Thomas Jefferson and his thoughts on Money

[Burroughs]

President Jefferson's words are more important than ever.
______________________

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Thomas Jefferson,
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

 

[backbreaker]

Thomas Jefferson, while a great man, a Warrent Buffet he was not lol. He died broke as hell and bankrupt, spending his entire life spending money he did not have for the sake of Monticello

 

[Burroughs]

Can't take money with you when you die...might as well spend it all (and then some?) while you're alive to enjoy it.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I wonder if we'd have had the Bill of Rights without him? The rights to speak freely, bear arms, and be free from unreasonable government searches were all negotiated to get the Constitution ratified, largely by Jefferson.

 

[Burroughs]

Thomas Jefferson was a prescient man, particularly when it came to fiat and banking.

Since the introduction of the fiat system in the early 20th century we have seen poverty grow by more and more as a result.
.

Yes Indeed...the founding fathers (A. Hamilton excepted naturally) were all against how the Bank Of England manipulated wars and money through fiat arrogance. They wanted America to be founded through the productivity of its people and not fiat manipulation.

 

[Falcon]

Thomas Jefferson was truly a remarkable man who embodied the spirit of the Enlightenment. Besides politics, he innovated the plow (farmer), was a capable engineer, lawyer, and the father of American archaeology. He was very knowledgeable of history, religion, economics, and classical literature. His library was astounding at the time, consisting of thousands of books. It's one thing to be knowledgeable and intelligent, but he was also very wise. Wise leaders are always good for a country.

I really wonder sometimes how on earth did such a small population produce such great men during the enlightenment period. Is it possible to have them in our time? Do they exist, but we just don't have the environment to encourage their development? Or maybe we just don't give them any attention or spotlight. Are we idolizing the wrong people? You would think that with all the advances in technology and the sheer population numbers should help us... but where are all our wise men????

Every president we have now is either some lawyer or people person. Nowadays they stress being charismatic, a good speaker, and having connections. You have to be presentable they say. Jefferson is the antithesis of the presidents we have today. I am more convinced everyday that we live in an anti-enlightenment period. I think it really shows. Not just in politics, but in our art, music, religion, etc. The fact that Obama was able to use the 'on my free time I like to play basketball and watch the Sunday game etc' and people cheer like that is so awesome. "He seems like someone I would love to have a beer with, I could totally see myself voting for him!" (One of my friends really said that). It's like a complete reversal of what is valued in our society.

Wont be surprised if I get angry responses posting this but for some reason it irks people whenever I bring it up in real life

 

[Burroughs]

Every president we have now is either some lawyer or people person. Nowadays they stress being charismatic, a good speaker, and having connections. You have to be presentable they say. Jefferson is the antithesis of the presidents we have today. I am more convinced everyday that we live in an anti-enlightenment period. I think it really shows. Not just in politics, but in our art, music, religion, etc. The fact that Obama was able to use the 'on my free time I like to play basketball and watch the Sunday game etc' and people cheer like that is so awesome. "He seems like someone I would love to have a beer with, I could totally see myself voting for him!" (One of my friends really said that). It's like a complete reversal of what is valued in our society.

Wont be surprised if I get angry responses posting this but for some reason it irks people whenever I bring it up in real life

You are absolutely correct.

The thing is in earlier times common people strived for greatness. I remember reading a book on H Truman and he spoke about how farmers in isolated areas used to mail order books on Plato, Aristotle, and Shakespeare..regular farmers, that was how hungry Americans were for knowledge...now most people just want to know who is going to win Idol and when Kardashian is getting married again.

We have become a nation of simpletons that look down on true wisdom and knowledge. The founding fathers were men with knowledge across a staggering array of fields...Benajamin Franklin's hero was Isaac Newton who was like the Jay-Z of his day!

I do think there has been a decline, but that doesn't mean that men of greatness cannot stand up if they chose to.

 

[Strelok]

Guys when you compare past leaders to modern leader you forget something really important, back there criminals,kids(at 18 you're still a kid with no experience) and women were not allowed to vote.

Which part of the population you think decides who to vote based on look and social skills instead of wisedom and plans?

Can you imagine a farmer voting for some elitist cause he dress well? Can you imagine a man working from 20yrs voting for some bratty incompetant kid just because he talks well and hughs kids and oldies during election time?
Right now a great man like Jefferson would simply be for most of the people that boring old man who talks about problems and dress like a librarian.

