This one thing equals Frame

[Glassguy]

No frame is not that complicated. But when a man (James) feels the need to insist that something simple (NOT easy, but simple) is a contorted level 3 calculus equation?

That tells me such a man cannot grasp, much less master the simple concept.

Occam's Razor in action. Look it up.

Agreed. Cheeky is a poster who doesn't get it. In fact, he not only doesnt get it, but thinks this is some calculus equation when its quite simple.

Ill let my track record speak for itself. If Cheeky wants to start his own thread on his own ideas, awesome.
But at this point he is hijacking a thread.

 

[Cheeky_James]

No frame is not that complicated. But when a man (James) feels the need to insist that something simple (NOT easy, but simple) is a contorted level 3 calculus equation?

That tells me such a man cannot grasp, much less master the simple concept.

Occam's Razor in action. Look it up.

so you’re telling me being a leader (of men and women) is simple?
And you BE , being a woman … how much do you know first hand about being a man and living in a man’s world , as a man? And of being a leader as a man? Oh that’s right .. zero!

the mind boggles.
I was suspect the supposed female posters on here were dudes. But no, for sure you are female.

Just google ‘what does Frame mean in pickup and seduction’ and read the AI summary. It ain’t simple.

 

[Glassguy]

so you’re telling me being a leader (of men and women) is simple?
And you BE , being a woman … how much do you know first hand about being a man and living in a man’s world , as a man?

the mind boggles.
I was suspect the female posters on here were dudes. But no, for sure you are female,

I would strongly suggest that you start your own thread, with your own ideas, instead of coming on one to hijack it and aggressively criticize everything you dont agree with.
Its a free forum. Id love to see your thread with all of your own ideas on whatever you feel needs addressed on whatever subjects that benefit this forum. At this point youre acting like a 5 yr old. Throwing a fit and not adding anything of value.
Youve been a member on here for a few months and I'm glad to see you have it all figured out.
Calling people's ideas "garbage" and constantly arguing with someone because you disagree tells me that you have very little maturity and you might want to re-read both my post and the rules. I think you'll benefit from both if youre able to stick around. Personally, I think youre a net negative to this forum.
I welcome any and all ideas to this forum so long as the person is respectful and within the rules.
You however are not.

 

[Cheeky_James]

I would strongly suggest that you start your own thread, with your own ideas, instead of coming on one to hijack it and aggressively criticize everything you dont agree with.
Its a free forum. Id love to see your thread with all of your own ideas on whatever you feel needs addressed on whatever subjects that benefit this forum. At this point youre acting like a 5 yr old. Throwing a fit and not adding anything of value.
Youve been a member on here for a few months and I'm glad to see you have it all figured out.
Calling people's ideas "garbage" and constantly arguing with someone because you disagree tells me that you have very little maturity and you might want to re-read both my post and the rules. I think you'll benefit from both if youre able to stick around. Personally, I think youre a net negative to this forum.
I welcome any and all ideas to this forum so long as the person is respectful and within the rules.
You however are not.

I’m not hijacking /attacking bro.
I’m correcting.
The tile of the thread is “This ONE thing equals Frame”.
I’m merely disagreeing with that equation.
there is definitely not ONE thing to ‘Frame’.
I even posted the google AI summary definition . It’s all there. What more do you want for a correction?
And making simple (incorrect) equations of complicated subjects and skills does not help anyone ?

that’s almost Real Social Dynamics-level of misinformation.

For what you’re talking about in the OP you mean a ‘stable guy frame’. That’s about it.

This one thing is fundamental to maintain respect in a relationship - controlling your emotions.
That’d be more correct and useful.

your equation especially does not apply to pickup in bars and clubs.

As for length of time on the forum, there is no correlation between time on forum and real world success with women bro. Real life Don Juan’s don’t post on forums dude, they are too busy in the real world. Doing their thing and banging lots of chicks. Think about that. That’s something to definitely be aware of about pickup forums probably the best insider tip you’ll ever get here. you’re welcome. :tu:

 

[Vanderdonck]

It is simple. Not complicated. A lot of wisdom comes from unlearning all the noise and misinformation that accumulates over a lifetime.

