better in a competition. Also, your power clean of 135 lbs and bench press of 225 lbs are considered beginner stats by the strength community. Then there's also the fact that you are a 30 year old man.

In short, you are all talk and you have nothing to show for. You'd better keep your keyboard jocking mouth shut.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Squat builds up inner thighs and parts of the Glutes. It stretches the hamstrings but offers little hamstring contraction and focuses a certain degree of stress on the quad (particularly Vastus Medialis).

What this means...Squatting will build up PARTS of your leg very well but not so great for other parts.

Sure someone can squat and ONLY squat until weaknesses and imbalances start appearing, but why neglect areas that you know are not getting adequate development ??

OPTION A: Squat for 6 months and develop giant strong inner thighs and glutes while the hamstring and quads lag. When you finally hit a plateau you start working on the areas that were neglected from ONLY doing compound movements (setting you back a few months to play catch up).

OPTION B For 6 months you, Squat and develop your inner thighs and glutes. Include hamstring curls and/or glute ham raises to develop your hamstring contraction ability since a squat isn't going to do it. Include sissy squats and leg raises to develop your quad muscles, particularly the ones that are not emphasized when squatting. Work on unilateral leg exercises to build up leg strength to an even greater degree (without unequal distribution of weight when doing bilateral training).

At the end of 6 months how much further along will the person doing OPTION B compare to the person doing OPTION A ?

 

[cuzza]

Exactly.

The human body can overcome a frighteningly large amount of workload. Overtraining is blown ridiculously out of proportion. Last week I trained my back three times - obviously performance was slightly down on the second and third day. Overall though, I increased the level of stress placed on the muscle and increased my WORK CAPACITY. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was only training muscles once per week, when my body (and nearly everybody elses I'd say) can handle more than that.

It's about your ability to recover. If you're eating enough, you should be able to recover from most SENSIBLE workouts. Obviously I'm not advocating squatting or deadlifting three times a week, as they are very CNS intensive exercises, but for nearly all the rest, I say go for it.

 

[J. Darko]

- A guy who doesn't squat 3 times is bodyweight will not have to deal with muscle imbalances yet.
- Option B will result in a weaker squat after 6 months, due to energy spend on isolation exercises that could've been spend on the squat.
- Squatting and deadlifting three times a week will result in the fastest progress on these lifts.
- Overtraining will be an issue if more isolation exercises are added while squatting and deadlifting three times a week.
- Isolation exercises will send a conflicting signal to the CNS. While squatting and deadlifting makes the CNS more efficient at moving the body as a whole, isolation exercises will tear down that efficiency by teaching the body to move parts whil being stabilized by an external source.
- Isolation exercises, therefore, are like medicine. You take your medicine when your body is sick, not before the body is sick and not after the body is sick.



Jim Wendler, Dave Tate, Louie Simmons, Joe Defranco, Christian Thibaudeau, Mark Rippetoe, Glenn Pendlay, Bill Starr, Layne Norton, Stephen Korte, Lyle McDonals, Matt Kroc, Uncle Sam, Best Friend, That One Huge Guy In The Gym and Your Mom...

...they all post messages, create video's and write books telling you all kinds of stuff about how they train, about how others train, about how you should train, NOT because they care how you look, NOT because they care how you will look, NOT because they want to share their knowledge, wisdom and experience with you, but because THEY WANT TO EARN A LIVING OVER YOUR DEAD BODY. Don't listen to them. Training is not rocket science. Just practice something a lot and you will become good at it.

 

[cuzza]

Guy A does only compound exercises with no direct arm work. Guy B does the same compound exercises with direct arm work.

Who has bigger arms?
It's not even a question.

I bought all this 'no need in doing curls' crap for far too long. Huge mistake. Guys with big arms do direct arm work - simple as. The argument of 'I've never seen anyone with a 400 pound deadlift who's got small arms' is rubbish; A - the majority of those people STILL do curls, and B - if they didn't, they'd have BETTER arms if they did.

 

[cuzza]

He will also have stronger arms.

 

[cuzza]

Yep, but pullups and curls would be a better choice than just pullups for building arm strength.

 

[Drum&Bass]

@ J. Darko. I don't agree with everything you said (in your last post) but your thinking in the right direction sort of*.

I give advice based on my experience. My full time business (that I own) is a strength and conditioning instruction/coaching (what ever you want to call it). I've been training all types of people for years. Dave Tate, Wendler and all those other guys give advice NOT to be taken as an absolute but to be used as tools. Its up to the individual to test out which tools will work best for him or her.

The reality is NONE of us knows what will work best for the OP. All we can do is theorize and guess.

That is why at the very BEGINNING of this thread I said the OP just needs to try the program that interested him !!! it doesn't matter whether he squats 405 in 2 years or 4 years. The most important thing is he is starting something that will hopefully continue on through out his life. It will be up to him to use common sense and learn whats best for him.

I don't know HOW or WHY the thread turned into this but like I said before the start of all the arguing...

OP doesn't need help. He found a program he wanted to use. At that point he doesnt need help with anything. All he needs to do is stick with his choice and develop some kind of foundation to work from.

 

[J. Darko]

@ J. Darko. I don't agree with everything you said (in your last post) but your thinking in the right direction sort of*.

I give advice based on my experience. My full time business (that I own) is a strength and conditioning instruction/coaching (what ever you want to call it). I've been training all types of people for years. Dave Tate, Wendler and all those other guys give advice NOT to be taken as an absolute but to be used as tools. Its up to the individual to test out which tools will work best for him or her.

The reality is NONE of us knows what will work best for the OP. All we can do is theorize and guess.

That is why at the very BEGINNING of this thread I said the OP just needs to try the program that interested him !!! it doesn't matter whether he squats 405 in 2 years or 4 years. The most important thing is he is starting something that will hopefully continue on through out his life. It will be up to him to use common sense and learn whats best for him.

I don't know HOW or WHY the thread turned into this but like I said before the start of all the arguing...

OP doesn't need help. He found a program he wanted to use. At that point he doesnt need help with anything. All he needs to do is stick with his choice and develop some kind of foundation to work from.

Yeah lets stop arguing and let the OP just lift heavy weights a lot.

 

[Matt281]

@ Matt, I just read your vagina monologue of a workout journal..

dude... planks, moby d!ck and 55 rep body weight squats, seriously ??

I KNEW you were a keyboard jockey...Instead of arguing and thinking you know stuff based off of some internet articles do yourself a favor, read my journal, follow my format and actually get some results.

When ever I need some comic relief I'll be sure to read your next "LIFESTYLE" journal entry.

When your deadlifting over 500lbs for reps, squatting over 500, benching AT LEAST 315 and you can box jump 4ft or more at a bodyweight of around 185 come see me..

That goes for all the other keyboard jockeys in this thread thinking you know anything from a limited amount of experience. I can always spot a clueless rookie when their first bit of advice to someone is follow some weak incomplete rippetoe program.

Sigh I didn't have access to a gym...lol

The term keyboard jockey has virtually no application here. Lifting weights isn't a skill like basketball or pickup. Have I trained thousands of people over 20 years? No, but I've read many books, studies and articles by people who have, and I find them much more credible than you.

These aren't my ideas I'm writing about, they are theirs.