Training For All Round Body Functionality

[Carpe.Diem]

Hey everyone. Most of the advice on these boards regarding health is focused around getting either as big, as strong or as ripped as is possible. What I'm looking to do is go more for functionality; I want strength, fitness, speed, agility and to be generally healthier.

I've done some searches and the best I can find that seems to fit my requirements is this: http://www.defrancotraining.com/articles/38-articles/60-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part1.html

I'm wondering what the h&f gurus think of this routine - it certainly seems to have good credentials. Is there anything you would change? If anyone has been on this routine aswell I'd be very interested in hearing how you got on with it.


Thanks,

CD

 

[Drum&Bass]

Why don't you try it yourself and tell us if you find it effective.

 

[Matt281]

Way, way too much training. Unless you're on drugs or you naturally have bodybuilder physique, you NEED lots of recovery time. Muscle build during recovery, and if you constantly break yourself down, the process will be much slower.

I highly recommend looking at these:

http://www.the21convention.com/2009/09/08/drew-baye-t21c-2009/

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-fitness/

http://www.amazon.com/Body-Science-...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284405660&sr=1-1

Hope it helps.

 

[CaptainJ]

I don't know the westside for skinny bastards routine, but I do know that it works. Hope that helps.

 

[Drum&Bass]

@ Matt281...

Way, way too much training. Unless you're on drugs or you naturally have bodybuilder physique, you NEED lots of recovery time. Muscle build during recovery, and if you constantly break yourself down, the process will be much slower.

Have you tried this program and you are speaking from experience ?

p.s. I don't think carpe needs help, until he actually TRIES something first.

 

[Carpe.Diem]

Alright, thanks for the replies everyone. Matt, I'll definately check those out; they look very interesting.

So I went straight into it, day 1 for me being the leg day. For those who didn't read the link I did:


1 x 5 Squat - Max effort, plenty of warmup sets
3 x 10 Lunges
3 x 8 Romanian Deadlifts
3 sets of hangs (hang on a pull up bar for as long as possible before peeling off)


I've gotta say it was pretty killer, my glutes in particular were really feeling it. 3 x 10 lunges is brutal, even with the fairly conservative weight I was using.

Tomorrow I've got indoor bouldering, so nothing especially strenuous on the legs. We'll see how they are wednesday though: upper body Max effort in the morning followed by some HIIT in the afternoon.

If anyone has any experience in doing this routine, I'd be very interested in hearing about how you got on recovery wise. Like Matt281 mentioned, overtraining was a main concern of mine about this routine (coming from option B in the sticky with minimal cardio...).



Cheers,

CD

 

[Carpe.Diem]

*snip*

That's very interesting Kerpal, thanks for taking the time to answer. The thing is I was on a pure fitness program maybe 2 years ago (I was 15/16) before lifting anything larger than a 3 kilo bag of pasta. I was always decently strong, atleast strong enough to compete fairly well at my rugby (winger then flanker) and rock climbing.


When I started lifting it took me a while to find a decent program since I was mostly going on the bad advice of my friend's, but I noticed a big drop in my fitness once I got off the running and onto the lifting. This is especially noticeable in rugby where your effectively running, tackling or dodging for 2 40 minute halves.


This is why I've come to see if there's a better alternative that matches my goals, I'm happy to be proven wrong, but just from my own past experiences, maybe a pure strength regime isn't optimal?


I think I will buy the starting strength book atleast for now. I was always hesitant about spending money since I've been religously saving for my gap year (roll on january..) and I assumed everything in the book was accessable online. So many people have reccomended it though I'm just going to bite the bullet.


Cheers,

CD

 

[Drum&Bass]

Well that's a little ridiculous, since there are so many training possibilities out there and each takes time to see results. We could spend our lifetimes trying different ones, or we could do a few minutes of research to figure out which are best for our goals.

what are you talking about ??

He found a program, Im telling him to TRY it !! what is so silly about that ??

We could spend our lifetimes trying different ones

...Isn't that what all successful people do ?!!?!?!?!?

 

[Drum&Bass]

It makes you look stupid

Why are you responding to a part of my post that doesn't exist ??

