This is a rough sketch of what I think about dating

[blueline]

Somebody asked the question "how do I get with quality girls?" on another forum and the following posts were my responses. I think this is basically the only way it works. Some of you guys might be able to save yourselves a lot of frustration if you read this. Please don't let it stop you from approaching hot girls if you're ugly. My premise is that the main factor that determines whether or not you get laid is her self-esteem, specifically her perceived physical attractiveness. Admittedly, I am not a cassanova. I'm just an average guy that some girls want to ****. I have to spin the wheel a ton to get action. A few of these girls are completely beautiful, too. 8-9's in anybody's book (10's exist only in Hollywood). If you don't agree with me on these points, please tell me.

Part 1:

Hang out with guys that actually get laid (not lair faggots) and do as they do. Be friendly/sociable, realize that non-verbal communication is the channel that all the signaling for sex goes down in, and talk to a lot of girls. The talking is just a smoke screen for what's really being analyzed by their brains. Women know whether or not they want you to seduce them within 20 seconds of talking to you. Probably before you even open your mouth.

Most importantly, get a new wardrobe with a unique style and work out for ****s sake.

Part 2:

Basically, ****ing girls is a very simple exercise in probability. The relationships part is what you should be a bit educated on. Of course you won't truly understand it until you're in one, but for your own sake, you should be really ****ing careful about who your first partner is. You're gonna be spending a lot of time with this girl and become emotionally attached to someone for the first time in your life. You don't want this girl to be a psychotic slut. There's a real price to pay for those relationships.

Never ask a girl to be your girlfriend after you've ****ed her a dozen times. Wait for her to ask, and if you really like her by the time she asks you, tell her that you just want to keep things as they are. Let her know you aren't interested in banging other girls at the moment and that you enjoy spending time with her. Never make her your gf until she's proven herself to be an enjoyable person to spend time with outside of sex. What more does she have to anticipate after she's got her official title? **** other girls if you're sexy enough to pull that off. If you can't, you're gonna need a lot of discipline not to want a relationship with this girl you're ****ing.

Basically, all I'm saying is that you should not get into relationship with the first cute girl that gives you consistent sex and wants to hang out with you. Find out why she's attracted to you. If she likes your image, she probably doesn't like you and will become unattracted to you when your image begins to become incongruent with who you really are (this always happens, you can't always be your best self). Those girls are only good for ****ing. If she thinks you're actually good looking and actually likes conversing with you, then good for you. Figure out who she's dated before. If these guys are goony faggots, this girl has no standards and is probably a slut. It's pretty intuitive.

I really like dating the girls that are mostly attracted to me for my looks and personality, nothing more. If they like me mainly because I'm over 21 and can buy them booze, have an apartment, and a career, then the relationship will not progress beyond giving them a good ****ing. Read up on things like Borderline Personality Disorder, Bipolar, and ADHD. Girls that identify with those diagnoses are (nobody ever admits to having BPD, so you need to learn to recognize these things) to be kept at bay and just ****ed. Chumps/virgins such as yourself are prime targets for borderline personality disorder girls.

All I'm saying is that you need to pick your partner carefully. Novices/virgins will just take whatever cute girl comes along and want to date her exclusively just because they're ****ing her. I'm saying this because I've been there. Pretend relationships are a pain in the ass and you might as well just play the field instead of get emotionally invested.

Maybe you're not a virgin. In this case, unless you improve the product (you), you're going to be ****ing a lot of new sluts with emotional disorders and massive amounts of baggage. It's possible to **** hot sluts with emotional disorders if you're not obviously fat and are really good at acting. These girls will **** anybody and when the stereotypical PUA faggot is actually banging a hot chick, it's almost guaranteed that she is a slut with a ton of emotional baggage and no standards. Seeing the dudes that my ex girlfriend is trying to **** (or has) after I broke up with her is hilarious. The current guy looks like ****ing screech and is a 25 y/o undergraduate student that has been in college for yeaaars.

Basically, love can be a form of violence.