 

[Burroughs]

Can you imagine a farmer voting for some elitist cause he dress well? Can you imagine a man working from 20yrs voting for some bratty incompetant kid just because he talks well and hughs kids and oldies during election time?

excellent point

 

[Falcon]

You are absolutely correct.

The thing is in earlier times common people strived for greatness. I remember reading a book on H Truman and he spoke about how farmers in isolated areas used to mail order books on Plato, Aristotle, and Shakespeare..regular farmers, that was how hungry Americans were for knowledge...now most people just want to know who is going to win Idol and when Kardashian is getting married again.

We have become a nation of simpletons that look down on true wisdom and knowledge. The founding fathers were men with knowledge across a staggering array of fields...Benajamin Franklin's hero was Isaac Newton who was like the Jay-Z of his day!

I do think there has been a decline, but that doesn't mean that men of greatness cannot stand up if they chose to.

I did not know that about past farmers, that's pretty cool. Benjamin Franklin is definitely another one of those guys in that mold.

Maybe these people are trying to stand up in our society but we reject them???

Guys when you compare past leaders to modern leader you forget something really important, back there criminals,kids(at 18 you're still a kid with no experience) and women were not allowed to vote.

Which part of the population you think decides who to vote based on look and social skills instead of wisedom and plans?

Can you imagine a farmer voting for some elitist cause he dress well? Can you imagine a man working from 20yrs voting for some bratty incompetant kid just because he talks well and hughs kids and oldies during election time?
Right now a great man like Jefferson would simply be for most of the people that boring old man who talks about problems and dress like a librarian.

I agree. To add to that, everything is very politicized right now. You really do need to know the right people because the political parties have so much power. One example I like to use is Ron Paul. Although he is no Jefferson, he is a doctor who has an impressive understanding of Austrian economics and foreign policy. He is wise and has a lot of foresight that led him to predicting recent economic crisis and foreign entanglement blunders. What happens??? He gets shunned and blackballed by his own party. The rest of the nation thinks he comes off as a "kook". He's that boring old librarian type you mention that talks too much in debates. It's sad to watch, but it's refreshing for me to see someone not come from the lawyer/businessman/career-politician mold.

Going back to the OP... it is for the reasons of economics and freedom that I always have Jefferson as my top choice as president followed by Andrew Jackson. Both killed the bank of their times. The way Jackson did it was truly EPIC!

 

[Burroughs]

Yes Andrew Jackson's dismantling of the Second Bank of the US was EPIC...it should be front and center of any US education class.

But it won't.

Most people don't even realize THE FED IS PRIVATE...THAT THEY PRINT MONEY AT THEIR WILL OUT OF THIN AIR..FIAT BANKING.

The very thing THE PEOPLE ON THE MONEY (except Hamilton) DIDN'T WANT!! how funny is that!

Thing is Falcon there are powerful vested interests, loyal to the FED that own ALL aspects of media, energy, and banking. They seek to have a dumbed down population that is little more than a slave class sucking on the t!ts of a vapid entertainment system. To a large extent they have that today.

What is so amazing is that the founding fathers KNEW THIS 300 YEARS AGO...and they fought tooth and nail to make sure this fate did not fall on America, sadly it has...and now the whole world trembles under the yoke of invisible money that never existed.

 

[backbreaker]

man i have been waiting to respond to this post all damn day lol, dang 10 post limit

anyway

I agree. To add to that, everything is very politicized right now. You really do need to know the right people because the political parties have so much power. One example I like to use is Ron Paul. Although he is no Jefferson, he is a doctor who has an impressive understanding of Austrian economics and foreign policy. He is wise and has a lot of foresight that led him to predicting recent economic crisis and foreign entanglement blunders. What happens??? He gets shunned and blackballed by his own party. The rest of the nation thinks he comes off as a "kook". He's that boring old librarian type you mention that talks too much in debates. It's sad to watch, but it's refreshing for me to see someone not come from the lawyer/businessman/career-politician mold.

even if wasn't a "kook", and while I agree, there are some very astute points about the man, he just isn't electable. he along with Newt, and the Kennedy that just died, all in the same bunch, they all have done things in a previous life or said things that just will get them black balled the second they got too mainstream.

He will never get the african american or Jewish vote for obvious reasons. We just have not gotten him far enough along for people to really dig that far.

But he does bring up good points that need to be address and heard.