 

[Cheeky_James]

It is simple. Not complicated. A lot of wisdom comes from unlearning all the noise and misinformation that accumulates over a lifetime.

hmmm.. yes that must be why there is so many detailed books and courses on the subject of Frames and Frame Control covering it in depth in the fields of Communication, Sociology, and Public Relations and why it’s so critical in Politics.

I’m sure now once we all learn to just control our emotions , we’ll all be leaders and high value guys, Simples!

btw GG this is the ‘wheel of emotions’ diagram below - please give us your tips on how you and all the great guys you have known manage to control them all . Hopefully there is just ‘one weird trick’ to that also.

 

[Clockwerk50]

GG I’ll try break it down a bit better as it relates to your OP

your statement
“Women want men that can control their emotions, are leaders in the relationship and they can feel safe knowing that the man they are with has a mature way of handling his emotions when things dont go their way.”
Yep. Generally true.

controlling emotions = stability, keeping respect
Leader = frame, frame control (winning battles) influence

being a leader is the hardest part , and requires great framing /frame control. winning the important arguments and maintaining his position as a high value man. Different set of skills. Much more complicated.
And the higher value the woman, the harder it gets.
That’s about a simple a ‘formula ‘ I could make it.

And extreme example of purely controlling emotions would be a Cuckolded man. He can keep calm all day long, all the way to watching his woman get fvcked by another man.

Right now, you’re reacting rather than persuading. If frame is about influence and narrative, this is an opportunity to show it by clearly communicating your position instead of attacking a simplified take. Emotional regulation is one way to hold a strong frame, but it isn’t the same as frame itself; OP was explicitly sharing a personal perspective, not a technical definition.

People who respond out of ego or defensiveness often undermine their own position, brooding or lashing out when things don’t go their way. Take this as a learning experience.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Right now, you’re reacting rather than persuading. If frame is about influence and narrative, this is an opportunity to show it by clearly communicating your position instead of attacking a simplified take. Emotional regulation is one way to hold a strong frame, but it isn’t the same as frame itself; OP was explicitly sharing a personal perspective, not a technical definition.

People who respond out of ego or defensiveness often undermine their own position, brooding or lashing out when things don’t go their way. Take this as a learning experience.

well thanks for agreeing with my position Clockwerk,
That emotional regulation is one way to hold a strong frame, but it isn’t the same as frame itself.
You’ve clarified my position for me cheers.

no ego here.
I rarely visit this forum tbh.

GGs post tries to formulise something that has many parts to it and has omitted quite a bit of those important parts from his formula.

What’s the correct term for that situation then? Wrong..Misinformation.. Watered down… Garbage(?) IDK.
And is ‘garbage’ an agressive /butthurt word.. for realsies(?)

I tried helping GG with the definition of ‘frame’ straight off google AI. That’s correct info.
Imo I did a good job. pretty happy with it.
I’ll jump off now, no bother.

 

[Bokanovsky]

From my perspective, I will make this easy. There is one thing that you can have, develop or figure out how to do in order to have a rock solid frame when it comes to dealing with women (as well as any relationship type).

Ability to maintain control over your emotions.

Thats it.
Not everything is going to go your way. Things happen in life and certainly when dating, getting to know someone, when there isnt enough of an investment on either end to "owe" things to one another. There are flakes. Disagreements. Shyte tests. You can go on and on and fill in the blanks.
Although you cant control a lot of what life throws at you, the ability to control your emotions is 100% within your control.
Look at how the majority of men act: they get butthurt. Throw tantrums. Block women when anything goes wrong.
This forum is full of people who have a very hard time not being able to control their emotions when something doesnt go in their favor. How do you think women look at this? How would you do with a woman who had little to no self control over her emotions (and I've very briefly dated women like this). Nobody wants to be with someone who acts like a tantrum throwing child.
We all get discouraged, upset, let down, etc. Its human nature. But the ones that are most successful are the ones that dont get upset. We control what we can control in a good way.
We have prison systems across this country full of people that made a terrible decision because they couldn't control their emotions. Posters who cant control their emotions and wonder why they struggle with women.
Women want men that can control their emotions, are leaders in the relationship and they can feel safe knowing that the man they are with has a mature way of handling his emotions when things dont go their way.
Charisma, charm, fun personality, intellect, wit, etc all are great attributes that attract women.
But if you cant control your emotions, women with any sense of high value are going to run as fast and as far away from you as they can.
If you want a New Year's resolution that will improve your mental state, work on this and you will see how much easier it is to attract women into your life.
Want to know why women throw shyte tests at you guys? They haven't seen stability yet that you can control your emotions. And they want to see if youre like so many other men that have tried to date them that act like grown toddlers when they dont get their way. They'd rather shyte test you early to find out so they dont waste their time dealing with a man child.