If he had followed your advice and done the Westside program he'd be wasting time right now.

proof ??

 

[Matt281]

@ Matt281...

Have you tried this program and you are speaking from experience ?

p.s. I don't think carpe needs help, until he actually TRIES something first.

No point in trying something for 6-12 months to find out it doesn't work well. There's a wealth of physiology studies out there showing that this type of traditional 3+ times a week, mass exercises program isn't efficient for 90+ percent of people. You can read them if you'd like.

 

[Drum&Bass]

@ Matt281, correct me if Im wrong...but YOU are saying Joe Defranco's program does NOT work well for 90% of the human population ??

You can read them if you'd like.

Yes please guide me to these studies...I would also like proof that Defrancos westside program is not "efficient for 90% of people"

Actually....I don't even want proof that it doesn't work...I'd be happy if you just did a tiny bit of research about the westside program and see what it has ALREADY done for people.

 

[Matt281]

@ Matt281, correct me if Im wrong...but YOU are saying Joe Defranco's program does NOT work well for 90% of the human population ??
Yes please guide me to these studies...I would also like proof that Defrancos westside program is not "efficient for 90% of people"

Actually....I don't even want proof that it doesn't work...I'd be happy if you just did a tiny bit of research about the westside program and see what it has ALREADY done for people.

Sigh, I'm saying that 90% of people, or more, don't have the genetic potential to work out that often and that much without overtraining, which will reduce positive results. You can get results with most programs, but that doesn't mean their methods are efficient.

If you're actually going to read them, I'll dig up some studies on muscle recovery, but my guess is that you can pick up just about any book written by someone with Ph. D in physiology, anatomy or exercise science and find the same thing. You don't seem too interested in reading about that kind of thing though.

 

[Jitterbug]

Defranco trains athletes. His programs were done with athletes as his lab rats. If you fit the bill of being an athlete (good genetics, have time & money to train, eat & rest like an athlete, have access to advanced gym gears) then go for it.

 

[Drum&Bass]

@ Jitterbug

If you fit the bill of being an athlete (good genetics, have time & money to train, eat & rest like an athlete, have access to advanced gym gears) then go for it.

is this a joke ? Your telling me you need to be a rich athlete with good genetics to follow a weight lifting routine ????

People need to eat and rest like they are WORKING OUT FOR RESULTS no ??

What advanced gear are you talking about ???


@ Matt

You don't seem too interested in reading about that kind of thing though.

Information changes constantly especially in the fitness field. What was valid 10 years ago is rarely used today however we need specifics because talking in generalities will get us no where.

also...unless you have actual experience training people for a minimum of at least 5 years there is very little that you can open my eyes to that i already haven't read, tested or tried myself.

but lets see you dig up these studies, professor.

 

[Jitterbug]

D&B, Defranco's training is awesome. My coach is a big fan of it, and often says that we should have the same one down in Australia for our junior athletes before they get drafted.

However, just look at the training schedule at the end and some of the exercises listed. It's pretty obvious that training (and getting stronger / more athletic) is The #1 Priority for someone who takes on that sort of routine. People who can train 6-7 days a week, even if you leave aside the genetic part of it, are those who prioritize their sports & athleticism above all else. They are not your average joes who ask for a routine on an Internet forum. They are athletes wanting to go professional (and making big bucks) who have real coaches. They're willing to sacrifice a lot of things to be able to train.

Your average joes don't have, and can't afford that kind of dedication (and by afford I don't just mean money).

Btw you do know what Defranco is all about, right? His franchise trains top junior athletes so that they are well prepared to have a shot at getting drafted / contracted for the professional leagues - contracts that are worth millions. It's very much a niche market and isn't for everyone.

 

[Matt281]

Information changes constantly especially in the fitness field. What was valid 10 years ago is rarely used today however we need specifics because talking in generalities will get us no where.

also...unless you have actual experience training people for a minimum of at least 5 years there is very little that you can open my eyes to that i already haven't read, tested or tried myself.

but lets see you dig up these studies, professor.