The PUA garbage at some bizarre level the guru's don't understand or even want to understand will yield you sluts with low self-esteem. The thing is, ANYTHING works on them. Simply walking up to them and saying hi in a non-awkward manner will get you laid with them. You don't seduce them (seduction doesn't even occur until AFTER you've ****ed her). ****ing these girls depends almost entirely on social skills, and they aren't high level social skills we're talking about here, all you need to do is not be an autistic virgin. If you keep their self-esteem low, then you've successfully seduced the slut, but you already ****ed her by this point and she's not worthy of monogamy, so you might as well let her go.

uggghh it's very complicated

Part 3:


If you are ****able (lots of PUA guys aren't!!), I suggest you try the essence of the PUA method. I believe this essence is exactly what people are referring to when they say that there is an exceptionally small amount of PU advice that is actually useful. This advice includes partying your ass off, getting drunk, approaching tons of girls, making tons of edgy party friends, doing drugs (raves and festivals are great places to get laid!), smoking cigarettes (if they smoke, they poke), being aggressive with women, going straight to sex (you should do this part anyways, lol), and ****ing in back alleys just to get this toxic garbage out of your system. Basically, you're living like trash and having sex with trash. If you already had a successful career, were merely ****able, and not autistic, you would not need to do this. Even a stay-at-home manchild can **** hot chicks in his mom's basement this way. It's truly pathetic, but I guess it's appealing if you're a virgin.

Your quality of life will decrease as a result of all the d&a and every now and then you will land a hot chick with super low self-esteem that isn't worthy of a relationship. If she isn't completely deranged, she'll still want a relationship after you have sex with her several times. I'm not gonna lie, you do end up learning a lot about women if you do this because it ends up taking over your life, but the prereq is that you MUST be at least ****able. What you learn is that getting laid is mostly just showing up and everything else is probability and completely out of your control.



I have a lot to say, heh.

Part 4:

Those hot girls with healthy self-esteem that are actually not low-level player (all PUA faggots that are ****able) fodder are going to not have a high probability value of sex attached to them through the PUA route. These are the girls (they're typically over 23 yrs old) that want a man with actual talents, someone who is secure with themselves, can definitely give them orgasms, is good looking, obviously sociable (this shouldn't even be listed, it's the prereq to getting laid by any girl that isn't a whale), very masculine (you can't fake this ****), and most importantly, has a ****ing life.

Of course, there is a point where you're so good looking that any woman will let you have them and none of the aforementioned **** matters. They'll **** you no-strings attached, too. This guy, if he is manipulative enough, can make lots of girls go bat****. If you are very good looking and have narcissistic personality disorder, you ARE the guy that gurus merely pretend to be. Almost nobody on this forum is that good looking and mentally insane, guaranteed. If you can befriend one of these rare people, you will realize the true nature of love. This guy's girlfriends experience love in almost the same way men do. Never bring your girlfriend around him.

(this one's in bold specifically for you, SS)

 

[blueline]

Part 5:

I mean, really the **** you learn from PU theory is BARE MINIMUM social skills that only autistic or socially anxious (often virginal) people have not yet acquired. These skills include reading non-verbals like eye contact and vocal tonality. With this socially anxiousness/autism often, but not always, comes physical unattractiveness. Look at this mother****er, he's socially retarded and successful yet he has a girlfriend (probably a super hot one):

(look up any video of clay marzo on youtube)


There is no way to talk to hot girls. You just keep talking, touching them, and not put them a pedestal. I've ****ed a couple hot ones by talking about BORING **** like my computational psycholinguistics research. If they have low enough self-esteem to find someone who looked at dating advice on the internet attractive, then it doesn't matter what you say. In fact, I suspect this is how it is with all girls. If you're a **** load better looking than their own perceived attractiveness, you just need to get in a private location with them after talking for a little while and they will ****.

The same social skills you used to **** that fat chick will also work to **** that hot chick provided that she is physically attracted to you.



All of this **** is fascinating to me and I'm a bored grad student on winter break. Sorry for writing so much.

Part 6:

I dated a girl with a **** personality that had plenty of goals and was brilliant (easily has an IQ >140). She could talk about complex intellectual topics on and on. She barely spent any of her free time partying. She only used parties to meet her future boyfriends, which is like once every 4-6 mos for her.

With no prior knowledge, almost every autistic PUA virgin (I'm not talking about you, specifically) would probably think she was quite the catch given her model looks, intelligence, superficial charm (hard to notice that one if you're socially retarded), and interest in talking about sex with strangers (awesome i get to SNL this ***** and then write an LR). However, she had crazy, glassy eyes, a weird fluctuating vocal tonality, and was hypersexual (great if you just wanna **** a girl, bad if you want a relationship). Red flags everywhere, but I just didn't have the social awareness to realize what was up. I was just thinking "**** yeah, my PUA techniques are working on a girl that looks like natalie portman."

What if you're too ugly to **** girls that look like models unless they're emotionally disturbed? Your **** is going to crave that. I've got a 7 that wants a relationship with me right now (perfect personality for me, but she's just not good looking enough) and I can't do it because I want to keep spinning the wheel to bang these hot, disturbed girls.