Food for thought.
Happy Hunting

While agree with most of what you're saying, ability to control your emotions does not mean you will win every time. It will also make you appear cold to some women. The type of man that most women find "romantic" is volatile and impulsive - someone who will take her on an emotional roller coaster ride - and definitely NOT the strong, silent type.

 

[Glassguy]

While agree with most of what you're saying, ability to control your emotions does not mean you will win every time. It will also make you appear cold to some women. The type of man that most women find "romantic" is volatile and impulsive - someone who will take her on an emotional roller coaster ride - and definitely NOT the strong, silent type.

Im dont disagree with everything you say.....and I never said to not act happy when youre happy, etc.
As a matter fact, I stand by telling a chick that how she acted is not going to work for you. But blowing up, not being able to separate emotions from making sound decisions is something totally different.
Even the best negotiators dont close every deal. Do they throw a fit, cuss, act like a child when things dont go their way? Of course not. They are smart enough to not sabotage future dealings. They just simply realize things aren't going to work out and move on.
Same happens in relationships.

Im not advising men to be boring, or be a vegetable. Which is why I said that charisma, wit and other positive personality characteristics help dramatically.
Im also going to go out on a limb and say, based on my own past experiences with hundreds of women, that if you're dealing with women that like volatile men, they are probably young, toxic, low value and self esteem or a combination of all of the above.
Read any of my posts on this forum. I think degrees of unpredictability is a very good thing.

Many men on here shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to women. They cant figure out how to get interest from high value women and if they do, they turn into spoiled children the second something doesnt go their way. What does the women do? She runs. She has lots of options because of her looks and overall value. She isnt going to mess around with a guy who acts like most guys when things don't go their way......like a spoiled kid throwing a fit.
I tend to look at the bigger picture in the dating world. Things might not work out with a chick. But she has a large social group if she is high value. What do you think happens when my emotions dont trigger turning into a tantrum thrower? I may date 2 or 3 other attractive/high value women in the same social group. Think that is going to happen if I don't act as thought i have self awareness to my actions?
So in the end, is "winning" only based on outcomes with chicks? I dont think so.
To me, winning is understanding that things didnt work out with a chick and that's ok. I'm still going to act with class, control my emotions and go find 3 or 4 other new women. And I won't be labeled as a psychopath idiot within women's social circles.
I'll call that a win.

 

[Clockwerk50]

well thanks for agreeing with my position Clockwerk,
That emotional regulation is one way to hold a strong frame, but it isn’t the same as frame itself.
You’ve clarified my position for me cheers.

no ego here.
I rarely visit this forum tbh.

GGs post tries to formulise something that has many parts to it and has omitted quite a bit of those important parts from his formula.

What’s the correct term for that situation then? Wrong..Misinformation.. Watered down… Garbage(?) IDK.
And is ‘garbage’ an agressive /butthurt word.. for realsies(?)

I tried helping GG with the definition of ‘frame’ straight off google AI. That’s correct info.
Imo I did a good job. pretty happy with it.
I’ll jump off now, no bother.

I would have approached it differently myself, maybe answered in a way that wouldn’t come across as confrontational, like @taiyuu_otoko #14 post did by respectfully adding on or disagreeing with the post.