D.R. Swanson, "Atrial Fibrillation in Athletes: Implicity Literature-Based Connection Suggests that Overtraining and Subsequent Inflammation May Be a Contributing Mechanism." Medical Hypotheses 66, no. 6 (2006) 1085-92.

J.E. Graves, et al., "Effects of Reduced Training Frequency on Muscular Strength," International Journal of Sports Medicine 9, no. 5 (1998): 315-19

R. N. Carpinelli and R.M. Otto, "STrength Training: Single Versus Multiple Sets, " Sports Medicine 26, no. 2 (1998): 73-84

P.M. Clarkson and K. Nosaka, "Muscle Function After Exercise Induced Muscle Damage and Rapid Adaptaion," Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 24, no. 5 (1992): 512-20

P.M. Clarkson and I. Tremblay, "Exercise-Induced Muscle Damage, Repair and Adaptaion in Humans," Journal of Applied Physiology 65, no. 1 (1998) 1-6

D.R. Taafe, C. Duret, S. Wheeler, and R. Marcus, "Once-Weekly Resistance Exercise Improves Muscle Strength and Neuromuscular Perforance in Older Adults," Journal of the American Geriatric Society, 47, no. 10 (1999): 1208-14

Have fun

 

[Carpe.Diem]

Well, you put forward a good argument Kerpal, and I've now started Rippetoe's.

Had my first day of it yesterday and I've gotta say it felt great despite me going a little light on the squats (90kg) because my legs were killing from 2 days previously (lower body day on DeFranco's). Strangely they feel fine now... no aching at all.

Thanks to everyone who replied,

CD

 

[Drum&Bass]

@ Matt, I just read your vagina monologue of a workout journal..

dude... planks, moby d!ck and 55 rep body weight squats, seriously ??

I KNEW you were a keyboard jockey...Instead of arguing and thinking you know stuff based off of some internet articles do yourself a favor, read my journal, follow my format and actually get some results.

When ever I need some comic relief I'll be sure to read your next "LIFESTYLE" journal entry.

When your deadlifting over 500lbs for reps, squatting over 500, benching AT LEAST 315 and you can box jump 4ft or more at a bodyweight of around 185 come see me..


That goes for all the other keyboard jockeys in this thread thinking you know anything from a limited amount of experience. I can always spot a clueless rookie when their first bit of advice to someone is follow some weak incomplete rippetoe program.

 

[J. Darko]

At first his post was funny, then it became hilarious. Rippetoes does focus on the squat, the bench and the deadlift. It's utterly pointless mess with your recovery with other exercises like curls, reverse curls, wrist curls, toe curls, hanging upside down super duper ultra calf raises to the max and similar exercises supported by magazines, bodybuilding forums and steroid users who get big anyway as long as they do something, anything. So I don't quite understand why a Rippetoe program is weak and incomplete, unless you are a flaming homosexual who posts on T nation and sucks dck for free biotest supplements.


To the topic openener. Just practice the big lifts as much as you can take and make sure you are progressing regularly. At first you should aim to add weight every workout. Then, when this gets hard, use light days regularly, meaning you schedule to train with only a few sets and reps, with half of your max weight in order to recover from harder workouts.

 

[Drum&Bass]

So I don't quite understand why a Rippetoe program is weak and incomplete

Of course you don't, your a rookie...rookies think doing the biggest exercises to get the "most bang for your buck" is an absolute way to train.

You do realize benching, squatting and deadlifting while being compound exercises build specific areas of the body better than others....but did you ever think about any supporting muscles that don't receive as much intensity as prime moving muscles during compounds ??

You do realize in order for your bench to go up you have to build up your arms...and you do realize that triceps wont grow unless you balance them out with equally developed biceps and forearms...you do realize that if your squatting correctly it will build up your inner thighs but if you don't do any direct quad and hamstring work you will plateau, You do realize if you have WEAK biceps your back development will suffer for that.

Your probably one of those guys that thinks its not important to train certain muscles if you focus on doing big stuff all the time...


and for the love of god....will you elite keyboardists stop thinking you know anything about what someones nervous system can and can't handle during workouts.