What is so amazing is that the founding fathers KNEW THIS 300 YEARS AGO...and they fought tooth and nail to make sure this fate did not fall on America, sadly it has...and now the whole world trembles under the yoke of invisible money that never existed.

that's stretching the truth a tad. It's a great misconception that everyone of the founding fathers were on the exact same page about this issue (or the vast majority of issues for that matter)

You had 2 parties when the country was founded or better stated, the original political scene in due time broke up into 2 parties, the democrat party and the federalist party.

Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, John Quincy Adams, George Washington.. though George Washington was a pretty centrist president, in fact the only independent president ever in the US. pretty much the entire federalist party favored a central banking type system, which toes right in line with the Federalists (which in todays day in age, would be classifed as democrats ironically). They believed in a strong center whereas the democrats (Jefferson, Jackson, etc) believed in the central government having as little power as possible.

really not too much different from today actually, except the names of the political parties.


I just hate when people try to portray that "those guys had it right and we screwed it all up" because nothing could be further from the truth. they fought about the same **** we still fight about today and more vehemently; keep in mind, this was the birth of a new nation, and these decisions were not so much political decisions, these were decisions of literal life or death; If a party was dead wrong about something it wasn't just we lose the election; with Napoleon trolling the entire known world, with the British still pissed they lost, we would have lost the country.

Yes Andrew Jackson's dismantling of the Second Bank of the US was EPIC...it should be front and center of any US education class.

It wasn't so much his pure hatred of the Second Bank that Jackson hated as the second banks founder Biddle, who Jackson had a feud with. Biddle backed Henry clay in the up coming election, and tried to make the recharting of the 2nd bank a political issue and re applied for a charter like 2 or 3 years too early to force jacksons hand.. in short, he just frucked with the wrong dude, because Andrew jackson wasn't dying. I mean make no mistake he wasn't a fan of the bank but it's not like he came into the presidency on this mission to abolish the bank. He abolished Biddle and while doing so closed the second bank. he didn't do so until his 2nd term.


would not say jackson or jefferson are the GREATEST PRESIDENTS OF ALL TIME (in particular jefferson who is a tad overrated IMHO) though both great presidents both had their faults, jackson with the trail of tears. He's also the only president to ever get in a duel.

FDR and Lincoln IMHO are the 2 best presidents we ever had by a LONG shot.

 

[Burroughs]

he didn't do so until his 2nd term.

That's because the bank's 20 year charter was up in 1836...Jackson major issue with banks was the South Sea Bubble and the undue influence banks could call upon.

_____________

"It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes...Distinctions in society will always exist under every just government...but when the laws undertake to add to these natural and just advantages artificial distinctions...to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society - the farmers, mechanics, and laborers - who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their Government."

 

[Falcon]

man i have been waiting to respond to this post all damn day lol, dang 10 post limit

oh geez, is there really a limit??? I'm slowly starting to remember all the things that made me leave the first time around

FDR and Lincoln IMHO are the 2 best presidents we ever had by a LONG shot.

FDR was horrible. He along with Hoover before him helped make the great depression "great". A lot of the college history textbooks really get the economics wrong in that time period.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I think that a prerequisite for a prez Should be to have and to utilize a workshop in the garage or the basement for making sh!t with their hands. Too many of them like that moron, Rick Perry, just parrot what their masters tell them to say, don't have an original idea of their Own in their skulls, and have never worked a day in their lives, just running for class president in high school since grade school. They all have servants to tie their own shoes and serve their meals. All of them are out of touch. Many factors caused this, one of them, the consolidation of big business, closing down local farms and retail. The 99% are all consolidated now, and have no buying power, no clout, and must do as They say. The doors are shut air-tight. They go on living high on the hog. I'm not bitter cause I'm not unemployed or "broke." I just can't imagine what our young people are going through thinking education will get them somewhere other than debt, and then having to face reality that starting a small business is near impossible cause the Big boys don't get slapped with laws, taxes, and permits that startups do. It's a no-win situation unless you are already in the club or tribe that's hoodwinked and stolen from the masses.

 

[Burroughs]

It's a no-win situation unless you are already in the club or tribe that's hoodwinked and stolen from the masses.

Very true.

Its amazing how many people DON'T grasp this reality.