I’m sure you know so much about frame that many of us could learn a thing or two from you, even if it hasn’t crossed paths here before. As stated in the very first sentence of the OP, all of this is from his perspective. Even if some of it is technically incorrect, it’s up to him whether he wants to take feedback or just leave it as his view.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Im dont disagree with everything you say.....and I never said to not act happy when youre happy, etc.
As a matter fact, I stand by telling a chick that how she acted is not going to work for you. But blowing up, not being able to separate emotions from making sound decisions is something totally different.
Even the best negotiators dont close every deal. Do they throw a fit, cuss, act like a child when things dont go their way? Of course not. They are smart enough to not sabotage future dealings. They just simply realize things aren't going to work out and move on.
Same happens in relationships.

Im not advising men to be boring, or be a vegetable. Which is why I said that charisma, wit and other positive personality characteristics help dramatically.
Im also going to go out on a limb and say, based on my own past experiences with hundreds of women, that if you're dealing with women that like volatile men, they are probably young, toxic, low value and self esteem or a combination of all of the above.
Read any of my posts on this forum. I think degrees of unpredictability is a very good thing.

Many men on here shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to women. They cant figure out how to get interest from high value women and if they do, they turn into spoiled children the second something doesnt go their way. What does the women do? She runs. She has lots of options because of her looks and overall value. She isnt going to mess around with a guy who acts like most guys when things don't go their way......like a spoiled kid throwing a fit.
I tend to look at the bigger picture in the dating world. Things might not work out with a chick. But she has a large social group if she is high value. What do you think happens when my emotions dont trigger turning into a tantrum thrower? I may date 2 or 3 other attractive/high value women in the same social group. Think that is going to happen if I don't act as thought i have self awareness to my actions?
So in the end, is "winning" only based on outcomes with chicks? I dont think so.
To me, winning is understanding that things didnt work out with a chick and that's ok. I'm still going to act with class, control my emotions and go find 3 or 4 other new women. And I won't be labeled as a psychopath idiot within women's social circles.
I'll call that a win.

Again, I'm not really disagreeing with you. My point was more about negative emotional experiences which can be extremely addictive to women (this is why "toxic" men are often surrounded by very attractive women). It's called an emotional roller coaster for a reason. The highs must be counterbalanced by the lows. As paradoxical as it may sound, a happy-go-lucky kind of guy who radiates positivity is not what the average woman craves. Without the lows, they get bored of the highs very quickly.

 

[Gamisch]

I’m not hijacking /attacking bro.
I’m correcting.
The tile of the thread is “This ONE thing equals Frame”.
I’m merely disagreeing with that equation.
there is definitely not ONE thing to ‘Frame’.
I even posted the google AI summary definition . It’s all there. What more do you want for a correction?
And making simple (incorrect) equations of complicated subjects and skills does not help anyone ?

that’s almost Real Social Dynamics-level of misinformation.

For what you’re talking about in the OP you mean a ‘stable guy frame’. That’s about it.

This one thing is fundamental to maintain respect in a relationship - controlling your emotions.
That’d be more correct and useful.

your equation especially does not apply to pickup in bars and clubs.

As for length of time on the forum, there is no correlation between time on forum and real world success with women bro. Real life Don Juan’s don’t post on forums dude, they are too busy in the real world. Doing their thing and banging lots of chicks. Think about that. That’s something to definitely be aware of about pickup forums probably the best insider tip you’ll ever get here. you’re welcome. :tu:

While I agree that it ain't simple I strongly disagree with the notion that men who get women don't post in forums

First part first: it's simple, but oftentimes simplicity is the hardest thing to execute. That goes for art, bizz, fighting cooking and ofcourse women and everything surrounding women such as holding frame. Imo women are oftentimes extremely black / white good/ bad / ect when it comes to the men they pick. You can dry her up instantly by indeed losing frame and sometimes you will never recover from it( in HER eyes). This is why cohabitation is a dangerous path tor most men , as it exposes your weaknesses rather quickly. Having said that: the more leverage you have, the more room you'll get to lose frame.