Besides working out, having a life, and having good style there is no quick fix social skills technique to ****ing quality women. There are definitely social skills to be learned if you're a virgin or very, very inexperienced (never had a relationship, etc), but they're so ****ing simple.

I got like 30 numbers last semester and worked a TON of women. NONE of the girls I actually liked (around 10 of them) for more than ****ing wanted anything to do with me. The girls that actually wanted to ****, it was a joke how easy it was to get with them. A few just invited me to their place. Why? Girls want to ****, too. This isn't difficult.

I've got another girl inviting me over to play guitar with her right now. I know she actually just wants to ****. There was nothing fancy or even unique about the social skills utilized to **** her. I made friends with her (totally could've banged her the first night at a party because she thinks I'm cute) talking about philosophy with her. One time I just got really wasted, wanted to ****, just pushed her on a couch and started making out with her, and she invited me back to her house across the street to basically **** her. She's pretty cute, too. Unfortunately, she has bipolar disorder, told me she has been off meds since september, and I've already ****ed her. She is not good for me. A PUA virgin would date her (smart, cute chick that knows how to play guitar well and likes nerdy things! awesome!).

I've ****ed a few normal girls, too. There is nothing special about this.

According to PUA methods (aka learn ur social skillz, bro), I've gamed tons of girls almost perfectly and they all rejected me for dates. I made them laugh, I qualified them, I negged them, I was confident, I touched them, I gave them deep eye contact, sexualized the conversation (they will steer out of this if they don't want to ****), got approached by girls around them, had female friends hotter than them say hi to me, etc. An interesting observation I made is that when they don't want to ****, they will not reciprocate your direct eye contact. I would describe one of these attempted pickups as almost a work of art, I did all of the above with one of these girls. You know why these things went nowhere? It was because I'm not good looking enough for them according to their own perceived attractiveness. If you're better than their bf, they will leave him for you, it's no excuse.

Are these PUA high level social skills necessary? **** no. I've banged more interested girls by being friends, by talking about BORING intellectual nonsense, by insulting myself, etc.

The way I "learned" how to get a girl to have sex with me was to get this chubby chick I already knew had a crush on me in her bedroom. The sex was horrible, but the same **** that works to get the less attractive girls in the bedroom also works on the hot ones. It's very simple.

Go **** those girls that check you out. Sorry they aren't as good looking or cool as you want them to be. Do you know what it looks like when a girl is checking you out? These are basically the only girls you can **** as a man. Any girl that doesn't check you out and ****s you has ulterior motives. **** her. I mean it in both senses.

Part 7:

I really think what I'm describing is the intuitive theory of attraction most normal men operate by. It's almost exactly what I thought pre-PUA. The only thing I didn't realize before PUA is that the woman's self-esteem is probably the most important factor that decides whether or not you two are going to ****.

Post-PUA, I realized that actual seduction (I mean, falling in love with someone, giving your lover the keys to a significant portion of your happiness) is done by giving her these unexpected delights throughout your time with her. Making her feel more comfortable to be a woman around you than any other man she knows can. This is when your girlfriend will be completely faithful with you. There's also a fair amount of emotional manipulation in here, too. Most days, she will wake up thinking of you and go to sleep thinking of you. Whether or not that leads to a successful, stable LTR, I have no idea. Probably not.

All of the above depends on your physical appearance relative to hers and her self-esteem. If she is better than you in physical appearance, yeah ****ing right you're accomplishing most of that. Even if she has low self-esteem, you're probably not accomplishing what I described above.

Workout and be good looking or you will end up marrying a less than attractive woman that you want to cheat on or an emotionally disordered one that drives you to insanity.

 

[zekko]

Never ask a girl to be your girlfriend after you've ****ed her a dozen times. Wait for her to ask, and if you really like her by the time she asks you, tell her that you just want to keep things as they are

IF you've qualified the girl well, and IF you actually want to be exclusive with her, then I would argue that it is a waste of time to deny her relationship request just to be a challenge. To me, that is just playing games.

If she's going to get bored with you once you return her interest, then she's going to get bored with you. Sooner or later. You have to go through that process, and if she's going to get bored with you it's best to find out so you can get on to the next thing.

I mean, really the **** you learn from PU theory is BARE MINIMUM social skills that only autistic or socially anxious (often virginal) people have not yet acquired. These skills include reading non-verbals like eye contact and vocal tonality

That is so true. When I first came here, I couldn't understand why everybody acted like all this stuff is so ground breaking, so amazing. The whole bit about the Matrix and taking the red pill. It's ridiculous. Most people figure out most of this stuff in high school.