 

[backbreaker]

FDR was horrible. He along with Hoover before him helped make the great depression "great". A lot of the college history textbooks really get the economics wrong in that time period.

lol stop getting your president rankings from fox and pick up a history book son lol

FDR was probably the single most bad ass american we have ever had, let alone president.

it's a saturday i don't have time for this debate. maybe later when i'm drunk

 

[Falcon]

lol stop getting your president rankings from fox and pick up a history book son lol

FDR was probably the single most bad ass american we have ever had, let alone president.

it's a saturday i don't have time for this debate. maybe later when i'm drunk

Hehe, I don't watch TV and that was probably one of the greatest decisions in my life. Most of FDR's praise comes from his handling of the Great Depression. History books are great for history, but not for economics. Actually if you are to learn anything worth knowing in economics, its advisable to steer clear of history books, especially the types found in high school and college courses. I prefer to get my info from books that focus on economics.

He may have been a badass personality(?), but his economic policies led directly to hurting the recovery of the great depression.

-Used the power of the federal government to force domestic cartels upon American industries.
-Raised farm prices by paying farmers to DESTROY THEIR OWN CROPS while people went hungry.
-Scared away private investment which actually went negative. Why were private investors scared? Well the government under two new deals was incredibly unpredictable. While being the most interventionist seen in history, Roosevelt admitted himself he seldom knew what he was going to be doing in a few weeks ahead of time. Coupled with his gold confiscation/stealing and the cancellation of gold clauses, Roosevelt created some of the most unstable businesses environments ever in the US.

Sure, Roosevelt wasn't the only one committing the crime. Hoover and the Federal Reserve played a gigantic role. But the new deals were a tad overrated. We have to remember that the Great Depression occurred worldwide, it was a worldwide collapse. Yet countries like Canada who had a severe downturn of their own, ended up recovering far quicker than the US and they did not need any kind of New Deal.

Similar to your criticisms of Jefferson, the New Deals were hotly debated during their time. Economists had very good arguments on both sides. I can provide quotes, sources, books to read, etc. that will show this. The problem is history courses today will conveniently "leave out" the majority of one side's arguments.

It is understandable if you don't want to debate, as I have done so on this topic multiple times now on other forums and it can get old. If so, then just take this as a friendly response to your opinion in this thread that Jefferson is overrated and FDR was better by a long shot.

 

[Burroughs]

.

He framed gold for the ineptitude of Central Bankers, seized the wealth of America's hard working citizens, and then turned around and handed it right back to the bankers after they fvked up in giving the US it's first "Great Depression".

Sounds like what happened in 2008....history repeats.

The only thing I would question is the 'ineptitude' of central bankers...I believe the 'ineptitute' is in fact PURPOSEFUL, in that boom and bust 'cycles' are how the central banks rob citizens of their labor

Heres how.

During false booms (internet 1.0, 2.0 etc) people over spend using fiat monies created from thin air (this is how Venture Captialists get their initial money), its during the busts (now!) that the banks rake in the spoils, real land, real property...this is being played out today on a global scale.

This is the true genius/evil of fiat banking..you can lure the citizenry to contribute their sweat and blood into a money system literally fabricated out of nothing.

 

[DanelMadr]

You are forgetting that in times of Jefferson population was low and it comprised mostly from people who left feudal non-secular Europe. They were the tip of enlightenment spear. They were the doers and risk takers.
No wonder they preferred Plato and Newton to pop stars.

Situation changed. US population lives in comfortable prosperity and stupidity is not punished quite the opposite.

And yes everyone can vote. And of course politicians will make sure they please the most of people.
As Milton Friedman said...'Keynesian economics - strong government monetary policy - inflating powers - debt making - is a god send gift to politicians who were always between two pressures - to lower unemployment and to lower taxes. Now they can do both....inflation being a hidden tax.'

Therefore as long as people prefer social safety net to liberty, responsibility and risk, you won't have change....unless it collapses on it's own. Look at Greece.


Poonani Maker...
if a student would get loan for IT, engineering degree, he would repay that in a few years.
You are right on gov regulating business too much but 'people' those people who will be always consumers, believe business is their enemy and they demand it's regulation.

I mentioned risk earlier. Have you noticed how everyone is obsessed with minimizing risks? Smoking ban, gun ban, playgrounds are no fun anymore, you HAVE to wear helmet, seat belts, airbags are mandatory, can't bring tooth pick to airplane. People are just too fearful these days. They wanna live for ever.

It all has to do with prosperity. People get lazy and cowardly. Nothing you can do about it. It will get even worse. Idiocracy spings into mind.

Europe is even worse as it still has that feudal smell. Gov is supposed to be like this strong good feudal who protects it's incompetent country folk.

Howg.