The second part about posting online. Even " mythical Chad" sometimes wanna chill by himself..can't feck 24/7. Forums are simply integrated into modern life and I don't believe that there are men who are fecking all day everyday even if they could..the magic stick gotta rest and recover too. Cmon now

 

[Cheeky_James]

I would have approached it differently myself, maybe answered in a way that wouldn’t come across as confrontational, like @taiyuu_otoko #14 post did by respectfully adding on or disagreeing with the post.

I’m sure you know so much about frame that many of us could learn a thing or two from you, even if it hasn’t crossed paths here before. As stated in the very first sentence of the OP, all of this is from his perspective. Even if some of it is technically incorrect, it’s up to him whether he wants to take feedback or just leave it as his view.

Fair enough. Points taken.

Frame is a pretty big subject.

In action its the verbal skills of handling many tests in a row, winning arguments, influencing behaviour of others and getting and maintaining dominance or leadership. It’s a core skill of Dominant men/ Leaders.

With regards picking up women in bars and clubs etc for example… sometimes hard negging, being “rude” and borderline ‘bullying’ works wonders tbh. Leading is not always influencing others in nice and pretty ways.

Dealing with other AMOGs requires solid frame control also.

this is all well known though I suspect, there’s heaps of PuA lit on Frame.

 

[Cheeky_James]

While I agree that it ain't simple I strongly disagree with the notion that men who get women don't post in forums

First part first: it's simple, but oftentimes simplicity is the hardest thing to execute. That goes for art, bizz, fighting cooking and ofcourse women and everything surrounding women such as holding frame. Imo women are oftentimes extremely black / white good/ bad / ect when it comes to the men they pick. You can dry her up instantly by indeed losing frame and sometimes you will never recover from it( in HER eyes). This is why cohabitation is a dangerous path tor most men , as it exposes your weaknesses rather quickly. Having said that: the more leverage you have, the more room you'll get to lose frame.

The second part about posting online. Even " mythical Chad" sometimes wanna chill by himself..can't feck 24/7. Forums are simply integrated into modern life and I don't believe that there are men who are fecking all day everyday even if they could..the magic stick gotta rest and recover too. Cmon now

hmmm.. yeah I don’t believe Chad guys post on forums dude. Doesn’t happen.
Before the tent Chad became popular we used to call them Alphas/Naturals. They don’t post on forums because they don’t have to.

 

[Vanderdonck]

Again, I'm not really disagreeing with you. My point was more about negative emotional experiences which can be extremely addictive to women (this is why "toxic" men are often surrounded by very attractive women). It's called an emotional roller coaster for a reason. The highs must be counterbalanced by the lows. As paradoxical as it may sound, a happy-go-lucky kind of guy who radiates positivity is not what the average woman craves. Without the lows, they get bored of the highs very quickly.

This is true, but I personally wouldn't recommend "adopting" these traits as a matter of practice. (Some guys are just naturally toxic and that's a separate thing.)

Better to be naturally passionate but in a way that elicits positive emotions. If a man has that plus solid frame (including creating distance when necessary), the push/pull happens naturally. The passion should involve a personal mission and not her exclusively for this to happen.

But you make a great point and a lot of "PUAs" trade on these more negative tactics, only problem is your average nice guy comes off as a d!ck when he tries to deploy them.

 

[Vanderdonck]

hmmm.. yes that must be why there is so many detailed books and courses on the subject of Frames and Frame Control covering it in depth in the fields of Communication, Sociology, and Public Relations and why it’s so critical in Politics.

I’m sure now once we all learn to just control our emotions , we’ll all be leaders and high value guys, Simples!

btw GG this is the ‘wheel of emotions’ diagram below - please give us your tips on how you and all the great guys you have known manage to control them all . Hopefully there is just ‘one weird trick’ to that also.

Oh, lots of books and courses out there you can pay for if you want, that is true. A lot of ad-driven podcasts as well.