Regarding vocal tonality, I've never agreed with the idea that you should talk louder than everybody else (to show you're the alpha guy, I guess). You should talk strongly and self assuredly, and project yourself, sure. But actually talk louder than everybody else? Sounds annoying and asinine to me.

Post-PUA, I realized that actual seduction (I mean, falling in love with someone, giving your lover the keys to a significant portion of your happiness) is done by giving her these unexpected delights throughout your time with her. Making her feel more comfortable to be a woman around you than any other man she knows can

Yet, you almost never hear about anything like this on this forum. Most tips are about negging her, or showing her you're not very interested in her, or keeping a distance from her, or shielding yourself in mystery, or making yourself a challenge, or making her work for you, or giving her less than she gives you, etc.

There is even a fairly large segment here that maintain that you have to treat a girl badly for her to like you. There's very little about comfort or about giving her "delights".

 

[blueline]

Love can be used as a form of violence, like this forum supports, but really what is the point of that? Sometimes you just wanna be happy with some girl. The biggest player I know is only described as an ******* when he lets the girl go. Otherwise, he is the craziest, most fun, and gentle guy his girlfriends have ever met. It's true, though, he typically gives quite a bit less than his girlfriends give him. He never treats his girlfriends badly, though. He'll make them dinner, cry with them, write songs for them, spend all day hanging out with them, buy them drugs, talk about gay **** like astrology with them, write them poetry, and do his damnedest to cheer them up when they're upset. Why does he get away with all this "AFC" behavior? He's jacked, confident, and looks like Jason Schwartzman. But really, you don't need to look like a famous actor to make a girl happy. It sure as **** helps, though. The unexpectedness is higher (wow, a guy so good looking treating me well) and the delights are more enjoyable (his hand picked flowers>your hand picked flowers).

When I say vocal tonality, I don't mean your vocal tonality. I mean hers. She will start to talk to you in a different tone if she wants you.

 

[Tainted24]

I joined this forum because of this post. I pretty much agree completely with what blueline said.

However,

According to PUA methods (aka learn ur social skillz, bro), I've gamed tons of girls almost perfectly and they all rejected me for dates. I made them laugh, I qualified them, I negged them, I was confident, I touched them, I gave them deep eye contact, sexualized the conversation (they will steer out of this if they don't want to ****), got approached by girls around them, had female friends hotter than them say hi to me, etc. An interesting observation I made is that when they don't want to ****, they will not reciprocate your direct eye contact. I would describe one of these attempted pickups as almost a work of art, I did all of the above with one of these girls. You know why these things went nowhere? It was because I'm not good looking enough for them according to their own perceived attractiveness. If you're better than their bf, they will leave him for you, it's no excuse.

Not sure if you're insecure about your looks, but the thing is—guys don't really need that genetic code to look at least passable. But who knows... I consider myself a good looking guy, and have been told that numerous times. Eat a healthy diet (shows up in your skin), work out, develop a fashion that complements your personality and body.

They've done several psychological studies showing that people generally end up with similarly-attractive mates.

Post-PUA, I realized that actual seduction (I mean, falling in love with someone, giving your lover the keys to a significant portion of your happiness) is done by giving her these unexpected delights throughout your time with her. Making her feel more comfortable to be a woman around you than any other man she knows can. This is when your girlfriend will be completely faithful with you. There's also a fair amount of emotional manipulation in here, too. Most days, she will wake up thinking of you and go to sleep thinking of you. Whether or not that leads to a successful, stable LTR, I have no idea. Probably not.

This is the part I'm clueless about. I've been in stable LTR's before, but that was before I read up on PUA. Even looking back, I have no idea how I fell into them. I'm thinking about having a "High Fidelity" moment and just going back to ask my ex'es why they fell for me, but I'm not sure if they could explain it either.

Personally, I've always had a really strong, almost obsessive drive to push myself forward. Reading all the PUA material just reinforces that. The inner side of PUA pretty much pushes you to be the perfect person—smart, funny, confident. These techniques and terms are just codifying what smart, funny, and confident people do naturally. Maybe it's all this drive, success, intellect, etc., that pushes you onto a "he's bf material" pedestal.

Making her feel more comfortable to be a woman around you than any other man she knows can.

This sounds dangerously close to friend-zone, but I've had decent luck with this. I don't think girls will let down their walls around total alpha-male jocks. Displaying the kinder, slightly insecure side of your personality out builds rapport with women (expose yourself, they expose themselves).

Most PUA material only talk about attraction and intimacy though. It's all front-level stuff that is necessary. Building on that into real, true love is still a mystery. It's not as simple as attraction + intimacy = LTR. Attraction + Intimacy will get you laid, with non-LTR-type chicks.