People love to be reminded of the simplest life lessons in long, complex sounding ways. Not discrediting the experts but so much of what's sold is what we known innately as children and unlearn through societal programming and noise. It's still rooted inside of us. Think Earl Nightingale's "The Strangest Secret" or Mel Robbins' "Let Them" or Tolle's "The Power Of Now." All very basic concepts. So is frame, which doesn't require anyone to be a leader or HV or work in any one field.

As for the wheel, you don't "control" your emotions. You control your outward behavior, how your conscience reacts to them. Doesn't matter how many exist, you can use the same method for any one. It can be as simple as taking a deep breath and counting to five. Some people who lack emotional control may need some coaching on this.

 

[Cheeky_James]

@GG, @BE, @Vanderdonk and others;

I just googled the meaning of Frame (again).

AI Summary is below (again).

Fyi reading over the below has made me realise wow yeah you’re all so right. It’s so simple!
And all of this Frame stuff definitely doesn’t sound like being Higher Value or Leading.. at all.. D’oh!
guess I just misunderstood. Must have been those references to ‘wars, battles, controlling, winning’ ithrew me off. Sheesh. I feel a bit silly now.

Q: what does Frame mean in pickup and seduction?

A: In pickup and seduction, "frame" refers to
your perspective or the underlying meaning you assign to an interaction. It is the social and psychological "reality" you establish, which influences how others perceive you and the situation.
The person with the strongest, most consistent frame controls the direction and outcome of the interaction.

Key Concepts

• Your Frame as Your Reality: Your internal beliefs about yourself and the world are projected outward through your actions, body language, and words. For example, if you believe you are a high-value person, your behavior will reflect that confidence, and people are more likely to treat you accordingly.
• Frame Control: This is the skill of maintaining your own frame and subtly guiding the other person into accepting your perception of the situation. It involves steering the conversation and interaction to avoid being pulled into the other person's less desirable frame (e.g., being "friend-zoned").
• Frame Battles: When two people have conflicting frames (e.g., one person wants a date, the other only sees a friend), a subtle "frame war" occurs. The person who remains most steadfast and compelling in their view typically "wins" the interaction.
• The "Meta-Frame": A core concept is the "prizability" or "you are the prize" meta-frame. This means operating from a place of non-neediness and abundance, where the other person is encouraged to qualify themselves to you, rather than you trying to impress them.
• Types of Frames: Frames can be social (establishing roles and social standing) or sexual (setting a tone where sex is a natural possibility).
• Maintaining Congruence: For a frame to be strong, your internal belief must match your external expression. Incongruence (saying you're confident while exhibiting nervous body language) weakens your frame and makes it easy for others to dismiss it.
• END OF SUMMARY

 

[Divorced w 3]

hmmm.. yeah I don’t believe Chad guys post on forums dude. Doesn’t happen.
Before the tent Chad became popular we used to call them Alphas/Naturals. They don’t post on forums because they don’t have to.

That makes zero sense. It’s like saying LeBron didn’t practice with a coach

 

[Cheeky_James]

That makes zero sense. It’s like saying LeBron didn’t practice with a coach

I’d imagine most naturals had some role model(s) and advice. But that’s when they were young dude and IRL. Probably their fathers, older brothers, friends , whoever
But none of them had much to “learn”
Like in those 3 movies I posted elsewhere, for naturals it’s a pretty straightforward and easy process. I’d speculate most lose their V plates pretty young . And just learn IRL through lots of experience. As they get lots of interest from females.

for me when young, it was simple. Some girl would pass on the message “psst.. my friend likes you. Go talk to her”. I go to the friend, grab her hand and off we walked for our little date, sit on a park bench and make out . It was all set up by the girls. And then on and on as I got older. Yeah at some early point I asked a male friend ‘ how do I do it?’ And he told me. That’s about it.We all shared after how far we got with the girls.

At some other point the guys started bragging they got laid and teasing me I hadn’t. So it was time to move it towards getting laid and after a few attempts of more escalation I got laid.

girls will tip off a guy re his options that way re her friends or other girls who are ‘crushing’ on him.
That whole tip off process doesn’t really change as they get older. Especially for Chads.
Maybe it changes later with more competition don’t know. Probably not.
No Chad goes to forums for tips bro. Don’t need to.